Dr. Brown shares more insights and updates on the crisis in Iraq, talks about the kidnappings in Israel that have the nation in turmoil, and then gives his reasons for faith and holy optimism here in America, despite what we see around us. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Muslims are killing Muslims and Christians. Blood is flowing in the streets of Iraq. Our prayer: God Your kingdom come, Your will be done, Your mercy be shown.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Often in the midst of interpersonal conflict, we get so caught up with the truth of the matter that we forget the people we are dealing with. Let us join grace and truth, love and truth together.
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Off topic suggestion/question: Have you thought of making the new Messianic translation of the Bible available in electronic form on say Olive Tree Bible platform or Logos or better yet on both? I personally use Olive Tree’s platform. They were an earlier player in the iPad and portable device market while Logos was still just computer based. One can bring up two translations simultaneously to read side by side. The Messianic interpretation would be a welcome addition.
S. Johnson, I don’t own the translation, so that’s not up to me, but it is available on YouVersion for smartphones or tablets or on the on Tree of Life Version website.
Your response to John MacArthur’s response was almost identical to what he said. Go to that person, love them, understand them, tell them what the Lord says and seek their repentance. If going to them one on one does not work, then being friends, etc, etc.
I understood his answer to be the same as yours. I didn’t sense the coldness I think you felt from it. I will re-listen to it once its archived, I may have missed something, but I think you both gave similar answers.
Benjamin, by all means, please do listen again, especially to the comments re: a professing believer coming out as gay.
Has reading/studying the bible on an iPad changed the experience for you?
For professional reasons, I talk to a lot of people about traditional books vs. ebooks. Avid readers have strong opinions about it! But, I haven’t spoken with a lot of people reading the bible on a tablet.
Do you use your table for study or devotions as well?
To answer Dr. Brown’s question at the top of the show:
I think it is a good thing to talk with Iran about Iraq. Talking is good.
But, I think it would be terrible to send troops back into Iraq. That was one of the worst, most pointless war in US history. We’re out and we need to stay out.
But talking? Yes, let’s talk. It was reported, at the time, Iran offered to help America fight al Qaeda after 911 but the Bush administration rejected their overtures. I think that was a huge lost opportunity.
Let’s not make that mistake again.
The bible commands us to do good to those who hate us — the least we can do is talk to them!
I think we should send a delegation of 72 elders to work it out!! And they can choose 72 and let them verbally duke it out for as long as they need to. No weapons allowed.
I find the tablet to be very useful. For years I used a traditional Bible of paper. I would write notes in the margins. With the tablet, I can pull up various translations side by side when I have a question about the translation. I can touch a word and get the Strong’s definition as a popup in either Hebrew (OT) or Greek (NT). The highlighted word is also linked to several dictionaries that I have purchased. A given verse can be read in parallel with one of a number of commentaries such that the commentaries track with the verse that is open.
Last, notes can be appended to any verse and organized with tags or with folders. I have added hundreds of notes to my Bible, something not possible with the Hardbound version. Notes can be synched to a cloud server so they are available across devices. Overall the tablet version is a wonderful study tool.
Logos is the 900 pound gorilla in terms of resources. But its limitations if I understand it correctly are that to access the suite of vast resources, you need to have access to the internet. Logos grew up on the computer, then was ported over to the portable devices. Olive Tree started out on portable devices and now can be accessed on a computer as well.
Olive Tree resources stay local, so no internet link is required once resources are downloaded. The resources on Olive Tree are not quite as vast as those on Logos, but for most people they are more than sufficient. They include most major multivolume commentaries and most translations of the Bible. Also you don’t have to buy a suite of products up front. You can start with the free reader and a Bible at a reasonable cost and add to your library over time. You can pick and choose the resources that you really will use. They often have sales with fairly deep discounts and the people are very nice to deal with. You can also send link to social media sites like Facebook.
Thanks for that, I just downloaded it to my PC.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer. So, it sounds like you use it for study, more than meditation or devotions.
People often tell me that ebooks are great for sort-form study like reading reference books but they find them not as good for “big picture” reading — such as literature studies.
In other words, ebooks are good for studying trees but not as good for studying forests.
– – – – – – – separate issue – – – – – – —
I sometimes wonder why Christians get so fixated on translation differences. I have a few translations around my house but I don’t feel a need to have all the translations!
Have you considered learning Hebrew and Greek? That solves the translation problem.
I learned the Greek — it was hard for me since I am not naturally gifted in languages. I did it the conventional way with two years of seminary-level classes. (But then countless hours of just reading it!)
But, I’ll bet there are good on-line courses. Since you are only learning to read and not speak, it seems sell-suited to self-study.
I’m a little disappointed that Dr. Brown’s show didn’t start a discussion about how we should talk with Muslims — especially “radical” ones.
(For starters — I’m worn out by the gays and abortion discussions!)
Does anyone here have Muslim friends or has ever spoken with a Muslim about these issues?
Or how about a radical Muslim? Dr. Brown claims 10% of all Muslims are radical, so it seems like someone should have. (I doubt that number.)
If you have not had Muslim friends, been in their home, heard their personal stories, played with their children — then don’t presume you know Islam.
I see this both ways, by the way. I hear Muslim preachers saying crazy stuff about Christianity but I doubt they have had even one good Christian friend.
… I’m not saying you _should_ have Muslim friends.
I don’t have any Druze friends, for example, but then I don’t presume to know anything about the Druze.
What’s dangerous is if one has not meaningfully met a people but still thinks they understands them. .
I suspect wars have been started because of this.
Re post number 12.
I have heard on this program how we are to LOVE muslims/palestinianes/arabs/Jews/christians/catholics/democrats/republicans/married/unmarried/gays/straits/ That is what this program is about. For you to always presume that Dr. Brown is always ignorant and unloving to people is really off base.
Greg, I have heard your arguement on the number of radical muslims and sent you direct information on that number. I sent you a United States (state department) estimate. Did you not take that into consideration? If you are going to ignore all data how are we going to be productive in our arguements?
I use the iPad version for both devotional and study as one dovetails with the other. It is often in my daily reading that I will see what at first blush appears to be a contradiction. When I find a solution, I append a note to the verse, so in the future I will have the solution readily at hand. I tend to integrate material from various Pastors and Theologians into the notes.
As for the translation issue, sometimes a different translation can make a significant difference. For example 1 Tim. 3:16 is rendered “God was manifest in the flesh” in the NKJV and “He was manifest in the flesh” in the NIV. The former has stronger Deity implications for Jesus than the latter.
It also depends on who you dialog with. Not infrequently Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on my door. Being able to discuss translation issues with them is important. For example 1 Pet. 1:10 speaks or the “Spirit of Christ” as the Spirit guiding prophecy, while the New World Translation renders it “the Spirit in them”. By showing that EVERY available translation other than the NWT renders it the same, this makes for a powerful argument that the Witnesses are biasing their translation based on their theology. Such discussions plant the seed of doubt as to the integrity of their translation in general.
I have created tags for various topics that point to verses to which I have attached notes that are helpful in these types of discussions. For example one of the Jehovah’s Witnesses tactics is to attack the Deity of the Holy Spirit. Most people are not prepared for this approach. They may know some verses that defend the Deity of Jesus but are less familiar with verses about the Holy Spirit. The Jehovah’s Witnesses consider the Spirit to be a “force” not a person. So I have a tag that points to verses that show the personhood of the Spirit (e.g. Has emotion –Eph. 4:30, Has intellect–John 14:26, Has a will, 1 Cor. 12:11, Is eternal Heb. 9:14, Is associated with creation Gen. 1:2, Psalm 104:30, Is associated with prayer Jude 1:20 etc.). Having such links takes some of the work out of bringing a systematic approach to answering such questions “on the fly”. It was also a good exercise to crystalize the logic behind my own beliefs.
Is it not interesting to see the lack of consideration given to a so called Christian nation. From the Christian nation we had televisions, cars, computers, food. All things the Muslims typically enjoy and use and yet they don’t make the connection. When was the last time that the Muslim nations were at the forefront of any technological progress?
I am not saying that our scientists are a bunch of Christians, but I believe the Muslims consider them to be Christian by default.
You are flat wrong stating that Sunni is the majority in Iraq (12 min in). In fact, Shia is the majority (by about 2 to 1).
Much of the problem in Iraq was that Sadaam and his mostly Sunni Ba’ath party was oppressing the majority Shia population.
Democracy has brought more power for the Shia (as a result of sheer numbers) and thus the resentment from the minority Sunnis leading to the rise of the militant terror group ISIS.
Having served there, let me state unequivocally that the Iraqis are not worth American blood and treasure. They never wanted American intervention, were not grateful for our sacrifice, and were ready for us to leave.
If America wants to provide asylum for the minority Christians…fine. But not one more American life, dollar, or bullet should be wasted in this conflict.
Guest, thanks for your post. You are quite correct regarding the Sunni-Shiite population in Iraq, and I regret my error. My overall statement re: the world population of Sunni vs. Shiite was correct, but it was incorrect regarding Iraq. Again, thanks for the correction.
Thanks for the response and apologies for the sharpness of my comment.
The Iraqi people are still a sore topic years later. I lost 4 friends from my platoon during the surge. Sadly, I now think they died for nothing. Having witnessed the ineptitude of the Iraqi Army firsthand, nothing taking place today surprises me.
Bush and Sharansky were wrong — all people do not wish to live in a democracy and at peace with their neighbor. I blame their religion/political ideology – Islam.
Thanks for your podcast Dr Brown. I can’t begin to describe how it has helped me grow in my faith.
Guest, apologies fully accepted, and I can’t imagine how painful all this is to you. What our troops suffered — and continue to suffer, even back home — is agonizing to consider, and I’m truly sorry for your loss.
And thanks for your very kind words as well. May the Lord’s grace be yours in abundance.
I never accused Dr. Brown of being ignorant about Muslims. In fact, considering his interest in the Middle East, I suspect that he has meaningfully gotten to know some Muslims.
I do think his his “10% of Muslims are radicals” number is way off. (I think that’s his number.)
When he gave it the first time, I asked where he got that number but no one answered me.
I would guess that far less than 1% of Muslims are radicals — and even lower in America. A small fraction of 1% — a few hundred out of millions.
But, my estimation is just that — but it’s based on having met thousands of Muslims and known quite a few.
BUT HERE IS MY POINT:
Don’t think you know Islam unless you know some Muslims. (and, even then, understand that Islam is almost as diverse as Christianity.)
Suddenly, after 911, everybody had an opinion about Islam an Muslims an “experts” popped up everywhere. But how many actually know Muslims? Not many, I guess. It’s a formula for abuse of our fellow human beings.
>> Greg, I have heard your arguement on the number of radical muslims and sent you direct information on that number. I sent you a United States (state department) estimate. Did you not take that into consideration? If you are going to ignore all data how are we going to be productive in our arguements?
Not ignore it — I missed it. It’s a problem with the way this blog is set up. I can only actively participate in so many discussion threads, so I tend to move-on with the shows as the move-on.
I would tend to trust State Department numbers, although I would guess them to be skewed towards over-rating the “terrorist threat” since they may want to rationalize our foreign policy. But, I don’t think they would make stuff up.
I’ll google for it…
Is’ this the report you are talking about?
It’s huge! I don’t seen any summary page of over-all support for terrorism among Muslims.
Please note that I only doubt the !0% number. I don’t refute it.
But, I will say, it doesn’t come close to my own personal experience with Muslims — and I lived in one of the most radicalized Muslim countries there is. Here in America I have never met a Muslim who seemed like a radical — and I meet them fairly regularly.
Considering how you read the bible — a computer program makes sense.
Please don’t hear any criticism in my questions! I really am interested in eBooks — how you read the bible is between you and God.
But, considering how you read the bible — I still think you are a good candidate for learning the Greek.
For example, in your question about 1 Timothy 3– it’s takes about a second to realize that the literal translation should be “He” or “Who” although there are textual variants which say “God.”
Possibly, the scribes may have been frustrated with the ambiguity and some changed it.
Why are you so convinced the bible as no internal contradictions? He bible doesn’t claim that about itself.
I believe the bible is inspired by God and true.
Does this means there can be no minor differences between the various books and accounts. If so, I don’t seen in the bible where God claims that.
God chose to speak through humans and people have different personalities and perspectives.
If God didn’t want human involvement and variants in the scriptures, wouldn’t he just have “handed down” or “dictated’ the bible the way the Mormons and Muslims think he did?
>>Having served there, let me state unequivocally that the Iraqis are not worth American blood and treasure. They never wanted American intervention, were not grateful for our sacrifice, and were ready for us to leave.
Thanks for your perspective — former “boots on the ground” are valuable in times like these when John McCain and other conservatives are calling for America to re-involve ourselves in Iraq.
I was against this war from the beginning but, after it started, wanted America succeed in installing a stable democratic government.
So, to see Iraq soldiers throw down their weapons after you guys fought so hard was extremely discouraging.
But we are out — and we must stay out. I strongly believe President Obama is correct — there is no military solution. Peace in Iraq will come from Iraqis.
But, it grieves my heart to see all the victims there, right now.
One quick note: The figure of 10% of Muslims being radical is considered to be conservative by some top Middle Eastern scholars, and it’s actually a bit shocking to me that people are questioning that here. Here’s an article that goes back more than 10 years, when the numbers were much lower than they are today. http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2003/10/how-many-islamists
That being said, I’ve learned that some folks have no interest in facts and research and prefer their own opinion, and there’s no convincing them of truth.
Today’s guest Tom Glison (or Gilson) said something that I think may apply to John MacArthurs snippet from a couple days ago.
Tom said, “If I give a quick answer, it will be weak and wrong.” implying it’s a question which requires more time to answer.
MacArthur had a minute to answer the multifaceted question. Given more time he may have expounded about what it meant to “go to” the person, etc. I believe the other person referenced wrote a book discussing 10 steps (or blog or something).
And know that I am not a MacArthur defender. I do think he is a great man of God, but I differ vastly when it comes to his Calvinism. I think we just have to take into consideration that he had about a minute to answer.
Thanks for the link – and I’ll ignore the little jab which, I assume, was aimed at me although I can’t think of what you are referring to.
Although Daniel Pipes is clearly a biased source, I see that he bases it in a Pew poll, which I would trust.
I’ll look at the numbers. And I will accept the 10% number if that is what the research says.
– – – – – — – – –
I read the article and I read the Pew study – the 10% is not clear at all. Even Pipes admits it is debatable.
I think problem is how one defines “Muslim radical” — I don’t see where Pipes explains it.
One definition is the percentage of people who identify as Islamists.
That’s a fair definition, I suppose — basically “a fundamentalist who wants their religious law imposed by government.”
So, by that definition, what percentages of Christians are also “radical”?
Most of you here are “radicals” by that definition, are you not?
But, you aren’t radicals!
Yes, you want your religious opinions enforced by the government but I expect all of you would keep your religious-political action within the limits of words and democracy.
I may tackle the Greek one day, but it is quite a project.
As to your question about Bible contradiction:
1. Only the autographs were inspired and error free. The copied manuscripts do indeed have errors, but fortunately we have enough early manuscripts to render the original reading with a high level of confidence. At the very least no significant doctrinal impacts are made based on the variants.
2. The Bible does make the claim that it is without error. 2 Tim. 3:16 says ALL Scripture is God breathed. Can what is “God breathed” be in error? 1 Pet. 1:21 says men did not make prophecy based on human will. The logic:
i) God cannot err.
ii) The Bible is the inspired Word of God.
iii)Therefore the Bible cannot err.
To deny the conclusion one must deny one of the premises. Which one don’t you like?
3. Jesus held the Scriptures to be free of error. The NT has 92 instances where it says the equivalent of “It is written”. When Jesus would say this, that was the end of the discussion. Why? Because the Scriptures were considered to be perfect. There are multiple other places where Jesus affirmed the Scriptures, even those things that the modern mind believes to not be credible. For example Mat 12:40 “For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”. If one tries to allegorize Jonah, then do we also allegorize the resurrection so as to say that JUST AS, Jonah never actually went into the great fish, Jesus will not Actually rise from the dead? Is the resurrection is to be taken spiritually and not literally. This is to short of a space to go into greater detail of all the places Jesus verified the Scriptures. The logic:
i) Jesus as the Son of God cannot err.
ii)Jesus confirms the Scriptures are true.
iii)Therefore the Bible cannot err (autographs again).
The painful logic is that to say the Scriptures err, one must deny the Deity of Jesus.
One of the problems people have in claiming contradictions, especially with science is taking metaphorical language literally, and what is meant to be literal metaphorically. For example, some erred in taking “the four corners” of the world literally to prove the earth must be flat. Taking metaphorical language literally results in a God with a physical body, with eyes and hands and yes even feathers. Even in our scientific age we talk of sunrise, we don’t talk about in the more accurate terms of the earths revolutions.
Norman Geisler has spent years looking at apparent contradictions. He written a book addressing these problems. He has also written a book addressing the problem of inerrancy of the Bible as a whole. Geisler’s approach is based on cold steel logic.
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