Insights into the Meaning of “Israel” in the Scriptures and Today; Middle East Updates; and Your Jewish Calls

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Dr. Brown discusses whether the promises to Israel in the Bible apply to the nation of Israel today, shares the latest news from Israel’s conflict with Hamas, and then takes your Jewish-related questions. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.


Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The best thing that could happen for the Palestinian people is the fall of Hamas and the rising up of a compassionate leadership.

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As you pray for the peace of Jerusalem, pray for God’s mercy on the Palestinian people as well.



This week, get Dr. Brown’s book Hyper-Grace, which is making an impact across America and in many nations, along with his special audio teaching on God’s True Grace, which is designed to help believers understand the beauty and power of the grace of God. Get the book and CD together for just $20, postage paid, a savings of $10 off the retail price. Order Online Here!

Other Resources:

Lessons from a German Concentration Camp in Poland Called Treblinka

Dr. Brown Interviews Israeli Leader David Rubin on Ron Paul’s Israel Policies

Purim; Campus Anti-Semitism; and an Interview with Messianic Rabbi Steve Weiler

  1. Can you really blame the Palestinian leaders for rejecting the original UN plan to divide the country?

    Set aside the prophesy issue for a minute — put yourselves in the shoes of a Palestinian. The slogan, of the day, was “a peopleless land for a landless people.”

    But _you_ are living on the land!

    How would you feel if you were living in the Arizona and New Mexico and the UN decided to give it to displaced Mexicans because they decided it was a peopleless land?

  2. Who, exactly, is Dr. Brown appealing to? He made a good argument for killing Hamas members. But, I doubt that 1 in 1000 of his listeners are fans of Hamas. I certainly don’t defend their actins.

    The issue, right now, is not killing Hamas members, it’s Israel’s bombing of civilian targets, killing grandmas, children. bystanders, etc.

    Is it moral for Israel to bomb an apartment complex, killing everyone inside, because a single Hamas leader may be having a cup of tea

    Even with the supposed “knock on the door” effort, is it a war crime to bomb the family homes of Hamas members?

    Would we considering it a legitimate act of war of, let’s say, the Taliban bombed the American family homes of US solders? We’d be outraged and consider it a crime, not a legitimate act of war.

    It is not a “Satanic hatred” of the Jewish people to be bothered by this.

  3. And before you call me “anti Jewish” or “pro Hamas” — let me be clear.

    I do not support Hamas. I can’t think of any good thing to say about them.

    I do support the right of Israel to exist and they have the same right to protect themselves as any country does.

    I do support the rights of innocents to not be bombed — BOTH Israelis and Palestinians.

    Israel may have the right to kill a Hamas member but they don’t have the right to kill their families. They don’t have the right to kill innocent people who happen to be in the vicinity of a Hamas member.

    It is not “demonic hatred” of Israel to object to their killing of civilians.

  4. I was very interested to hear Dr. Brown say that the surrounding Muslim countries will someday worship the same God as Israel does.

    About a year ago, in my discussion with Jon (I think), I concluded that the “lost tribes of Israel” are Muslims.

    Hang on — don’t condemn to hell so fast:

    Who are the current Jews? They are just two tribes: Judah and Benjamin.

    So, where are the other eight tribes? Almost certainly — these eight tribe were assimilated into what would become the surrounding Muslim population.

    So, if you believe that all of Israel will be gathered together during the end times, it has to include Muslims and lots of Palestinians.

  5. A caller said that Muslims have the mindset of “we want to kill you, more than we want to live”.

    Dr. Brown replied “this is no-doubtedly true”

    I, for one, doubt it.

    I have known lots of Muslims. They love life as much as Christians do.

    This “they don’t love life” argument is a justification for killing the enemy. It’s simply not true.

  6. Greg, Pray through these issues- you do not need me telling you how wrong your post are – Although I will write that you are in 100 percent error on these issues also.

  7. Greg,

    It is not right to kill innocent civilians, but it is wrong to let Hamas leaders off just because they hide behind civilians. And we do not know how “innocent” a lot of these “civilians” really are…except the children. It is not Israel that is killing civilians, it is Hamas that is putting them in harms way and thus they are killed. Hamas bears the blame.

    If Hamas is not just a bunch of cowards, let them bring their armies out to the battlefield and do battle with Israel. Then we will not have civilian casualties. Let them put their munitions and rocket launchers away from the population. If they do not want to do these things they bring suffering and death to all that are around them. If those around them do not want the suffering and death, let them kill hamas for themselves or help Israel to accomplish this task by leaving the war zone or providing intelligence.

    You talk about who does not have the right to do this or that. War is not about rights but expediency. Rights are for peaceful relationships. When you swing your fist at my face, you give up your right to peace. When cultures or countries pick a fight with a neighboring country, they take the rights of their countrymen and fling them down before those that they provoke. Israel is not violating anyone’s rights. Hamas has taken those rights away and made slaves of the civilians. Israel need feel no shame.

    It is also very doubtful that very many of those that live in the Middle East are of the lost tribes of Israel. Many may be descendents of Abraham through Ismael and Esau though.

  8. Hi Dr. Brown,
    Can you please address these commments by Dr. Don Preston about Israel, I’m confused:
    “…Let it be clearly understood that I am not anti-Semitic. I affirm that Israel had a distinctive purpose in God’s Scheme of Redemption, a purpose that was fulfilled, and thus, Old Covenant Israel ceased to be God’s exclusive chosen people. Modern “Israel” is not under the curse of God, and the pogroms against the Jews throughout history are a blight on humanity. There is absolutely no excuse, from either a Biblical or humanitarian perspective, for “anti-Semitism.”
    What needs to be understood is that modern Israel is not the Israel of scripture; they are not the descendants of Abraham. There is no race of Jews today! The Encyclopedia Britannica (Vol. 12, p. 1054) 1973 says, “The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race. “Jewish author, Camille Honig, editor of The Jewish Voice, wrote (Nov, 1953),”It is sheer nonsense, as well as unscientific, to speak of a Jewish race. Jews do not belong to a single homogeneous group.”
    This is acknowledged by historians of all stripes who know that the Ashkenaz Jews of today were, in fact, Gentiles in origin. Ashkenaz Jews, who comprise the vast majority of those calling themselves Jews today, trace their lineage back to Gomer, who in turn was descended from Japheth, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:3; 1 Chronicles 1:4f). However, the lineage of Abraham came through Noah’s son Shem, not Japheth. This is incredibly important, and yet, is being essentially ignored by most Bible students today.
    Thus, for modern prophecy teachers to proclaim that Israel remains the chosen people of God, is a falsehood, for Biblical Israel does not exist today. There is no nation of Israel, descended from Abraham, today.”
    Thank you,
    Teo Z.

  9. Whew, that is as very sobering situation and must be judged with discretion and reverence. While on one hand the Hamas leaders are intentionally infiltrating themselves in with the citizens and using them as shields, Israel must make command decisions to do whatever it takes to capture or terminate the offenders. With that said, we must not forget the lessons from the Torah which declare that it is not G-d’s way to destroy the innocent with the wicked.

    Abraham asked the LORD, “Would you even sweep away the righteous along with the wicked?” (Gen 18:23)

    “Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Gen 18:25)

    This in no way means that all those who are killed with Hamas targets are innocent, but because we don’t know we must exercise temperance before making judgments for or against the matter, and leave it to the IDF to do what they believe is best. I champion them for defending their citizens and terminating the wicked, but I cannot, in good conscience, accept the death of the innocent being conjoined with the wicked as a small matter. Civilian casualties will occur, and we should grieve when this happens, but it should not deter Israel from completing their mission.

    “Ask for the well being of Jerusalem…” (Psm 122:6)

  10. Brian,

    Let us remember all of Torah. If a city is besieged, and peace is offered by Israel and the city refuses, they are allowed to destroy it completely. Not destroying the innocent with the wicked is not in the context of war. I applaud Israel’s restraint. In a Biblical sense, Israel has the “right” to totally demolish Gaza. I do not wish that. I wish repentance from hatred and violence. I wish peace. It grieves me to hear and see the family’s losses in Gaza or Israel.

    Let YHWH arise and His enemies be scattered.


  11. Bo, Let’s remember that Israel today is not commissioned by God to destroy all people who are not Jews from the land.

    There was a time when God commanded them to drive out all of the inhabitants of the land but the people of Israel do not live in that time today.

    As I understand it, Israel is now going into Gaza to destroy the tunnels and the infrastructure of Hamas as a matter of defending and protecting their people.

  12. Ray,

    I wasn’t speaking of that. But of when they were in a war that was not of the nations that they were to dispossess. Did you know that there is a difference?

  13. Bo, I’m aware of that, yet how often you speak of a time that was quite different, as if people today are all under the same commandments as another people under a different time.

    Please remember the times. Do you know the difference?

    Israel today isn’t under the law as it was under the law as we read so much of it being under the law in the Old Testament.

  14. As far as Bible prophecy is concerned concerning Israel, Does every single nation of the world have to be come together against Israel for the things spoken of in Zechariah 11:3 to happen, and do they have to have horses and riders?

    I don’t know what day this is talking about. I know there were times when God let Israel’s enemies have the victory over them, and there were times when God gave Israel the victory.

  15. Bo,

    >>It is not right to kill innocent civilians, but it is wrong to let Hamas leaders off just because they hide behind civilians. And we do not know how “innocent” a lot of these “civilians” really are…except the children. It is not Israel that is killing civilians, it is Hamas that is putting them in harms way and thus they are killed. Hamas bears the blame.

    So, if a gang member cowardly hides behind your daughter or wife — do you think the cop should take the shot, anyway?

    I say no. Wait for a clear shot and save the life of your family.

  16. Jon,

    >>Greg, Pray through these issues- you do not need me telling you how wrong your post are – Although I will write that you are in 100 percent error on these issues also.

    You think I’m “100% in error” to be concerned about the deaths of innocent children?

    Perhaps it s you who needs to pray for some compassion.

  17. Brian R.

    >>While on one hand the Hamas leaders are intentionally infiltrating themselves in with the citizens and using them as shields,

    By this do you mean “living with their families in their own community?”

    Israel isn’t just bombing tunnels and missile launchers — they are also bombing the homes of Hamas members and killing their families.

    It’s not “hiding in a civilian population” to have a home and family!

    Do you consider this within the rules of war?

    For example,do you think it would be a legitimate act of war for the Taliban to start bombing the houses of US military personnel in America? Even if US soldiers were “hiding” in there?

    I certainly don’t think so — and I try to be morally consistent. How about you? Were you in the military? Did you consider your home and family a legitimate target when you were staying there?

  18. Ray,

    >>Bo, why do you bring that verse up?

    I think Bo just cuts-and-pastes scripture randomly sometimes. 😉

  19. Brian,

    BTW: I appreciate your saying this:

    >>Whew, that is as very sobering situation and must be judged with discretion and reverence.


    Where do you think the peace teachings of Jesus play a role in war?

    Do we just say “they don’t apply”?

    Do all the teachings of Jesus not apply to nations or just the ones we don’t like?

    Dr. Brown made a strong argument for Israel not turning the other cheek.

    But, I think this is very bad advise to Israel.

    Violence is clearly not working for them but heeding the teachings of Jesus could break the cycle of violence.

    The path Israel is on, right now, is a very dark one. We’ve seen this before — when a country walls-off a segment of their population and then dehumanizes them, it can end horrifically.

    For the love of Israel, they need another way and I believe the peace teachings of Jesus are that way. It’s sad that so few Christian lovers of Israel do not think so.

  20. Ray and Greg,

    Israel has been gifted the land, it has been called to be a light, a city on a hill, salt of the earth. YHWH does not repent/change His mind about Israel’s gifts and callings. The salt that has lost its savor had been trampled by men for 1900 years. YHWH has restored the land to Israel and expects them to abide by His instructions for it.

    We can turn our other cheek individually, but we are not allowed to turn others’ cheeks for them. A nation, and its leaders, have a responsibility to its citizens. Hamas has instigated a battle at a staggering cost to innocents and civilians. Israel has every right to thwart Hamas’ current aggression and to eliminate the possibilities of future aggression. It has a Biblical right to wage war with the inhabitants of the land where Gaza is. How much more, if those inhabitants bring the war to them.

  21. Bo,

    >>We can turn our other cheek individually, but we are not allowed to turn others’ cheeks for them.

    So, I ask you. Which commandments of Jesus are strictly personal and which apply to whole nations?

    >> Israel has every right to thwart Hamas’ current aggression and to eliminate the possibilities of future aggression.

    Would that “every right” include genocide of Palestinians?

    Obviously, Israel’s kill ratio of 200 to 1 is not enough violence. Not even close. How much is “every right” in your mind?

  22. Bo,

    >>If a gang member hides behind other members of his gang or its supporters, I take the shot.

    So, let me get this straight.

    You’re cop. You can shoot the gang member but it means the bullet first goes through your daughter’s head? You still take the shot?

    Holy smokes, man!

    Thank God the police in my city don’t take the shot in that case.

  23. Greg,

    You wrote:
    “It’s not “hiding in a civilian population” to have a home and family!”

    If the home is used as a military foxhole or as storage for weapons, it is no longer a home. If the cowards will not fight in the open or away from their homes, then their homes are fair game. If the cost to Hamas is enough, or even to those around them, then maybe there will be positive change.

    Have you ever seen photos of WWII? Homes were destroyed. What about Syria? What is going on in Gaza is mild, my friend…and it is as humane as war gets…more humane than any other country on earth has come close to. If the leaders of Gaza do not like it, they can surrender. Hamas will desire conditions of peace, only when the cost is too great to make war.

    Luke 14
    31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
    32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

    It is horrible, and I weep for the civilians of Gaza, but it is necessary lest something far worse come about. The cancer of Hamas can not be allowed to grow too long or too big or all of Gaza will end up being destroyed.

    This is war, not some silly simulation that can be sanitized to the likings of armchair quarterbacks/generals.

    The wisdom of the rules of battle and siege in scripture are likely the only final answer. And if not now, then Y’shua will return not too long from now and do it Himself.

    Zechariah 13
    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south…
    10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
    11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
    12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
    13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

  24. Greg,

    You wrote;
    “You’re cop. You can shoot the gang member but it means the bullet first goes through your daughter’s head? You still take the shot?”

    I never said that. You are putting words in my mouth. I said:”If a gang member hides behind other members of his gang or its supporters, I take the shot.”

    Your analogy of my daughter is not true, so I offered a truer analogy. And realistically, Hamas is taking the shot and Israel is just the gun in their hands. Hamas is taking the shot at their daughters and hoping the bullet will go through her to get to Israel…politically at least.

  25. I think that Hamas would be wise to turn the other cheek and stop launching rockets. All it has to do is turn over all its weapons to Israel and there will be peace.

  26. Greg,

    You wrote:
    “Obviously, Israel’s kill ratio of 200 to 1 is not enough violence. Not even close. How much is “every right” in your mind?”

    That is an absurd comment. It is not about ratios. War is not a game with fairness rules. There is nothing that says one side can only kill 10% more than the other. War is about peace and safety for the future. War is always the cost for peace. One side has to win decisively or cause enough damage for the other to agree to peace.

    Every right in my mind is irrelevant. In YHWH’s mind, denoted in scripture, they have much more at their disposal than a 200 to 1 death ratio. You can read it in Torah.

  27. Greg,

    Your wrote:
    “Would that “every right” include genocide of Palestinians?”

    The Palestinians are not a race or even a separate culture. It would not genocide if they were all killed. And by no means do I support killing them all or even more than is necessary to restore peace…and none, if peace can be reached another way.

    And actually, I do not support war at all or the taking of innocent life. I support little girls in South America so that they can have food and schooling. I have taught my children to not be a part of the military.

    Greg, it is ludicrous for you to support abortion…the murder of millions of innocent children for profit, and then point an accusing finger at Israel.

    Do not try and twist my words as you did earlier and as you do the scriptures also.

  28. Bo,

    We’ll I’m glad you wouldn’t shoot a child if a gang member was hiding behind them! That’s a start, I guess.

    And, generally, your posts make me feel like you have some compassion for the Palestinians although it concerns me that you think it is impossible to commit genocide on the Palestinians.

    I worry that Israel is on a very dark path. We have seen this in history before –when a country walls off a segment of their population and then views all the inhabitants as a collective enemy. Dehumanization follows allowing for the worst horrors.

    Talking about kill-ratios is not silly in a situation like this. How much killing is enough? What are the limits?

    Clearly, killing 200 Palestinians for every Israeli is not enough killing to stop Hamas or even slow them. How much is? What are the limits? I suspect there is no limit short of total annihilation.

    As a follower of Jesus, I believe there is another way — the way of the peacemaker. Jesus teaches that they will be called children of God.

  29. Bo,

    I was hoping you would answer my question about which commandments of Jesus apply to a nation and which are just personal.

    You believe that Jesus’ peace teachings are personal and you think the bible’sv erses on gays are a national issue.

    How do you make that distinction? I’m genuinely curious.

    I also make that distinction but I’ll guess that the two of us make it based on very different criteria.

    (And, PS, I don’t support abortion. I do correctly point out that it is not addressed by the bible — not clearly, anyway. )

  30. IOW,
    If I work in a restaurant, washing my hands after defecating is not an ethical issue since the Bible never clearly states eating feces is wrong. I can have feces on my hands and serve food that way. No problem. That isn’t an ethical issue.

  31. Bo said,
    >>And actually, I do not support war at all or the taking of innocent life. … I have taught my children to not be a part of the military.

    I gotta say, Bo, I’m impressed by this.

    If you attended church, as I do, you might pay a high price for this kind of non-conformity.

    It sets you apart from a guy like Dr. Brown who is completely indistinguishable from the American political Right.

    I guess I’m not surprised. As much as I disagree with you, I have never accused you of conformist thinking.

  32. Greg,
    If what you say above is true of the American political Right, I wish they all were congressman right now.

    Imagine what better condition the nation would be in right now.

  33. Greg,

    There is so much pertaining to the things directly connected with abortion which are clearly laid out in the Bible, even though the word abortion is not given specific mention.

    King Solomon knew that a real mother would rather her baby were given over to a wicked mother than to let it be killed.

  34. Dan1el,

    Are you arguing that washing hands is a biblical commandment?

    If not, I have no dispute with you.

    Are you arguing that banning abortion is a biblical commandment?

    If not, I have no dispute with you.

    I’ve said it from Day 1 here — you can argue against abortion. You just can’t argue it from the bible.

    This is not the same as “supporting abortion.”

    Not that anyone has asked, but I am against late-term abortion. It seems beyond obvious that a late term fetus is fully human.

    But a single fertilized cell? Fully human?

    To believe so raises multiple theological, biblical, moral, sociological and scientific issues.

  35. Ray,

    Yes, there are some hints in the bible regarding how they thought about fetuses back then. One thing is fairly clear upon careful reading — they didn’t understand about conception.

    Although less clear, the fetus seems to have had some sort of demi-human status.

    I’m sure you are aware of the Numbers 5 “prescription” for an abortion. Would that law ever have been written if the bible taught that a fetus was fully human, with full human rights after the moment of conception?

  36. Greg,
    I trust that God is pro life and against abortion since abortion kills and takes away an innocent life.

    I can’t think of any place in the Bible where God was for the taking of an innocent life without permission of the one whose life was being taken away, or without that one laying it down willingly, though it seems that he came close with Isaac.

  37. Greg,

    I posted this awhile back:

    “You continue to make unfounded assertions based on a liberal agenda, but you still have failed to deal with the scriptures that have been posted. How about a little intellectual honesty for a change? Here are the scriptures one more time. Which ones are twisted? Come on Greg, engage in a fair discussion for once.

    You accused us of twisting the scripture. Where is the twisting in these passages? In which passage is a child not really a child?

    Here are some things that we can know for sure from the Biblical view:

    It is a child when it is near to be delivered.(8 1/2-9 months)

    1Sa 4:19 And his daughter in law, Phinehas’ wife, was with child, near to be delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and travailed; for her pains came upon her.

    Lu 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

    It is a child before it can cry.(7 months)

    Isa 8:4 For before the child shall have knowledge to cry, My father, and my mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria.

    It is a child by six months.

    Lu 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
    25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
    26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth…
    44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

    It is a child by the time that the mother feels movement.(4-5 months)

    Ge 25: 21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
    22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
    23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

    Ro 9: 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

    It is a child when it is 6-8 inches long. (4 months)

    La 2:20 Behold, O LORD, and consider to whom thou hast done this. Shall the women eat their fruit, and children of a span long? shall the priest and the prophet be slain in the sanctuary of the Lord?

    It is a child by three months.

    Ge 38:24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

    Once there are bones growing, it is a child. (Two months)

    Ec 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

    It is a child when it doesn’t have any members. (One month)

    Ps 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

    It is a child when the woman realizes she has missed her period. (2 weeks)

    2 Sa 11:5 And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child.

    Ge 16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes…
    11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

    It is a child when by the time it is a week old in the womb.

    Lu 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
    39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda…
    42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
    43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    It is a child when it is conceived.

    Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

    Ju 13:7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.

    Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    When did Messiah take on the seed of Abraham? At conception…that is when seed is conceived:

    Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
    36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived

    Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    In the following passage, at birth, in the womb and from conception are all in reference to the existence of Ephraim.

    Ho 9:11 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception.

    Conclusion: The people of the Bible, the prophets that spoke for YHWH and YHWH veiw us to be alive humans from conception on.

    So there you go, Greg. Please demonstrated how the above scriptures do not indicate that it is a child in the womb. At what point in the above passages does the definition of child not apply? Which passages are twisted? Do you dare answer with any specifics? I doubt it.”

  38. > It is not Israel that is killing civilians, it is Hamas that is putting them in harms way and thus they are killed. Hamas bears the blame.

    Can one expect terrorists to play fair? To me, if I had an option to kill all the Hamas terrorists, but one – only one innocent person who would be killed as well – I WOULD NOT DO IT for the sake of that one innocent person (a la the LORD doing the same with respect to Sodom).

    To me, to lay the blame on the terrorists for putting innocents in the way, and to then go ahead with airstrikes KNOWING that innocents WILL SUFFER is the height of wickedness and hypocrisy. Abomination! We are to convict the guilty and acquit the innocent. if we damn the innocent along with the guilty – and take the moral high ground saying Hamas is at fault for hiding behind the innocent – who is the real terrorist? The lines are a lot more blurred aren’t they.

    in the end, God will judge them all. both hamas, and Israel. May God have mercy on their souls!

  39. Ben,

    So it seems that you believe a Prime Minister, King, or President should tell the people of his nation that though we would like to go to war against these aggressors we can not lest a few innocent lives be lost through our warfare?

    And sending missiles into the air to shoot down other missiles which are coming in isn’t really a 100% safe thing to do either is it?

  40. Ben,

    WWYD? What would YHWH do? Do you think that every man, woman, and child was guilty when YHWH told Israel to invade the promised land and wipe them all out? Do you think that there were no innocent children in Sodom and Gomorrah? The angels tried to save only Lot and his family. What about all the children in those cities. They fell under the judgment of YHWH because of their leaders…their parents. There were likely well over 25% minor children that were killed in them. Do you think that every man, woman and child, of the nations that gather for the battle of Armageddon are evil? For they will all be wiped out. You are not representing YHWH’s justice but a human false mercy. Not every man, woman, and child, was guilty when YHWH sent nations to conquer Israel and take them into captivity. The leaders of Israel brought judgment upon themselves and their people. Hamas is doing the same right now. The people of Canaan did the same thing back then. Egypt’s firstborn were killed whether they were innocent or not. YHWH uses nations to judge other nations…and innocent people get killed in that judgment. The blame is on the leaders of those nations.

    It took drastic measures to convince Pharaoh that Isreal should be freed. It might take drastic measures to convince Hamas to let them live in peace in the land that YHWH has given them. Israel is the apple of YHWH’s eye. It is stupid to mess with them.

    A justice system is for a nation to rule its citizens. There is no such thing as a world wide justice system except the Anti-Messiah beast system. There is no justice system in war. Even the police kill innocent people while seeking to only get the criminals. Even the courts put innocent people in jail and to death. How much more should we expect in the chaos and methods of war.

    Your method of supposed justice would ensure more suffering of innocent people via the spread and increase of evil perpetrators. What we have now is a concentrated form of evil being taken down and innocent people suffering because of it. You want the protracted form where Hamas terrorizes Israel and its own citizens consistently and constantly. This is the kind that the news media is not allowed to report. Less innocent people will be adversely affected in the long run because of Israel’s actions.

    It is time to wake up to reality and real justice young man.

  41. The Bible says,

    Isa 57:1

    The righteous perishes,
    And no man takes it to heart;
    Merciful men are taken away,
    While no one considers
    That the righteous is taken away from evil.

    2 He shall enter into peace;
    They shall rest in their beds,
    Each one walking in his uprightness.

    If, in fact, the innocent are righteous, the Lord will give them their reward. War always involves innocent people as well as the wicked. The Lord knows who is who. It’s the saddest part of war. Let Hamas stop firing rockets if they are concerned with the death of the innocent. Why are they doing it anyway? Because they hate Israel for no reason other than they hate that they are even there.

    Israel was made a nation by a UN vote and Palestine could have had their own state side by side at the same time but they refused and instead decided to go to war with the fledgling nation as soon as they were born. In fact, because there wasn’t even a Palestinian nation to speak of at that time, it was all the surrounding nations that went to war with Israel. Gaza was part of Egypt until the 1967 war. Egypt relinquished control to Israel. Israel completely disengaged from Gaza in 2005 so why is Hamas still waging war nine years later, they are no longer occupied by Israel?!

    The entire area known as Palestine was so called in the same way as we refer to the “New England” states, which aren’t separate from the US. It was neglected and desolate when Israel was formed. No one cared for it and it was populated with nomads and other people who lived there but had their citizenship in the surrounding countries. There was no Palestine at the time.

    Israel is serious about having peace but when your neighbor refuses to even recognize your existence in their charter, it’s obvious they’re not serious about it and they don’t want peace. They want Israel annihilated and with the backing of Iran, they move closer to that goal every day.

    Regardless, no people should have to live in fear.

    Golda Meir, former Prime Minister of Israel, summed it up:

    “We can forgive you for killing our sons. But we will never forgive you for making us kill yours.”

    Golda Meir, to Anwar Saddat just before the peace talks.

  42. Interestingly, the fetuses that are aborted all look like human children. Is it possible that this is because, um, they are human children? What do we see when a fetus is aborted? It’s never just a freakin’ fertilized cell. Why don’t you check out the dumpsters behind Planned Parenthood? What do you see in there? Dead babies. We would have to suspend all common sense to avoid seeing the evil here. Yet, these people manage to do this so well. Moreover, what scientist worth his degree would deny that life begins at conception? When it’s any other mammal, we call it the gestation period, but with a human female, oh no, it’s just a cell, don’t pay any mind, think about your rights. Unbelievable. I am convinced that the cult of Planned Parenthood is just a modern version of the cult of Moloch.

  43. Nicholas,

    I can see that analogy!

    Irresponsibility is rewarded by Planned Parenthood. Which is a joke to name yourself that! You swallow a little pill everyday to prevent it—what in the world is so hard about that?!!

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