Dr. Brown broadcasts live from Netanya, Israel from the offices of the Israel College of the Bible. He’ll be sharing insights from the Land, interacting with local believers, taking your calls, and more. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: I echo the prayer of Psalm 14. Oh, that salvation would come from Zion, that it would come to the Jewish people here and from here to the ends of the earth.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Paul lived with a constant burden for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and yet great expectation of their salvation. Let’s join together with him!
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This week, we’re offering two important resources from Dr. Brown, his brand new book, Can You Be Gay and Christian?, and his DVD debate with gay activist (and professing born-again Christian) Harry Knox. You can get both of these key resources for the super low price of just $25! Postage Paid! That’s a $15 savings!
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Greg,
You wrote in the last thread and then conveniently made your exit:
“I don’t believe in proof-texting scripture the way you do. I believe in interpreting the whole of the word of God and just just the parts that agree with my political agenda.”
If only there was a heart in you to believe the whole of scripture just the way it was penned. over and over we have shown you the passages about homsex being a sin worthy of the wrath of YHWH, that it is an abomination, and that it causes the loss of ones inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. You then reinterpret those passages according to your liberal agenda and say that these things in the Bible are not true.
As for your silly “proof-texting” Ad hominem attack, Messiah and Paul quoted short segments of scripture to make their points. I am doing nothing different. You can always go and check the context and try to prove that what I quote does not mean what it says. So far you just accuse me of “proof-texting” and do not show how I have used the verses out of context.
The following are “proof-texting” by your
standards.
Mt 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Ac 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Matthew 19
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
1 Timothy 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
The book of Hebrews is just one big “proof-text” by your standards. So get off of you high-horse and start believing what scripture does say instead of what your god of culture says.
You wrote, because you keep leaving the conversations before they are finished:
“PS: And I still want to know what church Bo goes to.”
I answered you question about what assembly I belong to a long time ago here:
http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2014/05/16/dr-brown-answers-your-questions-65/comment-page-3/#comment-805225
Just click the link…it is very easy.
“If only there was a heart in you to believe the whole of scripture just the way it was penned”
Bo seriously give it up already. Not everyone is going to agree with you on the interpretations and conclusions you reach on certain scriptural passages. That’s simply the nature of things in our very large, diverse world. Rather than constantly questioning and attacking peoples motives all the time, you may want to try a more productive, winsome approach. Just a suggestion.
Do you believe that there will be a final scattering of the Jews before the remnant is saved (a view similar to that taught by Ryle, Saphir, Baron, Spurgeon, Art Katz, etc.)?
If not, why—and what do you believe regarding the eschatological salvation of the Jews?
Well, this might not be as weighty as the topic our two little warriors are carrying on about but I must confess I wish I was there with the field trip.
This is a plug and shout-out for Israel College of the Bible. I was blessed to do their “Year in Israel” program ten years ago when they were based in Jerusalem. The time at the College and in the Land changed my life forever!!!!
Bo,
>>I hope you have not had to wait too long to get this terribly important information about what group I belong to. I belong to Messiah. He purchased me with His own blood. That is about it. Hopefully you were not disappointed.
Are you saying, “The Messiah”? – as in Jesus?
If you don’t attend church, you can just say so.
Why don’t you attend church?
As for me… it’s hard for me to imagine myself being a Christian outside of Christian community. I’ve spent most of my adult life serving in the church, in various capacities. (conservative, Evangelical churches, BTW)
Even so, true to my own values, I respect your understanding Christianity differently. (unless, of course, you got kicked-out of church for some terrible reason.)
Greg,
Messiah as in the one that is proclaimed in the Gospels…His name is not Jesus but Y’shua.
I never got kicked out of church. I came out in response to Revelation and 2 Corinthians.
Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
I noticed that you did not touch on the subject of how the Biblical authors use “proof-texting.” Do you care to comment?
James,
John the Baptist and Messiah were not very winsome. They told the truth even when it hurt…especially to religious people. Of course not everyone will agree with me, but they will be held accountable for not living by every word of scripture. It would do you good to repent and accept what the scripture says about homosex.
Bo,
You are the first person I’m aware of who felt like the New Testament commanded to not be a member of the body of Christ!
I gotta say, you are a unique person!
What do you do with the bulk of the New Testament which just assumes Christian fellowship? Most of the gifts of the Spirit make no sense outside of Christian community.
As for your verses — what I asked you for was a verse which put the morally in charge of the larger, non-Christian, culture.
As for your verses — I don’t see how they defend “proof texting.”
I deeply believe in reading the bible, quiting the bible, referring to the bible, writing the bible on your heart. Most of your verses are an illustration of that being done.
Proof-texting is a very different thing. That’s where you people start with a presumption and then find verses — often wildly out of context — to “prove” their foregone conclusion.
For example, one starts with the presumption that the “culture wars” are not a cynical strategy fo the GOP to drive scared Christian voters to the polls but, instead, that it is of God.
Then, they they Google “Biblegateway.com” and then cut and paste verses on to chat sites, not even pausing to consider the original intent, historical setting and context of the passage.
Wow, I mangled that sentence:
Rather,
I asked you for verses which tasks the church with changing the morality of the larger, non-Christian, culture.
Dr. Brown seems to just assume this. I’ve never heard him defend it scripturally.
Greg,
You wrote:
“You are the first person I’m aware of who felt like the New Testament commanded to not be a member of the body of Christ!”
I never said such a thing. You are twisting my words…probably on purpose as an ad hominem attack. I am definitely part of the Body of Messiah and follow through with not forsaking scriptural gatherings.
The way I use scripture is the very same way that Messiah, Paul, and Peter did. I do not think that it is proof-texting, but you call it proof-texting. Do you agree with Paul about women keeping silent? Do you agree with Messiah that marriage is between male and female? We all know that you don’t and you would call it proof-texting if we quoted those passages to prove that you were wrong.
Bo,
Jesus was very winsome. He drew lots of crowds and hung out with sinners. He didn’t attack or condemn them constantly. Rather, he spoke to them with grace and love. It was the self-righteous pharisees and ultra orthodox Jews that wanted to condemn him for this and for not following the Torah as strictly and rigidly as they did.
Whenever I read what you write Bo, and the constant negative attacks and condemnation you throw at other people, I can’t help but see you as a modern day pharisee. Yes, Jesus did tell the truth, especially to religious people. Perhaps you’d fit quite well into the category of “religious people” that Jesus often spoke out against.
Bo,
You explained your lack of church attendance with two New Testament verses.
You are the only one I know who uses the New Testament to justify not going to church.
(How is that attacking you?)
And especially those verses! The 2 Cor. 6 passage is usually read as a commandment to stay away from idolaters, not the body of Christ.
And only God knows what Revelation 18 means 😉 but I’m pretty sure it’s about Babylon, not the bride of Christ.
Unless, I suppose, you think 2.5 billion Christians are all wrong and you are the only true believer!
Bo,
You gave me another reason to think I don’t understand you at all. You said:
>> Messiah as in the one that is proclaimed in the Gospels…His name is not Jesus but Y’shua
Are we reading the same bible? .Where do you get Y’shua? You don’t need to read the Greek to know that is is Ἰησοῦς not Y’shua.
While “Jesus” isn’t a perfect transliteration, it’s not too far off.
And, yes, I know about the name Y’shua/Joshua. It’s a meaningless distinction coming a difference in language, not theology.
James,
>>Jesus was very winsome. He drew lots of crowds and hung out with sinners. He didn’t attack or condemn them constantly. Rather, he spoke to them with grace and love. It was the self-righteous pharisees and ultra orthodox Jews that wanted to condemn him for this and for not following the Torah as strictly and rigidly as they did.
Amen. Preach it, brother!
This is the part of the bible that I think Dr. Brown profoundly misunderstands.
Dr. Brown identifies with Jesus when “the world” attacks him.
But Dr. Brown is the antitheses of Jesus — the modern Pharisees love him and the sinners hate him!
GregAllen:”the modern Pharisees love him [The Person that brings me here] and the sinners hate him!”
Who are these “sinners”? People active in making their lifestyle an impulse they cant resist? SOunds like enslavement. Go and Sin no more. People who arent actively trying to make their sin a lifestyle arent angry at that. Those that do, well, thats another part of the Bible they erase.
GregAllen:”the modern Pharisees love him [The Person that brings me here] and the sinners hate him!”
Who are these “sinners”? People active in making their lifestyle an impulse they cant resist? SOunds like enslavement.
Go and Sin no more. People who arent actively trying to make their sin a lifestyle arent angry at that. Those that do, well, thats another part of the Bible they erase.
Greg,
“Dr. Brown identifies with Jesus when “the world” attacks him”
Yeah, very true. I’ve heard him use Jesus’ words in John 15:18/20 as a justification and motivation for continuing his anti-gay approach and stance when “attacked”.
This is actually one of those things that really leaves a bad taste in my mouth about Dr. Brown. He’s claiming hatred and persecution that just doesn’t really apply in any meaningful sense here.
There are all kinds of Christians around the world who are being truly persecuted and killed for their faith in Jesus Christ. Those are undoubtedly the people Jesus had in mind when he made those remarks in John, not people like Dr. Brown who might get harmless push back because of their stance on a divisive political and cultural issue.
Moreover, to take Jesus’ words there and inappropriately apply to such an unworthy situation greatly takes away from the many people who do face real, genuine persecution and hatred for their faith.
Mangus,
Take a step back and look consider Jesus’ ministry.
He fought with the Pharisees and befriended sinners.
No offense but I don’t think you really had to ask who “sinners” are. For a modern context, just listen to who gets hammered on this board. Gays, Pregnant teen girls. Liberals.
But who are the modern Pharisees? They were the religious conservatives at the time. The “Religious Right.”
That is where Dr. Brown has the ministry of Jesus completely backwards. He has the wrong people liking him and the wrong people hating him.
Dr. Brown should be a regular guest columnist on out.com, not WorldNetDaily!
James,
>>There are all kinds of Christians around the world who are being truly persecuted and killed for their faith in Jesus Christ.
I used to be a member of a persecuted church.
And I don’t mean a little push-back from a moral position.
I mean, my church bombed. A couple of times! I mean, gunmen shot dead the front office staff of our school and tried to kill our children. I mean a guy with a gun came into my own office, put a gun to my ministry staff’s head and ordered us to stop our ministry. And, that’s not all of it! I could write much more.
So, when I hear Dr. Brown cry “I’m being persecuted,” it strikes me as a persecution complex which, frankly, cheapens the experience of real persecuted Christians.
And, of course, it’s not just Dr. Brown alone. He might have the big microphone but I find that most fundamentalist Christians have this persecution complex.
And, of course, it’s not just Christians. I am convinced that it is a shared trait between the fundamentalist wings of all the major religions.
Mangus,
>> actively trying to make their sin a lifestyle
Right… as in “the gay lifestyle”
This is an example where politics have entered the church — I believe in a virally, heretical way.
(I am NOT accusing you of being a heretic! The heresy is much larger than you. It’s part of all of us.)
This language of “lifestyle” is straight out of GOP wedge politics, not the bible. It’s intended to get conservative Christians to the polls, especially in mid-term elections.
“The gay lifestyle” concept was thought up by strategists, tested on focus groups, sent out in talking point memos, pushed by the right wing media….
and is now fully entrenched in our _churches_.
I am believe this mixing or politics and faith is the signature heresy of the America church.
And Dr. Brown is up to his eyeballs in it — and I don’t think he has enough capacity for self-reflection to understand that about himself.
Greg,
I’m lost as to hearing “any” politician speaking out against the homosexual lifestyle. I’ve honestly not heard any do that. Who did you have in mind exactly?
Greg,
I’d like to hear more about your ordeal when you can tell it. That must have been so frightening! I can’t imagine it!
Folks, one quick note: This thread is ONLY for subjects covered in the show, not for other subjects. Please be kind enough to stay on topic here. Thanks.
sorry.
GregAllen:”“The gay lifestyle” concept was thought up by strategists…and is now fully entrenched in our _churches_. I am believe this mixing or politics and faith is the signature heresy of the America church.”
Yeh, well I dont know what decade youre talking about but it sure isnt something the “churches” do today.
“Dr. Brown identifies with Jesus when “the world” attacks him”
> And he says that drunkeness, drug use, pornography, abortion and things like that are, “the things of the world.” However all of these things are rampant in the Christian community. Who is getting abortions? I can tell you atheist women use protection, birth control and are selective about who they sleep with. They don’t need to get abortions. It’s all women who believe in God who get abortions and the statistics back this up. Who is struggling with pornography? Not me or any of my atheist friends. Again it’s 70% of Christian men and 40% of Christian women who struggle with porn. Who is addicted to drugs? Not me. Again it;s the Bible believers who struggle with alcohol and drugs. Who is abusing their wives and children. Again the stats tell us the stricter the beliefs the more likely there will be abuse in the home.
So I’m happy to be part of the real world. Since you people claim to be just visiting, keep your noses out of our business and stop messing up our world. Thanks.
And so arrogant Van you keep your nose on this website? Really, but you are a convincing example of the weakness of your arguments. You ignore people of science who were also theologians. You completely discount arguments that require thought. You make our points, you throw rocks but you miss every time. I am glad your here! Know that I have prayed that your soul would be in fact tormented by yourself. If you feel that, remember that prayer is more effective than strong scientific knowledge that you choose to ignore. You want to be so ignorant and arrogant that no thread will get to you. If you challenged an argument well, I would give it time. I have never given one of your silly hermit crab post a second of time.
My prayer to you Lord at this time in our generation look at our ways. Look how arrogantly we can live in plain sight of your divine love for us. Lord, send me to watch the ant hill and contemplate your ways. Lord, take arrogance out of my heart today. As a rock is thrown my way Lord may I thank you and bless you to take my attention and put it on myself. Forgive the rock thrower, may his soul be aware of the damage the demonic has on him. May his soul keep him here, watching, listening, and being prayed for. Torment this being into asking out load show me the way! May he condemn himself with his stupidity and narrow arguments corner his mind to ask for help. 1 866 34Truth. Will this crab pick up the phone? Casting stones make me stronger and in prayer, for that hermit crab THANK YOU FOR THE FAITH YOU TURN ME TO. Most high God forgive this nave.