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Dr. Brown interviews Egyptian Christian leader Dr. Mark Christian , looks into Paul’s attitude towards the Law, and takes your Jewish-related calls. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
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Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The biggest thing for Paul is that Jew and Gentile in Jesus find unity, harmony, equality, oneness with God and one another.
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A distinction can be made between Jews who celebrated feasts in Judea, Temple at Jerusalem (as listed in Acts 2) and Jews whose ancestry had never once returned to Judea nor Jerusalem from both the Northern Tribes of Jacob’s dispersion and Southern of Jacob’s (yet who maintained their own ‘Synagogue’ within this sought after labor force & hire of the Roman World, who remained in their own chosen ‘ghetto’, under their own laws, separate and considered superior to Roman law, own ‘police force’, own use of LAW which seemed right unto them in their World of the already ‘dispersed’, ‘conquered’, over Temple ruins built over Jerusalem ruins) had considered the judgment of G-d, to WHOM were no longer worthy, many intermarriages, for to ever RETURN their “Land”, once “CHOSEN” unto Abraham (as to them once under their Prince Michael, ONCE PROMISED Abe by his faith in entrance, later by ISRAELITES into Land once ruled over by ‘their Prince’)? And, that whose ancestry as Jews had returned to JUDEA, including all from Abe as Jews, but referred to those whom Paul went as missionary, as no longer true to their Prince over the LAND, THEREFORE as Gentiles (but of their own Synagogue, NO LONGER referred to as true JEWS, EVEN THOUGH FROM ABRAHAM, a remnant also for sure of ancestry from Jacob’s Tribes OF ISRAEL, at the time of Paul
Well, darn, I wish I’d been able to catch today’s show. I’ll listen after it’s been posted.
Just wondering when this will be available for listening .
Thank you, Dr. Brown, for this topic! As I have been searching the scriptures regarding this subject, you confirmed what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me (a gentile) about Paul’s position on the law. I appreciate your ministry.
Brother Mike,
Great program on the Law. Well articulated as you brought sound balance and understanding in your presentaion. Your citations from biblical scholars to substantiate further background is noted as well.
I’d also also like to reference excellent books written by scholars specifically on Paul’s position of the Law that will substantiate what Dr. Brown has presented in further depth: The best which addresses this from a contextual approach is Frank Thielman, Paul and the Law. Others worth reading are Thomas Schreiner, The Law and Its Fulfullment; and N.T. Wright, The Climax of the Covenant
Shalom
The flow of thought that comes from the mind of Paul gains its understanding and comprehension through the culmination of his letters as a whole in light of its place with believing Gentiles. From them one discovers that he writes in a fashion that the Old Covenant laws do not have a binding requirement that one is to observe in order to be saved. This means that a Gentile does not have to live as a Jew and live under the social Sinaitic laws rendered to Moses. He is free to live as a Gentile and keep his identity because salvation is not by keeping the Mosaic law but through faith in Christ.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. (Romans 4:28)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. (Gal 2:16)
Paul, thus asked “What purpose then does the law serve?” He revealed that “It was added because of transgressions”… and “I would not have know sin except through the law.” (Gal3:19, Rom 7:7).
In light of this, sin is recognized as unknowingly breaking G-d’s law, while transgression is the willful disobedience of the known law of G-d; hence, the latter brings greater judgment through which Paul’s acknowledgement revealed that once his sins were brought to light, the commandment slew him.
Paul, from a specific position of the law recognizes that the Mosaic covenant had served its purpose in bringing to light the knowledge of sin, condemning it through the finished work of the cross, and makes it obsolete through the newly instituted Law of Christ.
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. (Gal 3:24-25)
But what of the Gentiles, are they expected to live as Jews and follow the ceremonial laws as delivered exclusively to them? This idea infuriated Paul because he saw a good work established in Galatia, but men crept in an sought to place a yoke upon the believing Gentiles in order to remain in the fold. His response to this was,
“You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.” (Gal 5:4-6)
“But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.” (Gal 4:9-11)
So we conclude that the external works of the law as rendered to Israel under the Mosaic Law are not required for Gentiles to keep in order to be saved – these are inclusive of dietary laws, clothing laws, tithing, Sabbath and new moon observances, circumcision, washings and feasts participation. Thus if a Gentile does not embrace all of these laws he is not kicked out of the New Covenant, and is not consigned to the burning flames of hell being reserved for him. To this position of the Law, Paul deemed as offensive and obsolete. This is a burden that he argued of which no one had a right to lay on believing Gentiles.
However, the apostle does make it clear that the law is not made void because of faith, and that it is holy, just and good. If the law has not been done away with, then how is it established? This answer is found in the Royal Law of love.
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” AND IF THERE IS ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW. (Rom 13:8-10)
So we come to see that all of the commandments (plural) that we are called to keep are subsumed and satisfied in the law of love. This stands as the moral standard as carried over from the Mosaic Law from which Jesus affirmed, as well as the other apostles.
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ “ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.”
New Testament and Pauline scholar, Frank Thielman, beautifully sums this up with the following:
“The era of the Mosaic law, then has come to an end. With its end has come the end of sin’s domination over the believer’s life. Gone too are circumcision, Sabbath observance and dietary regulations as boundary markers for the people of the covenant. This law and these boundary markers have been replaced with the “law of faith” and a sanctity defined by “the pattern of teaching” handed down to believers in the gospel. This new order has absorbed elements of the Mosaic law and so has some continuity with it, but the Sinaitic covenant as the sign of the election of God’s people and as the definitive guide to their sanctity has come to an end.”
Shalom
The WHOLE of the law is ‘forever’, even as ISRAEL also is also forevermore. The cross did not ‘end the law’, nor did it end THE PEOPLE CALLED “HIS OWN”, but it was ‘fulfilled’ by ONE man, WHILE HERE AMONGST ‘HIS OWN’, on this tiny FOOSTOOL ‘of HIS’, all the way from the dead TO HIS OWN full PERFECTION from those brief days of HIS OWN ‘partaking’ THE very SAME as we all, of very same likeness of very same ‘sinful flesh’ of first Adam’s FALL. Dispensations, G-d’s economy, times, seasons ALL, ARE SET by HIS/our F-ther in HEAVEN. The ending of ‘root and branch’ on any footstool, ‘COPY’ or ‘pattern’ of THAT WHICH IS TO BE USED ‘BY THE F-THER’, that which is TO BE GIVEN OUT FOREVER, remains ONLY in the hands of HIS/our F-ther IN HEAVEN.
Sheila,
b.j. wrote:
“The ending of ‘root and branch’ on any footstool, ‘COPY’ or ‘pattern’ of THAT WHICH IS TO BE USED ‘BY THE F-THER’, that which is TO BE GIVEN OUT FOREVER, remains ONLY in the hands of HIS/our F-ther IN HEAVEN.”
What does this mean, since you understand him?
Couldn’t help but think that this man must have had an especially rough time growing up around so much Islam, having the last name “Christian”.
I want to be careful to communicate the gospel as it ought to be communicated, as well as I am able, and I think we all who wish to live of the gospel and by the gospel, will want to do the same.
I’ve heard something about the word abolish on today’s program and I came across this verse:
Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
So is there any law of commandments contained in ordinances between me and God?
Because God is holy and his commandment were holy, there was always enmity between man and God.
Notice that Paul says that this enmity was abolished in the flesh of Jesus Christ.
He didn’t say that our sins were abolished here, and that sin was the enmity between us and God, though sin always will cause a condition of enmity between us and God.
And isn’t there a household of God which is in heaven? So should we think that in heaven right now, that there is a list of commandments contained in ordinances and a people who look at that list all the time and do all they can to keep that long list….or not?
Ray,
I’m also looking for the “correct” word to use concerning the law, which “is, but isn’t” abolished in Christ.
That elements of the law remained is evident but how does one say at the same time that it was “abolished” in Christ?
Also, concerning the offering for sin and the first covenant, Paul says also in Hebrews 8:
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
NIV
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
ESV
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
We know that with the dismantling of the sacrificial system there remains now no sacrifice for sin other than that of Christ, “once for all.”
The entire system of law and commandments did not bring life and we are not judged by it, so, what is the correct word to use concerning it?
No Christian worth his salt would think that the moral commandments have been done away with.
Brian, the scholar you sighted says things like:
“The era of the Mosaic law, then has come to an end.”
“This law and these boundary markers have been replaced with the “law of faith”…”
“…but the Sinaitic covenant as the sign of the election of God’s people and as the definitive guide to their sanctity has come to an end.”
The best way to describe it is as he says, “This new order has absorbed elements of the Mosaic law and so has some continuity with it..”
So, what do we say of “the law” and it’s place in the life of the believer, especially as it concerns the Gentiles, who were never given it to begin with?
Romans 8, “sending HIS own Son, in the likeness of ‘sinful FLESH’, and as a ‘sin offering’ condemned sin in the FLESH” (Tree of Life Version)
‘G-d was condemning sin in the FLESH’ (One New Man Version) WE THEREFORE MUST BE BEING JUDGED BY THE LAW precisely unto our FLESH (which is left behind here, while as Paul said just before this “WHO shall deliver me” from (not the FLESH, for he knew the ‘resurrection’ is also in the FLESH) but from this ‘hidden within natural living SOUL body’ which is in the middle of a war between his further hidden within ‘eternal SPIRITUAL body’ and his outer “TENT” of his flesh
It seems to me that in heaven, where the family of God is with the Lord, rather than them being read a list of ordinances to keep, they are in his presence and beholding his face, and receiving whatever it is that he wants them to know, (individually, I suppose) and in that there is much joy and peace.
I’m sure he’s teaching them, and interacting with them.
When I read Heb 8:12, I wonder why it is that the old covenant seems to be spoken of as being in the process of decaying (KJV) and also being ready to vanish away, because when I read Eph 2:15, it seems to say that the law, the old covenant was abolished in his flesh, which seemed to me to be saying that this was what was already passing away at the time of the Lord’s suffering on the cross was the old covenant, and when He said, “It is finished.”, that it was finished.
So how can it be that that which was finished, is yet passing away?…unless it’s in the process of passing away to those who are coming into the fullness of the new.
I suppose I could think of it as being gone and yet going, as the kingdom of heaven is here and yet still coming.
The ‘kingdom’ “WAS” near, NEVER here !
Bo,
The translation as I understand it is as follows:
The earth is God’s “footstool” as are the nations He will conquer through Messiah. The “pattern” shown to Moses was that of a “heavenly” one, the true being represented in Heavenly truths, of which salvation is bestowed on us as “eternal life” compared to that which was only temporary under the law of Moses. Jesus’ words to his disciples were that the time of restoration was in the “hands of His Father only.”
The day of judgement, whether that of the destruction of the temple in 70ad, or that yet future, has/will leave them neither “root nor branch.” This is taken from Mal 4:1
Mal 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the LORD of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
“The ending of ‘root and branch’ on any footstool, ‘COPY’ or ‘pattern’ of THAT WHICH IS TO BE USED ‘BY THE F-THER’, that which is TO BE GIVEN OUT FOREVER, remains ONLY in the hands of HIS/our F-ther IN HEAVEN.”
Did I get it right, b.j.?
And that the final judgment is forever.
Ray and b.j.,
That makes sense in that while we are now considered children of God, upon Christ’s return we will be changed from our earthly bodies of “flesh” into our “heavenly/spiritual” bodies and enter the Kingdom of God.
We are now, “being perfected” not that we already are.
I need to think on that some more.
Footstools, places of ‘threshing floors’, UNTIL heavens SUDDENLY on ‘real fire’, ENDING all soul life, from first man/woman (back to when created AT SAME TIME “together” world that “THEN” was, up to certainly includes all this World that “NOW is, from ‘Eve’, mother of all natural ‘living soul’ HIDDEN WITHIN bodies of ours to present). Where angels, however, sent of G-d, are to still continue ‘keeping’ their ‘sacred FEET’ (for HIS ‘feet’ shall stand) on ‘necks’ of G-d’s declared ETERNAL enemies, NO PLACE, ANYMORE found for repentance, in them ! Earth is a ‘footstool’, while HEAVEN is place of MY THRONE, WHERE MY OWN rule, MY reign must take place
b.j.,
Not to divert this thread, but, I don’t see the coming of Christ as the same “final” judgment spoken of in the book of Revelation, which is what I believe Peter is ultimately looking forward to in his epistle.
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
Of course, though, Messiah does bring sudden judgment on the antichrist and those following him, so it could apply as the wicked will be ashes under our feet, but, according to Isaiah there will still be people without spiritual bodies on earth during the Lord’s reign. At the final judgment of Rev. 20:9 fire comes down from heaven and consumes them.
But, it is up for debate—on another thread other than this one. 🙂
Do you believe Jesus also reigns on earth for a literal 1000 years?
The way the ‘world TURNS’ today, even before this very Week is over, we could KNOW what otherwise has been merely ‘speculation’ (with CARELESS readings of our ‘translations’ into English)mostly on part of Reformers, attempting to ‘reform’, from ‘within’, the great HARLOT Church buildup promise unto these sure ‘last of last days’ for this tiny FOOTSTOOL ‘of HIS’ (which cannot be ‘reformed’, even if time allowed attempts from ‘without’, only REAL fire answers).
Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you.
I’ve also heard it said that Jesus is the kingdom of heaven.
If there was one event on this earth that one could look at which was a pivotal point where the change was being made between the old covenant and the new, it would have to be Jesus’ suffering and death on the cross.
Brian,
I’m picking up with your post from the other thread.
I understand and agree with the things you said. A major area of dispute is that the legalists will say “if you loved God you would keep ‘all’ of His commandments” meaning the ceremonial, civil and dietary laws. Another argument used is that those same laws are the only things that make us “holy” in Gods sight. They also point to the Lord’s ministry to the Jews as proof positive that He means “Gentiles too” when He says “if you love me, keep my commandments.”
Of course the Lord preached the Torah as He would have disqualified Himself if He didn’t. The truth, though, is that He “came for His own” and He “was sent to none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel” and that “it’s not fitting to take the children’s food and cast it to the dogs.” Clearly, then, the bulk of His ministry was to Jews–not Gentiles! I certainly see His universal ministry and the truths He gave to all mankind, but, to suppose He expected the Gentiles to then convert to Judaism (or the law of Moses) is to completely dismiss the intended audience he was talking to and make mincemeat of the truth.
Likewise, the other disciples mentioned by Paul “went to the circumcision” and he to the Gentiles.
Anyway, I’ll not burden you anymore with it.
Thanks for your consideration of my question! 🙂
The ‘main event’? By far it’s HIS ‘perfection’ (came AFTER His departure from those days of HIS own ‘temporal’ flesh(includes HIS death, burial, life again, not as HIS resurrectionS to come, but which HE could ‘lay it down’ at HIS death cross, but ‘take it up’ again from HIS death upon Roman territory, then, in HIS first appearance, to Mary Magdalene). HIS ‘resurrectionS’, from HIS deathS (plural) immediately after, “WITH THE JUDEAN JEWS RICH”(GRAVES, whom ‘Mary’ M. thought HE was over, as chief ‘sacred’ in charge, AS forced RETIRED, most highly honored Priest, unrecognizable as in APPEARANCE, of great ‘age’) and in HIS then being sent in HIS deathS to ‘spirits in prison’, deathS of dead (of floods before Noah’s father Adam, resurrected, as from ‘initial’ total WORLDWIDE flood) whose ‘parents’ after initial worldwide FLOOD, died in World that THEN “WAS” (II Peter 3 ‘Earth’s two complete water baptisms’, awaiting NOW it’s third, final baptism, IN FIRE). What has come from our LORD’S own ‘perfection’ from here is “one NEW MAN” (HIS now, forevermore, the same as BRAND NEW CREATURE ‘MAN’. yesterday from HIS ‘departure’ 40 days after HIS ‘Passover cross’, TODAY, forevermore, IN NOW ETERNAL BRAND NEW BLOOD flowing thru HIS now FOREVERMORE sure literal, material, ETERNAL, spiritual FLESH BODY as WAS on Earth only the ‘sprinkling of blood’ NEVER TO BE REMOVED from earthly mercy seat, HE likewise is now also NEVER TO BE REMOVED from HIS eternal SEAT on HIS heavenly ETERNAL mercy’ as in heavenly eternal ‘sprinkle seating’, for to ‘sit thou HERE’, until, “all” your most ANCIENT of enemies past, “all” CURRENT present, “ALL” FUTURE, “all” now BEGUN made into YOUR prepared from their ‘foundations’ footstool of both YOUR CHOICE, OWN making, both THAT of this present DIRT ‘copy’, of those present heavenly ‘patterns’ since their foundations also, and ALL future (all of which based upon truth that ‘open Theism’ is false WITHIN time, space, ALL ETERNAL things now ever expanding, never ending, BUT as most ancient Dragon of Rev. 20:2, all this now never ending BEFORE it’s BEGINNING, ‘open Theism’ applied only to this first divine Creation ‘man’ FIRSTBORN, WHO BECAME “SON OF THE DAWN” over rivalry over a kingdom “to be LIKE the most HIGH” within ‘time space’ CREATION.
All from first man/woman (when created AT SAME TIME, together, breathed upon, eternal ‘spiritual BODY’ hidden within) including modern in ‘world that NOW IS’ that of modern ‘Eve'(modern SEED mother, that of all natural ‘living’ soul BODY within all moderns with far greater than original soul body of first man, HUMAN ‘ANTHROPOS’, far greater than all dust to dust, tent over hidden SOUL within, ONLY most hidden WITHIN human soul, BODY of that which is ‘spiritual’, ‘eternal’, will never ‘die’, HAS the ‘kingdom’ of G-d ‘HIDDEN’ WITHIN, that which can only BECOME instantaneously ‘changed’, in a ‘moment’, twinkling of an ‘eye’, BY the ‘last trump’). The “KINGDOM OF G-D IS WITHIN YOU”, however, it can also, be forfeited away BEFORE the ‘LAST TRUMP’ (but not before a NEXT LIFE from here, same ‘dna’, different ‘dust’, BLASPHEMY of the Spirit CANNOT be forgiven THEN, there either) !
Shelia,
The culmination of Paul’s writings, the apostolic letters and the N.T. as a whole brings out definitive points to a Gentile’s place regarding the purpose of the Law and the acceptance into the New Covenant.. The groundwork comes in acknowledging that obedience is as prerequisite to salvation, the Law is present and in use, and the Law is regarded to be obsolete at the same time.
A thorough exegesis of Galatians addresses your previously noted questions as rendered by the legalists, because in this letter the apostle was writing to a Gentile congregation that had people coming in telling them that they needed to keep the Law in order to be saved.
And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage). (Gal 2:4).
What law were they pressing upon the Gentile saints, was it the law of love and obedience to Christ? No, for if it were Paul would have embraced it wholeheartedly. It was the Jewish laws of circumcision, dietary, and the observance of holy days (6:2, 2:11-14, 4:10). This infuriated Paul because these agitators misunderstood the supreme point to salvation, wherein he believed that they were out of line to put a yoke of bondage on the Gentile converts.
Paul explained how those who affirm the entire Mosaic Law for all believers missed the grounds of salvation. This is spelled out in the grand word called, “Justification.”
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified…For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (2:16, 5:6)
Hence, the idea of living Jewish as pertaining to eating kosher, being circumcised or observing holy days demonstrates that you are loving your neighbor as yourself is a straw man argument and runs completely opposite to what the apostle has just declared.
He continues to posit the idea that no one is even capable of keeping the Law, and that it is not the means to salvation. “Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because ‘the righteous will live by faith.’” (5:11). We come to discover that those who desire to live under the law are under a curse – because no one is able to keep it – but those who live by faith have been redeemed from this curse and are blessed with Abraham. Paul’s condemnation on those who attempted place that burden on others was found in that they could not keep the law their own selves. (6:13)
Paul then makes two important points regarding the law and its purpose. He declared that 1) it was added because of transgressions, 2) until the Seed (namely Christ) should come (3:19). The law isn’t against the promises of G-d, however, once faith has come there is no longer a need to be governed by such. This is beautifully illustrated by the mention of the tutor (6:24-25). N.T. scholar, Frank Thielman, sheds light on the meaning of a pedagogue, adding value to Paul’s reference,
“The pedagogue in ancient Greco-Roman society was a slave charged with guarding the children of the wealthy between the time they left the arms of their mother or nurse until late adolescence. His primary roles were to guard, discipline and, to a limited extent, teach the child during specific periods of time.”
FF Bruce, in his commentary on Galatians says this,
“Instead of sin as the jailor, law is the warden or custodian – a distinction without much of a difference… To be ‘under law’ is i practice to be ‘under sin’ – not because law and sin are identical, but because law, while forbidding sin, stimulates the very thing it forbids…but in the sense that the law is a suppressor and a restrainer of mankind; men and women are suppressed under its tyranny, but are released from that tyranny by Christ. The law kept the Gentiles out of the privileges of the people of God and kept Israel apart from the rest of mankind; this divisive force has been overcome by the unifying effect of Christ’s redemptive act.”
Another N.T. scholar, James Dunn, described the law in a believer’s life with the term “baby-sitter.” The whole idea of Paul’s analogy is that once Christ has come (home) the baby-sitter is no longer needed, it has served its purpose and is now obsolete. The justifying act of Jesus Christ has nullified the force and obliterated the partition which the law had created, hence we are no longer under law but under grace.
This freedom from the law does not constitute that we are now free to be lawless (sinful) in our actions and deeds because we are called to be holy just as our Lord is holy. Our obedience is to the Law of Christ. Paul made careful consideration in calling us to fulfill the law (of Christ) as opposed to “keeping” the law (of Moses). The distinguishing evidence he used to formulate his idea of Jesus’ words for the Christian came not in doing away with the law but fulfilling it, and thus remains consistent with his Master’s plan. Jesus had declared that he gave a commandment to love one another (Jn 15:12). Paul understood this to subsume all other commandments and thus has completely satisfied the fulfillment of the law in the life of the believer.
“For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” (5:14)
“Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.” (6:2)
The apostle is consistent with the idea of the law being fulfilled through the law of love, known as the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. He is also consistent in affirming that we are no longer under the law but under grace – because it has been done away with, made obsolete, does not bring forth life, fading away, wiped out, and has ultimately has been nailed to the cross.
Shalom
Anti-Apostolic Pentecostalism has long taught falsely the LAW as a teacher, a disciplinarian, as if a ‘slave’ has been handed by his ‘master’ the right to teach, to train up, to discipline, the son or (in rare cases) the daughter OF THE MASTER ? That when Christ came, HE was to die the death of the LAW, abolishing the LAW, in the work of HIS cross (when in fact, the ‘slave’ of the ‘master’ was ONLY to make sure the ‘child’ is taken to the ‘school’ of the ‘discipline’ OF THE HOLY SPIRIT of “Promise” Who came 10 days after the departure of Christ from this tiny footstool ‘of HIS’, HIS “perfection” from here, HIS elevation to the right hand of the F-ther WHO sits on the seat of all power, AND WHO SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT only due to the obedience of the SON submission to HIS F-ther’s WILL only, EVEN TO THE NECESSARY ‘perfection’ required of a PERFECT ONLY ETERNAL ‘LAMB’ OF G-d to be ‘raised’ all the way from the dead ALL THE WAY to a PERFECT MAN, as “ONE NEW MAN”, never before existed, with NOW eternal blood, eternal flesh and bones eternally now nourished by HIS NOW brand new ‘SPIRITUAL BODY’s NOW BRAND NEW ‘BLOOD’ never to be removed from the now eternal MERCY SEAT just below HIS F-ther’s seat of ALL power above HIM, that which SENT (CAUSING HIS F-THER TO SEND) THE TRUE INSTRUCTOR ONLY of the ‘child’ of the ‘master’ in the NEW COVENANT ‘school of the SPIRIT’ of HOLINESS, BUT BY THE ‘SPIRIT’ SENT, by the F-ther, unto which “the baptism which NOW saves us” (not the former washing away of the filth of the flesh) BUT OF MAINTAINING AN EXCELLENT CONSCIENCE BEFORE THE F-THER WHO SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT ‘of PROMISE’, AT ALL TIMES ! The LAW is forever, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE SLAVE DRIVING OF THE JUVENILE owned by the “MASTER” NOW AT HIS F-THER’S RIGHT HAND, to the ‘school of the SPIRIT’ ONLY, and it’s baptism NOW in that ‘school’ of ‘discipline’ cannot wash away sins of the flesh, BUT answers the F-THER WHO SENT THE SPIRIT, IN EXCELLENT (GOOD) CONSCIENCE ALWAYS BEFORE HIM. Before the LAW allowed for ‘atonement’ (temporary ONLY covering over of sin). NOW all sin is condemned to the flesh of man, in the flesh of man, WHICH ALLOWS THE HIDDEN INNER SOUL BODY and further hidden deepest also within ‘spiritual body’ of man, TO VACATE the flesh, be resurrected in A NEXT LIFE, same ‘dna’, different ‘dust’, in very same once again likeness of very same partaking of very same sinful FLESH of both Adams, first and last, first and SECOND, from the curse of the cross, and it’s speaking greater than the ‘shed blood’ of righteous Abel, the cross of Christ NOT ending the LAW, but expanding the law to the ‘Princes of this World’, to the ‘Prince of this World’ AND MORE IMPORTANTLY “HIS VERY HEAD, as in HEADSHIP” aka: the most ancient “Dragon” of all. UNDER NEVER ENDING LAW, the eternal punishment can take place FOR eternal ‘free-will’ creation NEVER under LAW until rebellion brought forth the necessity of bringing ALL creation UNDER LAW which as an ETERNAL ‘spiritual body’, NEVER ENDING, for there must be a ‘separation’ between righteous and unrighteous CREATURES of HIS creation WHICH IS LAWFUL AND ETERNAL in judgments by the F-ther of ALL spirits and lights, F-ther of the UNIQUELY BEGOTTON SON, WHO NOW ‘SITS’ AND WIL BE THE ‘VOICE’ OF THE F-THER IN JUDGMENT OF ALL THINGS, the F-ther (as RULER OVER ALL aka: called EMPEROR on Earth over ALL) DOES NOT VOICE HIS JUDGMENTS BUT LEFT TO THE SON to be HIS VOICE unto eternal judgments of HIS CREATION in both divine and non-divine ‘eternal free-will’ with beginnings, no ending, HIS SENT HOLY SPIRIT ‘of PROMISE’ BY THE F-THER is the ONLY TEACHER WHO can ‘teach’ and ‘instruct’ FROM THE NEW unto maintaining an EXCELLENT ‘conscience baptism’ with the F-ther, not the Son, not the HOLY SPIRIT, BUT WITH THE F-THER OF THE SON, and the F-ther WHO SENT the HOLY SPIRIT to ‘instruct’ beyond initial new birth beginnings AND WASHINGS begun of the filth of the flesh, AS THE WRITER OF HEBREWS MADE CLEAR “THINGS WHICH MUST ‘ACCOMPANY’ SALVATION” !
No man can fulfill the LAW by simply doing the ‘second commandment’. Paul did not say this fulfills the LAW (except for relationship with fellow man in ‘agape’). THERE IS ONE COMMANDMENT above ALL others, the ‘first’ (FOR IF ANY DOES NOT FULFILL THAT ONE, AT ALL TIMES, then all others INCLUDING the ‘second commandment’ IS MOOT)
for THE ONLY ‘baptism’ which NOW can save, is NOW ONLY saving us, is maintaining EXCELLENT conscience with G-d WHOM WE WITHOUT CEASING DO AGAPE HIM AND HIM ALONE (in order to fulfill ANY commandment, “Royal” or not AND BE SAVED thru HIS SON’s OWN FAITH AND TOTAL OBEDIENCE ALSO TO HIS F-THER, by the same SPIRIT that raised HIM from the dead, ALSO SENT by HIS F-THER unto HIM Personally, individually, not as member of a group salvation mentality, WHOM He personally received ‘without measure’,EVAN AS OUR ‘EXAMPLE’.
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, FOR WHOEVER LOVES OTHERS HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. (Romans 13:8)
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”AND WHATEVER OTHER COMMANDMENT THERE MAY BE, are summed up in this one command: “LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
Love does no harm to a neighbor. THEREFOR LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW. (Romans 13:10)
The ‘context’ clearly is WHAT GREEK LANGUAGE insists upon (not any English ‘translation’, taken ‘out of context’, taken in isolation, for use as ‘proof texts’ leading the ‘unlearned’ into their own ‘damnation’ from THESE VERY SAME inspired ‘letters’ (in this case from Paul). Owe no “MAN” anything (yet WE KNOW, THAT EVEN PAUL KNOWS, WE ‘owe our G-D EVERYTHING). We owe our G-d the first Commandment ABOVE ALL, AT ALL TIMES. Modern day ‘example’ was, is ‘civil rights movement’ BASED UPON THIS CLAIMED .ROYAL LAW’ is all that is necessary, taken out of context (clearly NOW still way ‘off base’, many now either converted to forms of religious ‘Judiasm’, OR became outright ‘agnostics’ IN THEIR ATTEMPT AT BEING SALT AND LIGHT without the keeping at all times of the FIRST COMMANDMENT “first” and “foremost” making all others MOOT, without !
Brian R,
You wrote:
“The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”AND WHATEVER OTHER COMMANDMENT THERE MAY BE, are summed up in this one command: “LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Sooooo…therefore we do not need to worry about loving YHWH with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength? You think that there is no need to love Him by keeping His commandments?
Loving our neighbor is only the 2nd greatest commandment. The greatest commandment in context is this:
De 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son’s son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And this should be considered well:
De 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.
And Messiah said this:
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And this:
Joh 17:17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So for us He prayed that we would be sanctified by keeping YHWH’s every word…not just the ones that pertain to our neighbors. And YHWH will repay us to our face if we willingly disobey His commandments.
Shalom
Bo,
This isn’t difficult at all. We’ve gone down this road before, but I’ll be glad to clarify this once again with the words of Christ.
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ “ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.”
From Yeshua’s position, they both are intertwinded and are held on the same level of importance, thus the previous passage as rendered by Paul is an affirmation of truth. Your argument is not with me, but with the apostolic writings and the words of Yeshua.
Brian,
I agree that they are intertwined. But one is the greatest commandment and the other is not. Besides this, when we do not keep YHWH’s commandments, we are not loving our brother. And it does not matter which ones we are not keeping. It is not love toward YHWH and our neighbors that causes us to defile the Sabbath or to eat things that YHWH has forbidden. It is the root of bitterness that ends up defiling the congregation. It is not love to defile the congregation or to be leaven. It is you that is at odds with the apostles and Messiah and YHWH. Just like Esau, your way causes people to sell their birthrights for a bowl of clam chowder or a BLT. The lust for what YHWH has been forbidden and your carnal mind that cannot agree to the law of YHWH has blinded you. Your commandments of men cause others to lose their reward and your worship to be vain.
Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
De 29:18 lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from Jehovah our God, to go to serve the gods of those nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
19 and it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart, to destroy the moist with the dry.
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
I say that because you will not be subject to YHWH’s law and do not keep His commandments that you do not love your brother correctly and because it is grievous to you to keep YHWH’s commandments, you are not loving YHWH properly. I agree with John and Paul and Y’shua. You clearly do not. It is not good to ignore the words of the Messiah’s Father in heaven…to transgress YHWH’s law. It is sin and bondage and causes on to lose his reward.
Mt 7:21 not every one who says to me, lord, lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he that does the will of my father who is in the heavens.
22 many shall say to me in that day, lord, lord, have we not prophesied through *thy* name, and through *thy* name cast out demons, and through *thy* name done many works of power?
23 and then will I avow unto them, I never knew you. depart from me, workers of lawlessness.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
You deceive yourself.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
But we might have had this conversation before.
The NEW Covenant thru the real Jesus Christ of Nazareth, by the real HOLY Spirit of ‘promise’, contains, remains forevermore IN THE PROPER CONTEXT of to whom, of what, where, when, how, the OLD fits into ‘economies’ (dispensations) of G-d our F-ther, OUR direct rep of kingdom RULE of HEAVEN, IN heaven, over ALL of HEAVEN, in never ending, ever expanding, MATERIAL Universe of YHWH
Bo,
Thanks for your reply. As I previously noted regarding your exegesis, pointing to your methodology in jumping from one passage to another without dealing with the context before you only demonstrates your circular argumentation and only leads to an endless argument proving nothing.
Let’s begin with your opening statement in your response. You said, ” I agree that they are intertwined. But one is the greatest commandment and the other is not.”
Let’s look at the passage in its context.
But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. ’This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Jesus was careful to declare that the second is like the first, thus identifying that they both stand on the same plane. Paul, having the understanding and depth of the holy Scriptures thus declared that when one fulfills the royal law, of loving your neighbor as yourself, then you have fulfilled all of the commandments.
Jesus did not say that the first is the great commandment and the other is not? You engaged in eisegesis. Again, Jesus said “The second is like it,” meaning that is equally great. The truth of the matter is, if you love G-d with all your heart and do not love your neighbor as yourself, you are indeed disqualified in inheriting the promises of the New Covenant. Let me take this a step further with a witness so that clarification can be brought to the matter through the apostolic succession as reiterated from John, which actually validates Paul’s statement as noted in my previous posting.
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, HE IS A LIAR; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.” (I Jn 4:20-21)
Paul said, “… for he who loves another has fulfilled the law…. AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, ARE ALL SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[ Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8-10)
I wholeheartedly embrace these truths as the law has been fulfilled in the law of love as consistently demonstrated by the Apostles, and the Lord Jesus, himself. Hence, the problem that you continue to bury yourself over is that the outward show of the flesh profits nothing. While you seek justification by compelling others to act Jewish, you have totally missed the entire meaning of what it means to be justified in the sight of G-d. Paul said,
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.” (Gal 5:6)
More pointedly, Paul went on to say
“As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.” (Gal 6:12-13)
You, Bo, are the prophetic fulfillment of this passage! While you compel others to keep the law (i.e. Sabbath and holy day observance, eating kosher, and circumcision), you have proven to be guilty of breaking the very law yourself. A previous dialogue that you and I had ended with me biding you peace. Your final words to me followed with, “I do not wish you peace.” You have never apologized to me for your ungodly words, yet you compel others to apologize for their offenses to others. Notwithstanding, you have been chastised by Dr. Brown for your mean spirited words, also to include other individuals pointing out how you have been rude and offensive in your exchanges. So, you have been guilty of breaking the commandment on the LOF thread itself, yet you compel Gentiles to keep the law – to whom the Apostles gave no such command (Acts 15:24).
I would joyfully continue this discussion with you if it proved profitable and actually progressed based upon contextual exegesis of the Word. I think this best to recognize my discussions with you from the wisdom of Paul,
“But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.” (Titus 3:9)
We’ll join hands together or debate another topic if the opportunity presents itself as the Lord wills.
Shalom
The NEW makes the OLD ‘obsolete’ only to those who understand the NEW. The NEW begins with “in beginning” EVEN AS THE OLD (no article before beginning in John’s Gospel either, also of course, our NEW 27 Books not in order in which they were written). To better understand the NEW it’s very important to do one’s BEST in coming to a personal complete study also of most likely when each Book WAS written, before or how long after ‘another’ being studied, ESPECIALLY now, concerning the obvious ‘contentions about LAW’, it’s relationship as to the OLD, it’s NEWNESS, as revealed in the NEW, especially concerning LAW, & understanding ‘eschatology’ without contrasting NEW apart from the OLD, nor confusing LAW (Grace)
The OLD became obsolete, soon (after the NEW) to be done away with, NEW revealing OLD Covenant, rejection of certain ones within ‘Exodus’ of Jews, all ‘considered’ of ‘family’ of Jacob from ‘Egypt, those showing no real desire to be married, other than gain of all inheritance being promised. NEW also revealing ‘unique hidden SON’. of the ‘F-THER’ (when in HIS revealing became rival to ISRAEL’s inheritance, ‘killed’ the SON, ‘downloading’ of ‘Princes of this World’ of ISRAEL’s outer brain, into their inner SOUL). We know MARRIAGE, under OLD (ARRANGEMENT) in secret, always FOR HIS ‘UNIQUE’, ONE, ONLY (WITHOUT A BEGINNING)’BEGOTTEN’ SON (the NEW, SON’s ‘reward’ for HIS ‘OBEDIENCE’, bringing UNDER LAW, from most ancient of ALL ‘rebellious’, by SEED of the woman, bruising his HEADSHIP of the ‘serpent’s’ SEED, initial planting in ‘serpent’s’outer brain).
NEW Covenant is searching of the inner SOUL of a future Bride, not just ‘outer flesh’ of all those being ‘delivered’ from Egypt’s (World) valley of sin. HARLOTRY continues under NEW COVENANT, far greater than OLD Covenant, for ‘hidden within’ is what’s being scrutinized NOW, all sin ‘condemned’ past, present, future unto outer flesh of man.
Current ‘rioting’ continues simply, mainly, that BECAUSE of the promised buildup of the ‘Harlot Church’, falsely has taught in the ‘conquering’ over the ‘laity’ as organization ‘replacement’ of the real and only GENUINE sent by the F-ther, as first Holy Spirit of ‘conviction’ AND now here in both that of ‘conviction’ and of ‘true Promise’ (those deeds especially of all ‘nicolaitans’, ever increasing Universal efforts, as IF Torah states the ‘greatest’ commandment, within it’s teachings, is to love your ‘neighbor’ as yourself when in fact, the greatest, by far to before ever at all claiming attempting this commandment to love one’s neighbor, one must FIRST, FOREMOST come to truely LOVE their LORD, GIVEN US BY HIS ‘F-ther G-d’ AND ‘ETERNAL Source’, of our LORD, and personal SAVIOR, Jesus CHRIST, even as HIS UNIQUELY, and ONLY first begotten Son, Jesus Christ, maintained first, foremost ONLY HIS love, FIRST ALWAYS, only UNTO HIS OWN F-THER IN HEAVEN). Without complete commitment to this GREATEST and FIRST of all commandments, all attempts to ‘love one’s neighbor’ as one’s self, will end in endless ‘rioting’ as long as this tiny footstool exists to accommodate human soul life when suddenly it’s heavens are on real fire in it’s final ‘baptism’ ENDING all human soul life suddenly (to await their own order of resurrection in the FLESH, far from this future ‘lake of fire’, prepared for ‘devil and his angels’)