Dr. Brown shares more of the contents from his Authentic Fire book, today lovingly challenging some of the major assertions made by Pastor John MacArthur about the charismatic movement. You’ll learn some amazing things about people like Oswald Chambers, A. W. Tozer, and Corrie Ten Boom! Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
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Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The Holy Spirit is moving wonderfully around the world in Charismatic Pentecostal circles; that should be good news for everyone, not bad news!
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Hello Dr Brown and team
When and how can we obtain the book if we live outside the USA?
Anthea, it should be available in a few days via Kindle and other e-book formats. God bless!
I was just thinking about how when I was in a cult, we received speaking in tongues during a foundational class on the Bible, and we could not take the intermediate class (which was on interpretation of tongues and prophecy as used in public meetings for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of the church) unless we were speaking in tongues fluently, and we could not be a part of leadership training programs unless we had completed certain classes (which could not be taken unless we first completed the foundational class and were speaking in tongues fluently) and in other churches, people graduate seminaries and get doctor’s degrees and don’t speak in tongues.
We didn’t have the Apostle’s Creed. We didn’t have By-Laws. We didn’t have membership other than everyone understanding that we are members of the same Body, that of the Lord Jesus Christ by faith in the gospel.
We had interpretation of tongues and /or prophecy at every meeting, and if we ever forgot to do something, it was usually receiving an offering, but someone in the group seemed to always remind us. Sometimes I was aware of it and didn’t say anything because if you wanted to give you could do that after the meeting by simply just sending a check to the organization, or talk to whoever the leadership was and give them the offering in cash or check.
It’s just different how a man couldn’t be anything if he didn’t speak in tongues, that is, he would never be in any kind of leadership position if he didn’t speak in tongues.
Everybody received speaking in tongues except for the few who did not complete the foundational class, or simply took it once and then we of those we didn’t see again, or of those who were around for a little while after taking the class and left, and those were very few.
There may have been some who did not receive and did not feel they could be a part of what was going on and therefore left, because they did not receive, but there were more, it seems to me, that though they did not speak in tongues right after the first class, that were helped by someone else and led into receiving it, and then did continue with us.
But it seems in other churches, there are so many who went on to seminaries and got degrees, who do not speak in tongues, having the Apostle’s creed, and maybe By-Laws.
It could never have been a matter of “in house debate” as to whether speaking in tongues is for today or not, in the cult (at least that’s what many people called it) I was with.
Near the end of our first class, we were told to set our things aside, stand up and say, “I love the Lord Jesus Christ.”, and thank God for filling us. We took a deep breath, then spoke in tongues on cue.
We spoke in tongues like a house on fire, and many of those who had not ever spoke in tongues received.
No creed, no membership, no By-laws, just the Word. That’s how we did it. That’s how God did it, back then.
And there were things in the foundational class that were not right. But God filled us anyway.
Regarding spiritual matters, who can see it all?
I suppose all of us have huge blind spots, so big that I could think that if we ever were to all get on a highway…what horrible wrecks there would be.
Yet God has a high way. (Is 35:8)
Ray,
What cult were you in?
I had a hard time following your post but it was not obvious to me why you call it a cult?
Typically, a cult follows a charismatic leader and is dogmatic and closed or secretive.
Does this describe your former group? You have me curious now!
Oh! To be clear, I don’t mean the “Charismatic” church movement.
I should also add… cults are also usually manipulative of their followers.
Thanks for taking on the Strange Fire issue, Michael (and for pointing out all of the notable figures in today’s broadcast and their contributions. I had no idea about many of those.) I think it is a productive debate to have right now and I have been having it in a few places also.
Cessationists think the “miraculous sign” gifts had a special purpose, but 1 Cor 14:3 says prophecy encourages/exhorts/consoles, and we obviously still need that on an ongoing basis, so why would the Holy Spirit want to stop contributing to that? I see He still “reveals secrets of the heart” — there’s no reason that can’t be useful today either. Also, 1 Cor 14:4a says speaking in a tongue (speaking mysteries to God) is useful for building oneself up — why would that be good then and not now? Newsflash: Being edified is good. (McArthur’s commentary on 1 Cor 14 suggests it is selfish — yet we edify our physical bodies with food, and wear clothes so we don’t get cold or laughed at, and edify our minds with Scripture. Should we stop doing those too because they are selfish?) Anyway those are questions cessationists haven’t been able to answer me.
I was a de facto cessationist for the first 21 years of my life and one day while I was alone just loving God, God gave me the gift of tongues, and lovingly invaded me with His saturatingly loving presence. It was then I knew how much He treasured me and relationship with me and my life has been a journey full of wonderful surprises about His love ever since. But I still sympathize with those who are on the other side of the fence, and hope we can tear it down and have unity.
Greg, I suppose I could either say the name, or simply answer some questions about what it was like, making mention of some things that were not good, but I would rather not do both.
Though they didn’t have many rules, no By laws, no membership, no creed, they did have a very high regard for leadership.
If there was trouble, it seemed you would always hear about someone not following leadership.
I’ve heard of cults as being a group that follows the teachings of one man. Well this one man did a few classes on tape, video and audio.
Whoever took the foundational class, became born again, and came out speaking in tongues.
Now, what one man can pour out the holy Spirit upon the whole group? Only Jesus as far as I know.
But this man was not Jesus. He was just a man who believed enough to teach the scriptures, enough to lead people into the new birth.