The Annual Christmas Debate

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Should believers celebrate Christmas? Hanukkah? Both? Neither? And why? Dr. Brown will take your calls for this annual Christmas debate. Is this a God-glorifying holiday or a pagan celebration? Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.


Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As we come to the end of our annual Christmas debate, whatever you do, do it with all of your heart to God, honoring Jesus above all.

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Whatever the world does or doesn’t do, it is a glorious truth to know that Jesus came to the world.

Other Resources:

The Annual Christmas Debate

Are We Mixing Politics with Religion? And Thoughts on Last Night’s Creation-Evolution Debate

Some Honest Questions for Pastor Andy Stanley, and Updates on Campus Morality and on Broadcasting Freedom

  1. The very magnitude of the ‘Eternal Son’ of the Eternal Adonai, neither with a beginning and both having created ‘man’ and other ‘creatures’ with no ending, as They, along with the Holy Spirit of Adonai, the Son to have completely ’emptied Himself’ also in coming into this completely pagan world, the Holy Spirit parcially emptied in coming also as the Spirit ‘of Promise’, AND further, for the Eternal Son to consider each person of Adamic (now completely pagan, fallen) man as ‘better than Himself’ ? (is certainly worth pausing for, observing the generally unseen angels ‘of G-d’, even on clearly a fallen world pagan ‘holiday’, yet participating in their mandate to ‘worship’ the Christ ‘CHILD’ (when ALL this completely now pagan world, for it’s first time, was first called for ‘to be taxed’) humans still today considering this particular ‘holiday’ taxing (highest time of the year in suicides, breakdowns, extreme anxieties, end of past year reflections, in a ‘fallen world’ from which the ‘initiating’ Savior of mankind came to show us His ADONAI, His F-ther AND Source also, and only by the ‘power’ of the also sent Holy Spirit of ADONAI)

  2. I usually call in when this debate is on. But I decided to write my thoughts down instead.
    Chestnuts roasting on the fire, families getting together over good food with nice hymns playing in the background is a beautiful thing this time of the year. And for that reason and that reason alone, I don’t have a problem with the Christmas season.
    However to honour this festival is TOTALLY unbiblical.
    I will list my reasons for this comment.

    1 Jesus NEVER celebrated his own birthday. Why not? Because his father in heaven never sanctified it as one of HIS appointed days.
    2 Jesus celebrated one festival at this time of the year and again it wasn’t his birthday. What festival was it? John 10:22 tells us. It was the feast of Dedication. Or Chanukah. Which IS one of God’s appointed days albeit a minor one.
    3 God is NOT a God of confusion, this time of the year is always highlighted with people so stressed out HAVING to buy gifts with money they sometimes just don’t have. You hear their comments every year at this time. And then one hears after Dec.25th, thank God, that’s over with. Is this what our God intended people to have to deal with?
    4 As we all know the suicide rate is always the highest at this time of the year. What a dichotomy of emotions. Many families enjoying the day and others feeling so alone deciding to END their existence on this earth. Is that what our God intended?
    Most scholars would say that the birth of Jesus on Dec. 25th is “highly unlikely.” Why? well for one reason, Augustus, the Roman emperor at that time would never require his territories to be taxed in the winter. The Sheep pens were closed in the winter. Most likely Jesus would have been born in the fall around the Feast of Sukkot which IS one of God’s appointed times.
    6 I’ve left the best reason for last. Our Father in heaven, our creator of all living beings, creator of the universe NEVER, NEVER told us when his son was born and yet MAN has been telling GOD for ALL these years, guess what Lord, you didn’t tell us BUT we’re telling you when your son was born (with Pagan overtones) What an abomination!!! God NEVER told us and never will tell us. Micah3:6 I am the Lord thy God, I change NOT.
    However should I be surprised? I think NOT. What with 80% of the world gone secular, the CHURCH for the most part teaching a watered down Gospel. Not speaking the truth as God laid out so clearly in LEV.23 and the body in general NOT fearing GOD like the apostle Paul warned would happen. Again, should I be surprised about honoring Christmas day? Call me LEGALISTIC. Well my God is Legalistic. The truth is the truth. “I am the way, the truth and the life.” john 14:6.
    I won’t look down on anyone that does NOT uphold God’s truths. I will pray for them in love that their hearts may be open to hear and see.
    And to you Dr. Brown, may I take this opportunity to wish you and Nancy and your family a happy Chanukah. And may you have SHALOM.

  3. Love Christmas, but I’m trying to increase the time/effort spent on Easter/Passover/Resurrection Sunday — this was the major festival for the church. It’s kind of a witness, too. Most people in UK don’t bother with it, so if you do, it really gets attention.

  4. …whereas people don’t notice if you take Jesus seriously at Christmas.

    Re pagan roots. Everything Ron says is correct, except that I see the Church’s takeover of Saturnalia as God taking back what belongs to Him. The seasons are His, the trees are His. He rakes what is rotten and godless and redeems it. So I’m taking Christmas from the pagans!

    If you feel differently, then that’s all right. I don’t see you as weak in faith or a compromiser.

    One no-no for me is: definitely no Father Christmas (UK) or Santa Claus. Bishop Nicholas of Myra was a real believer. We can emulate his acts of charity, but he does not get the gifts. *Mama and Papa* get the presents for the children. I am taking a break from wrapping them now!

  5. I don’t think Jesus was born on December 25, but since the holiday has been set on that day for so long and is so established, I see no justification for changing the date. Jesus’ birth was assigned to December 25 at least as early as the time of Hippolytus (early third century). The earliest Christians to comment on why December 25 was chosen say nothing about borrowing from paganism. Instead, they give non-pagan reasons for choosing that date. Similarly, the earliest sources commenting on March 25 as Jesus’ conception or birth date (with a March 25 conception date leading to a December 25 date for his birth) give non-pagan reasons for selecting March 25. See the following:

    The objection that a census wouldn’t have occurred during the winter is dubious. There would have been a longer period of time, not just one season, for people to register in a census. See note 7 in Stephen Carlson’s article at:

    Shepherds could have been out in winter. There’s reference to it in ancient Jewish literature:,+shekalim+7:4&source=bl&ots=0Bsjt4nmuN&sig=nTdqCS_qak3Vjy3e4a7daeIMbX8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Su5fVIf5A4ugyASlg4KgDg&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=mishnah%2C%20shekalim%207%3A4&f=false

    And the tendencies of winter weather in general wouldn’t tell us what the weather was like during the winter closest to when Jesus was born. Temperature averages are significant and should be taken into account, but they’re just averages. A winter weather average could easily be outweighed by other factors.

    Again, December 25 probably isn’t the day when Jesus was born. But objections to that date like the ones I’ve referred to above are dubious.

    And the idea that the suicide rate is highest at this time of year is incorrect:

  6. We can agree that ‘taxation’ was then over 7 yrs. ending at Winter Sol (known to be at times up to our Dec. 25 ending), that Mary left Elizabeth because Mary was now ‘greater with Child’ (than her Cousin Elizabeth who was at that time when she needed Mary the ‘most’, approximately 9 mo. carrying John whom later said Messiah Yeshua came ‘before him’ in EVERYTHING) also needed to be in her place of birth of Bethlehem BEFORE that year, after 7 years announced taxation’s ‘winter sol’, along with the ‘accounting’ of the great numbers of ‘sheep’ also for to be ‘taxed’ before Roman deadline (sheep needed for Jerusalem’s masses attending ‘feasts’ assigned by Law unto the Nation of Israel, the ‘industry’ handed down from many once also by birth, like Mary, in the Bethlehem area of hills just below the great City on ‘seven hills’). No room, except in a ‘booth’ left from the last feast of the both ‘industry’ of ‘sheep raising’ and the City of Jerusalem where ISRAEL was returned along with the majority of Jews who were not of Israel, but ancestry had returned from exile of both Jews and of the Nation of Israel.

  7. Birth of human ‘Savior’ is a ‘big deal’, & should be ‘celebrated’ ANNUALLY as well as every day this tiny ‘footstool’ comes one day closer to it’s entire ‘heavens’ on ‘real’ fire, ending all human soul life suddenly on this ‘footstool’ of HIS (even as ‘human nature’ remembers the birth of offspring, especially that of their ‘first born’ male ‘child’, as was Who Mary of her father Joseph, of her mother’s father also named Joseph (of the tribe of Judah, of ISRAEL) gave HIM birth

  8. A Christian celebrating Hannukah and not Christmas seems rather ludicrous to me. We should not celebrate any of the feasts of the Old Covenant, since the New has superseded the Old. Christ has come. There is a new order established in the incarnation of the Son of God, to which the old feasts merely pointed. Passover, what have you, none of these should be celebrated under any circumstances.

  9. Michael Brown. Striving for accuracy and grace, I appreciate that you had an offer here recently on the Tree of Life Messianic fellowship translation of the scriptures. It offers an excuse too to reread once more so much that I am always trying to understand as authors intended. For example, I intentionally read Peter to attempt to give him equal weight with Paul and John. The Lord certainly did give him that weight when on earth prior to the resurrection. U ask my self, what did John want, Paul want, and Peter want — in addressing believers throughout time? I don’t want to miss the times or time, or its charged use.

    Reading the intro material, it is a wonder that this was an effort in the unity of the faith, and with the goal of reaching the unreached Yehudim by the emerging Messianic remnant of Israel. Have you done a program on this translation and how it came to pass, and its purpose for present publication?

  10. Karaite Jew, Nehemiah Gordon, says the miracle of Hanukah (the oil which was only enough to burn for 1 day burning for 8 days) wasn’t mentioned until 350 years after the event was supposed to have taken place ( and

    I know he rejects the assumed authority of the Rabbis, but is he questioning whether the miracle occurred at all or whether celebrating Hanukah by the lighting of the candles in the window was the “correct” way of commemorating Hanukah before 350 yrs after the fact vs it merely being one of the many Rabbinic “takanot”?

    I’d started lighting candles this year, but since I’d heard some rabbis make the claim that Hanukah was the litmus test that actually established the authority of the rabbis, I felt a little uncertain whether I wanted to go ahead with it (especially because you burn the candles in the window, which sort of invites pride); after I saw NG’s video (the second night of Hanukah), I stopped observing Hanukah (after the Rabbinic tradition) altogether.

  11. I’ve experienced many family Christmases since childhood, with lots of decorations, decorated trees with lights, presents under the tree, and even Santa Claus, but I never heard that Dec 25th was the Lord’s birthday, or that we knew that it was that time of year when he was born. Though I was never told those things, I knew Christmas was about the celebration of his birth, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

  12. A well known scholar, Michael Heiser, who Dr. B. interviewed on his show once, shows by astronomical software and Biblical and historical sources that Jesus would have been born on the first day of Rosh Hashanna, or the Feast of Trumpets, on September 11, 3BC.

    Strange, I know, but, seeing as God rebukes the ones He loves and 9/11 was a wake-up call for Christians in this country—maybe world wide—I don’t find it that odd that evil would take occasion to sully the Lord’s birth date, which, if you think about it, the modern invention of the computer just now allows us to trace it all the way back in time. The ancients and those of John the Apostle’s time would have known who he was talking about as born when the dragon tried to kill him and the woman fled to Eygpt for 3+1/2 years until the death of Herod spoken of in Rev. 12.

    The DVD, “The Star of Bethlehem” is a beautify documentary outlining the same thing. Michael Heiser The Star of Bethlehem

  13. Ron Levine,

    Thank you for your post. I agree with you, except for one common misconception. I called Dr. Brown’s radio show last year to say suicide is at its highest around this time of year. He corrected me. Thank you, Dr. Brown.

    Suicide rates are highest in the spring (and summer) and lowest around the holidays.

    “On average, about 700 Americans kill themselves each week — but in the fine-weather weeks of May and June, the toll rises closer to 800, sometimes higher. Every year, suicide peaks with the tulips and lilacs — increasing roughly 15 percent over the annual average to create one of psychiatry’s most consistent epidemiological patterns.”

    Clues in the Cycle of Suicide:

    Seasonal Effects on Suicide Rates:

    Springtime Suicide Peak Still Puzzles Scientists:

    The Connection Between Spring and Suicide:

    Suicide Facts:

  14. Here’s a beautiful song from Michael Card taken from the 2nd chapter of Luke, 25-35.

    Merry Christmas Everyone!!

  15. Sheila,
    I heard the only reason the shepherds would have been out at night (when the angel announced the birth of Jesus to them) was because they were helping the ewes give birth, which would have meant Jesus was born around Passover.

    December 25th is the day when (according to the software) “The Real Star of Bethlehem” claims the Magi arrived to give gifts to Jesus (when he was a toddler).

  16. I guess all you guys got the jump on me this year.

    There are days that YHWH has asked us to keep in remembrance of His plan of salvation. They are listed in Leviticus 23. The supposed birthday of Messiah is not one of them. When we think that we are obeying what YHWH has commanded but are actually offering a sacrifice that He has not prescribed, we look a lot like a king that was anointed by YHWH and then rejected.

    1Sa 15:13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the LORD: I have performed the commandment of the LORD.
    14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
    15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
    16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the LORD hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
    17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the LORD anointed thee king over Israel?
    18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
    19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD?
    20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
    21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal.
    22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
    23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

    We have the same excuse as Saul did…”but the people…” We say, “I can’t help it…the people are making me do it…the church fathers are to blame…our society must be followed.” We have the “word of YHWH” on what He wants celebrated and we offer something to Him instead that He said to totally destroy.

    Re 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    We sing an old song of paganism and man’s doctrine instead of the true new song of our redemption that is spelled out in YHWH’s feasts. We have been redeemed to reign on the earth as kings and priests, but have followed in the footsteps of king Saul instead of in the footsteps of Messiah. He didn’t celebrate His birth nor tell us when it was. He kept His Father’s feasts.

    Will we be YHWH’s kings and priests if we continue down the broad road that Saul paved?

    Ho 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    We conveniently forget YHWH’s law. We reject the knowledge of His law and keep our own feasts unto Him like Jeroboam that caused all Israel to sin. Is it any wonder that our children are leaving the faith in droves? They have been forgotten because of our lukewarmness and halfheartedness.

    1Ki 12:32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.

    1Ki 14:7 Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel,
    8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes…
    16 And he shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin, and who made Israel to sin.

    We are rejected from being kings and priests because we have received a very wicked lie that it doesn’t really matter as long as our intentions are good. Well…it matters and our intentions often come from a deceitful heart.

    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    We have listened to lies.

    Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

    To obey is better than sacrifice. Xmas is not obedience. It is a false sacrifice. The sin of witchcraft, which rebellion emulates, is not exactly a small matter.

    How is it that the ungodly embrace this so-called “Christian” holiday? Maybe because it is really of the world.

    1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    This thing called Xmas is of the world to the max. Stop being unequally yoked with nonbelievers and come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing…then you will be received and be YHWH’s children that inherit His kingdom.

    2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
    18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    It is high time that we cleanse ourselves and walk in holiness in the fear of YHWH instead of fearing to break away from man’s false ideas.

    Pr 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.


  17. Hi Daniel,

    Yes, Larson finds the correlation between the Magi and the offering of the gifts, Scripture says He was a “toddler” at that time, and I don’t see any reason to reject Dec. 25th as that time. Wonder how it got defined as His birth though? There is the tradition of Rosh Hashanna that may in fact be linked with the December date too, is what I think. As the early Church moved further from their Jewish roots, regrettably they stopped using the Hebrew for Passover and took up Easter and in distancing themselves from the original, left off the prophetic importance of the Feast Days too.

    To say that the shepherds would have only been out at night to help with calving is just speculation though. There are natural shelters for the sheep that were available to them and keeping sheep often involves being on the move in all seasons to find pasture for them. The fact that there was a group of shepherds spoken of leads me to think perhaps the herd wasn’t that small and there is the “census” at hand, with a large influx of people coming to be counted from all over. They would have made money on travelers needing sleeping arrangements and therefore wouldn’t have housed the sheep under cover of their first floor, which was common, but, would have rented the space out and made extra money from them. Remember that Joseph and Miriam were given what was called the “manger” to sleep in. I think that may have been where the sheep and shepherds would normally have been housed—“if” the sheep were even local. It could also be that the shepherds were away from home making use of natural caves and sheepcotes as they were pasturing the sheep and goats, they could have been merely camped out with them that night. Of course, that’s mere speculation too! 🙂

  18. We can believe that if we knew what time the shepherds were visited by the angel (Luke 2) we could know when the birth of Christ was, but I believe there is much more to be learned as to the time from studying the wise men and the star.

  19. Ray,
    The visitation of the wise men did not coincide with his birth (Scripture says Jesus was a toddler by the time they arrived).

  20. Though the arrival by the wise men was not at the exact time of the Lord’s birth, there is a lot to be learned about the time of the star they followed, what it was, how often it was seen, and how it traveled across the sky, it’s course and time being something that can be tracked, and it appears it was not the only sign in the sky at the time which appeared by the stars which God made to tell of seasons and be for signs.

  21. From the Michael Heiser link (post 14) I noticed him talk about the retrograde motion of the king planet which he said happened on Dec 25th of the year the wise men were following it, something I must have missed the first time I watched this.
    If all this information pans out (and I already know so much of it does among many witnesses) it really is amazing.

  22. Here I find an interesting thing to think about:

    On Christmas cards, do we see more often wise men following a star, or shepherds and an angel?

  23. Here I find an interesting thing to think about:

    It is obvious that doctrines and traditions of men started Xmas and the inaccuracy floods every aspect of it. Inaccuracy is not truth. Because it is of the world, we will never be able to restore it to the truth.

    If we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth, we must abandon Xmas all together.


  24. Thanks Jon for your confirmation. Amy, I stand corrected on my comments about suicide rates at this time of the year. Even a dinosaur like me can still learn.
    And then there’s YOU, Nicholas. Are you kidding me? WOW!!! A real honest to goodness REPLACEMENT THEOLOGIST. Nicholas, which Jesus are you worshipping? The one in the Bible honoured Chanukah. He was and is and will be when he returns a Torah observant Jew. And he KNEW his scriptures and they were in the O.T. Fancy that.
    “The NEW has replaced the OLD”, NEW ORDER? I don’t know whose been teaching you these things, but my friend you need to study ROMANS 11 in it’s entirety. Better yet, contact Dr. Brown. This kind of thinking is dangerous. I will pray for you that you receive proper teaching on this matter.

  25. Christmas is an attempt at remembrance, with one calendar of general population use replacing another of Jewish Nation population use at the time of the birth of Yeshua. Remembrance? Yes, for reflection. This is not wrong, even if not directly correlative to the actual calendar of reference around 2000 years ago. Reflection on the phenomena of an appointed Savior’s birth and its lasting significance tops the list. God intervening in human history and on His created earth. The significance of the Plan, the heart behind it, and its purpose. How is that Pagan, if acknowledging the intervention of God in human history? Each nation and culture too will remember its related history interfacing with the Plan, and its humble origins “in the fullness of time”. Lights, trees, decorations, exchanging gifts, blessing others, caring, sharing, and honoring the originator…all, can be part of honoring the Plan with relevant remembrance.

  26. Should Christians work on their own car or take it into the shop?
    Should Christians ride the bus to work, walk, or ride a bike?
    Should Christians wear short sleeve shirts or wear insulated parkas?

    These kind of question are much like the question
    Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

    I believe we all should remember the birth of Christ. I believe all Christians everywhere should do that without exception.

    But what does the scripture say about celebrating Christmas? Does it say anything at all about it one way or another?

    Isn’t it like the celebration of other days? What does the Bible say about that?

    Does the Bible specifically command a Christian to celebrate any specific day? I know of no specific command in the Bible that tells a Christian to celebrate any day specifically.

    So does the Bible tell us how to celebrate days?
    Does it tell us how to work on our cars or take them into the shop for repair? Does it tell us how to ride a bus, a bicycle, or how to walk?

    I think it tells us a lot about how to walk.

  27. The Bible tells us which days are YHWH’s holy days. It tells us not to worship YHWH the way the heathen worship their gods. It tells us not to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers. It tells that the traditions and ideas of men turn us from the truth.

    When we ignore or even downplay what YHWH has commanded concerning His holy days and invent a day of our own or adopt a day of the heathen, we offer rebellion instead of obedience…witchcraft instead of humble devotion.

    You can worship false gods any way you want, but YHWH seeks those that worship Him in spirit and in truth. Xmas is not truth. YHWH specified when and how His holy days are to be celebrated. To do otherwise is not according to His Spirit and not according to truth.


  28. Ray wrote:
    “Does the Bible specifically command a Christian to celebrate any specific day? I know of no specific command in the Bible that tells a Christian to celebrate any day specifically.”

    Messiah said “EVERY WORD”:

    Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Paul wrote:

    1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    Zechariah wrote:

    Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
    18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    Moses wrote:

    Ex 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)

    De 16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

    Jeremiah wrote:

    Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.


  29. Ray wrote:
    “I think it tells us a lot about how to walk.”

    Very true…

    1 Pet 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
    22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

    He did no sin. We also are to do no sin. What is sin?

    1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    So we are not supposed to transgress YHWH’s law which,by the way, tells us to keep YHWH’s feasts instead of the heathens.

    How are we to walk?

    1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    We are to walk as He walked…keeping His Father’s commandments…keeping His feasts/holy days and not inventing our own kind of worship. Do we really know Him or not?


  30. Will we bow to the Pope (the supposed holy father) and keep Xmas or will we bow to the real Holy Father and keep His feasts?

  31. None need to ‘bow to the Pope’ in order to keep Christ Mass, and none need to keep the ‘real Holy Father’ of the Son ‘feasts of Israel’ under the ‘law’ given the Nation of Israel leading up to the ‘birth’ of the Christ ‘child’ (who ‘did no sin’ (‘Tree of Life Version’ He “committed” no sin) even though He was born in very same likeness, and was very same ‘partaker’, of our very same ‘sinful flesh’ from fallen first Adam, ‘Eve’, even as our own EXAMPLE for to follow throughout this ‘initial life ALSO IN THE FLESH’, AND OF THE ‘NEXT LIFE’ ALSO ‘IN THE FLESH’ (Peter addressing ONLY the also ‘twice born’ in this initial only ‘footstool’, of His, of which Peter is also ‘twice born’ and saying we also can enter into ENTIRE sanctification by taking up OUR OWN cross and following Him as He went to His OWN cross in very same likeness of very same ‘sinful flesh’ of fallen first Adam, and drink of that same ‘cup’ of ENTIRE

  32. If someone such as a pastor commands people to keep certain holidays as a requirement of the law, or teaches them that they must keep certain holidays as a requirement in order to fulfill the law, then he is walking contrary to the law, and not listening to Christ. He’s not loving God nor honoring the work of Christ as he ought to.

  33. Say what you want Ray. The Bible says differently.

    The Pope and the Catholic church command its followers to be at “Christ Mass.” Those that think to celebrate Xmas are partakers of false religion and doctrines of men.

    If someone refuses to keep YHWH’s law or teaches men so they will be least in the kingdom at best. At worst they do not know YHWH and will be told by Messiah, “I never knew you.”

    Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Mt 7:21 not every one who says to me, lord, lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he that does the will of my father who is in the heavens.
    22 many shall say to me in that day, lord, lord, have we not prophesied through *thy* name, and through *thy* name cast out demons, and through *thy* name done many works of power?
    23 and then will I avow unto them, I never knew you. depart from me, workers of lawlessness.

    1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law…
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth (continues to break the law) hath not seen him, neither known him.


  34. Bo, Even a babe in Christ knows the apostle Paul never commanded any Christian to keep a feast day, for such would have been contrary to the gospel he preached.

  35. Ray,

    I guess you just cannot read plain English…or do not want to understand what it does say. You can continue to make up your own religion or accept what the Bible says. It is up to you. You can be great, least, or not in the kingdom depending on what you decide.

    1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Mt 7:21 not every one who says to me, lord, lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he that does the will of my father who is in the heavens.
    22 many shall say to me in that day, lord, lord, have we not prophesied through *thy* name, and through *thy* name cast out demons, and through *thy* name done many works of power?
    23 and then will I avow unto them, I never knew you. depart from me, workers of lawlessness.

  36. Ray,

    Any young child that has learned to read can understand the above passages. Any supposed babe or old man “in Christ” that cannot accept the obvious has little hope maturing in Messiah.


  37. Ray,

    Any Christian that thinks that YHWH’s feast/holy days are “contrary to the gospel” that Paul, Peter, John, and Messiah Himself preached is ignorant of the gospel or the holy days of YHWH…or both.


  38. I do not condemn man made calendars. Our man made calendar is good for getting to our doctor appointments on the right day. It is completely off for knowing when our appointments with YWHH are.

    The idea that 12/25 has any meaning to YHWH is absurd. It does not matter what it means to us. He did not invent keeping track of time according to a solar calendar. His real feasts are according to His solilunar calendar. The date of Messiah’s birth would be according to the Biblical calendar and would of necessity be on a different day every year according to our man made calendar. Should we ask YHWH to scrap His calendar and appointment schedule and submit to ours? Where is the honor of the true king in that? If we do that, who is really in charge? A bunch of spoiled brats…that’s who.

    When we use our man made system, including our calendar, to invent a religious holiday, we err from the truth. Especially when we ignore YWHH’s commanded Holy Days. When we offer sacrifice on our day in our way instead of obeying what He commanded on His days and in His ways, we slap Him in the face. This kind of rebellion is idolatry and witchcraft according to 1 Samuel 15.

    Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    There is a reason that YHWH’s altar is supposed to be made of uncut stones. YHWH does not want us sculpting religion for ourselves. He does not want the glory of man involved. Xmas is full of man’s glory and manufactured stones. It is not the altar of YHWH.

    Ex 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

    If we are going to build a new altar to YHWH, it has to be an unpolluted altar. Xmas is a new altar…something that was never used to worship YHWH by the writers of scripture. If it is not polluted, nothing is. When we add our cute lights and dead trees and presents to each other and church services and use the calendar that we have sculpted we have polluted the altar. And the offerings we offer on it are thus polluted. Why should we decry the pollutions of our societies’ xmas altars? They, at least, are doing the same thing that we do…just with a whole heart.

    1Ki 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.

    We would do well to tear down our polluted altars and rebuild YHWH’s unpolluted altars like Elijah did. Then we may just have YHWH answer by fire instead of us yelling and screaming at the top of our lungs for our god to answer us. Maybe we should repent and start doing YHWH’s feast days according to His calendar.

    Did you ever notice that the New Testimony uses YHWH’s calendar as time references even when addressed to the “gentile churches.” There was a Roman calendar in those days. Why didn’t they go by that? Food for thought…don’t you think?


  39. Hi ron levine,

    As many of the usual contributors here know, I am Catholic. So, obviously, my perspective represents the Catholic viewpoint. As a matter of fact, I identify as a Traditionalist Catholic.

    I just want to be clear about some things, for your benefit, and for the benefit of others: I do not believe that the term ‘replacement theology’ is accurate, but, for convenience, I tend to employ it to describe my beliefs. I believe that the Church (that is, the Roman Catholic Church) is the fulfillment of the ‘type’ which the nation of Israel prefigured in the Bible. Christ, the King / High Priest of the New Israel, is the head of his body, which is the Church. The pope is his vicar, his steward, until he returns. I have said in previous posts that I do not believe that the Jewish people are Israel. Well, I mean that in a corporate sense. An individual Jewish person is an Israelite by blood, yes, but, as St. John the Baptist reminded us, this avails nothing, for God can make any stone a son of Abraham. The Jews corporately are ethically linked to the people of the Covenant, the faithful Israelites, who became followers of Jesus, but, today, those Jews who reject the Messiah remain outside the Israel of God. A New Covenant has been made, which brings the gentiles into the fold. There is now a new people of God, the people of the Messiah. In God’s sight, this is the only lineage which matters. Now, I have no problem when people express their support for the modern nation-state of Israel, politically, but I do not regard it as a continuation of the Biblical polity.

  40. Continuing from previous:

    Moreover, a Christian should not celebrate the feasts of the Old Testament. To do so would be to participate in rites which merely stood in place for Christ, who is the end of the Torah (that is, its goal and fulfillment), in anticipation of his coming. Since Christ has already come, since the Messiah has already been revealed to Israel, we are not to be reactionary and continue in a system which has reached its completion. Christ gave us a new system: the Eucharistic Banquet. This, the passover of the Lamb, this is what God commanded us to celebrate, the commemoration of the Passion and Death of his Son, until he comes again.

    Also, I take issue with the notion that Christ, when he comes again, will be a “Torah observant Jew.” Christ was born as a man, born of a woman, born under the Law, yes, but Christ is also God Almighty. The Son of Man is the Lord of the Sabbath. When he returns, he will come in glory, and we will experience a transcendent reality. There will be ushered in a New Heaven and a New Earth. Torah observances have been fulfilled in the Messiah. You seem to be referring to a carnal Messiah, and not to Christ Jesus.

  41. One more thing: The Jewish nation as it stands today is under judgment, and even Dr. Brown has expressed this viewpoint, and the Synagogue, although still a sacred people, remain in desolation and destitution until it accepts the Lord Jesus. The Jews will enter Israel, which is the Catholic Church, when they covert, but, until then, they are not the nation of Israel, but rather Israelites in exile. This is the traditional Catholic teaching, although the Church today has in some measure shyed away from this theology for ecumenical reasons.

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