Word of Faith: A Powerful New Revelation, The True Gospel with Errors, Or Not the Gospel At All?

1. Dr. Brown,

   I’m curious about what you think of the Nicene Creed.

   Obviously, it’s the standard of orthodoxy for huge swaths of Christianity.

   Is it a standard for Pentecostals/Charismatics as well? Or have they added to it?

2. Three times Paul outlines what he calls “My Gospel”, as completely sufficient for grace through faith. I am curious why the Pentecostals and Charismatics insist on there being a “full gospel”, with other insistence of content than Paul outlines? Why does this seem to be promoted more than what Paul calls “my Gospel”. His includes what he calls “of first importance”. An undemanding love would indicate the love of God shed abroad in the world by Jesus Christ. Why do Charismatics often insist on spiritual experiences or certain components to indicate revival?

3. I believe there is a misunderstanding today about the words “descended first into the lowest parts of the earth”. (Eph 4:9)

   Many people today think of those words as refering to the Lord’s burial in the tomb, but I think of it as his first coming to be born into the world, for I read something from a Psalm which spoke of the Psalmist being formed in the womb as either the “lower (or lowest ) part of the earth.

   There’s a footnote in my 1599 Geneva Bible next to the word “lowest” in Eph 4:9, that tells me they believed it to be meaning “Down to the earth.” which is obviously a reference to his conception and being formed in the womb of his mother Mary, rather than his being buried in a tomb.

   And what does his “ascending” have to do with the resurrection or burial of Christ?

   Let’s ask ourselves which words belong together in the following?

   Ascended Resurrection
   Burial (or death) Decended

   Would you draw a line connecting the words above in a diagonal fashion? I would, for they seem to be the words associated with one another.

4. It seems to me that many use the term “Full Gospel” as meaning all of Paul’s gospel as they hope for evidence of revival, for the work God does often goes without much notice of men.

   I hope for revival and the evidence of it that I hope to see is about ministry of reconciliation, people going to one another to listen whenever there is a cause of some distress because of someone’s unrighteousness toward them, and having gone to them first, haveing not been heard, they go to someone or two among a brotherhood in Christ to hear all matters of concern (those which are the cause of someone’s suffering) by all parties involved, and are willing to walk through situations by verifying facts concerning such things that are the cause of some suffering, going to scripture, to God by prayer, pleading for mercy when mercy is due, judging a thing honestly, without partiality, doing for one and another the same, being able to find something good on every page of scripture, (for it is often necessary to find light for a darkened world, and water for the desolate soul) say what it is, thank God for it, and go on in whatever it is that God is revealing or working in the situation in order to reconcile to God by the gospel, those souls which have been taken off the path of life by the working of Satan.

5. Jabez,

   Referring more generally to your point…

   Biblical salvation is so simple: “if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”

   that it takes tremendous personal faith and grace to accept that people who believe or worship very differently than us can also be saved.

6. Question,
   Would you say that “Charisma Magazine” subscribers are basically a part of the mainstream Charismatic Church?

7. Greg, Doing a key phrase search Paul’s “My Gospel” is clear and simple enough. And it is largely about believing with the heart and confessing with the lips unto salvation. After this the hard interchanges of repentance and sanctification and transformation occur. But, the divine Plan, is the foolishness of the Cross, hard to intellectualize that fact of divine intervention.

8. Word of Faith is Heresy. When Kenneth Copeland claims that God is a being who stands about six two to six foot three weighs a couple a hundred pounds and has a hand span of about nine inches he is preaching another god. Copeland also calls God the biggest failure in the whole bible. He along with other faith teachers teach that Jesus took on the nature of Satan,was dragged into hell, tormented by demons for three days and nights and then was born again in hell. These teachings are very prominent on christian TV. Since it is the only Christian message some will eve see we need to call these wolves out and separate from them.

9. DR. BROWN

10. PLEASE ANSWER RATHER THAN AVOID THE QUESTIONS RAISED BY THESE POSTS. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THESE MATTERS BE TAKEN UP.

11. I’d be interested in your take on my question I asked earlier as shown below.

    Question,
    Would you say that “Charisma Magazine” subscribers are basically a part of the mainstream Charismatic Church?

    It appears that you are a frequent writer on the magazine website so I assume you support the magazine.

    It is also clearly shown that the magazine supports and promotes many of those who you say are on the fringe (my word) and who do not represent the mainstream of biblical Charismatics.

    If charisma magazine, both printed and web, are viewed favorably by the mainstream (biblical) charismatics. I think it proves that your position stating the health and wealth folks are on the fringe, doesn’t agree with the facts.

    I think it is fair the assume that these health and wealth folks who charisma promotes are, in fact, a part of the mainstream or they would not be promoted.

12. The idea that there are goats and sheep in probably every church across the globe is very sobering and realistic. However I think that we should examine our ministries and our those we are affiliated with, and ask is the Gospel being proclaim. We must define what the Gospel is and also if we really believe Romans 1:16. The Gospel is the person (divine/human/pre-existent/eternal/etc.) and the work (conceived by the Holy Spirit/born not of cursed seed of Adam/perfect, sinless life in unbroken communion with the Father/exemplifying divine nature and Kingly authority over creation/ substitutionary atoning/humble submission/complete absorption of the sin of whomsoever had or would believe/”It is finished”/bodily resurrection from dead solidifying that death and sin have been defeated and that God’s wrath is satisfied and He is pleased with His Son and verifies His righteousness/officially time to Adopt!!!!!! YAY)
    You proclaim this, after proclaiming the sinfulness and hopelessness of man to make amends with or to please a holy and righteous God, and you won’t have to settle for get rich quick, self-help, seeker driven nonsense, or experience driven charades. The bad news of the cursed state of man, which includes the unrighteous (licentious), the self righteous (legalist/licentious), and the moralist (legalist), followed by the Good News of the finished work of Messiah, the regenerating and sealing work of the Holy Spirit, and the promised Glorification of the Saint and you will not have to talk about God trying to improve your life or give you silly little trinkets now. Especially when He’s promised you, an enemy, to declare you righteous because of another, adopt you, remake you and then adorn you with glory in the life to come. All a sinner must do is stop trying, repent. Your sin will not satisfy it will not satisfy you, it will only store up judgment before God and leave you looking for different sin. Likewise, stop trying to earn God’s favor, you can’t. His graciousness to believers and unbelievers is the result of His kindness to all mankind. It’s meant to stir praise in His people and conviction and repentance in His enemies. So stop thinking that you don’t need the righteousness of Christ because you prayed a prayer, got baptized, go to church, pay your tithes, had a supernatural encounter, speak in tongues, quit smoking, got off of drugs, feed the homeless, operate a non-profit, love your kids, love your spouse, rescued orphans, preach the Gospel, plan to die as a martyr, or whatever. If you place your confidence in anything other than the only the only legitimately spotless Lamb who could appease the just and merciful God of the universe, then you’re deluded and hopeless and His wrath still abides on you. He must be Savior then Lord. He can’t be your master if He hasn’t freed you from sin, even if it’s pretty and beneficial sin. In the end it’s only humanism of you’re doing it to earn favor that only Jesus could/did.
    So I believe that there are malnourished Christians in seeker driven and prosperity churches (though probably the minority), those who are being sanctified by the Holy Spirit yet neglected by their leadership and church body. But for the most part the Prosperity Gospel is a pitiful excuse at best and damnable heresy at worst and these brothers and sisters need some real nourishment from the Gospel. “Jesus did not come to make bad people good, He came to make dead people live.” -Ravi Zacharias (not sure if it’s his quote originally) I pray that we preach the cursed sinfulness of man sufficiency of Jesus to save any sinner.

13. To reiterate and revise, to tell a person under the curse of sin and therefore the curse of the Law to stop sinning is like telling me to stop walking and start flying. When we preach holiness and give the Law we must give people the Gospel. We don’t preach the Law without the Gospel or repentance without faith. It’s like saying you have cancer, here’s your symptoms, now stop showing these symptoms. We need a donor, chemo, and eventually a full transplant (hope that’s not an offensive analogy …it’s also not a perfect one). Unrepentant sinner’s need the Gospel and saints, justified sinners, need the Gospel. They need to remember who sets the captives free and whose righteousness that my right standing depends on. Jesus is enough, no matter what your battle is. Yet another reason the prosperity gospel is garbage, “Jesus will give you this if you do this”…gag me. God is gracious and we are beggars.

14. @John Osgood (regarding Copeland)
    I think men like Copeland are horrifyingly deceived. Copeland has an imaginary (or worse) god who is fashioned in Mr. Copeland’s image. His god is tiny and sits under Kenneth’s sovereign authority. Copeland once said that when Jesus says “I AM,” he simply says “I AM too” (please forgive me and correct me if he ever retracted this statement). I think many others when you get to the core of what they’re teaching are off tilt. Jesse Duplantis made my jaw drop with his telling of a supposed “conversation” that he had with God where God literally came to Jesse for advice and help. Jesse said that he essentially told God not to reprobate a man because he could convert the man. When man grows in importance and stature, while God shrinks in power, glory or sovereignty then it’s time to start raising concerns and/or start packing your bags, your minister is headed astray. This is why I think the “strange fire” ordeal is such a relevant discussion. You have men who absolutely reject anything and everything experiential and on the flip side you have those who accept everything and anything experiential. Men and women need to swallow their pride and say “does this shoe fit?” I thought that Mr. Johnson and Dr. Brown both had relevant critiques last week, yet both of them skirted around some strong points that the other made. One of which was Dr. Brown talking about examining a ministry’s “statement of faith.” I’m sure that there are a ton of ministries with whom all would be in agreement with their statement of faith, but does their supposed affirmation of these core, essential doctrines flow into their teaching. Some even negate these doctrines constantly. Scary stuff, examine your pastor and hear what he’s really saying. Hopefully he’s using scripture, and using it accurately. I’m not saying be the eternal skeptic who calls himself a Berean but one who is more committed to God’s word than he is bells, whistles, and experiential moves. I can’t totally be on board with Dr. MacArthur, and he did make some broad and ignorant statements, but the issue really comes down to whether the Gospel, the sufficiency and sovereignty of the Savior and Lord Jesus, is the focal point of any worship service.

15. Praise The Lord Dear Pastor,
    Shalom and glad tidings from Kenya. We are well and pray this year will be full of blessings for you and yours.I Minister unto the Lords Flock in Kenya ,East Africa. I have been a minister of the word for 30+ years. As i was perusing your site, i was amazed moved beyond words at the love exhibited therein. I reasoned that you qualify to be my mentors. That is solely why i write, seeing we are living in perilous times as prophesied in Matthew 24
    May i say our Church, House of Worship Assemblies is not affiliated in any way with others either here or outside Africa. We are an independent entity led by the Holy Spirit and only willing to walk with others of like mind.
    We know Christ’s second coming is imminent hence the need to watch and pray
    I have pursued theological studies and hold a Diploma in leadership. I would not hesitate to pursue more studies ,especially in your side of the Atlantic to hone my leadership skills. My effective leadership skills are as a benefit of the studies i have undertaken. I have had no one to take my hand here in Africa or any other part of the universe.
    Let us know if working together for the kingdom is even a possibility. We would welcome you to our country and arrange for you to host seminars and teaching sessions
    Blessings in Jesus’ Name
    Rev, Francis

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