Dr. Brown reviews his recent debate with Pastor Brian Zahnd on penal substitutionary atonement (PSA) and takes your theological and biblical calls. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: At the cross, justice and mercy flow together where God declares His righteousness and His compassion at one and the same time.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: To quote the words of Watchman Nee, “The penalty of my sin is death; yet the Lord Jesus suffered death for me; therefore, I have died in Him.”
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I drove 600 miles to IHOP heard this debate live and bought a hard cover Queer thing book signed. I was tired from my weekend, I can only imagine your weekend as you did 6 straight lectures, flew home, and then accross the world. How do you do it?
3:16 for G-d IN THIS MANNER loved
3:17 (in same MANNER loved this world) did NOT send HIS Son into this world to ‘condemn’ this,
but (instead) this entire world might be saved BY THIS MANNER in which G-d loved….
(therefore Anselm’s satisfaction philosophy of ‘theory’ IN PLACE of BIBLICAL ‘ransom’, not ransom payment) but MESSIAH was HIMSELF Biblically being ransom (no theory, but fact) voluntarily leaves us not choice but ATONEMENT is not carried forward in NEW Covenant (being part, partial of OLD only) while RANSOM fact is carried forward from OLD to the NEW. Under ‘satisfaction’ theory only, not fact, those who reject the cross indeed ARE condemned (which goes completely against IN THE VERY “MANNER” G-d loved this tiny world and footstool ONLY ‘of HIS’ !
Did we deserve to die on that cross.
I would actually answer no to that- The only reason I would say NO is that we are not worthy of being an unblemished sacrifice to be lifted up – we can not be extolled, exulted, and glorified like Jesus was. We only deserve a nondescript death. Jesus was actually in death honored, glorified, and lauded in an act that only the actual Messiah – the only Messiah could go through. G_d does not reason like us, may we bless and praise him for this most incredible act in history!
If one were sitting in Zahnds mega church and listen to him liberalize/humanize/trivialize G_d, the message is difficult to decipher without a contrast of theology such as in the debate. Liberalism in theology is a quiet danger that you do not want to step into. A snake that will hit you in the heel.
Sin is like lots of chocolate to a man on a diet to lose weight. He loves the idea of eating it. He knows the pleasure of eating it, but wisdom tells him that it’s a trap and that he must control himself. He knows that if he is wise, he will escape from dealing with a lot of trouble.
It would be extremely uncomfortable to attend regularly ANY church, which goes against Sola Scriptura, uses terms ‘Jesus came down here for to “re-found” this world’. Last Adam calls for meaning “LAST” (not any new, nor ANY ‘continuance of Adam’ whatsoever). “Re-found” is opposite of GOOD NEWS (GOSPEL) which culminates in JESUS CHRIST leaving here saying “I have GONE AWAY (FAR FROM here) for to prepare a place for you (UP) there” (NOT down here, NOT in any way on this tiny footstool ‘of MINE’, which from it’s very foundations was always MADE expendable UNTO a fully eternally planned out maximum confinement when ‘Devil, his angels’ are tossed out of heaven UNTO here, where meaning of MY footstool, where all both F-ther’s, MINE enemies are separated from the righteous, even also from those still intermediaries, where angelics with SACRED “FEET” keep them on eternally rebellious necks, UNTIL first heaven, FIRST earth are passed on into complete NEGLECT, on chosen pathway to ‘blackness of darkness’ FOREVER (before it’s foundations were ever laid past, unto ‘densities’ of what are now called ‘black holes’ within an ever expanding never ending MATERIAL Universe)
I love chocolate so of course I am disappointed to hear it is like sin. ha
B Stone, Isn’t church still an organization for people to at least to organize to help our communities. I am not sure we can subscribe to your view of a church, people have so many different needs and gifts. It is a community that can be lead by a Shepard to organize a Godly mission. What do you think?
“..on this rock..” was not stated at/on lower Mt. Zion nor on Mt. Calvary (Mt. Moriah) rather was on Northern Israel Rock known highest of Mt. Zion (Sion, aka: Mt. Hermon, gateway INTO heaven, entrance point of ‘angels’ from heaven past since antiquity known as ‘naval’ of this world, within mouth of a ‘Serpent’) when Peter, disciples were standing on that broken off ‘smaller’, still very LARGE stone’ from Mt. Zion, where ‘gates of hell’ were ancient, also Israel, history, appeasements were made, also by Giants (both before, after Noah’s flood, where ‘grapes’ were once seen by Israel’s spies as rather larger than life) and those waters were turned into blood sacrifice, also using ‘grapes’ turning water into blood, to appease gods below ‘Hell’s gates’, JESUS SAID “ON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH” (leading up to HEAVENS gates) where HIS F-ther IN HEAVEN will give to HIM, HIS reward BRIDE, in which “whomever is (continually being) given ME by MY F-ther IN HEAVEN, I will in no wise cast them out”.
It’s good to spend a lot of time at the cross, as long as we are serious about it. There are so many aspects to our saving grace of God which abounded to us there.
I remember how in a cult we listened to hours of teaching tapes, and one segment dealt with the matter of how many were crucified with Jesus. Though we got the number wrong, we spend so much time there, we all got saved, the proof being that we all spoke in tongues at the end of the class.
I thank God for the amount of time we spend in the gospels at the cross, even though some of our theology was wrong.
Yes, Jesus died as our substitute because of our sins, according to the will of God.
Yeshua died as (Sola Scriptura) substitute while in temptation from ‘birth’ to death, ‘similitude’ of ‘sin’ of ‘first Adam’ (called “earthy”, in “earthiness”) even also as under SIMILITUDE temptation of ours, ‘sin’ which so easily besets us all (from Adam), except DID NOT beset HIM ? He said all must drink of HIS same ‘cup’ of ‘entire’ EARTHY sanctification (entire ‘setting apart’ of, from, first Adam’s “EARTHINESS”). It is finished, comes only when HE had HIMSELF imbibed while having ‘taken up HIS own cross’ unto that ‘cup’ (bitterness, sedative, on ‘high holy day’ for HIM, HE then stated “I thirst”, after refusal to DO ‘THIS’ WILL OF HIS F-THER, of which HE sweat great drops of blood, ALSO over). Once drinking of that ‘cup’, NO TURNING BACK, no longer in any temptation to any form of ANY ‘re-founding’ (“re-found”) what first Adam’s fall had caused this tiny footstool ‘of HIS’).
Old Testament law language TEACHES, instructs (Torah) Israel, ‘scape goat’ was “added” to LAW ceremony. Azaz (‘strong’) for El (G-d) ‘strong’ mountain ‘victor’ for his G-d’. Therefore Christ the ‘Victor’ is by ‘ransom’ to free this one held captive due to no fault of his own (yet with the keys to death, hades, the grave). Named “Azazel” himself, alone, held those ‘keys’ over HADES, AS given him by his G-d. But relief coming from Christ, the Victor, via HIS OWN cross, in front of Prince, over all the Princes of this World, & early on ‘third day’ in Hades, keys were gladly exchanged. The one ‘SEED’ of the woman, would thus ‘bruise’ the heavenly entrenched ‘headship’, militarily over the Prince of this World (while the Prince of this World would only ‘bruise HIS heel’ (‘heel’ meaning those who only follow their LEADER militarily, ‘from a distance’, only).
Context given us by ‘gospel’, WHEN ‘LIFTED UP’ (first ‘lifting up ON, and not ‘from’, this tiny Footstool ‘of HIS’, first, on HIS OWN cross) HE would draw ‘ALL’ Princes of this World unto ME ! Also explains “chastisements” (by Princes, also their ‘minions’ of this Earth under them) of our ‘peace’ WAS UPON HIM on HIS cross (even as Serpent on Moses pole, drew all ‘minions’ sent by Princes of this World, which ‘plagued ISRAEL’ unto the RANSOM MADE in image only of a serpent of the plague, ‘lifted up’, in ‘bronze’, for reflection of the bright daylight SUN, IN IT’S GREAT BRIGHTNESS). Whosever looked, LIVED (were free from ‘plague’, from those ‘minions’ sent from those same ‘Princes of this World’ used by G-d to ‘chastise’, to ‘take by chastisement of ISRAEL’S peace’ AWAY, otherwise coming from their G-d WHO GAVE THEM THEIR LAW, unto EXCEEDINGLY sinful examples FOR Torah (teachings unto results of obedience vs. disobediences).
I John 5:12, those believING in HIS (Christ’s) first ‘lifting up’ from Earth “has life”, BUT those who NOW believING in HIS total lifting up from Earth, & by those angels, messengers, of so great of brightness (2 staying back to give that stern, exhorting, also ‘directional’ all the way to very end of this tiny FOOSTOOL, first to the ‘Eleven’, NOW IN PRINT, John being ‘one of them’, verse 11, John NOW includING himself) this NOW ‘testimony’ coming from G-d (F-ther of our Lord Jesus Christ) that G-d our F-ther is NOW giving us that ‘beyond’ life, but NOW “ETERNAL” life, from HEAVEN, this life in NOW in HIS SON (NOW at MY right hand, fully perfected, ETERNAL NOW, in the heavens as brand NEW, “ONE NEW MAN”, newly in eternal ‘form’, never before existed as before, seated NOW on NOW “eternal” MERCY SEATING in HEAVEN, just below MY seating above HIS left)