Should believers celebrate Christmas? Hanukkah? Both? Neither? And why? Dr. Brown will take your calls for this annual Christmas debate. Is this a God-glorifying holiday or a pagan celebration? Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As we come to the end of our annual Christmas debate, whatever you do, do it with all of your heart to God, honoring Jesus above all.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Whatever the world does or doesn’t do, it is a glorious truth to know that Jesus came to the world.
Other Resources:
A person can be ‘twice born’ in ‘this tiny footstool’ and yet still be a member of the promised buildup of the great Harlot ‘church’ OF WHICH NONE are remained ‘born from above’, nor were ever ‘born FROM ABOVE’ (even as in Hebrews 6 it remains impossible to renew again unto repentance those who have ONCE ‘tasted’ of the ‘HEAVENLY GIFT’, that ‘BIRTH FROM ABOVE’ beyond ‘new birth’, beyond ‘twice born’, SEEING THEY HAVE FALLEN BACK AGAIN UNTO RE-CRUCIFYING their Lord, as the Harlot, putting themselves once again AND their Lord unto an ‘open shame’)
Bo, again you want to show us all your hypocrisy, which is plainly visible in post 42. Let’s take a look at the first verse you post in Post 42 and see what it says.
I Cor 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness: but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
In sincerity and truth, Paul is not commanding the Church at Corinth, that they must keep the Passover feast, as feasts needed to be kept under the law in order to be righteous or to be saved.
In sincerity and truth, I’m telling you that he is saying something quite different. If they want to meet together during Passover, they may, and when they do, his instruction here is how they are to do it, if they so desire to participate in the Passover.
He is not at all commanding them here that they must attend every Passover in order to fulfill the righteousness of the law, and thereby be saved. That’s not at all what he’s saying.
Bo, it’s you that are not understanding the plain
English of the gospel.
Nicholas’ recent posts reminded me that the apostle Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews, of Israel, an Israelite, and that all Christians everywhere are blood relatives of him, because of Jesus.
Jesus not only created Adam, but by the shed blood of Christ, we all come into one spiritual family.
Bo, in response to post 45, Any of God’s feast days may become contrary to the gospel, which is why Paul wrote I Cor 5:8.
If everyone at the feast claims to be a Christian and all claim that it must be done every year by everyone according to the letter of the law, or one will not be saved, they have made what God made as clean, unclean.
Nowhere does the scripture prohibit man from celebrating a holiday. Such a commandment is simply not there.
There was a Christmas truce during W.W. 1 that was initiated by the troops on Christmas eve. As I read about it, I found myself wishing that the refusal to fire on both sides would have given way to a quick ending of that war.
If it would have, imagine how history would have been written and who would have received the glory.
If Bo is right, then far from refusing to celebrate Christ’s incarnation, we should celebrate it regularly. Perhaps every day!
If I am worldly and disobedient for lighting an Advent candle or singing a fine English carol, then I am also out of God’s will because my son has not been circumcised.
We cannot make this a litmus test of faith or misapply MNatthew 7.
If we want to know what a Jesus revolution might be like, I suggest reading about the Christmas truce of 1914.
Here’s something I read about the Christmas truce:
Indeed, one British soldier, Murdock M. Wood, speaking in 1930, said “I then came to the conclusion that I have held very firmly ever since, that if we had been left to ourselves there never would have been another shot fired.
Adolf Hitler, then a Corporal of the 16th Bavarians, saw it differently. “Such a thing should not happen in wartime,” he is said to have remarked. “Have you no German sense of honor?”
So, my question is this: If we have been there in the trenches, overlooking No Man’s land, would we have celebrated Christmas, or would we have found ourselves in agreement with Adolf.?
Yes, WW 1 was about who is going to be top dog.
Nicholas,
John14:15 says “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” Jesus did what he had to do according to the prophets(God’s inspired word)He obeyed his father’s commandments, including the festivals. Now, Nicholas you need to search your heart to understand the REAL KOSHER JESUS. May you find his TRUTH in love.
Blessings,
Ron
Hi Ron,
Aren’t you overlooking the obvious? The celebration of Hanukkah is not one of the 7 Feast Days of Israel that the LORD commanded them to keep. It was a feast to commemorate the miracle of the oil when the Maccabees cleansed and rededicated the temple after Antiochus offered swines blood and the blood of the slain on the altar. Jesus chose that feast to announce, “I and the Father are one.” Whereas Antiochus Ephiphanes, whose name meant “God manifest,” was a type of antichrist, Jesus is declaring the truth through His sermon on His being the “Good Shepherd” and “God manifest in the flesh” and says, “I and the Father are one.” He is the true light that lights the world.
Was Jesus in violation of Torah because He took part in a celebration not ordained by Moses? And nowhere are the people commanded to light their own menorah in celebration of Hanukkah yet that’s what they do.
Is it coincidence that Hanukkah is celebrated on the 25th day of Kislev which falls Nov/Dec?
So they fixed the date of all things pertaining to Jesus’ birth and Hanukkah as Dec. 25th—I don’t see the big deal seeing as Hanukkah is nowhere an ordained feast to begin with.
Oh, and I should have mentioned that Antiochus erected a statue of Zeus in his own likeness in the temple as well. He saw himself as equal to Zeus, maybe his reincarnation or son—some such.
I don’t think it was coincidence that Jesus chose the feast of re-dedication to announce what He did. God is not as unyielding as you and some others make Him out to be. To worship in “spirit and in truth” doesn’t require set calendar days, but, is a way of life everyday.
Jesus (of Nazareth), the (real) Jesus, the (real kosher) Jesus, the (‘revolutionary’ real) Jesus, the (‘revolutionary’ real kosher) Jesus, the (Word made flesh ‘revolutionary’ real kosher) Jesus, and the ‘man from heaven’ SENT by His ‘Source’ sending also the Holy Spirit of the same Source and F-ther, & whatever else may make a ‘title’ to describing first born of Mary, & commentary, on the One, and only solely UNIQUE (begotten) Son of the Living G-d, ALL by births, overshadowing by the Holy Spirit of G-d, first in His coming forth (voluntarily) emptied from the very eternal side (womb) of His ONE AND ONLY ETERNAL SOURCE of all ‘spirits and lights’, as single ETERNAL Son of the one and only ETERNAL SOURCE (F-ther) in heaven, then from the EMPTYING womb ‘begetting’ IN COMPLETE ‘kenosis’ (according to Mathew’s opening ‘tax collector’ mathematical mind & puzzle, for to be opened up by the reader of his own very unique opening to his ‘gospel’ letter, bringing of 39 ‘begets’ to 42, before His birth and pregnancy of Mary, that of 3 women of Israel’s human female yet ‘virgins’ only after having arrived already in heaven, leading the way for this ‘EMPTIED’, ALREADY MADE MAN ‘lower than the angels also of heaven MAN, unto angels no longer in heaven, sent FROM’ heaven ‘already’, to come from heaven, also ‘leaping’ into the also daughter of Adam and Israeli daughter of the unique Tribe of Judah, & sent Holy Spirit of, by G-d also overshadowed by Him ‘womb’, of this one chosen Israeli ‘virgin’ mother, while yet still on ‘this earth’ of fallen ‘first Adam’, even AS very ‘LAST’ Adam finally from the Tribe of the prophesied ONE from the ‘line of Judah’) WE MUST CONSIDER THE FACT He did not return into heaven back into the ‘womb’ of His Source (F-ther) but rather remains ’emptied’ of His once enjoyed CO-EQUALITY with His ETERNAL SOURCE, AND BEING NOW FULLY “PERFECTED” into ONE ‘NEW MAN’ (never before existed in eternal ‘form’ of eternal spiritual BODY, of eternal flesh, eternal bones, eternal blood) NOW SEEATED ETERNALLY, the same yesterday from His own “perfection” from the days of His birth from the virgin of the Tribe of Judah as ‘last Adam’, TODAY, and FOREVERMORE seating on the NOW one and only ETERNAL mercy seating AT HIS F-THER’S ‘right hand’ (still emptied from His voluntarly leaving of the ONCE ENJOYED very ‘bosom’ OF HIS ETERNAL SOURCE, FOR TO BE ABLE TO STAND, ETERNALLY give out the very decrees of final judgments of HIS F-THER from His own heavenly chambers, just below His OWN SOURCE, HIS F-THER’S right hand given Him ‘chambers’ of RULE, which His Son has handed back unto Him so that G-d may be ‘all in all’, even also over ALL the ‘fallen’, whom the real Jesus could have once ruled over, as the completely, totally, fully, kenotic EMPTIED One, FROM that once enjoyed fully DIVINE, ETERNAL WOMB of the ‘living G-D’.
This He ‘spake about the Spirit’ (of Promise) not yet given unto ‘this’ Earth on the ‘feast of Sukkot’. The ‘type of anti-ANOINTING’ who was before, was void of ever speaking of ‘the SPIRIT’ (which is obviously ‘anti-CHRIST’, meaning ‘anti’ THE ‘ANOINTED’ One). G-d ‘manifested’ in the ‘flesh’ was always speaking of the ANOINTING of the sent Holy Spirit ‘of Conviction’ AND to also come ‘of Promise’ AFTERWARDS Jesus being ‘glorified’ AS ONE NEW MAN eternally at the right hand of the F-ther on the ETERNAL mercy seating with BRAND NEW eternal bones, eternal flesh, eternal blood ALSO ‘brand new’ as NEW creature man, never before existed in manifested ‘form’ NOW eternal IN THE HEAVENS (AND FIRST of many Brethren to follow, and to see Him THERE, as He really now IS eternally, also to have followed Him unto eternal ‘perfection’ from lives in fallen flesh ALSO, YET REMAINING ETERNALLY in ‘free-will’. John 10:30 ‘then came Hanukkah’ (feast of the dedication) culminating of Jesus explaining what I and My F-ther are One ABOUT….then ‘you may also come to know’ that “the F-ther IS IN Me, and I am in the F-ther” (but by the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit as the TRUELY ‘ANOINTED ONE’, & the ONLY ONE, to be ANOINTED by the sent ONE of My F-ther’s, and also Source, of ‘the PERSON’ of the Holy Spirit, He has made Me ONE & ONLY man down here, ‘WITHOUT MEASURE’, as ONE with the F-ther)
And it was the time of the feast of the dedication that Jesus told of himself being the good shepherd (John 10)
who would lay down his life for the sheep. And wasn’t it that through one man, a revolution came about because of a few who joined him, (time of the Maccabees) and then it grew so big, it overcame the enemies who had taken over the temple and made it unfit for the habitation of God?
Everything Jesus did was about the gospel. Yes he was a Jew born under the law, yet it’s been said that Jesus fulfilled the law so we don’t have to, and there is a lot of truth in that. Not that we should live in sin, but that we should live in a new and better way, by the Spirit of God.
Ray,
1Co 5:8 Therefore, let us feast, not with the old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness: but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
“Let us keep the feast” is an imperative. We are to keep it without physical or spiritual leaven. Not only without raised bread, but also without sin and false doctrine. You simply do not read what is written. Somehow you failed to deal with the other passages I quoted. They are too damning to your position is my guess. Here they are again for your easy reference:
If someone refuses to keep YHWH’s law or teaches men so they will be least in the kingdom at best. At worst they do not know YHWH and will be told by Messiah, “I never knew you.”
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 7:21 not every one who says to me, lord, lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he that does the will of my father who is in the heavens.
22 many shall say to me in that day, lord, lord, have we not prophesied through *thy* name, and through *thy* name cast out demons, and through *thy* name done many works of power?
23 and then will I avow unto them, I never knew you. depart from me, workers of lawlessness.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law…
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth (continues to break the law) hath not seen him, neither known him.
Anthea,
You might want to deal with the above passages also.
Shalom
Post 46 is yet to be dealt with.
Jacob (James) to the ‘Twelve Tribes’ says of ‘Elijah’, he was a man of ‘like passions’ was ‘we’ (men). He (after Ch. 18, I Kings) ran from Jezebel (her words to him after he had ordered the deaths of all the prophets of Baal, and she had heard of all the things which he had done) his ‘like passions’ came back to haunt him, especially that ordering the ‘killing’ of all those prophets (as if G-d had instructed him in this and other things INCLUDING stopping at the seat of ‘politics’ in the ‘gate of the City’ obviously to be seen of Abab and those returning back to where Jezebel ruled, even her husband, the King of Israel ?) Jezebel spirit (like in Revelation) is from Balaam in ‘doctrine’ who considered the marriage ‘consumation’ of Israel with their HUSBANDMAN from above to take place on this tiny ‘footstool’ of those under the unique laws given them by their HUSBANDMAN. Elijah, with like ‘passions’ did many things opposite to the ‘will’ of G-d and F-ther, betrothed, but not unto consummation with Israel, their HUSBANDMAN Adonai, over all of Israel IN HEAVEN (while on earth their ‘harlotry’ speaks also of today’s promised last days buildup of ‘harlotry’ of their false claims, including that of being a continuation of ISRAEL on this Planet denying Israel is here ‘without root’, nor ‘branch’, also Gentiles claiming being their ‘replacements’ HERE ON EARTH, even also unto a marriage consummation on this tiny ‘copy’ of those heavenly ‘dirt’ patterns ABOVE). Jezebel also knew of Elijah’s like ‘passions’ as a ‘male’ even to chose a YOUNG widow lady ‘in his past’, OVER the more mature, widow lady in the line from Abraham, that one he was sent unto with ALREADY G-d given, and faithful daughter of Abraham, awaiting his coming with ‘provisions’ for him, awaiting him within that City (not the one he chose for himself, in her youth, in her vulnerability, he had called for ‘outside’ the ‘gates’ of that City). He went into the City, found his ‘aid’ who had returned to her house, delivered her and was on his way to the ‘cave’ where he was instructed he would no longer hear the VOICE of his G-d except in a ‘still, small, manner’ of one who could no longer be trusted BY his ADONAI. One cannot find anything about Jesus and HIS commandments which are grievious (which came from His F-ther in HEAVEN, OUR F-ther ‘which art in HEAVEN’, BECAUSE OF HIS OBEDIENCE in hearing a Rhema Word from heaven above (out of the Torah, it’s TEACHINGS) AND NOT JUST FROM READING only, as was His turn at times on the Sabbath, and in which He actually left out of His turn to read, in His own home town of Nazareth, the promised fulfillment in a future coming of Messiah of Israel to have ‘come’ to ‘heal’ the ‘brokenhearted’ down here (obviously to be fulfilled IN HEAVEN where the true new Nation of Israel will ‘stand up’ AGAIN, in resurrection IN THE FLESH of ‘fallen first Adam’, in same likeness of very same ‘sinful FLESH’ OF BOTH First AND LAST Adam while on this tiny ‘footstool’ of HIS, AND WHERE HIS LAWS will again NOT BE GRIEVIOUS as what the Zealots in order to ‘conquer over the people’ made the LAW of Israel out ‘to be’ as attempting to replace the Holy Spirit as ‘teacher’, ‘companion’ of her
Bo,
Christians are not under the law. Jesus said so through his apostle. Read Romans and Galatians.
Didn’t Jesus command Christians to not become entangled with the yoke of the law, through his apostle?
Ray,
I Quoted what Messiah said and what His apostles wrote. If you want to ignore these direct statements in favor of man-made religion and traditions and commandments what does it say of your worship?
Mr 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Neither the Messiah nor His apostles commanded us to disobey YHWH’s law. They all warned us that to break it is sin and that sin is bondage. They warned us against being entangled in human tradition and commandments of men that turn us from the truth. What is truth?
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
As much as the words of the Son, the Father’s law is truth. We are not sanctified correctly if we ignore any of YHWH’s word. We will be least in the kingdom if we ignore even the smallest commandment.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
What is sin?
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Who is in bondage? Those that sin (break YHWH’s commandments…His law).
Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
We are only free if we are obedient disciples. Messiah’s words that we are to continue in include being sanctified by the Father’s word and being great in the kingdom if we obey it completely and teach others to do the same.
Ray, you think that the law is sin. Paul does not. John does not. Messiah does not. They think that it is truth and to be obeyed. I have read Romans and Galatians many, many times. Here are a few excerpts:
Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law…
Ro 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid…
What part of “God forbid.” do you not understand? Paul did not want anyone to think that he was teaching against keeping YHWH’s law and so he made himself perfectly clear over and over in the strongest language. If we do not understand him, we prove that our deceitful hearts have tricked us. Peter even says so.
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
Those that twist Paul to be saying that YHWH’s law is bondage or sin are carried away because of the error of the lawless. We need to be careful not to let this end up damning us.
Mt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but /only/ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
Psalm 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe: and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually.
118 Thou hast trodden down all them that err from thy statutes: for their deceit is falsehood.
119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.
I left out a verse.
Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law…
Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Hypocrisy, Bo.
How is that you can post verses but not hear what they say?
What’s your opinion of witchcraft, Jezebel, and Apollyon?
Bo,
Even newborn babes in Christ can understand by reading Col 2, that commandments of God about certain things, later became the doctrines and commandments of religious carnal men, and that those things (those doctrines and commandments of men concerning those things) are contrary to Christ.
Ray,
Your post is rhetoric with no substance. You still do not show how the verses I have quoted can be reconciled to your view…because they cannot.
Ac 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
It is heretical to say that YHWH’s perfect commandments become men’s carnal minded instructions. It is agreeing with false witnesses. But Paul told us that there would be carnal minded men that refused to keep YHWH’s commandments. The same Paul that wrote Colossians, wrote Romans.
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
YHWH’s commandments do not become doctrines of carnal men. Carnal men make up excuses as to why YHWH’s law does not apply. The Carnal mind will even think that YHWH’s law has become man’s false religious commandments. It is not newborn babes in Messiah that think this…it is longtime “Christians” that have fallen from their own steadfastness and have twisted Paul’s words along with the other scriptures to agree with their error.
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
How can the very commandments that are the word of YHWH be contrary to the Word of YHWH made flesh? Absurd! They are righteous altogether. They are perfect. They are wisdom. They are pure. At least that is what David thought and James spoke of.
Ps 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Those that cannot subject themselves to YHWH’s perfect law are carnal minded men that deceive themselves. Those that keep YHWH’s law are blessed in their deed and find great reward. Great in the kingdom sounds good to me. Least does not.
Who shall deliver me from this inward soul body of death while in the flesh ? Thank G-d, thru Jesus Christ (“it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord ! So then, with my MIND I myself serve the Torah TEACHINGS”) but with my flesh, as long as in ‘this’ life IN THE FLESH (including the ‘next’ life to come again also, IN THE FLESH)) “I SERVE THE LAW”, but only while also ‘IN THE FLESH’ of fallen first Adam, as was my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ‘for a little while’ made also ‘lower than the angels’ so that ‘thru death’ He might break the power of the one (that is, the Devil who had the power of death) and ‘free those’ WHO BY FEAR OF DEATH WERE IN BONDAGE all their lives !). Romans 8 (mostly ‘Tree of Life’ Version against the accusers, even of Paul now saved under the NEW Covenant, also besides twice born in ‘this initial life’ IN THE FLESH, IS ALSO TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT in ‘this initial’ life to be lived out IN THE FLESH, in also being now ‘BORN FROM ABOVE’ in this ‘initial’ life) “therefore, there is NOW no condemnation to those who are in Messiah Yeshua. For the ‘law’ OF THE SPIRIT…” (that is of my new life in Messiah Yeshua has set you, both Jew and Gentile, FREE FROM THE LAW as contained within the TEACHINGS of the Torah as given to the ‘children of the Nation of Israel’ who gave birth to Messiah Yeshua, of whom I now follow) “for it was IMPOSSIBLE” (for the TEACHINGS within Torah’s LAWS given to the Nation of Israel) “since it was weakened” on account of, and by my life, while still living “IN THE FLESH” now (and will continue in my resurrection ‘IN THE FLESH’ also). Messiah Yeshua coming to ‘this footstool’ IN THE VERY SAME LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, and as regarding sin ? “HE CONDEMNED SIN” (strictly unto the FLESH in which when resurrected in same ‘dna’, IN THE FLESH once again ?) “so that the requirement” of Torah’s requirement to the Nation of Israel, who will be ‘without root’, nor ‘branch’ on this tiny initial life to be lived out IN THE FLESH, while leaving no ‘replacements’ or ‘continuations’ down here (thru it’s TEACHINGS for to be gained from it’s LAW, once given the Nation of ISRAEL, which is forever, but just not down here on this tiny ‘footstool’ and ‘copy’ only, of those existing heavenly ‘dirt’ patterns ABOVE, also ‘of His’) “so that the requirement” of the TEACHINGS within Torah “might be fulfilled in us” (“who do not walk” anymore in ‘this initial life’ to be lived out IN THE FLESH “as according to the flesh, but according to the ‘RUACH’ (FOR THOSE WHO LIVE both in this life AND THE NEXT as according to life IN THE SPIRIT sent both here AND in the next life also, that is the RUACH ‘of Promise’, Who came, and will come also in the Next Life Promised, as sent by the F-ther of Messiah Yeshua beyond that of simply RUACH of ‘Conviction’ by ‘HIM’ without measure also upon Messiah Yeshua for that ‘little while’, the SAME ‘LIFE IN THE SPIRIT’ must be also upon, and of Promise WITHIN, OTHERWISE “the mindset of the FLESH” remains “HOSTILE TOWARDS G-D” (both in ‘this life’ AND WILL REMAIN so also ‘in the next’, to all those remaining void of RUACH Himself)
Hear ye! Hear ye!
Let it be known that I fully believe that Y’shua was born of a virgin in Bethlehem, but…where do we get the idea from any passage of scripture that we are to celebrate that event? Where did the Apostles command such a feast or celebration? Why do we adhere to the commandments of men, popes at that, instead of keeping the commandments of YHWH?
1 Samuel 15
13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the LORD: I have performed the commandment of the LORD.
14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?…
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
To obey is better that sacrifice. It is pride and rebellion to forsake keeping YHWH’s feasts and invent our own way and day of worship. Ask Saul what it cost him to do things his own way and going along with the crowd instead of paying close attention to the details of YHWH’s direct commands.
Man invented xmas. He set the date on a man made calendar. Messiah did not invent it. His feasts are kept according to the scriptural calendar by YHWH’s instructions.
We are supposed to remember Messiah’s death not His Birthday. Continuing in the Apostle’s doctrine does not include xmas. Keeping YHWH’s feasts does not include xmas. Doing what the scripture commands does not include xmas. Are you beginning to see a pattern here?
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mr 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Worshiping in vain? Xmas is a tradition of man. It is a commandment of man. It is a teaching/doctrine of man. But you might say, “What really matters is what is in a persons heart.”
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Mr 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Yep the above is just about everything that xmas entails. It really is what is in the heart that matters…and it comes out very obviously at xmas.
Something to think about…was Y’shua incarnated at His birth or His conception? Mary knew the day of His conception and His birth and the information was never recorded in scripture. He was about 30, not exactly 30, when He started His ministry. That date is lost to history too.
A date we do know is the date of His death…not on a man made calendar, but on the scriptural one…interesting. We know the date of his rising to His Father after 3 days too…not on a man made calendar, but the scriptural one. We know the date of the pouring out of His Spirit too…not on a man made calendar, but on the scriptural one. Every one of the dates we do know were on YHWH’s proclaimed feast days. Do you think that maybe YHWH is trying to tell us something? Do you think that he was born on one of those Biblical feast days that YHWH’s commanded too? (In case you are wondering, 12/25 on a man made calendar is not one of YHWH’s Biblical feast days.) Food for thought, don’t you think?
Shalom
What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears? Should the sounds of xmas be heard within the body of Messiah? Have we destroyed YHWH’s enemies completely or are we letting the best of what they have to offer live on to corrupt us little by little?
We were not put on this planet to do whatever we wanted in our worship of YHWH. To obey is better than sacrifice. Our inventions that we offer to YHWH are a stench when have refused to obey what He has said. If He thought that the celebration of xmas was of any importance or would correctly and sufficiently glorify Him instead of man, would he not have used the Apostles to institute it?
12/25 is not the way He keeps time. If we want to keep our birthdays and appointments and tax year by this kind of calendar, that is within our bounds and our system of relating to one another. YHWH gave us the revelation of His calendar and His feast dates by His calendar. He sets the rules about how we are to relate to Him in His system. Xmas is not on YHWH’s list of feast days and it is not of the same character as the things that are on YHWH’s list. We exalt ourselves and the things that we think are important against Him and His idea of what is important by inventing things like xmas.
Our hearts are deceitful. Yes we stand or fall before our master and He has given us the scripture so that we know what pleases Him and what is characteristic of His ways. Xmas is not. This new altar that we have built is polluted. The offerings that we offer on it are polluted.
Am 2:4 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:
We have inherited lies from our fathers and church fathers. It is about time that us Gentiles admitted it, repented and got back to doing things YHWH’s way.
Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
It is time to stop being wishy washy and stand firm of what the Bible declares as correct. It is time to return to YHWH and keep His commandments instead of going with the flow of our Gentile fathers. If we value our relationships with our family over obeying YHWH, we are not really following Him.
Lu 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
The cost is high. The suffering that we experience from distanced earthly relationships is part and parcel with being Messiah’s disciple. Not going along with xmas will certainly cost us with our relatives and friends. Let the dead bury their dead. Follow Y’shua. It is the most loving thing you can do for your relatives. They need to see real disciples of Messiah do very difficult things.
Shalom
“let all the angels of G-d” now begin to worship HIM ‘in His BIRTH, thru His death into Hades, thru His ‘standing up again’ in this tiny ‘footstool’ of HIS, thru His resurrection from His deathS with the ‘rich’, UNTO HIS final ‘rising’ from this ‘footstool’ INTO HIS PERFECTION from the days of HIS OWN “FLESH’ received FROM “HIS BIRTH” of which the angels are to also be ‘celebrated’ WHO ARE ‘OF G-D’ who BEGAN to worship HIM (while ‘the Shepherds’ who first saw THESE ANGELS above them in the heavens above their ‘fields’ on this tiny ‘footstool’ of HIS, came to “see for themselves” and “when they had seen” this ONE of lowly birth, “they made known” the very WORD that which had been spoken unto them by the ‘leading angel’, as concerning this particular CHILD (IN CELEBRATION of this ‘good news’ of GREAT JOY, and to continue afterwards celebrating of their loss of ‘great FEAR’ which at first had come upon them by the great display of the angels SUDDENLY coming over them in those ‘fields’ turned into GREAT JOY from then onward)
So many refuse to hear the gospel which tells of the grace of God and his good will toward men, which of all things grants men the liberty to celebrate a day to honor God and him whom he sent from heaven, his only begotten Son, even though it was not specifically commanded them in the Old Testament scriptures.
Correction: Maybe it’s not really so many, but rather only a few, though one would seem to be too many. There won’t be any in heaven like that.
The ‘New Covenant’ celebrates in the Torah (teachings continued) CELEBRATING, if for no other reason, as often as necessary, for- “TO FEAR NOT” !
In addition to Post 81, I could say that I could have added the words “except by type or shadow.” to the end.
To those desiring to keep the law,I have a few questions… what calendar do you use? When is the 1st day of the month on your calendar? do you start counting 7 days on a secular calendar for the sabbath? Do you wait for the new moon for the 1st day of the new month? Do you then count 7 days for the sabbath? Do you just use every [saturn]day for the sabbath? Did not the apostle Paul say that if you want to set apart a day as special unto the Lord,do it? Or if you want to treat every day the same [and do it as unto the Lord] do it, and don’t speak evil of the other? When you celebrate your feasts and festivals, do you do it according to the two witnesses of the new moon? Is it not the Spirit and not the letter of the law that shows the condition of the heart? Is God more interested in the moon and counting of days than the intent of the heart?
/
Those who say the suicide rate goes down during the ‘holidays’ of Christ MASS and New Year day of Celebration (as to the world who chooses to FEAR, rather than celebrate Christ Jesus, our Messiah Yeshua’s birth, also the New Year, marked by HIS birth between B.C. 1 and A.D. 1) must keep in mind the major Cities, competing for the money derived from vistors in celebrations around the World, almost ALL keep their ‘stats’ by free shipping of the ‘deaths by suicide’ of the bodies during these particular ‘holidays’, WITHOUT ever releasing results of actual clear ’cause’ of these ‘deaths’, mostly left for ‘stats’ under ’cause UNKNOWN’ (even if possible criminal activity was only suspected ALSO during specifically these two holidays of celebration and competition for ‘end of the year’ lavish spending, FOR A LITTLE WHILE the drowning out of their partying in entertainment OF THEIR ONGOING FEARS re: either in living, OR a chance dying?
Ray,
You have invented a religion instead of practicing what is proclaimed in the Gospels and Epistles.
You are good at rhetoric…but you just cannot deal with the “New Testament” verses that I quote. I wonder why.
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
We are not free to break the law or invent our own holy days. We are free from sin, if we are true believers in Messiah. Being free from sin does not mean that breaking the law is not sin. It means that we, by the power of the Spirit do not break it. Self deceit is very deceitful. Those deceived by it do not know that they are deceived…otherwise it would not be called deceit.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Mr 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
If you are going to spend a whole day drinking beer to your god or watching football to your god, and proclaim it a feast to YHWH and get the vast majority of the religious and the heathen alike to join you on the day that the pope sanctioned such worship and go into debt buying beer and beer mugs and flat screen TVs and NFL tickets and proclaim that it is in honor of the day that Messiah played catch with His disciples and refreshed himself with a pint…I would say that you would be inventing your own tradition, commandment and doctrine of men that turns from the truth.
And if you did the above “Holiday” instead of actually keeping the feasts that YHWH set up, I would say that your worship was vain…just like Messiah told the Pharisees for doing much the same thing.
There are examples in the scripture of men that set up their own supposed feasts to YHWH. Why do you want to participate in the modern version of such apostasy?
Exodus 32
1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them…
So the above people invested much wealth in creating their own “feast to the Lord.” They even had the leader of their congregation give his approval. This is what happens when we forget to believe Moses forever as YHWH wanted us to do.
Ex 19:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
But if you will not hear/obey Moses and the prophets, you will not hear/obey the one that rose from the dead either.
Lu 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
I guess you could copy a real feast of YHWH and just change the date. Is that acceptable?
1 Kings 12
26 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David:
27 If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah…
32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
33 So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
1Ki 14:16 And he shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin, and who made Israel to sin.
1Ki 15:30 Because of the sins of Jeroboam which he sinned, and which he made Israel sin, by his provocation wherewith he provoked the LORD God of Israel to anger.
2Ki 10:31 But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin.
Xmas is a feast that man has devised of their own heart. It is a replacement of YHWH’s true feasts. It could be said that the spirit of xmas is the spirit of Jeroboam that continues to cause YHWH’s people to sin. It is time to depart from the sins of Jeroboam and return to walking in YHWH’s instructions. Over and over Jeroboam is mentioned as the one that caused Israel to sin. It is his legacy. Because of this stumbling block, Israel was taken captive by the Assyrians and scattered into all the nations of the earth.
So you can have your Beer and Football worship day or you can have your invented “feast to the Lord” or you can change the date of YHWH’s feast for your own convenience or you can participate in xmas…it is all the same. Enjoy it while you can.
You can be your own king making the rules for your little kingdom. Or you can repent and begin to walk in YHWH’s law and He will circumcise your heart and the heart of your children and gather you from all the nations that He has scattered you and bring you back to His land and you will rule and reign with Him a thousand years.
Deuteronomy 30
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
You would do well to learn these lessons.
Bo, Clearly you have made your own golden calf of religion.
Some people believe ‘Moses’ and ‘Elijah’ are the resurrection IN THE FLESH ‘two witnesses’ of the Book of things to come IN HEAVEN beyond this tiny ‘footstool’ of HIS (citing also they were in the ‘vision’ on Mt. Hermon in which the 3 Disciples were told not to tell anyone until after the Christ is risen from the dead). We propose they were being lectured as to not continue in ‘anger’ even unto falsely believing the F-ther was ‘angry’ over man’s sin, and desired as do all angry men TO BE APPEASED of His ‘righteous ANGER’ also ? Elijah was ANGRY with Israel, even unto calling fire down from heaven (not knowing which ‘spirit’ he was of, at the time) and ‘killing’ off ALL those who had just witnessed this display of Elijah’s anger, for to see if they would repent ? Even as Moses ‘in his anger’ STRUCK the ‘rock’, instead of simply ‘speaking’ unto IT for to bring forth ‘water’ of ‘refreshing’ for the children). We submit therefore Torah (teachings) the two witnesses are spoken of in both Old and New Testament, that of Daniel ‘will have his lot’, and John the Revelator and Apostle who ‘must prophesy AGAIN’ from the ‘scroll’ which had turned even further ‘bitter’ IN THE FLESH of the next life and ‘resurrection’ from this ‘initial only life’ IN THE FLESH ! Using Moses and Elijah as our hero’s in displaying ANGER, as if wholely righteous, furthermore in agreement with the F-ther’s supposed ANGER above, AGAINST mere men who do not follow all the LAW given for teachings within Torah UNTO THE CHILDREN (of Israel) now no longer with either ‘root’ nor ‘branch’ left down here in this ‘initial only’ life to be lived out IN THE FLESH (BUT WHO DESIRE ‘F-ther’s BAPTISM’ now unto their salvation BY MAINTAINING AN EXCELLENT CONSCIENCE with the F-ther of all spirits and lights, the F-ther and SOURCE of Messiah Yeshua, THE SOURCE including HIM, THE SENT by the F-ther of His precious HOLY SPIRIT of Promise, promises with conditions ? one main promise is to let one’s anger at his fellow man not continue beyond ‘sundown’, and thru baptism IN HOLY SPIRIT and ‘real fire’ do not continue in ANGER at those who have not yet ‘tasted’ of the ‘HEAVENLY GIFT’ of an ETERNAL MERCY SEATING at the right hand of F-ther above WHO HIMSELF was ‘never’ ANGRY to the point of His desiring appeasement of sin of ‘man’ for Himself (as the catholic world promise buildup insists upon) ?
I’ve heard it said that we have two witnesses, the word and the spirit. Then again, maybe we have two witnesses being Jew and Gentile believers.
A basic commandment: do not worship other gods, or “do not worship idols”. Deuteronomy 12:31 says “Do not worship the Lord your God in THEIR way” (NIV, emphasis mine). Exodus 32 shows this in action along with the Father’s displeasure. I will not type out the full chapter here, but the scripture clearly shows that the “golden calf” incident was the Israelites, fresh out of Egypt, trying to worship the Father the way Egyptians worshiped their gods.
Verse 5:
Aaron announced “tomorrow will be a festival to the Lord”. His intent was to worship the Father. However, we are shown that INTENT is not as important as OBEDIENCE. It is not permissible to “reclaim” pagan things and call them things of the Father.
Hi Nicholas,
Thank you for detailing your beliefs according to your Roman Catholic upbringing. I was not aware of the depth of your convictions. Let me ask you, Nicholas, describing yourself as a conservative R.C, is your belief consistent with the mainstream R.C. thinking regarding God’s chosen people? By the way, I was raised Jewish and came to the Lord in 2006. So I would classify myself as a Messianic Jew, the same as Dr. Brown. Your comments certainly crystallize for me why you say what you say regarding this subject. And again I thank you for that.
Of course, Nicholas, I find your views rather disturbing and I am not going delve into this arena again but I starting to understand why there has been such a divide between the Roman Catholic Church and the Jewish people for all these years. Although there seems to be some softening by the Vatican recently. However if our conflicting beliefs in love are a sample of the differences between our people’s theology’s, I believe we still have a way to go. In the end, Nicholas, we’ll both have to stand before our creator and be judged for our actions. Amen.
Blessings,
Ron
P.S. If Dr. Brown is willing I would like to debate you in love on his program regarding these issues.
Any debates regardless of who the debate is between (even also what the debate is between as to ethnic backgrounds) on ‘this tiny footstool’, and ‘initial only INTRO’ IN THE FLESH, unto eternal existence in a future changed ‘spiritual BODY’, somewhere. in this ever expanding, never ending, material entire Universe, to house the also ETERNAL experiment of eternal ‘free-will’ of certain creatures of Creation, with ability to ‘fellowship’, with not only one another, but with their own Creator and Source of all spirits and lights, regardless of their ethnicity and background (brief as it is, especially in this ‘initial only life’ to be lived out IN THE FLESH, AND THE ‘NEXT LIFE’ also unto a sure eventual instantaneous CHANGE promised of the hidden within limited ‘spiritual BODY’ contained within the also hidden within human NATURAL living, yet hidden within ‘soul BODY’ both of which contained temporarily by a temporal outer ‘tent’ which is not a ‘body’ but temporal outer FLESH ‘covering only’ TEMPORAL tabernacle IN WHICH THE INNER SOUL ‘BODY’ will await the ‘resurrection’ of different ‘dust’, same ‘dna’, ALSO IN TEMPORAL FLESH and dust to dust in very same likeness of very same ‘sinful’ FLESH from ethnicity of first Adam SHARED, including first man and woman BEFORE resurrection of the ‘first Adam’, AND same ‘sinful’ FLESH (of the twice born ONLY joined with Messiah Yeshua) of which the Son came fully EMPTIED for a ‘little while only’ in the very same from the ‘first resurrected Adam AS ‘LAST ADAM’) must hammer out from Sola Scriptura (complete TEACHINGS) Torah as to when will, or when WAS the Scripture fulfilled, of Israel (which is forever, but not on this tiny ‘footstool’) to be, or already left, either down here, or up there ? without neither ‘root’ nor ‘branch’, when, where, for how long ? (the basis of almost ALL ‘ethnicities’ at war with each other, WITHOUT fellowship arrival)
Ray,
You wrote:
“Bo, Clearly you have made your own golden calf of religion.”
Let me see…
I agree with every word of scripture keeping the Holy Days of YHWH and believing Messiah that only those that keep all of YHWH’s commandments and teach others to do the same will be great in His kingdom. No golden calf anywhere in that.
You, on the other hand, refuse to keep YHWH’s feast days and substitute pagan days and ideas and celebrate a supposed feast to “GOD” following the crowd. You believe that YHWH’s word in the first 2/3 of scripture is now commandments and doctrines of men.
Which is a golden calf?
Ex 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.
25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)
26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD’S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
So today we have a holiday that was produced when Messiah seemed to delay His coming. People spend their “gold” to make it fancy. They claim that it is a feast to YHWH and get drunk and naked. They just go with what ever comes out of the fire of this worlds ways.
I have to ask…”Who is on YHWH’s side?” The answer is pretty obvious.
There are doctrines that are held by portions of the Church which we might examine and instead of either joining a side to establish, promote, maintain, defend, and build up, or demote, tear down, deconstruct, and oppose, it seems we would do better to examine, talk about, or debate, the benefit, the purpose that such things serve, and whether or not they accomplish much good, or some evil.
Bo, Jesus never intended people to keep the letter of the entire law, no matter what time or season God would put in his power, nor did he ever teach men to hold to the letter of the law, well after or especially after Pentecost comes and the Holy Spirit is given.
That’s just not what he was about. He doesn’t work that way. That’s not how the gospel works,
and this seems to me to be your golden calf.
Though a man put up a multitude of verses to hid behind, while his intents and actions are evil, he may still be seen behind his stalking horse.
( a stalking horse was sometimes used to hide behind while a hunter would be moving toward his prey)
Religion isn’t to be used that way. A man in such a condition will neither be able to ride a white horse, nor will he have a sword.
Ray,
I have quoted many “New Testament” verses and you still have no way to answer why they do not mean what they say. You are the one that hides behind man-made ideas and cover the details of scripture and make it void with your doctrines of men.
Messiah was upset that the religious leaders had made up their own rules instead of doing what YWHH had commanded. Messiah taught us to keep all of YHWH’s commandments. If He did not, then he is not the greatest in the Kingdom. If He did not, He is a sinner in need of a savior instead of being our Savior. You have made the commandments of YHWH of no effect by your traditions and commandments of men. Real faith does no do that.
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
But you cannot see it because of the deception that comes when we are not doers of the word. The law is spiritual. The carnal mind just cannot understand and thus will not obey YHWH’s law.
Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
I know of no one who claims Christmas as a “fest to YHWH” and then goes to get drunk and naked while they make that decree, though I do believe the nature of many is to get carried away in celebration at times.
During the cease fire of 1914 which occurred on No Man’s land during WW 1, it started out with the signing of Christmas hymns and spread through the trenches. Then there were Christmas trees seen lined along the German line with candles and lights, then there was exchanging of singing across both lines. Then came an invitation to meet in the middle, outside the trenches with an agreement of “you no shoot, we no shoot.” and this happened. Then there was exchanging of gifts, cigars, cigarettes, bottles of wine, even a barrel of beer was rolled across No Man’s land to the opposing forces. Later men were seen with whatever “toys” they could find to exchange. One was seen riding a bicycle backwards across No Man’s land entertaining as a foolish child with a new toy, but all of this was a far sight better than men shooting each other, it seems to me, and this odd protest of war started out because of Christmas, because of the gospel of Christ. It continued having it’s effects even up to New Years when a new arrival of troops came to renew the war effort. Sadly this did not work to produce a sudden ending to the war. No surprise I suppose as it started out from the bottom up, rather than from the top down.
But if we want to look at things in history that might resemble a Jesus movement, or a Jesus revolt, or a Jesus revolution, we might look there.
Should we kill the holiday because some people get carried away in the celebration, is that the answer? Is it the holiday that’s evil, is that it?
I will submit that maybe there’s something not quite altogether correct with some people, and it isn’t the holiday that is to blame.
So is Christmas bad because it wasn’t an established, ordained feast day in the Old Testament Law? And because it wasn’t, does that mean that it will only produce evil?
Sounds like a doctrine of man to me.
I’d like to leave with a bit of exhortation here to do good:
If history repeats itself, Let’s do good today.