It is one thing to say that abortion or homosexual practice is wrong. It’s another thing to back our convictions with the Scriptures. What then are the best arguments to use to back our views, and how do we respond to those who reject our interpretation of the Word? Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: If we have the heart of God we will have a heart that beats for the unborn and we will stand up to oppose the shedding of innocent blood.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: It’s not just a matter of looking at a verse or two that speak against homosexual practice, it’s the recognition that the entire Bible presupposes that God has ordained heterosexuality.
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Circumcision was a completely different Covenant from the Sinai Covenant!
The first Adam had a WIFE; later on, the last Adam was made and He has a WIFE – if I try REALLY hard, I MIGHT be able to deduce that God never changed His Mind throughout the course of time… yeah, yeah rings a bell (“same, yesterday today and forever”).
Several times, and on today’s show, I’ve heard Dr. Brown say, “The Bible presumes…. [his position]” as if that settles the argument.
Hardly! This is an unusual and highly problematic hermeneutic.
There were many things presumed back then that are not proscriptive for today.
The presumption of slavery, for example. Or the presumption that women are owned by their men.
Or — relevant to today’s show — the presumption that marriages are arranged for the purpose of clan expansion and tribal alliances.
Several times, and on today’s show, I’ve heard Dr. Brown say, “The Bible presumes…. [his position]” as if that settles the argument.
Hardly! This is an unusual and highly problematic hermeneutic.
There were many things presumed back then that are not proscriptive for today.
The presumption of slavery, for example. Or the presumption that women are owned by their men.
Or — relevant to today’s show — the presumption that marriages are arranged for the purpose of clan expansion and tribal alliances.
———-
(please excuse the possible double post. I think I mistyped my email address on the first one.)
Greg, could you demonstrate from the scriptures where it is taught that “women are owned by their men”? Or do you mean that it was in fact that way in the times some of the scriptures were written, so the teachings therefore are only relevant in that context?
scripture backing the Life side.
So don’t be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows. … “But every hair of the hairs of your heads is numbered, therefore you shall not be afraid, because you are … by it, will be great losers at last; for Christ will not know them, will not own them, nor show them favour. … Luke Chapter 12
any opinions? is a fetus more valuable than a sparrow? the hairs on the head is that not G_d giving life – even in conception- every detail known- and created?
Having a very difficult time listening to this podcast. Some of the most horrific stories i’ve heard. Certainly it would be easier to stick our heads in the sand and ignore reality.
Greg Allen,
There is still a conversation that you are ignoring and not showing how the scriptures that I posted agree with your view of abortion, i.e. that it is fine for a woman to chose to murder her baby just because it does not happen to be born yet. Are you going you going to continue to take potshots at Dr. Brown or enter into a real discussion that you initiated? Here’s the link:
http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2013/05/15/why-sin-doesnt-work-and-pro-life-victories-to-build-on/#comment-327854
Here is the discussion:
You wrote:
“Thanks for the answer but your verses don’t address the issue of abortion,
… unless you _assume_ that all stages of per-natal life are human.
But don’t confuse your assumption (and limited human reasoning) with a clear commandment from God.”
Exodus 21
22 “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 “But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
24 “eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 “burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
So, if someone causes any injury to a woman, and thus her preborn “child,” (and that is what the Bible calls the unborn…children, not nonpersons or fetuses or embryos, etc.) then the person that causes such harm to the unborn must give life for life if death is the result. The Hebrew word for this unborn “child” is yehled. It means child. The unborn in the Bible are considered children just as much as the born “yehledim” (children). No differentiation is made in the judgment for harm coming to the unborn or the born.
You see, it is not a matter of me assuming that an unborn baby is a child; it is that the Creator of the universe and of mankind, who made us in His image, calls the unborn, “children”…and thus human. The commandment from YHWH is clear… “life for life”…adult life for prenatal life, at that. The worth and therefor the status of the unborn and the born is equal.
Luke 1
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
36 “Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren.
37 “For with God nothing will be impossible.”
38 Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah,
40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43 “But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
The above passage tells us that Mary is already the Mother of a person. A human. Already Elizabeth’s Master. Mary was only a few days pregnant. And the fruit of her womb was already considered blessed. Would we say that of a few cells of unhuman life or of a cancerous tumor? The unborn in Elizabeths womb was called a baby. And you guessed it; it is the Greek word for a young child. John the Baptist was already a human too. As a matter of fact he was filled with the Holy Spirit while in his mother’s womb. (Luke 1:15)
So, both the the older Hebrew and the newer Greek scriptures consider unborn/prenatal-life, even just conceived-life, to be human babies.
It appears that you have confused “your assumption (and limited human reasoning)” for the a lack of a clear commandment from YHWH. You assume that not all stages of prenatal-life are human. You never gave us your definition of life, but now we see that you think that a preborn baby has life but not humanity. What kind of life do you think the unborn have? Bird-life? Fish-life? Animal-life? Everything that is living, is some “kind” of life. There is no such thing as simply life, with no classification. Scripturally speaking,all organisms reproduce after their “kind.”
Shalom