Dr. Brown speaks with Pastor Ray Bentley, author of the Holy Land Key, about the church and Israel (along with thoughts on the blood moons), and then speaks with Palestinian Christian leader Alex Awad about life for the Palestinians in the midst of war and conflict. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Let us follow the example of this godly pastor and demonstrate the love of Jesus to Israeli and Palestinian alike.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: I join with Palestinian Christians praying for the well-being of all in the Middle East.
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This week, get one of Dr. Brown’s most important lectures, “Is Israel an Evil Occupier?” (2012), along with two important debates, the first with James-Michael Smith entitled, “Israel: Ecclesiology, Eschatology, and Ethics,” and the second with Dr. Don Preston discussing the future of Israel according to Romans 9-11 (both recorded this year). Just $25, postage paid, a savings of $20 off the retail price. Order online Here!
Dr. Brown started his show by mis-portraying the issue of Israel’s over-kill policy.
It’s not an issue that “not enough Israelis have died.” Who says that? Certainly not me.
The concern is hundreds of dead and thousands of injured civilians.
At what point is enough enough? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?
It’s an important question in a time of war.
Hamas is the only one that gets to answer that question. It is totally up to them. There would have been no civilian deaths, but they do not care. They are supposedly doing this to end the blockade. So they trade hundreds or maybe thousands of civilian deaths and extreme suffering to get the blockade to end. It is obvious from their actions that the only real thing thew want to be sure to import is weapons and not food and necessities. Their actions have caused basic living necessities to be obliterated. They have lowered, if not ruined, the quality of life of countless thousands. They do not want building materials except to build terror tunnels. But maybe they have fooled you.
Greg, I know that you are a nice person- Please just take your Proverbs criticism and take it as a badge of honor. You have been reprooved by one of the truely great men of our era and all of history. If only I could be reprooved like that I would wear it as a badge of honor and look closely at myself. Elisha is one of these men in our history and look at what happened to his self serving servant. Greg, take your criticism and become a torch bearer and support this ministry. You will be blessed forever.
Greg, I understand you want to change minds here. I mean, I don’t know how but I’d like to change yours :)!
What I would appreciate, though, is if you would acknowledge that Dr. Brown gave plenty of precious radio time to Pastor Awad on this episode, someone who had a radically different view on the Arab-Israeli conflict but at the same time agreed that Jesus is the only way to salvation (at least in the part I heard).
RE comparing numbers of dead in Gaza conflict.
In this society I am proud to see such concern in human life. That is a good thing of course- What do we make out of ancient times in 2nd Samuel some of the casualties. 22,000 Armeans killed- 2nd battle 18,000 Edomites killed in battle- 20,000 Isralites killed under General Absalom. Now these numbers eclipse what we are seeing today- Expcept if you look at the non born numbers of the aborted in the United states over 50 Million! Then the unborn of the unborn becomes numbers that eclipse any numbers ever killed in a war.
Bottom line God has his hand over us and through the soon coming of the Messiah will make all killing history. Keep our eyes on his plan/his way.
I agree with Jane River’s in if New Jersey was firing rockets at New York, New Jersey would be a parking lot in short order. If New Jersians were tunneling into New York and capturing citizens and keeping laguardia airport closed due to rockets being fired what is the small state of New York supposed to do?
Greg, in answer to your question above, I suppose we would have to count rockets fired toward Israel and then compare that number with how many civilian deaths or injuries there have been, and then decide on the value of a rocket compared to an innocent civilian.
Ray did you recieve your book?
>>Hamas is the only one that gets to answer that question. It is totally up to them.
It takes two to fight. I put _a lot_ of blame on Hamas.
>> There would have been no civilian deaths, but they do not care.
I see fathers weeping over dead children. Women weeping over destroyed homes and on and on.
If not Hamas, Palestinians care.
I tried to engage you in this conversation before and you kind of dodged the question.
Criminals often hide behind civilians. If a gang member is hiding behind child, do you take the shot?
I would not.
If a Hamas member runs into an occupyed Jewish girl’s school, do you drop the bomb?
I say not.
And, as Dr. Brown says, Palestianian blood is a s precious as Jewish blood. (which I appreciate him saying, BTW)
In those circumstances, would you take the shot or drop the bomb?
>> But maybe they have fooled you.
Obviously, you have put absolutely all the blame on Hamas (who you blur with all Palestinians).
You didn’t put even one single piece of moral responsibility on Israel.
Objectively — c’mon — who has been more fooled here?
Is it even possible that one side is 100% always wrong and another right?
>>Greg, in answer to your question above, I suppose we would have to count rockets fired toward Israel and then compare that number with how many civilian deaths or injuries there have been, and then decide on the value of a rocket compared to an innocent civilian.
Hmmm… I couldn’t follow your logic.
My question is about the policy of over-kill.
Yes, Israel has the legitimate right to defend their people. Every country does. (Even Hamas does.)
But that right has legal and moral limits. Over-kill is outside that limit.
Or do you disagree with limits on war? Do you think Israel has the right to kill each and every Palestinian as long as there is one Hamas member left?
>> I agree with Jane River’s in if New Jersey was firing rockets at New York, New Jersey would be a parking lot in short order.
Who is Jane River? Is she a sane person?
In what sane scenario would all of New Jersey be firing rockets at New York?
All Gazans are not firing rockets at Israel. A radical group inside Gaza is.
So, if a radical group in New Jersey fired rockets at New York, would we kill all people in New Jersey?
Of course not. Authorities would try to minimize civilian deaths as they pursued the criminals.
I did not dodge the question. Your analogy is flawed.
Hamas is not holding my daughter up as protection in a hostage situation or running into a school for protection. They have declared war. They have committed their country to war. They continue to terrorize and taunt and threaten. Israel is not taking the shots, Hamas is using Israel as the weapon to take the shots. Hamas is pulling the trigger of the gun that they themselves have aimed in the direction of innocent lives. When they stop firing rockets, they will find that they have turned the gun away from their own people.
I asked my daughter what she would want done if an evil man, that was planning to torture and kill many people, was holding her in front of him for protection. She said she would rather someone kill the man and her with him than to let him go free. That innocent daughter of mine proves not only her innocence, but her compassion for others and her true sense of justice. She says, “Pull the trigger.” She is willing to lay down her life for others. Hamas is willing to lay down the lives of others for themselves.
When Hamas dares Israel to pull the trigger Israel doesn’t dare not pull the trigger lest hundreds and thousands times more innocent victims be produced. War is about expediency and efficiency. It is a very dirty form of justice, but the only one available when Hamas will not have justice or peace.
A peace maker is firstly one that shows restraint, but there comes a point when only war can make peace. A pushover is not a peacemaker. A pushover only steals peace from others in the long run by allowing evil to continue to spread. A pushover is an accomplice to premeditated murder in this case.
It is long story, but the most peace we ever had as children on our bus was when the bully got punched in the nose one day. If Hamas was only a bully, it would have worked by now. The only way to cure cancer though, is for good cells to be damaged and destroyed. My mom had it 4 different times. When it had gotten too far, there was only death left for her. Sometimes this is what happens with countries too.
Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
De 7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Ex 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Sometimes YHWH decides to do more than punch nations in the nose after allowing those that hate Him to have a four generation chance at love. He usually uses other nations to accomplish His purposes…esp Israel.
I am sure that Israel is not perfect in this. I guess we should be thankful that we have only had punches in the nose…so far…
The analogy is not mine — I hear Israel and the media say, “Hamas is hiding behind civilians” all the time.
(or in hospitals, homes, behind children. etc.)
But, I accept that all analogies are flawed.
But, even in war, the intentional targeting of civilians is a crime.
I’m impressed you asked your daughter! And, I gotta say, I’m impressed by her answer.
But, it just isn’t my value system. I would never shoot your daughter if a criminal was hiding behind her.
>> there comes a point when only war can make peace
This is a kind of Orwellian double-speak that I also disagree with. Making war is not making peace.
When Jesus commands us to love our enemies and bless those who curse us, this does not include bombing their families.
To me, “war makes peace” is a kind of idolatry of violence.
BTW, I’m an not accusing this of you, personally, but of our larger, militant culture.
I’m off to church. I will try to check back here but I can’t guarantee it. I’m doing something this afternoon.
Greg, Joan River’s Thank you- She makes a point using comedy – Think about it.
Oh, THAT Joan Rivers.
I’m not a huge fan.
Did she really suggest that New Jersey is like Gaza?
If she did — she proves my point. If a radical group in New Jersey fired a rocket at New York — New York would _NEVER_ indiscriminately bombed homes in New Jersey.
Hi Dr. Brown,
Might you please do a show one day responding to some of Dr. Awad’s comments? He mentioned –
1. The Israelis systematically taking the West Bank (land and water), making only Jewish enclaves.
2. Most people in 1948 in the land were Palestinians, and the UN made a partition which wasn’t fair to them, and thus they rejected the two-state solution then.
3. How ~800000 Palestinians were pushed out from the war (by the Jewish milita), and weren’t allowed to return back (and if they tried, they’d be shot at the border).
4. How some surrounding Arab countries actually did allow Palestinian Arabs in, like Jordan (~500000 refugees who could become citizens) and Lebanon (~300000, who because they were Muslims, couldn’t become citizens but could still live there).
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