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All we also from Adam, Adam’s ‘Eve’ have 4 lines, except Jesus of virgin birth (His only 2 lines from Mary’s mother and Mary’s father are given in both gospels)
Did Dr. Brown ever answer the question about Job? lol I thought I listened to the whole thing, but didn’t catch it. 🙂 If someone could give me the timestamp that would be much appreciated!
I listen to someone teach on marriage and divorce. He went though the bible from what God said all the way to what Paul said. Bottom line…only death can permit you to remarry, and that unfaithfulness is not a reason to divorce. Only death can break a marriage vow.
I was married to a pastor for almost 20 years. After 7 years of marriage he committed adultery. I forgave him and we were able reconcile. Then 10 years later he commits adultry again. We seperated and he filed for a divorce. He lost credentials to the fellowship we were associated with. The Chruch split and he continued to pastor independently. After 2 year, we were divorced and he married the women he has an affair with.
I have 3 kids and I am not see anyone; however, I would like to get married one day if the right came along. What does the bible say concerning reasons to divorse and remarriage.
Sheila (or anyone else),
Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, stating:
“Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”
My question is… What temple does this speak of?
I’m a bit confused because this letter was written around 50 c.e., hence Herod’s temple was still standing at the time. It is hard for me to understand that Paul was not talking about the current temple, but that he would actually be referring to another one that would be built after the present one would be destroyed.
It is worth noting that the Bible never refers to these “brothers” and “sisters” as Mary’s offspring. It is also worth noting that Christ gives John to his mother at the cross, which would strongly imply that she had no other children to take care of her. Even today, in most languages and cultures, “brother” simply means “kinsman.”
John’s mother, standing next to Mary, when he was instructed to behold your mother (re: Mary, full sister of Salome, mother of ‘sons of thunder’, including older son James, who after 10 yrs., a second martyr from ‘Antipas’ influence over their region of Galilee, from where both were called, made clean, born again, by the Words spoken by Jesus unto them, which they both had gladly then received). HIS brothers, sisters AS ALL were scattered when THE FIRST BORN SON of Mary was crucified, were with their mother Mary, aunt Salome, James, JOHN in the house of the ‘upper room’ 50 days later (but not necessarily all in ‘UPPER’ room where a quorum of 7 of the 11 disciples out of Galilee had called for public gathering according to laws of ISRAEL, awaiting THE PROMISE to come, as in obedience for “to tarry” in “Jerusalem” to receive power from ‘on HIGH’ UNTO true followers ‘MARTYRDOM’ from First Adam “earthiness”). Power for to ‘take up their OWN cross, and follow HIM unto drinking of that same ‘cup’ of ENTIRE sanctification (setting apart entirely from this world) from any kingdom rule or reign, or future ‘gazing’ into heaven, for a return of Mary’s first born, EXCEPT as in avenging flames of fire by HIS angelic saints, WHO HAD SEPARATED them from HIM entirely, in a brightness of angelic cloud, BEFORE His ascending from this tiny foostool ‘of His’, before these very same ‘Eleven’, minus their women, children
As to which Temple (at time Paul’s letters to Thess. written) they knew of Jerusalem and Temple still standing BELOW, also Jerusalem with TEMPLE standing ABOVE this footstool. ‘Man of sin’ spoken of by Daniel became identified as 7th Herod about 16 yrs. later (when resurrected, this man identified, fulfills fully Daniel’s prophesy in ABOVE Jerusalem Temple, Daniel will then have his ‘lot’ in those days, leading up to what then happens in resurrections, AFTERWARDS the ending of ‘first resurrection’, of that final thousand, of 7 millenniums, dealing with Adam’s fall in his “earthiness” by ‘LAST ADAM’S NEW, now fully perfected ONE NEW MAN, eternal now in the heavens
I don’t believe we can rightly say that all Christians hold to the view that there is one God who is triune in nature, for there are Christians who oppose this view, (though they believe and will tell you that God is one) and they are born again, born from above and manifest the holy Spirit, and do speak in tongues.
Those who believe that God would never give the gift of the new birth to a non Trinitarian believer in Jesus, I believe are wrong about that.
Judging from the question in context, we could say that Paul thought of the Lord’s return as being eminent, but, I honestly don’t think so. Paul knew his Scriptures entirely too well and I feel he must have known of those things within Scripture that would have had to be in place in order for that to happen.
There was an incident with Hadrian setting up a complex to worship Jupiter on the temple mount, because of the various uprising of the Jews, in which he wrote up laws against reading the Torah and circumcision wanting to rid them of worship after the Bar Kokhba revolt was put down. Some say he put the statue of Jupiter up, together with a statue of himself on a horse, but others say he didn’t. I’ll have to study on that some more. Seems to me he did.
Hadrian had 10 most prominent Rabbis killed, one being R. Akiva. He killed upwards of 80,000 people after that revolt and because he had claimed the temple mount for Jupiter and himself, calling it the Aelia Capitolina and barred Jews from entering, the diaspora of the Jews began at that time.
What Paul and Danile tell us is that the last man of sin will exalt himself above all that is “called” god, as in statues of the pagans, and he will call himself God. It also says he will “stand in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” There must be a temple to stand in otherwise it wouldn’t be true.
That’s what makes’s me think that a temple will be rebuilt and the future antichrist will enter it and profess to be God. Don’t know how else to read it.
The Day of the Lord
2 Now regarding the arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily shaken from your composure or disturbed by any kind of spirit or message or letter allegedly from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, and as a result he takes his seat in God’s temple, displaying himself as God. 5 Surely you recall that I used to tell you these things while I was still with you. 6 And so you know what holds him back, so that he will be revealed in his own time. 7 For the hidden power of lawlessness is already at work. However, the one who holds him back will do so until he is taken out of the way, 8 and then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will destroy by the breath of his mouth and wipe out by the manifestation of his arrival. 9 The arrival of the lawless one will be by Satan’s working with all kinds of miracles and signs and false wonders, 10 and with every kind of evil deception directed against those who are perishing, because they found no place in their hearts for the truth so as to be saved. 11 Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. 12 And so all of them who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil will be condemned.
I’ve got to get busy but will check in later and try to elaborate further. There’s lot’s more to be said about it.
The Abomination of Desolation, though, always refers to idolatry.
And, as TEACHINGS (not law contained within) of Torah, we can understand EVEN that which clearly delivered pre- appearance of Messiah’s children of Israel, from PLAGUE, of literal serpent bites, EVEN “looking” upon HIM, on HIS later coming for to die on HIS own cross voluntarily, can become one’s idolatry, even as a believer in MESSIAH, millions (myriads) of “Jews”, in Jerusalem here below, having then “believed” afterwards, of HIS own cross, “looked” upon this truly historical event, which has taken place on this footstool, NEVER AGAIN ever to be repeated on this, or upon any other ‘footstool’ ABOVE past, present, FUTURE (when myriads upon myriads still call for HIM to come down from HIS now FAR ABOVE ALL HEAVEN OF HEAVENS ABOVE for to leave HIS NOW eternal mercy seating, including all RESURRECTED, both of Jews also all Gentiles, of human ‘souls’, IN THE RESURRECTION ‘OF THE FLESH’, unto the next life promised FROM this initial only introduction to eternal existence on this ‘initial’ only tiny footstool, place of HIS own cross ONCE and for all time and eternity) and as those ‘children of ISRAEL’ made the ‘serpent’ on the ‘pole’ unto IDOLOTRY (so is this a TEACHING from Torah of what the ‘myriads’ can, will, also TURNING one time CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST into idolatrous worship, TEACHING unto the promised world wide HARLOTRY on this initial only footstool’of HIS’)
I broke my rule and answered while not even fully awake! I conflated two separate incidences. One was concerning Emperor Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus – Caligula, the other was Hadrian. It was Caligula who attempted to set up a statue of himself in the Holy of Holies, which would have fulfilled the prophecy for the most part, not physically, but, by proxy, I suppose. I think the future man of sin will physically enter the temple. It seems Caligula was thwarted so that the prophesy would not be fulfilled before it’s set time. The temple was already destroyed when Hadrian set up pagan worship there.
…and I have no idea now what I had edited out to end up with, “but others say he didn’t.” Crazy person! 🙂
I don’t know how some could end up believing that all the prophecies Jesus and the writers of the New Testament gave us have already come to pass. Namely, the Preterists.
Sorry about that!
Thank you for your thoughts on the passage in question. I have read commentary pointing to the possibility of a present day ruler of Paul’s day from a Greco-Roman background as you spoke of. I guess Paul could have had his temple in mind, but overall it just doesn’t fully set with me.
I do take into account that he was speaking prophetically and seeing ahead, but when measuring “The anti-christ” as setting himself up in the temple as G-d just seems to run against the logic of Paul looking beyond the second temple that was presently standing upon the writing 2 Thess, which just makes me hesitate to believe that he already had that one destroyed and a third one being built.
Don’t get me wrong, I do understand the principle of partial and even a duel fulfillment with some prophetic utterances, such as Joel’s prophecy of G-d pouring out is Spirit in the last days. In any case, when reading it all in context, Paul does tie it into the Lord’s second coming, so that part cannot be denied.
It’s not hard for me to believe that Paul knew the temple was destined to be destroyed, sooner rather than later. He heard the warnings of Jesus from the Apostles, of course, and he uses language that certainly agrees with him having knowledge that the temple of his day would soon to be thrown down. His words when speaking of the change in the priesthood, the covenant, the sacrifices and all those pertaining to the old economy of worship are summed up in Hebrews 8:13 “Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” Remember Jesus prophesied about the destruction of the temple because the nation had rejected their Messiah? That was common knowledge to them, it was just a matter of when. Even that was known, “when you see Jerusalem surrounded with armies, then flee to the mountains—immediately!”
I found it hard to accept at first that a third temple would be built and then desecrated, but, there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled in Both Testaments that only make sense if that’s the case. I’ll see if I can find my word pad document notes on the third temple. I’ve been thinking on it myself for several years and I can envision a Muslim Calaphate allowing the Jews to rebuild the temple–for their own purposes though. Somewhat complicated to explain it in a short paragraph. Have you read anything about the Muslim Mahdi? He fits the final antichrist figure very well. There are a couple of books I’d recommend if you get the chance to read them, one is by Joel Richardson, “The Islamic Antichrist.” Another is by Walid Shoebot, “God’s War on Terror.” I agree with most of what they outline in their books, but, I think both of them are missing the Palestinian element as key to the end time scenario. I’ll have to get some of their newer books as they may have revised them by now.
Another thing is that Paul knew his Scriptures and he got further revelation from Jesus, being caught up to the third Heaven, “where he heard things which were unlawful to speak of.” Sure do wish he’d passed it on—or maybe he did when he spoke of the antichrist setting himself up in the temple right before Jesus returns. And he spoke of the “harpazo” (catching away of the saints) that no one else had known of. Lot’s of new insights came to us by way of Paul’s revelations and meetings with Jesus.
And, like you said, the desecration happens just prior to Jesus returning. While it seems highly unlikely to us right now that the temple would ever be able to be built, when they lay that first stone I’ll be on my knees praying!!
One may want to include a book, i.e. Randall Price, “The Temple, & Bible Prophesy” (without following ‘prophesy’ part). The ‘dimensions’ of Temple described, last 8 Chapters of Ezekiel (letting us know what is ahead in literal Temple, including it’s given out ‘dimensions’ for our own edification, involving both our’s, Daniel’s, ‘man of sin’ also promised RESURRECTION “in the flesh” from down here, as to be ‘included in LAST DAYS’, including already described ‘last of the Herod dynasty’ personality, whom said to Paul in his chains: “almost” you think, you have persuaded me ? (whom Jesus said would be identified ‘to HIS OWN’ as was ‘spoken of’ by the Prophet Daniel)
In case some not aware, Marcus, 7th, final Herod, negotiated with Jews, mid 66 A.D., ‘standing in their Temple’ at Jerusalem, taking away ‘their daily sacrifices’ in exchange for cancellation back Temple taxes unto Rome (according to non-revised history) including then ‘Protractor’s efforts’ much had brought upon ‘Jews’ then, their initial first half tribulation, ‘LEADING UP’ to last half, 3, + half yr. ‘great’ promised initial tribulation only unto Israel (in also ‘their’ own initial only introduction of ISRAEL in ‘initial only’ introduction to eternal existence somewhere in vast never ending entire material Universe, of both it’s wheat AND tares separations, even unto destruction of Temple at Jerusalem, but should never be described by some, nor anyone, this trib. as being COMPLETE FINALALITY of a sure coming future, never before, nor ever again sure FINALE TRIBULATION, in which most ancient of Dragons is loosed, for a ‘short time’ IN HEAVEN’S FUTURE, while these heavens down here already on REAL ‘all human soul life ending’ fire, making ready for ‘tossing DOWN’ of Satan, and his angels FROM HEAVEN to this footstool) and this future resurrected ‘MAN’ of sin then destroyed in his own resurrected ‘flesh’, by the “breath of OUR SAVIOR’s mouth” (speaking of HIS ‘WORDS’ given while HE yet on this tiny footstool, & while Herodian dynasty yet ruling, and later Paul, was sent to this ‘last Herod’ for a ‘witness’ of the ‘gospel’ of the RESURRECTION given to Marcus ‘personally’, along with his ‘sister’ who stood above the Temple when her brother STOOD IN THE TEMPLE cancelling the ‘daily sacrifices’ mid trib. of ISRAEL and those in a majority who were Jews but not of ISRAEL ‘who had been in bondage in Egypt’ LIKE those of Esau, having publically without opposition claimed ‘never in bondage to ANYONE’ as was the ISRAELITE, ancestry of Jesus
I do have Joel Richardson’s book on the Islamic Antchrist. I found his concept very interesting, and insightful, but overall found it to be a bit far reaching. He reason lies in the fact that Islam is a radically monotheistic faith; hence to have an Islamic messianic figure come and sit as G-d in the temple would not wholistically be accepted by that religion, in my opinion. Notwithstanding, I don’t completely reject the notion, but the one that will influence the world and even deceive, if possible, even the elect (Chrisitans) would be doubtful; however, I do understand that when the time and season is right, many things can happen.
Thank you for your thoughts on 2 Thess. I do understand that Paul knew that the temple would be destroyed, but it had just came to mind if he was referring to the event happening in reference to the one that he knew existed, or was he looking beyond that one to a third yet to be built. I am not a preterest (and I actually didn’t even know of that theological position until Dr. Brown highlighted it), but I can see that my thoughts would lean towards that direction.
However, your insights do help, as the writer of Hebrews (I believe to be Paul) did see it fading away, and with this in mind, does bring together the idea that he (and the N.T. writers) did have in mind a temple beyond that which currently stood in their day.
In the present state of how buildings have been erected in Israel, it will be quite interesting to see how the temple will be built, which will intail the removal of the Islamic Dome of the Rock, before that can happen. Interesting indeed!
Chapter 40 of Ezekiel makes clear measurements which this earthly Prophet of Israel, was for to set his heart to ALL that he is THEN being shown in existence, at that time, where his vision took him, upward, for to SEE by looking downward from a very high mountan (by ‘man’ whose appearance was like ‘bronze, who held a measuring rod) and for ALL that he THEN saw, to report what he sees, also all what he hears, to all to the house of Israel here below. Ezekiel had ‘the hand of Adonai’ upon him, WHO actually brought him ‘up there’ to see, also to hear EXISTING city under construction THEN, with existing measurements at TIME, in actual history, of this tiny footstool of Ezekiel’s initial only introduction, to all, of eternal existence, somewhere in G-d’s ever expanding, never ending, MATERIAL entire Universe
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