Dr. Brown speaks with David Kyle Foster, author of the autobiographical book Love Hunger. David was delivered from sexual addiction, pornography, prostitution, and homosexual practice, and he now heads up Mastering Life Ministries and Pure Passion TV. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: It doesn’t matter how broken, how messed up, how deeply in rebellion you are. The mercy of God, the blood of Jesus can touch you.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: If God could save, transform, and use David Kyle Foster and me, He can save, transform, and use anybody.
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“One of the signs of personal strength is that we take blame for what we do wrong. The other sign is that we take credit for what we do right. We do not alienate our power by assigning it to someone else… Strong people are comfortable in recognizing their own power… nor do they call their power ‘a higher power'” – Sherman T. Wine
One thing Dr. Brown and Dr. Foster will probably never be able to understand is that while beliefs can change your life dramatically, that is in no way evidence that these beliefs are actually correct. People of all religions make then exact same claims about how their beliefs have changed them for the better. Yet Drs. Brown and Foster would never accept this as evidence that these other religions are true. But they expect other people to accept their personal experiences as evidence that their religion is true. This is a great example of just how arrogant and closed-minded Bible believers really are.
It seems to me that Jesus is just a crutch for the weak-kneed and spineless. Strong willed people never fall for the Jesus stuff. My experience is that it’s only people who are frightened and unsure of themselves who become Bible believers.
I don’t understand why people cannot just realize the consequences of pornography, prostitution and these other things that hooked Dr. Foster and just be strong enough to turn off the computer and find something more constructive to do. I don’t understand this kind of human weakness. Sounds like bad parenting to me. I’m glad my parents taught me about the consequences there are for bad behavior without telling me there’s an invisible bogey that is going to punish me for my thoughts and actions.
I think perhaps atheism has become a refuge wherein mean-spirited people cloak themselves, although, these days, not very well.
Van, you must be very young and most likely haven’t met very many people yet if you honestly believe that there are no strong willed people who believe in Jesus. I think it takes a stronger will to profess God than it does to mock Him.
I think atheists have become the new bullies on the block and I doubt that’s what your parents taught you.
Oh please. Christianity only appeals to the base emotion of cowardice. If cowardice is your dominant trait then you are ripe for the lies of Christianity. Strong people do not let other people frighten them with a bunch of stupid fairy tales about what might happen to them after they die. The afterlife is a hoax and everybody who thinks for themselves knows this. It’s a shame to see people waste the only life thy have by hoping for a better one that will never come. Of this fact we can all be very sure.
Have you ever listened to how mean-spirited the host of this show is to people who question his interpretation of the Bible or views on social issues? I guess you just ignore that.
Van, please do call the show, OK? And please do post links to clips where I’ve been mean-spirited to callers who differ with me.
“He who has no people has no God. You may be sure that all who cease to understand their own people and lose there connection with them at once lose to the same extent faith of their fathers, and become atheistic or indifferent . I’m speaking the truth! This is a fact which will be realized. That’s why all of you and all of us now are either beastly atheists or careless, dissolute imbeciles, and nothing more.” Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Van you have no people, let G_d speak into your life.
I think if we could exam A.K.A. Van we would really see how isolated and lonely this man is. Our hearts would be moved to him. To not have a family, society that you belong to, a people he is lashing out at the very creator. For this he is in the dark. I pray that light may hit to his core.
Van said
>> Strong willed people never fall for the Jesus stuff.
You say such patently false stuff.
No informed person would ever accuse Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr., Dag Hammarskjöld, Sam Walton or Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn of being weak willed!
It’s just proof that bigotry makes people stupid. You don’t strike me as a dumb guy but you say such dumb stuff!
I absolutely affirm this man’s story — including his being “saved” from homosexuality. If that was wrong for him, I would never second guess the power of God in his life.
But, we all get saved from different things.
For example God saved me from conservative Christianity. Does this mean that all people need to be saved from conservative Christianity? I don’t presume that for a minute. Conservatism can be good for some people even as it is toxic for others.
Greg, are you saying that homosexuality might be good in God’s sight for some people, but for others it is not, as if it’s something that just isn’t for everybody, but that there’s nothing wrong with it in itself?
It seems to me that if God saves someone from a thing, then the thing is bad and evil, and if a thing is bad and evil, then it is so for everyone.
For example, God may save a man from alcohol abuse. Then isn’t alcohol abuse something that is wrong for everyone?
Should Christians be a people that will go along with every wind of doctrine, or should we be the kind of people that hold to the teachings of the scripture?
I say we should be the kind of people that hold to the teachings of scripture.
Greg, what do you mean when you say that God saved you from conservative Christianity? If you can work that into the subject of this thread, I would like to hear your testimony concerning that salvation.
I believe there may certainly be priorities is a person’s life, as well as a time for everything, and that God may certainly overlook some things some people may do, and at the same time, decide it’s time for them to change this or that behavior, and this is certainly fine in my opinion. However, this is not to say that something then is righteous or not evil, simply because God decides to overlook some behavior for the time being.
Van, Do you believe there is such a thing as commandments, or doctrines which, if a man would practice, that he would by experience through doing those things, know that the thing is certainly from God?
Do you believe it is a good doctrine to flee youthful lusts?
Re Greg’s post – God saved me from conservative Christianity. Does this mean that all people need to be saved from conservative Christianity?
Conservative Christianity is being labeled now if you subscribe to what the word is clear on?
” Just a few years ago, the idea of same-sex “marriage” was as farfetched (even among most gays) as the idea of human-alien marriage, and the fact that marriage referred to the union of a man and a woman was taken for granted as much as the fact babies were not delivered on doorsteps by storks.” Dr. Michael Brown
Now the idea of not accepting (s s marriage) is labeled as a stogy stuck in the mud conservative. I am neither in a liberal nor conservative church, I am in a G_d centered church.
Do we need to be enlightened?
” A society that could celebrate homosexuality after centuries of rejecting it could one day embrace consensual pedophilia as well. After all, it’s just a matter of enlightenment and social progress, right? ”
Dr. M B.
I will stay in the dark.
I was wondering if we are to believe or hope that one day people will evolve into being able to have children by the “new natural” way of same sex or what? Is this what we are to be “progressing” into?
Are we to hope that through medical science it will be completely natural for two people of the same sex to have their own biological offspring?
Am I wrong to think that this kind of thing is all crazy and contrary to wholeness which is in Christ Jesus?
Well, God delivered Mr. Foster from all kinds of sexual crookedness, and with God all things are possible. So there is hope for a better and less corrupt future, even in this crazy, fallen, and confused world.
The gospel isn’t about “anything goes” is it?
Neither is it about people progressing into their own authority to change the things of God simply by a vote of the majority, or by a stubborn rebellious, and self-willed minority.
Re Ray’s comment-
The gospel isn’t about “anything goes” is it?
exactly, enjoying the book Hyper Grace that talks about this very subject.
Greg, to compare homosexual practice with “conservative Christianity” is obscene. And God saves no one from the truth of His Word.
“Sexual brokenness”
This is an excellent way to describe the human tendency to sexual deviance and immorality.
Ray,
>>Greg, are you saying that homosexuality might be good in God’s sight for some people, but for others it is not, as if it’s something that just isn’t for everybody, but that there’s nothing wrong with it in itself?
Yes! I thought I was clear about that by now!
I think homosexuality is normal for some people. It’s not a matter of sinful choice.
But, homoexuality can be sinful in practice.
Pederasty victimizes young people. Homosexual prostitution victimizes the prostitute.
And this is how homosexuality was primarily understood by the biblical writers and readers and was rightly condemned.
But modern, monogamous gay marriage is vastly different than pederasty and prostitution and should not be conflated with those practices.
Greg, I advise you to come back to the scripture concerning what it says about homosexuality, and back to the cross.
Dr. Brown,
>>Greg, to compare homosexual practice with “conservative Christianity” is obscene.
You don’t know the kind of conservative Christianity I was raised in.
(Think Pharisees.)
Conservative Christianity is a major stumbling block for millions of people. It’s draining our churches and driving people away from the faith.
But first, let me say that I understand that conservatism is inextricably linked to your Christian faith. (Nothing could be clearer from your shows!)
I’m glad for you! Liberalism was bad for you. I respect that.
But conservative Christianity is bad for a lot of others. Going-to-hell kind of bad. I hope you could respect that!
Just start asking around, you can quickly find endless poeple who have been deeply wounded by legalistic, judgmental, and exclusionary conservative Christians and churches. Or they have been that way, themselves, as practicing conservative Christians.
They need to be saved from (or repent from) conservative Christianity before they can fully open themselves up to the love and grace of God.
So, no. I don’t think the parallel is obscene.
(But, if one is bigoted against gay people, I can understand why one might think so.)
>>And God saves no one from the truth of His Word.
And that is such an odd thing to say in this context, I don’t know how to respond to it.
Are you saying that only conservative Christianity is “His Word”?
Oh, please! Conservatives have gotten the God’s Word spectacularly and tragically wrong many times over the history of Christianity.
Ray,
I believe that I am correctly interpreting and applying the bible on this issue.
I think you are the one who has it wrong.
I have deeply studied the bible, prayed about it, read books by the best scholars and sought the counsel of wise believers.
And, I came to a different conclusion than you. (And, by the way, millions of Christians are coming to the same conclusion. The tide is turning fast on this issue.)
Sometimes this happens in the body of Christ.
The sooner we can accept this, as Christians, the sooner this issue will stop dividing the church — which also dishonors God.
As I listened to more of Dr. Foster’s testimony, it’s pretty clear that his psycho-sexual makeup is highly unusual and prone to extremes… to say the least!
I can’t imagine that a well-adjusted, gay Christian has any takeaway from it.
Other than to say what I say — I’m glad he has found healing from God.
“No informed person would ever accuse Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr., Dag Hammarskjöld, Sam Walton or Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn of being weak willed!”
Abraham Lincoln a Christian? Sure. He was the closest thing to an atheist we ever had as a president. “It will not do to investigate the subject of religion to closely, as it is apt to lead to infidelity.” – Abe Lincoln. His law partner said he was, “an avowed an open infidel. sometimes bordering on atheism… He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines than any other man I ever heard.
As usual facts are of no concern to those promoting religion.
As usual facts are of no concern to those promoting religion. Van ???
Can you site anything of proof that Lincoln was an atheist? I would like to pursue that inside knowledge that you have…
Can you respond to your position that I see you as hurting person that is angry at the world. If you want to belong to a people, become part of the Christian family…
“He who has no people has no God. You may be sure that all who cease to understand their own people and lose there connection with them at once lose to the same extent faith of their fathers, and become atheistic or indifferent . I’m speaking the truth! This is a fact which will be realized. That’s why all of you and all of us now are either beastly atheists or careless, dissolute imbeciles, and nothing more.” Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Hello, I am back from my absence.
I’d like to quote a great man and friend:
“… the gospel changes my view of God’s commandments, in that it helps me to see the heart of the Person from whom those commandments come. When I begin my train of thought with the gospel, I realize that if God loved me enough to sacrifice His Son’s life for me, then He must be guided by that same love when he speaks his commandments to me. Viewing God’s commands and prohibitions in this light, I can see them for what they really are: friendly signposts from a heavenly Father who is seeking to love me through each directive, so that I might experience His very fullness forever. (Deut. 5:29)
When controlling my thoughts as described above, the gospel cures me of my suspicion of God, thereby disposing me to walk more trustingly on the path of obedience to His commands.”
-Milton Vincent
Deuteronomy 5:29
29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Benjamin,
Welcome back. I guess no one told you that I have a copyright on De 5:29 I’ll let it slip this time:)
Shalom
Opps that was supposed to be 🙂
Bo,
haha, thankfully I took it from the Authorized Version which enjoys Public Domain 😉
Benjamin,
But I’m the one that is supposed to always bring up commandment keeping and everyone else is supposed to argue with me.
Greg,
You wrote:
“I have deeply studied the bible, prayed about it, read books by the best scholars and sought the counsel of wise believers.”
Who are your best scholars on this topic?
Did you get any counsel from any wise believers that homosex is wrong?
I am curious. Do you think that sex outside of marriage is fornication? Is it sin?
Greg,
And one more question: Do you think that Dr. Brown is a wise believer?
The point of the quote above in post #27 was, if God tells us that something is wrong and to refrain from participating, that prohibition must be given to us from the eternal depths of God’s love for you, me and everyone. God is no respecter of persons. There is no “If that was wrong for him” warranted from Scripture on this topic.
Is adultery sometimes right and sometimes wrong?
Stealing from your neighbor? Sometimes right and sometimes wrong?
What’s the standard for deciding? If I don’t “feel” like it’s wrong? Maybe my neighbor’s a jerk and hates everybody then someone might feel justified in stealing from him. I’m certain in the eyes of God, judging from Scripture, it’s still considered sin.
And what about predispositions? Some people are classified as kleptomaniacs and have a proclivity to steal things from others. Do we let them off the hook?
I think it’s really brave of Dr. Foster to tell his story, and what a story it is! Just goes to show the power of God to effect change in someone’s life!
Bo wrote:
“I am curious. Do you think that sex outside of marriage is fornication? Is it sin?”
Do you think it is a sin? If you do, then I have a follow up question to that.
Dear Greg, You must understand that by accepting the non biblical principal under the guise of liberalism that you are binding yourself to the errors of the sin festering inside society. Without Godliness, without holiness, we are doomed to ourselves. Yes, we have forgiveness but we have to stop and know the principal outlined for us in the book. We cannot keep puttin diesel into a car that requires gasoline. We must go by the owner’s manuel and put in the correct fuel. You are argueing that the owner’s manuel does not actually mean what it says, it means what I want to do.
Re above, please forgive the above post should of used spell check.. yikes.
Greg, would you please tell us the titles of the books “by the best scholars” which/who convinced you that the homosexuality spoken of in the Bible was pederasty and homosexual prostitution?
So some who think of themselves as Christians think that homosexuality isn’t unclean in itself, just that it might be that way for some people.
And yet, this is completely contrary to the scriptures.
Are we to believe there is no such thing as vile affections then? Or, are we to believe in relativism, such that such a thing might be unclean or vile only for some people ,in God’s viewpoint or perspective?
Such confusion is not taught by scripture.
So some have been captured by a spirit of religion, while they talk about conservative Pharisee type of belief systems.
I trust that this type of captivity happens when they leave the cross behind and go on about things their own way.
James,
I think that sex outside of marriage is sin. It is fornication. I have been guilty of such when I was a teenager. I have been faithful to my wife for almost 32 years…not because of me being a paragon of virtue, but by the grace of YHWH. I await your follow up question. (Should I cringe.) And I hope that Greg will be open and honest enough to answer my questions.
Van,
>>Abraham Lincoln a Christian? Sure. He was the closest thing to an atheist we ever had as a president.
OK. Maybe Lincoln was an atheist. I just had seen him on lists of Christians.
But what about Ghandi? Was he weak willed? Or Martin Luther King Jr?
Your claim is clearly false.
Do do that a lot.
Aaron C,
Not just book. It’s written about all over the place:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/bible/doesnotoppose.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece#Education
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/12/stop_twisting_the_bible_there_is_no_message_against_same_sex_marriage/
By the way — I have been perfectly clear with you before on this, yet you insist on going back to square one every time.
I am _NOT_ saying that pederasty and prostitution were the only way homosexuality was expressed back then. But it was two predominant ways is was known.
Modern, legal gay marriage is not what was being condemned in the bible.
PS: Did you ever tell me if you had Boswell’s book? I can’t discuss it with you, if you just cut-and-pasted from it – but I’d like to discuss his main premise with you. It’s a complex but fascination one.
Jon,
I accept what the bible says.
I just don’t accept the homophobia that conservatives read into the bible.
And, by the way, this is not just liberal thing. Yes, liberals are the ones who encourage progress but you conservative eventually come along — kicking and scratching and a generation late. 😉 You let the races intermarry now! That’ “redefined” marriage as well.
Greg,
You wrote:
“I have deeply studied the bible, prayed about it, read books by the best scholars and sought the counsel of wise believers.”
Who are your best scholars on this topic?
Did you get any counsel from any wise believers that homosex is wrong?
I am curious. Do you think that sex outside of marriage is fornication? Is it sin?
And one more question: Do you think that Dr. Brown is a wise believer?
Greg, I read that stealing is wrong. I do not read that white lies are wrong. I have to introspect and search deep to know that stealing is on all kinds of levels. You are reading and skipping over that sexual sin is on many levels. We have to search deep to find that if we accept minor sin in this area it can grow to even where it is today. We are in Sodom, and are comfortable with the choice. We can not just blame the deviant, but must look at all levels of the sin that got us to this queer place. A small sin can grow huge!!!! A little stealing here and there can grow into something quite dysfunctional. It all starts small. Greg, when you study on this subject you must look at the small sexual sins that bible talks about- not just what it says about the most vile behavior. If you accept this Greg, your offspring in the future is quite exposed to the most destructive sin in later generations. What did you do today to see and evaluate how our generation must turn over to God and repent?
“Van, please do call the show, OK? And please do post links to clips where I’ve been mean-spirited to callers who differ with me.”
> It’s mean spirited to call Jewish people, “The lost sheep of the house of Israel” just because they don’t agree with your incredibly naive interpretation of the Bible. That is offensive. It’s mean-spirited to lump homosexuals into a group along with drunkards, drug addicts and prostitutes as you routinely do on your show. I wouldn’t expect you to grasp that since you as a Bible believer have no objective basis for morals or ethics. The Divine Command Morality you adhere to is insane and can be used to defend any crime against humanity as the Bible clearly demonstrates over and over and over and over again on page after page after page. You cannot distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil so how in the world could you know when you are offending people?
Call the show for what? What is it you want to say to me? I don’t want to discuss the issues you talk about with someone who has such a shallow understanding of the issues he raises. You were talking about overturning Roe v Wade. This clearly shows you know nothing about separation of powers or the rolls of the different branches of our government. This is horrifying because unfortunately you have the right to vote. The abortion laws we had are unconstitutional. The Supreme Court cannot decide something is unconstitutional and then decide later it is. The only way that could ever happen is for the Constitution to be rewritten. All of these marriage amendments are unconstitutional as well. Your Republican politicians all know this and the only reason they write them and vote on them is to trick the uneducated masses into voting for them. They know very well they are all going to be overturned in court. ALL of them. Rights, abortion rights, marriage equality rights are not decided by majority rule. They are guaranteed by the Constitution which is interpreted by the courts. The fact that you do not know this and your listeners don’t either is frightening because again you people have the right to vote. You shouldn’t and please don’t.
Voting should have never been a right. It should be a priveledge like driving. You should have to pass a test and at least describe the three branches of government and what their duties are. Dr. Brown you would not pass that test at this time and neither would many of your listeners. There are probably a lot of Republicans who couldn’t pass this test either. The Tea Party people would just have to stay home next election. Tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends anyway.
Van you most certainly prove my point that you are an intellectual terrorist. There are so many issues that one could waste their time on to prove you clearly as an beastly atheist. You have already hit and run. Dostoyevsky had you pinned down over a 100 years ago. You have no come back to this great writer. You would have no case if you did call in, and that is just not what your type does anyways. G_d forgive you, you are just an imbecile.
“He who has no people has no God. You may be sure that all who cease to understand their own people and lose there connection with them at once lose to the same extent faith of their fathers, and become atheistic or indifferent . I’m speaking the truth! This is a fact which will be realized. That’s why all of you and all of us now are either beastly atheists or careless, dissolute imbeciles, and nothing more.” Fyodor Dostoyevsky
jon,
I had a hard time following the logic of your post.
I think you are making the “slippery slope” argument.
I don’t find slippery slopes arguments convincing. They strike me as a rationalization for legalism.
But, of course, I believe that one thing leads to another.
For example, I believe that heterosexual marriage is a slippery slope to homosexual marriage. 😉
Bo,
>> Who are your best scholars on this topic?
There are so many. I could assemble a bibliogrpahy but I don’t believe you would read any of them.
But how about Dr. Brown?
On today’s show, he said the homosexuality was completely taboo in Jewish culture. Paul was Jew. You do the math.
>> Did you get any counsel from any wise believers that homosex is wrong?
The ones who said that “homosex” was wrong were legalistic rather than biblica.
>> I am curious. Do you think that sex outside of marriage is fornication? Is it sin?
Which definition of marriage?
Gay marriage is legal in my state. Does that make “homosex” not sinful in your mind?
>> And one more question: Do you think that Dr. Brown is a wise believer?
On many subjects, yes. But on homosexuality, he has some serious blinders on.
But, in fairness, none of us are correct on every subject. That’s why humility and mutual respect is so important. As Christians, we have to respectfully disagree on issues like this.