Dr. Brown interacts with Bishop T. D. Jakes’ recent appearance on CNN, gives his commentary on some important, recent news, and share his thoughts before leaving for Israel. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Yes, there is much cultural deterioration; so now is not the time for compromise but for clarity. Let it be sounded from the pulpits around the world.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As I leave for Israel right after this show, I am reminded that the prophets were put to death not for pleasing the crowds but for speaking the truth.
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This week, we’re offering two important resources from Dr. Brown, his brand new book, Can You Be Gay and Christian?, and his DVD debate with gay activist (and professing born-again Christian) Harry Knox. You can get both of these key resources for the super low price of just $25! Postage Paid! That’s a $15 savings!
>>If it weren’t for the rise of secular humanism, skepticism and atheism Christians would still be the intolerant, bloodthirsty masses, still hunting heretics, burning books and witches and anyone who dared not believe in their absurd religion
Classic myopic fundamentalist revisionist history.
You completely edit out the many Christian social reformers, like William Booth and Martin Luther King Jr., who were at the forefront of progress.
>>Sick…you are very sick…spiritually speaking. You are deluded…spiritually deluded. You wouldn’t know a conservative hermeneutic if it grabbed you by the eye lashes and forced your eyes open. It is time to wake up Greg…way past time.
Ad hominem attack is a sure sign someone has lost the debate.
You seem to confuse your narrow, highly personal interpretation of scripture with God’s own view. Do you have any idea of how many problems in the church have been caused by this kind of international God complex?
I don’t believe in proof-texting scripture the way you do. I believe in interpreting the whole of the word of God and just just the parts that agree with my political agenda. But, despite this difference, I don’t condemn you to hell for not agreeing with me.
There is room in Christianity to disagree on issues.
PS: I sure wish you would tell me what church you are affiliated with. It could help me understand you better.
>>Ever notice how destructive the gay agenda is to human reason?
Wowie. Wow wow do you have that formula backwards.
Human reasoning is the foundation of democracy and equality.
It’s dogma and prejudice that denies some citizens equal rights.
What you call “the gay agenda” is just the American dream.
>> When Christians put into law an ordinance which prohibits giving marriage licenses to homosexual “unions”, they are not forcing morality on anyone by using the government.
Sure they are. When a lesbian senior citizen wants to spend her final dying hours with her lifelong partner and the hospital turns her away, saying “spouses only” — that’s the government.
When a hard working gay man has earned healthcare benefits from his company by his spouse dies for lack of health insurance — that’s the government.
When a gay couple pays taxes to fund the roads, sewer, fire department, police department and every other government service making business possible — but then gets turned away because they are gay. Thats the government.
When a straight married couple get relocation reimbursement for moving the family but the gay married couple has to pay out-of-pocket, — that’s the government.
And in the 29 states where it is till illegal to fire someone just for being gay — that’s the government.
When straights can marry the partner they love and gays are denied that right — that’s the government.
Can’t you see that far?
Or are you a typical conservative who can’t have compassion for others until your own loved-one tells you they are gay? Being effected personally seems to be the only way that conservative progress on moral issues.
But, you, Ray strike me as more compassionate than the typical conservative.
“People here condemn me to hell for saying this — but I came to my pro-gay position from reading the bible with a conservative hermeneutic.”
I remember Justin Lee of the Gay Christian Network also saying essentially the same thing. I think if you’re looking at the Bible from a wider frame of reference rather than simply focusing on the clobber passages exclusively then it’s quite possible to come to a pro-gay position.
I’m not sure if you’ve read Justin Lee’s book Torn, but if you have, would you say your pro-gay position from the Bible is similar to what he describes in Chapter 12 (“Whatever commandment there may be”) of his book?
>> True or False?
>>When the gay agenda uses the government to make homosexual unions equal to marriage in every legal and licensable way, they force immorality on others.
It’s called American freedom.
Despite the conservative cries of “don’t redefine marriage” the government allowed interracial marriage.
Did this force you to marry someone of another race? Of curse not.
It was simply freedom for other people to marry the partner they loved.
It will be the same for gays and in a decade or two, it will be no more controversial than interracial marriage is now.
And, conservative will then try to deny that they were, once again, on the wrong side of history.
I am trying to not frustrate you guys too much — so I’ll let you know that I may not check back here again.
I tried to answer as many of you as possible.
Let me leave with this:
The “culture wars” have done great damage to the church. This ugly mixing of faith and politics is driving people in droves away from church.
The NT does not give the church a mandate to change the larger culture. The NT does give us a mandate to act like Christ — as individuals and as a collective church.
If we loved like Jesus did, people would start coming back to the American church. But, thanks to things like the ugly “culture wars” Evangelicals are not known for their love.
PS: And I still want to know what church Bo goes to.
“I don’t believe in proof-texting scripture the way you do. I believe in interpreting the whole of the word of God and just just the parts that agree with my political agenda.”
If only there was a heart in you to believe the whole of scripture just the way it was penned. over and over we have shown you the passages about homsex being a sin worthy of the wrath of YHWH, that it is an abomination, and that it causes the loss of ones inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. You then reinterpret those passages according to your liberal agenda and say that these things in the Bible are not true.
As for your silly “proof-texting” Ad hominem attack, Messiah and Paul quoted short segments of scripture to make their points. I am doing nothing different. You can always go and check the context and try to prove that what I quote does not mean what it says. So far you just accuse me of “proof-texting” and do not show how I have used the verses out of context.
The following are “proof-texting” by your
Mt 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Ac 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
1 Timothy 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
The book of Hebrews is just one big “proof-text” by your standards. So get off of you high-horse and start believing what scripture does say instead of what your god of culture says. I answered you question a long time ago here:
Just click the link…it is very easy.
Once again you leave the conversation just in time to pretend that you have won the debate. You might never get to see my answer.
Just an observation. The early “Church” didn’t necessarily attend synagogue as there were no churches yet to attend. What the Bible says they did was “assemble themselves together” in different people’s houses. If Bo chooses to do that, which it sounded to me that he does, I don’t see anything wrong with that myself. There are many times I can’t attend church because I can’t sit in the really uncomfortable pews they build in them! What’s up with that? I guess they want to keep people awake! 🙂
Are we sure that the invention of the church building has not been half of the problem with “Christianity” from its inception? Uncomfortable pews, or padded ones for that matter, mixed with too comfortable of a lifestyle in a place that is big enough to hide in the crowd is a recipe for apostasy.
One church service I go to meets in a building at the university. Those seats are somewhat like a lecture room or movie theater seats without the cushions though. They start low and then become elevated.
I go to either a Presbyterian church, not often, a Baptist church or a non-denominational little rinky dink church that does a lot of work for the poor. Soup kitchen middle of the week and clothing donated by parishioners too. I mostly study at home as attending church doesn’t mean you’re learning the Bible. It’s for encouragement and fellowship.
The meeting of the congregation to worship was initiated by God though it was at set times, not necessarily once a week. The disciples gathered on the first day of the week, Sunday, to collect and distribute to the poor it sounds like. Get their bearings for their work ahead too. Gentiles came to do the same. So, it makes perfectly good sense, although you’re right in respect that people become complacent and ignorant of the Word if they don’t worship at home too. Although you didn’t exactly say that I read it between the lines.
“The “culture wars” have done great damage to the church. This ugly mixing of faith and politics is driving people in droves away from church.”
Lead by example and get rid of your liberal politics first. Then you will see clearly to criticize others.
Also I don’t see evidence people are leaving the evangelical church because of the “culture wars”. If so, liberal churches would be growing. They are not.
I think some live by the motto that if you say something often enough people will come to believe it.
People leaving churches in droves? Where? Maybe they’re leaving the compromised churches.
“Racism is rooted in humanism. The love of self is the god of humanism, self gratification, the happiness of man, doing what is right in your own eyes. It runs in complete opposition of Christianity, In loving your neighbor as yourself.”
> Again racism existed a long time before the rise of humanism. Your definition of humanism is not only false it’s stupid. Humanism is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Being a Christian means doing what you are told no matter what is right.
If what you said were true then we would see racist humanists. But no such people exist. We do see racist Christians everywhere especially in the Bible Belt where I live. I hear the “N” word and some of the most racist and bigoted talk coming from Christians and ONLY Christians. So take you high and mighty lies to someone else.
“Are we sure that the invention of the church building has not been half of the problem with “Christianity” from its inception?”
> Your problem has been interpreting mythology as history. No such person as Jesus Christ ever existed and that is what is bringing an end to your religion.
So you’re hanging out with a lot of Christians? I live in what’s known as the Bible Belt and I know of Afro-American racism too and more fine Christians than bigoted. Whenever you have a higher percentage of the population as one thing or another it only stands to reason that the same percentage is present in equal numbers no matter what pole you take, not that you have one to show. If there’s more Christians, there are more Christian bigots. Where is your survey on atheist bigots? Again, you’re espousing generalizations.
I find it a tad untrue anyone would pretend to “find” homosexual so called marriage because they “read the Bible”. That they can NEVER procreate should be telling enough. And before you mouth it, indeed some heterosexual marriages cant procreate…but thats due to MEDICAL issues. Homosexuals cant ever procreate because of nature. It matters.
And more proof that the whole homosexual distraction is a choice. Consider that the trendy little branding LGBTQ even recognises it as a choice. Guess what the Q stands for. Yeh, Questioning. DO you “question” when you are? Cheers
Is it “hate”, Brian R, if I choose not to associate with Islamists? Is that the new definition. I find too often a lack of forgiveness, and of course hypocrisy, from many of the JD Takes crowd that cant dispense with never ending homilies about black liberation. No thanks. I wont subject myself, my family or as many friends as I can tell to that unhealthy “theology”.
There is no race or culture that hasnt in some period of their past repressed some other group. Its self serving that 1 part of that history always gets to point the finger and 1 group to take the blame. That I chose to avoid JD Takes isnt failure to understand his juvenile excuse that once “we” have kids its OUR responsibility to raise them but rather to let those who choose their behaviour to stew in it. Sometimes that helps to break through the stubborness.
Today I couldn’t help but think about what TD Jakes said about a pro life movement, and how we ought to be concerned about how we are going to help provide for all the babies that might result frpm such a thing, and then go ahead and preach against abortion.
At least that’s what it sounded like to me.
So should we be discouraged from preaching about how evil abortion is, what a problem it is to a nation, what the consequences might be, (along with wondering how to provide for all the babies people might have) and how it negatively affects how people think, value life, and it’s virtues, as well as how they behave?
Was he saying that we must first be prepared to deal with (in love) all the people who will continue to do things that put responsibility on others, such as having more children than they can provide for, before we go ahead and preach against abortion?
Well that’s what it sounded like to me, and I don’t think that should discourage us in our message. We ought to preach against it anyway, and also think about how we can help others who have trouble providing for their own.
But before we go ahead and start providing for their needs on a regular basis, maybe we should consider that we have a gospel message, lest we be found to be making an easy way for them to put their burdens on others without taking responsibility for their own actions, for all of us do indeed have a cross to bear, and we ought to bear our own as well as bear the burdens of other at times.
When a 5 year old boy in Colorado is applauded by GLADD for declaring himself another gender, well, at least they arent mature enough to consent, right. How long before a federal judge decides thats ancient as well?
These are what being silent and complacent with the homosexual movement have brought us. Greg Allens noise about the Churches culture war…its never happened. But all good leftists need to portray the image of victimhood. And its worked well for them. Not so much for the children damaged in their cynical game. We have to pick up them pieces.
You are speaking in ignorance. Bishop Jakes doesn’t not preach a Black Liberation Theology at all. In point of fact, you are the first to raise such a claim on him. He has several white people in his congregation and does not preach a “black” message anymore than Mike preaches a “white” Domination message. You are grossly misinformed.
If you choose to avoid Bishoph Jakes then that is fine, as do I. But if you are claiming your avoidance because he espouses a Black Liberation Theology from the pulpit then you are a typical example of misjudging an individual upon your biased perception alone, and not according to knowledge.
Brian:”You are speaking in ignorance.”
I most certainly am not. Given your comment Im guessing you are the one lacking knowledge of black “liberation” theology. Search his comments about Jeremiah Wright and his juvenile response about it being the worlds fault that we arent falling all over ourselves to give supplies when others refuse to demonstrate restraint.
Show me where the Lord says bite the hand that feeds you. Or where humility should be forgotten. The burden isnt a one way street.
Again, two points and then I am done:
Where did Bishop Jakes say the “we” is in reference to “black people?” His response is more political than anything. For you to comapre him to Jeremiah Wright is like me comparing Mike to being a racist because he embraces Jonathan Edwards, who was a slave owner.
Second, Bishop Jakes was asked the direct question if he espouses to Black Liberation theology,
Q: “do you teach black liberation theology?”
A: “I am familiar with the theology….I even have some friends that do but it isn’t a part of my theology.”
You are a clear example of why the body of Christ is so divided, and it is shameful, to say the least. Again, if you don’t like is message then understood, but lying against his person is disingenuious and beneath you, if you profess to be a follower of Christ.
I love watching Christians argue about what must be believed, who must be followed and so on. More proof hat your religion is phony.
You have to consider that when it comes to the basics, the major tenets of our faith are usually not in question. Sometimes there are differences in philology but they’re unimportant to what is “not” in question.
Christians are people with different life experiences just like everyone else. We don’t crank out little robot people who are all identical.
Let’s look at this quote:
Van- “I love watching Christians argue about what must be believed, who must be followed and so on. More proof hat your religion is phony.”
I love watching Materialists argue about what must be believed, which evolutionary model must be followed and so on. More proof that your religion of evolution is phony.
Thank you, Brian, for your terribly impolite method. And I am reminded that you said you DONT support Thomas Dexter “TD” Jakes? Hmmm.
Jakes measures congregations on race. His whole beginning was championing this. Im not ready to say that the Amish or Hasidim lack something because their congregants dont look right. Notice these two groups actually have increasing populations by the way. Theyre fruitful and they multiply.
I dont think Mr Takes theology is welcoming particularly with its never ending recall to the bad side of others heritage…and never his.
These are serious concerns and sadly you felt the need, Brian, to not welcome that.
Van:”I love watching Christians argue about what must be believed, who must be followed and so on. More proof hat your religion is phony”
Must be a real cause that you make an effort to be here and then choose such an approach. Oh well, we need reminders of you as well, friend.
Having read this I thought it was really informative. I appreciate you taking the time and energy to put this short article
together. I once again find myself personally spending way too much time both reading and leaving comments.
But so what, it was still worth it!
Comments are closed.