In the first hour, Dr. Brown discusses the new book by Dr. James White, What Every Christian Needs to Know about the Quran. In the second hour, he will discuss his differences with Mikey Weinstein, who sees evangelical Christians as potentially dangerous blood thirsty monsters, and then Dr. Brown will focus on the need overcome the fear of Islamophobia. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: God’s heart beats deeply for more than one and half billion Muslims in the world today. Some of them are so near and yet so far. Let’s pray that the truth of the gospel will set them free!
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As Jews we have been called to be world changers. We have a disproportionate influence for good or for bad. Let’s all pray that the Jewish people will align themselves with the purposes of God for the good of the world.
SPECIAL OFFER! THIS WEEK ONLY!
Recieve the 3 Teaching Series MP3 Bundle: Foundations of Intercession, Foundations of Prayer, and Spiritual Warefare for Your Gift of $25 or More! Postage Paid!
Call 1-800-278-9978 or Order Online!
Other Resources:
i commend the host and the guest on today’s show for having the ability to simply discuss today’s topic. two highly respected people, thank you for this other view point.
Right: the Jesus of Islam, sadly, is “another Jesus”; their “Gospel” “no Gospel at all” – “another Gospel”.
re Mickey Weinstein – if we do soul search in the Christian sector we do have a smaller part of the body that does apostolise the world (Jews, and non Christians in a negative way. I have personally had some of this group who is in the name of Jesus have not heard another point of view- and only respond “have you been born again?” this group of dominion christian’s is i think what Mickey is talking about. i disagree with about 85% of what Weinstein argues, however i do understand what part of the body he is fighting against- there is a part of the body – that really does the whole a
disservice. this small group that he is talking about is what is an ingredient in antisemitism.
we just can not ignore the part that Mickey is talking about.
In bible college, I was active in a military evangelism group.
To be honest — I think we clearly crossed the separation between church and state.
The local military units gave us access that kind of surprised even us. We interpreted this as a miracle from God but, in retrospect, I think it was just favoritism towards Evangelicals by the military.
While I wouldn’t call us “monsters” I think this is the kind of pro-Christian bias in the military that Mikey Weinstein opposes.
It was only later that I came to appreciate the value of a strict separation of church and state. It’s not just for the state but also for the church.
A wall between church and state is a win-win for both.
jon,
Christian Dominionists are not just highly zealous Evangelicals.
The are a distinct religio-political movement that, in my observation, is supremacist and eliminationist.
Basically put — they are the Christian equivalent of the Islamicists.
Greg, you make some great observations. Micky W is quite possibly the next paul- Micky with G_ds intervention from strong prayer could become Mike and a man that shares the messiah with the world. i will strongly pray for him. Micky claims to pray 3 times a day- let us pray that the holy spirit change his heart and reveal to Micky the way saul had his life changed.
Greg what would you think of a debate with Micky vs. Michael?
jon,
Wow, wow Mickey as the next Paul! I wonder what he would think of that? He certainly seems to have the passion!
I think they sort of did have a debate, didn’t they?
I didn’t hear the whole show and I’m not sure I figured him out. He would take some reasonable positions and then swing to inflammatory rhetoric.
I would criticize Dr. Brown a bit in that regard as well. He said he wanted a civil debate but then led-off with calling Weinstein a bigot. Not a good start!
If I’m not mistaken, “Dominionists” are Christians who believe Christ will not return until they have taken control of the kingdoms of this world – but they are not that many, I don’t think.
i definitely have to defend dr. brown here-
Greg, he let him speak, and weinstein i am sure agrees. micky was able to explain his position, and this was a very civil exchange.
Greg,
I could not have been more civil, given the extraordinarily ugly, profanity-laced, even violent comments made by Mikey W. I had a page of them sitting in front of me, and most of them I could not repeat on the air. I told him plainly and honestly that they were some of the most intolerant, bigoted, hateful, Christophobic words I had ever heard and then asked him gently to explain himself. Once again, you need to listen more carefully — especially before you post a comment.
Greg, we have not had another paul for 2000 years, I have prayed deeply for G_d to speak in Weinsteins heart. If indeed he does pray 3 times a day in Hebrew, and Dr. Brown pleads for a change in his heart- why not have a saul/paul event?- what a revolution that would be!
micky already has the correct phone number and he is calling in daily, what will the reply be from the G_d of Israel?
Micheal,
He didn’t strike me “Christophobic” in the part of the show that I heard. Maybe he comes across that way in his writing but not in person. I’ve met people like that.
By the way, do you like the Christophobic label? I don’t.
I sometimes use “homophobic” only because it is standard language but I hope it doesn’t spread.
I think “anti-Christian bigot” is a better descriptor of the people I know who are generally hostile to Christianity.
What? Mikey Weinstein was virulently antichristian!
Dan1el,
There are some good articles on the Dominionism. I just refreshed my memory with the Wikipedia article, which seem OK.
Part of the problem is that the movement is not very centralized. Also, apparently, some in the movement don’t like the title.
In a former church of mine, we had a sub-group of Dominionists oust our pastor.
In talking with them, their view of church and government seemed very much like the conservative Muslim countries I have lived in – or even more extreme!
Greg Allen,
You’ve never spoken Truth since you first started commenting on this site – my suggestion to you is to get saved.
jon,
I was thinking of your desire to have a “Paul” in modern society.
My suggestion? Richard Dawkins
Wouldn’t that be something if the Holy Spirit got a hold of him!
Dan1el,
That is really hurtful of you.
No everyone who disagrees agrees with you is a liar going to hell.
Daniel,
What did he say that was virulently anti-Cristian?
Maybe I missed it.
I heard him say that he was against the dominionist wing of Christianity but that he had not problem with other Christians.
I think he said that he supports Christians’ right to evangelize. (I was driving the car, so I may have not got that right.)
Greg Allen,
The most LOVING thing to do is warn you so that you do NOT end up going to hell (even if it “hurts”) – I don’t have the power to send you to hell with my words; I’m just warning you that you do not bear the fruit of a righteous tree in your inability to perceive or communicate Truth.
The mere fact that you defend gay marriage shows you do not know Christ.
Greg Allen,
By Mike Weinstein’s standard, then, a surgeon removing a cancerous tumor should not just remove the tumor but all the vital organs surrounding the tumor – he is not even hiding his hatred but very openly opposing the basic tenets of our faith.
His excuse that he is defending the military against “Dominionist” Christianity is (to me) a smokescreen for some other motive of his: anyone who really cared about Christians would make VERY CERTAIN that they would not do or say anything that could be construed so as to impinge on their basic religious liberty to spread the Gospel.
It isn’t rocket science.
Dan1el,
I was also told I was going to hell for defending equal rights for women. Now, many of those same people, allow their wives and daughters to go to church without their heads covered.
I love Jesus. Believe the bible. Worship God and have had a born-again experience
Yet, because I disagree with you on one issue, you think I can’t possibly know Jesus.
I would suggest, brother, that you have added something to the scriptures.
Daniel,
What you just wrote about Weinstein, I did not hear in the show.
Do you known about him beyond that? Michael says that he has written terrible things. Maybe you read those.
By the way, I would encourage you to be careful not to bear false witness.
Daniel,
I gotta go but I will check back and read what you have to say.
I’d like to convince you that we Christians can disagree all the way to heaven!
Greg Allen,
I won’t be going back and forth with you (I already know you are not interested in the Truth); just thought I’d speak out in Truth. Hope you repent some day, because you are CAN’T be in right relationship with Christ if you defend gay marriage or Weinstein or any of the other absurd things like those.
A few things (and I won’t have time to say more):
1) I have been in the evangelical camp for 41 years and don’t personally know a single “domininionist.” It is a label given to us by outsiders who do not understand our message and division. I’ve read a few books that by folks would fit in that camp, but I’ve never worked with one such person and, again, I don’t personally know even one in the world.
2) I used “Christophobic” to counter Mikey W.’s EXTREME rhetoric, especially when you recognize it says that 38 million Americans fit his horrific description! For those who doubt, search for his quotes online. No doubt about this one.
lively debate on this board, and that is good to see. Bottom line for Christian’s is to have the spirit with us to reach out and to share with the world. We have all seen and MB has written books on this subject- Our Hands are Stained with His Blood.. I want to to have the proper spirit and not have a fanatic out reach. This is why i love how MB and his ministry. Thanks to all the participants on this board, and let us support financially also what MB is doing. If he has any room on the airplane in the future, we need to get on board and reach a starving world with his word. Greg i am personally inviting you !
RE post number 16.
Greg, we will take Richard Dawkins- and GREG!
we love you brother, and glad your listening and posting. You have tuned into the right station, get ready for a revolutionary way of loving our world- these are soon to be the days of our Messiah!!
You are very kind, Jon — and I appreciate the support!
Dr Brown: Just to be clear — I am not accusing you. It never occurred to me that you might be. But I did attend church with people who were identified as such by out denominational leadership. So, I feel like I have a familiarity with them.
They believed their interpretation of the Bible should be the law of the land. American should be Christian in the same way that Saudi Arabia is Muslim.
Jon,
Seriously? Because I disagree with you on the the gay issue, you can’t distinguish me from Richard Dawkins?
I’m a born again, Jesus loving Christian.
But, God’s Grace isn’t sufficient for me because I disagree with you on a few passages of scripture!
At Dr. Browns encouragement, I went over to Weinstein’s to read his EXTREMIST, profanity-laden Christophobic rhetoric.
I read about ten pages, three news letters and watched a video. I didn’t notice any profanity at all.
While, he clearly is against Christian groups using the military to evangelize, I would not call that extremism. Separation of church and state the long-standing law of the land and that is the basis of his campaign.
I’m giving you guys the benefit of the doubt but I’m still waiting for some specifics.
I have no doubt the Weinstein could be virulently anti-Christian — I just haven’t seen it yet.
Can you do this for me?
Go over to
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org
and find a link to a page that is profanity-filled or extremely anti-Christian.
Paste it here.
I’d like to read it myself before I risk bearing false witness against him.
Greg Allen,
“Seriously? Just because I disagree with you on _________
-delivering babies into toilets; mocking their swimming motions
-worshipping satan
-ritual murder and child sexual abuse
-illicit drug abuse
-alcoholism
_______ I can’t know Jesus?”
No, Greg, not at all! Where would you get an idea like that?
There is NO wrong, except WARNING that something is wrong!
After all, there IS a(n arbitrarily-chosen) part of the Bible that says “don’t judge”!
You can do all these things, and more, and be “in” with God!
Of course, if you went to the church in Corinth, and took Communion, God would probably kill you Himself [1 Co 11] – but why let reality concern you?
Dominionist theology is alive and well. If you look up those involved in the New Apostolic Reformation you will find a theology who believe that the offices of Apostles and Prophets are being restored. One well known leader of this movement is C. Peter Wagner, a former professor at Fuller Theological Seminary. The movement coincides with the church growth movement. But there are some unique aspects to fulfilling the Great Commission. The end game on this theology is that Christians are to rule the nations. There is an emphasis on leadership which overshadows servant hood. There is also a prevalent postmillennialism eschatology. The belief is that Christ will return to find Christians already ruling the earth.
Anyone who believes God wants us to use the military as a “weapon of Christ” is (simply put) biblically illiterate…
John 18:36
Jesus answered,
“My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews; but my kingdom is not from the world.”
2 Co 10:3,4
For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh.
For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.
The war we are fighting is a SPIRITUAL war – a war in which bullets are useless.
The way to stop an iteration of Dominionism that calls for physical violence to spread is to merely teach it away – but why do that when you can demonize all Christians and criminalize Christian activities? Makes perfect sense to me! Next, we should criminalize ALL Islam, because there is a small percentage of radical Muslims among them. Then, we should outlaw all politics, because there are some corrupt politicians. Etc., Etc., Etc.,
Greg,
Honestly, I’m not sure if you’re a sincere follower of Jesus or if you’re here to challenge. Would you just make that point clear so I’ll know how to respond?
I had to stop listening to several of Mikey W.’s audio clips because of the constant profanity, but if you want to read some extremist quotes for yourself, here you go: http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/38272018.html. And for all your concern about being a false witness, it seems you have no problem with raising questions about the integrity of what we do on the show, which once again makes me wonder who you are and where you’re coming from. So, please do let me know. Thanks!
Doug,
I’m quite familiar with Peter Wagner and his theology, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the way “dominionists” are portrayed by the secular critics no more than historic postmilleniallism did. Rather, these groups believe that the the gospel will turn the hearts of people around the world and Christian leaders will rise to the top in every area of society. I don’t see this happening myself, but it is hardly a violent threat to take over the world!
Dr. Brown,
I agree that secular critics should not be the measure to evaluate the NAR or similar groups. At the same time Christians should be aware of how the outside would will perceive their statements.
Here is a youtube clip of a sermon by Jim Laffoon-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-OJNk5U2II
Let me suggest whatever good intent Mr. Lafoon may possess, his words lend themselves to fodder for those who are seeking something to criticize.
But anyone who is going to stage a coup would not speak about it publicly. Something doesn’t add up.
Doug,
With all respect, who is Jim Lafoon? This is the first time I’ve heard of him.
Let me give you some context which you are probably more familiar. After Bob Weiner’s group Maranatha was dismantled some leaders from the dismantled groupformed Morning Star, which more recently became Every Nation Church. Jim Lafoon’s biography can be found on Every Nation’s International Apostolic Team webpage- http://www.everynation.org/about/international-apostolic-team/
Part of Every Nation’s leadership is Dr. Rice Broocks (also listed on the Apostolic Team)who was a contributor to Peter Wagner’s The “New Apostolic Churches.” Peter Wagner has taught at Every Nations schools and conferences. The Wikipedia entry on Every Nation Church indicates that Jim Lafoon was part of Wagner’s “Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders.” These are the reasons why is why I link Jim Laffoon with Peter Wagner.
Doug, Bob Weiner is a dear friend of mine for many years, and one of my close friends serves on Rice Brooks’ pastoral staff — and neither of these men have anything to do with an aggressive, potentially violent dominionist theology.
I apologize for my poor communication skills. Given your guest’s accusations I should have more sensitive to how my post would be perceived. I do not mean to imply these men represent an aggressive or potentially violent dominionist theology.
Thank you for having on the Pastor at the end of the program to expose the fellows bigoted track record. I suspected it was bad and wasn’t disappointed.
I was most disturbed at the verbal tirade I heard from the lips of Mickie Weinstein as well as the clips cited by Dr. Brown. Setting aside for a minute any possible point he might have about superior officers or non-coms using their authority to “promote” Christianity or Christian principles.
What disturbs me to my core is the use of physical analogies in Weinstein’s rhetoric to describe other human beings. Terms like, “Bloody monsters,” “sucking chest wounds,” “weaponized,” “gangs,” “terrorists,” and more. This very kind of “graphic” language has been used throughout history to dehumanize various individuals and groups, especially the Jews. What started out as “picturesque” language was soon latched onto by the ignorant who used the descriptions to violently “right the wrongs and injustice” of the “monsters” and “gangs.”
Setting aside the validly of any possible impropriety of a superior toward subordinates within the military, the deliberate use of this inflammatory language makes me question what is the real motivation of Weinstein.
I believe we are seeing the beginning of the fulfillment of the scripture, Matthew 10:22 (NASB)
22 “You will be hated by all because of My name . . .” and even John 16:2 (NASB)
2 “. . . an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.”
I hope I’m wrong but I take this very seriously and see it as an ominous outgrowth of the growing trend of “Christians are the real problem.”
All clear, Doug.