Dr. Brown talks about the beauty and power of God’s law and how it serves as a moral and spiritual guide for believers even today as well as its principles are needed in society. Dr. Brown will also explain the perils of legalism. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Let’s be like Jesus, let’s be like Paul, let’s be like the Apostles, and let’s love the law of God! Let’s love every word of God and let’s be empowered by His grace to live it out!
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As we are freed from the clutches of legalism and externally imposed religion, let us not be freed from the clutches of God’s righteous law, but let us live by them with the power of the Spirit!
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These ignorant men need to stop teaching – they are MISLEADING people!!! God have mercy and may they turn back to the Truth and may God close their mouths that they should not speak until they receive correct teaching! God have mercy and clean this mess up!
dr brown, you mislead by not distinguishing the tangled complexities of legalistic law and Torah law. to a lesser degree, its like the extreme claims in pharisaic derived rabbinic judaism vs the teaching of moses.
We are still to follow the torah laws faithfully DEUT. 6:25 “This is how we’ll have the Lord’s approval: If we faithfully obey all these laws in the presence of the Lord our God, as he has commanded us.”
AND forever DEUT. 29:29 “Some things are hidden. They belong to the Lord our God. But the things that have been revealed in these teachings belong to us and to our children forever. We must obey every word of these teachings.”
we know yeshua supported it matt 5:17-19, so here is what the disciples said…
1 john 2:3-6 “3 We are sure that we know Christ if we obey his commandments. 4 The person who says, “I know him,” but doesn’t obey his commandments is a liar. The truth isn’t in that person. 5 But whoever obeys what Christ says is the kind of person in whom God’s love is perfected. That’s how we know we are in Christ. 6 Those who say that they live in him must live the same way he lived.”
please dr brown, correct this error you have taught. May God be with you.
Talking about the hyper-grace teachers.
Many are teaching wonderful things about God’s grace, but some have mixed in some serious errors along the way that are hurting people more than helping them. See http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/38297-confronting-the-error-of-hyper-grace and http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/38394-hyper-grace-horror-stories
Right, that distinction ought to be made out of respect.
Thanks for this message, Dr. Brown. I found the majority of it quite edifying. Of course, I also have a couple of disagreements.
Your Bottom line was this:
“Bottom line. As we are free from the clutches legalism and externally imposed religion, let us not be free from the clutches of God’s righteous laws. Let us live by them in the power of the Spirit.”
I agree.
You also said something along these lines:
We do them because we have been made righteous not to become righteous.
Of course I have said that many times on many threads in the past.
But you also said something along these lines:
We are free to keep the feasts as long as it is not out of obligation.
My take is this:
If we have been grafted into Israel and are no longer gentiles and strangers and foreigners and that now we are partakers of covenants of promise, as Paul tells us in Romans and Ephesians, then we are under as much obligation as Israel is. Not obligation in sense that we have to do them to be saved, but under the obligation to be holy and obedient children…out of gratitude and love for YHWH and His law that he desires to write on our hearts.
Jeremiah told us that the new covenant would be made with Israel and Judah. We do not partake of this covenant without being grafted in to Israel. The law that Jeremiah spoke of being written on our hearts this time, instead of on stone, is none other than what what always considered to be YHWH’s law.
YHWH found fault with us not His perfect law. (I believe you also made special note of this in your broadcast.) Outward imposed commandments never bring righteousness. It must come from within the heart. Righteousness does not change definitions from the Hebrew scriptures to the ones we have recorded in Greek. Neither does holiness. There is a new covenant but not a new law. It just gets written on the inside instead of the outside.
We should not be deceived into thinking that we are righteous if we are not practicing Biblical righteousness. (New Testament righteousness is no different than “Old Testament” righteousness. No one is made righteous by the law…ever was or ever will be.) The carnal mind cannot subject itself to YHWH’s law. We deceive ourselves when we are hearers of YHWH’s law but not doers or it.
If we have been empowered by grace and the Spirit of YHWH to live out YHWH’s law, as you and both assert, then let it be this:
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Every word! Not just the ones that make sense to our culture or our church or our logic. For His thoughts are so much higher than ours. Who are we to decide which ones we are to be obligated to or not. That would be eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and making ourselves our own elohim all over again. Eating from the tree of life is when we simply obey out of a purified heart that is full of love for YHWH which entails keeping YHWH’s commandments. Let us endure till the end instead of allowing lawbreaking to ruin our love.
Mt 24:12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Re 14:Re 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
Re 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
The law of YHWH is good and righteous and holy and spiritual…even the parts that go against our theology.
Shalom
Thanks for your post, Bo!
The Israel of God is no longer under obligation to keep feasts and such but is free to do so, for the old covenant has passed and the new covenant is what God wants all who wish to be saved to enter into.
If we are truly walking by the spirit of God we would not violate any moral law of God. Reading the law is good for us to learn about right and wrong, the difference between one thing and another, and teaches us to exercise discernment, discretion, humility, patience, etc.
The law had it’s place over men who were not born again by the spirit of God, and who were not entered into the new covenant by his grace in Christ Jesus.
The apostle Paul gave us some examples by his own life, living by the spirit of Christ, feely taking a vow if he wanted to in order to win others to the gospel. He had the liberty to do so, for where the spirit of God is there is liberty. He used that liberty to influence others and to teach them the right way which is in Christ Jesus.
The law itself testifies against the legalism of man, telling us it’s a violation of the law of God, and a corrupion of the fallen nature of man.
I believe David saw the goodness of the Lord in his law and that righteousness which he saw had a profound effect upon his soul.
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Can we reduce the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the “Old Testament,” to simply principles to live by? Or rather, should we? Are the main points the only points? Do the details no longer matter, but only the essence? How did our Messiah look at the commandments in the Bible of His day? Or, at the very least, what did He say about them? Was He a slogan maker or a careful and accurate teacher of truth? Did He have in mind the reducing of scripture to 2 main themes and relegating the details to nonessentiality or immateriality?
Matthew 22
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
What does it mean that the rest of scripture hangs on these two? Does it mean that the rest of the commandments are done away with by them? Does it mean that we can have sentimental emotions for YHWH and our neighbor and ignore the details that are lain out in the Law of YHWH? These two are said to be the greatest commandments in YHWH’s law…are the only ones? How much of the law can we rightly or righteously ignore?
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Maybe we cannot ignore even the least if we want to be called great in YHWH’s kingdom. Maybe none of the commandments should be sidestepped. But what if we do not aspire to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven? What if mediocrity and living by truisms is our way of life? What if we do not like the sound of teaching others to keep even the least important of YHWH’s commandments? How unimportant are those least commandments that YHWH painstakingly included in His revelation to us? Is it fine with Him that we just major on the big 2 or 10 (usually only 9 as keeping the seventh day holy is usually excluded) and not sweat the small stuff?
Luke 11
42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Are we really to not leave the smallest commandments undone?
Matthew 23
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Certainly the inside of the cup must be made clean first…but should we leave the outside dirty? Maybe the two greatest commandments are cleansers of the inside of the cup and the other commandments are the abrasives and polishers that make the outside shine? Maybe the least commandments also have a polishing effect on the inside when used with the great commandments.
Matthew 4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Hmmm? Every word? Is YHWH’s law perfect? What would happen if we chiseled away on it here and there to sculpt a newer and more acceptable piece of art? What would happen if we added some nice decorations and some brighter colors? Would it still be perfect? Or tainted? Messiah certainly rebuked the religious leaders of His day for adding their own commandments to it? What would He say to our religious leaders?
Matthew 15
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Do we also have blind leaders of the blind? Are there ditches on both sides of the road?
Shalom
True Christians understand that they are kept by the power of God through the holy Spirit and not by the power of the law.
I’m finding the word law interesting. In my dictionary it speaks of 1. established rules of conduct enforced by legislation, etc. 2. the branch of knowledge dealing with such rules; jurisprudence.
When Soloman talked of keeping the law of God which he also call his law, (Prov 3:1 KJV) I think he was talking about the law of commandments similar to def 1 above, but also something more, that which is similar to def. 2 above, and that is wisdom and understanding.
Both together are a part of the law of God, yet a man could be speaking of the law only as def 1 above. It depends on what he is talking about.
We are kept by the word of God and by his spirit through faith, by his grace through Jesus Christ.
Paul talked about the law (def 1) as not having the power to save a soul because it was weak through the flesh. (Rom 8:3) I think he may have been including def 2 also, though if a man have it (wisdom and understanding) and walk in it, he will be kept by the power of God.
Law can mean several things.
It often seemed to me that wisdom being such a precious gift, was so easily lost.
I suppose now, that wisdom was hid more often than lost. Maybe wisdom can be lost in the sense that we forget to walk in it, or maybe forget how to. Maybe that’s why Soloman made such a point about taking hold of it and not letting it go.
Ray,
One thing Solomon was quite clear about is keeping YHWH’s commandments. After he tried out everything under the sun. He was not speaking of wisdom in some generic sense here.
Ecclesiastes 12
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Shalom
Every Christian will be judged according to his obedience to God, not according to the letter of the law.
Ray,
Do you have a Bible verse for that statement? Why is “obedience to God” different than obeying what He inspired to be written? Who said anything about being judged according to the letter of the law?
Shalom
Since the Christian is not under the law for righteousness, he isn’t required to keep the whole law. He’s under the requirements of God by the new testament, not the old covenant.
Since God does not require the Christian to attend all Jewish feasts, nor does he require him to refrain from eating certain meats, nor keeping of holy days as used to be required when men were under the law in the old covenant, God will not be judging us for not doing the things he never rwquired us to do, rather we will be judged according to whether or not we lived in obedience to his will or not, whatever that may be. Where we have disobeyed him we will suffer consequences for disobedience. If we repented and learned obedience there will be some kind of reward for us, some kind of favor, some kind of blessing, which we might have missed out on if we had been disobedient to his will.
I don’t know what all we will go through in the future nor do I know what all of his judgment will be, but I know, whether or not I kept the letter of the law as if I was under the old covenant will not be the matter at hand in the day of judgment, for the reasons given in the gospel of Paul which is the gospel of Christ.
A man doesn’t need to say “letter of the law” to be putting it on people all the time.
Some people go around putting people under the law when they are not put there by God, but rather have been put into something different, being put into the body of Christ instead, and having Christ as the head.
Ray,
What do you do with this passage? Why does it not mean what it says?
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Doesn’t the above passage say that we are rewarded according to how diligent we were to keep even the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same? Isn’t Messiah referencing YHWH’s law? Doesn’t He say that none of the law will pass away until all heaven and earth pass away? Is that not when all is fulfilled?
Shalom
Bo, When a Christian today doesn’t attend a Jewish feast, he doesn’t break the commandment, for he isn’t under the command of God to do so. That was for another time and another group of people.
When a Christian decides not to attend a Jewish feast, or celebrate with them in their holy day, he isn’t teaching other men to abstain from it,
nor is he telling those participating to abstain from that activity.
These things don’t fall under what Jesus was talking about in MT 5, the verses you just gave.
There were men in the days of the apostle Paul who accused him of teaching against the law, (Acts 21:28) but Paul was teaching the gospel, and the gospel isn’t against the law, neither is it contrary to it. It’s simply another way, and that way is the way of God in Christ Jesus because a change was made by the work of Christ on this earth in the days of his flesh, and his resurrection from the dead and ascension to heaven where he was before.
All this brought about a change.
Those men that troubled Paul in Acts 21 did so out of a religious legalistic spirit that was contrary to God.
Ray,
Messiah is talking about the law and the prophets in Matthew 5. You cannot say that He is speaking of something different. He is speaking of reward in the kingdom of heaven. He straightforwardly says that the people that keep and teach others to keep YHWH’s law will be the great ones in the kingdom. If Messiah did not keep and teach us to keep YHWH’s commandments then he is not the greatest in the kingdom.
Paul was accused of not keeping the law. It was a false charge. He proved otherwise.
Acts 21
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Y’shua was accused falsely also.
Acts 6
13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
Messiah told us that we should not even think that He was gong to change one jot or tittle of the law or that He was coming to do away with it.
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
What is thing that you call a Jewish feast? The feasts that are spoken of in the Bible are YHWH’s feasts, not Jewish feasts. The believers in Y’shua kept them in the first and second centuries until apostasy gained the power to pervert the assemblies.
Leviticus 23
4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Paul commanded, or at least expected, the Corinthians to keep the feast of unleavened bread. He goes on to tell them that he will be in Ephesus until Pentecost. Why would he speak to people that didn’t keep the feasts with YHWH’s feasts as time references? He wouldn’t. If they weren’t keeping the feasts of YHWH, his words would have very little meaning to them so he would have done better to say, “I’ll be in Ephesus till the second Sunday in May.” or something.
1 Corintians 5
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1 Corinthians 16
8 But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
Your Bible says that the Sabbath was made for man. It does not say that it was only for the Jews.
Mark 2a
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man…
And then there is this one:
Matthew 4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Notice that it doesn’t say that Jews are supposed to live by every word from YHWH’s mouth…man is. You may not have noticed, but the law and the prophets are part of every word of YHWH.
Shalom
Bo, Compare Romans 8:2-4 carefuly with Matthew 5:17.
In Acts 21 (see verse 28) Paul was accused of working to destroy the law and their customs, but he wasn’t doing that. He wasn’t out to destroy the law, but to fulfull the righteousness of it by the gospel of Christ. (Rom 2-4)
Bo, compare Galations 4:21-5:2 with what Jesus said about how nothing of the law will pass away ’till all be fulfilled. (MT 5:18)
According to Paul, the law still stood as a witness as to how Christians born of the Spirit of God are heirs of the promise to Abraham, and those that are of the law are not.
The law still says the same today about that.
Ray,
You are sidestepping.
Shalom
Bo,
Suppose a man uses the law to destroy the teaching of the law, doesn’t that make him a transgressor?
Bo, was Paul transgressing when he wrote the Galatians letter? Was he the one using the law to destroy the law in Gal 4:21 on to the end of the chapter? I don’t believe so.
However, I believe I have seen some who do use the law to teach contrary to Paul’s good news in Gal 4, and there is a day of judgment coming.
I can say that I have seen people use the law to teach contrary to the teaching of the law, and they don’t seem to consider that they have transgressed the law.
Ray,
Paul says that anyone that seeks to be justified by the law has fallen from grace. He does not say that we should not keep the law. For the law is righteous, just and good.
Galatians 5
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
The yoke of bondage is salvation by works. Salvation produces works. Works does not produce salvation.
Abraham was saved by faith without the deeds of the law, just as we and everybody else that ever was or will be saved…but Abraham also kept YHWH’s law and commandments after he was saved by faith.
Roaans 4
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
So how did Abraham walk out his faith?
Genesis 26
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Galatians 3
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Abraham’s faith produced faithfulness. Faithfulness can only be shown by obedience. Abraham obeyed YHWH’s law and commandments and statutes.
If we are children of Abraham we will do the works of Abraham…and he kept YHWH’s law…not to get saved, but because he was saved.
John 8
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
When we fail to keep or do not want to keep or teach others that they can ignore YHWH’s law, we show that His law is not written upon our hearts. Having YHWH’s law written upon our hearts means that we love it and want to keep it. The real new covenant is supposed to write YHWH’s law upon our hearts. If His commandments are grievous to us, we show that we do not love Him or His law.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
We do not even know Him if we refuse to keep His commandments.
1 John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
How did Y’shua walk? The same way Abraham did…keeping all of YHWH’s commandments and teaching men to do the same.
John 15
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
Genesis 18
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Y’shua and Abraham kept the greatest commandment…which entails knowing YHWH’s law and teaching it. Those that do this will be great in YHWH’s kingdom. Those that do not will not.
Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Shalom
I agree with bo. in addition to that i would like to point out…
(1 JOHN 2:3-6)
“3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.”
yeshua kept torah perfectly, even against the tempting devil. taken note that none of the laws quoted by jesus are in the 10 commandments…but they are in the 613. look it up. Matthew 4:1-11
The TANAKH, old testament is the foundation of the new testament. we need torah because it aims to yeshua… Romans 10:4-11 – For Messiah is the goal of the Torah to everyone who believes.
John 5:46 – For had ye believed Moses [Torah], ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
Yes Jesus kept the law perfectly, pardoning the woman caught in adultry, being her deliverer, healing, and going about doing good even on Sabbath days.
Jesus kept the law perfectly all the days of his earthly life so that I wouldn’t have to, not that I should live unrighteously or seek a life of sin, but that I would serve God in righteousness and truth, and not be under the burden the law put upon men, for Jesus lifted that burden from off the shoulders of men, carrying the burden of the law, all the way to the cross.
Some people today carry things the Lord doesn’t want them to bear. Others pretend to carry things they don’t bear, and some are delivered from the things that were bearing down upon them.
Ray,
You have not answered my questions. Why do you say the the law is a burden? The Bible does not say that.
Deuteronomy 30
11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.
It is not too hard if it is in our hearts and in our mouths. This is Hebrew idiom for us loving it and knowing it (being able to speak it).
It is only too hard for us if are not partakers of the real new covenant. For the in the new covenant it is supposed to be written on our hearts…we are supposed to love to do it.
Jeremiah 31
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
It is not grievous to those that love YHWH. If we love Him, we want to keep His commandments.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Messiah did not keep the law so that you of I wouldn’t have to. He kept it because it was in His heart 100%. He kept it because it was in His nature being that He was the word of YHWH made flesh. He was a perfect unblemished sacrifice for us. He paid our sin debt.
Just because someone pays our speeding ticket fines does not mean that we can continue to speed. It is still breaking the law. Messiah did not tell the woman caught in adultery, “One I die on the tree you will not have to worry about not committing adultery. That is just a burden of the law.”
He did not pardon her as you say. He asked for witnesses and no one would witness against her. The necessary 2 or 3 witnesses would not testify and implicate the man that she was caught with. “In the very act” includes the man, you know. He did not and could not righteously pass judgment upon her without at least 2 witnesses against her.
What He did say was:
John 8
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
That is still what He says today. “Go and sin no more.” What is sin? John and Paul can answer that question.
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 4b
15 …for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Messiah’s fulfilling the law does not do away with it, destroy it, make it obsolete or void.
Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Y’shua did not keep the law so that we wouldn’t have to. Messiah came to make us free from sin, not free to sin. Sin is the transgression of the law.
John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Romans 6
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
If you continue to break the law, you are a slave to sin. We are not supposed to yield our members as servants to sin.
Romans 6
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Being under the law means that we are trying to become righteous or saved by keeping it. (Gal.5:4) Since we are not trying to be saved by keeping it, but have accepted YHWH’s grace, should we continue to sin/transgress His law? May it never be!
The law of YHWH is good. We are supposed to love it. It is not a burden. It is not grievous. If we are under grace and empowered by the Spirit of Grace to remember it, love it and keep it. The new covenant is supposed to do this.
John 16a
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth…
John 17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Matthew 4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Is it beginning to click yet in your mind, Ray? Passage after passage in the “New Testament” that tell us to not to transgress YHWH’s law.
Hebrews 10
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
When we continue to transgress YHWH’s law, because we think that Messiah “kept the law so that we wouldn’t have to,” are we not guilty of the above passage?
“Go and sin no more, Ray” = “Go and transgress YHWH’s law no more, Ray.”
Shalom
Bo,
Peter said (see Acts 15:10) that circumcision and the law of Moses was something the Pharisees wanted to put upon Christians.
It was something they were not to bear upon them.
The Bible says so. And I agree.
Some people want to mix the child of the free with the things of the child of the bondwoman. (see Gal 4)
Why do they seek to do such a thing? Is it to cause confusion, strife, and division?
The law prophesied of this. And it’s teaching on this matter is true. Shouldn’t it be believed by those who pretend to hold to the law?
It seems clear to me that such are out to destroy the law if it were possible, and try to do so by misusing the law.
I thank God Jesus said that none of the law would fail even unto the end. Jesus never used the law to put an old piece of cloth unto a new garment. In fact he taught against it.
Why do they yield themselves to such corruption when they could repent of legalism and receive the liberty of the gospel instead? What reward do they think they get?
Ray,
Of course you do not answer the passages that I post. You ignore them to post your feelings and misrepresentations of other passages.
It is obvious from the context that the son of the bondwoman is one that tries to obtain salvation by works and the son of the free woman does the works of Abraham because he is saved by grace through faith. Those works were ordained for us to walk in. Those good works that will not get us saved are still the very works that were posted long ago in the Torah that we should walk in them…for they are the basics of real love for YHWH and our neighbor.
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world…
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
So we used to be gentiles and separated from YHWH’s covenants. Did you get that covenants not covenant. We used to be gentiles and strangers. Now we are part of Israel. We have been grafted and adopted into Israel. That is the name of YHWH’s bride.
Romans 9
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Not all those that call themselves Christians are Israel either. They have not really received the adoption into Israel. They have not accepted the covenants. They refuse to obey YHWH’s commandments. They are sons of disobedience.
Romans 11
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee…
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee…
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
It is their olive tree that we have been grafted into. We should be careful. We should not be high minded but fear. We should show our gratitude. How? By knowing and doing YHWH’s perfect law.
Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
The law is good. It is perfect. It coverts our soul (transforms us and renews our mind). There are some very striking parallels between the passage above and Psalm 19.
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Those secret faults are multiplied in us when we do not know and obey YHWH’s perfect law. We start to think that it is not sin to transgress YHWH’s perfect law. Our minds are not renewed is basically the same as our souls not being converted. We are not transformed from thinking like worldly gentiles. We do not present our bodies as obedient to YHWH’s commandments and we remain servants of sin.
In Acts 15 we find once again that we are saved by faith and not by doing the works of the law. The burden that no one can bear is salvation by works. The law itself is not a burden according the Bible. (Deut. 30:11) It is spiritual, righteous, just, good, perfect, etc.
Acts 15
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
The Pharisees wanted the new believers to be circumcised and to keep the whole law of Moses, which to them meant thousands of additional man-made laws to be saved. The answer was that no man is saved by keeping the law, but those newly saved people that were no longer gentiles were told to learn the law in the synagogue and to start by keeping 4 things that would allow them to not be kicked out of the synagogue. They were to renew their minds in YHWH’s perfect law and adjust their lives accordingly…not to get saved, but because they were saved. They were expected to have YHWH’s law written on their hearts and so would love to hear it read and want to do it.
And as far as putting a new piece of cloth into an old garment…you apply completely wrongly. Here is a little context:
Matthew 9
14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
That passage is in the context of fasting. It is relating how improper it is to fast when Messiah was there. It is improper to sew a new piece of cloth onto an old one and put new wine into old bottles because everybody knows that damage will result. And if there is mourning at a wedding, instead of rejoicing, it ruins the wedding. And if the Messiah is in our midst, fasting is inappropriate. Fasting is done in seeking YHWH. If He is right there speaking to them, why fast?
John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And what you call legalism is actually obedience. And what you call liberty is lawlessness. Only by obedience/continuing in YHWH’s word are we made free from sin. The liberty that you speak of is really bondage to sin (transgression of the law.) It is turning away from YHWH’s holy commandments.
2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
The law is perfect and it supposed to free us to not sin if it is written on our hearts…if it is engrafted into our being. James calls it the perfect law of liberty. And we deceive ourselves when we know it and do not do it, but we are blessed and rewarded for doing it. Great in the kingdom of heaven sounds good to me.
James 1
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Shalom
Legalism and hypocrisy has no place in the kingdom of heaven. There’s none of that in Jesus.
If we see it in our lives all we need to do is come to the cross and repent. We can be saved in Jesus’ name.
Ray,
What you call legalism is really scriptural obedience to YHWH. What you call freedom is really scriptural lawlessness. You still have not addressed the scriptures that I have brought up as to how your version of truth matches with them. They are really piling up against your view. You didn’t even repent for using scripture way out of context in a couple of instances. Your use of putting an old piece of cloth unto a new garment is simply outrageous.
The law of YHWH is good. It can not be good to ignore it. It cannot be good to refuse to obey it. Obeying it will not save you. Saved people obey it. Do you think that YHWH’s law is good? You seem to think it is bad and legalism to keep it.
1 John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Those that know Him and are saved by Him keep His Torah…because they love Him and every word that proceeds from His mouth.
Shalom
Bo, some people use the words of John, Jesus, Paul and others to preach legalism, though they used the same words to preach the gospel.
Legalism is bondage. It’s man using the word unlawfuly, using it in hypocrisy, going contrary to it.
There are many thieves and robbers on the Lord’s highway.
Ray,
Yes, Paul wants those people to chop not only their foreskin off but their entire penis for all the trouble they make, upsetting peoples’ faith; I wonder if they will follow those words.
Ray,
You still have not responded to what the scriptures say. You have many assertions of your man-made doctrine that makes YHWH’s commandments of none effect and your worship vain and you have expressed your feelings and have misused the scripture that you do use, but you fail to believe what is written and/or show how I have misused them.
Psalm 119
126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.
Ro 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
You are right about one thing Ray…Hypocrisy does not belong in the kingdom of Heaven.
Mark 7
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition…
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
The law of YHWH is good. Good doesn’t mean bad.
Shalom
The apostle Paul explained a bit of the fulfilling of the law, when he warned the church at Galatia about those that would come in with legalism, for the law prophesied about the son of the bondwoman, and how she troubled those who received the promise by faith. (See Gal 4 and Gen 16:5)
And rightly so Paul told of how those that are of the flesh persecute those that are born of the spirit, telling of the story of Hagar and Sarah.
This the law prophesied about, but some do not receive this teaching of the law, though they pretend to hear the law. (see Gal 4:21)
Bo, do you receive this teaching of the apostle Paul? If not, why not? Wasn’t this teaching of his by the Spirit of God which was in him?
I believe the law of the Lord is good, though some people have trouble receiving it.
Ray,
Bo won’t listen; you are wasting your words.
Ray,
I receive the teaching of Paul. I do not receive your interpretation. I accept Paul’s summary at the beginning of chapter 5 of Galatians. The major theme of Galatians is about salvation by works vs salvation by grace. It is not about law vs grace. If there is no law, there is no sin and then there is no need of grace. They work together.
Galatians 2
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Paul had Timothy circumcised. Did Paul cause his fall from grace or make him have to keep the whole law to be saved? No, because though both Paul and Timothy continued to keep the law, they were saved by grace. They did not keep the law to be saved or justified. They did not trust in their works to save them.
Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
The son of the bondwoman is the one that seeks to be justified by keeping the law. That is what the Judiazers taught. They persecuted the Messianic believers. The son of the free woman is saved by grace and keeps the law like Abraham did…because he is saved, not to get saved.
“Legalism” is not even used in the Bible. The concept of working for ones salvation or being justified by the works of the law is what the Bible is against. There is nothing in the scripture that says that the law is bad or that keeping it is bad. Trusting in ones keeping of it for justification is bad.
Shalom
Daniel,
The same could be said of you or Ray concerning the scriptures I quote. They are wasted words to you, but maybe there are some that are reading this that actually love YHWH’s law that will come to a fuller understanding of what working out their salvation is and won’t be deceived into thinking that obedience to YHWH’s perfect law is working for their salvation. Maybe they will realize that we are still to live by every word of YHWH and will see past the twisted view of Paul’s words that Churchianty has championed.
Shalom
Bo,
OK Now go chop your penis off. Those are Paul’s words to you.
Bo,
I won’t be interacting further with you on this topic; we’ve discussed it in detail in the past, and I believe I thoroughly disproved your views.
If we believe our flesh must be circumcised, Christ will profit us nothing. (Gal 5:2) I believe the same goes for other things beside circumcision of the fleshly body.
If someone tells you that you must refrain from certain meats to be saved, that too is something of legalism, just as an apparent necessary circumcision would be.
The Christian is not under any such laws as those two above, and there are more. Those two I mentioned above are laws of men, for they make that up, though they try to put that on God, as if God puts them on today’s Christian. He does not.
Today a Christian is free to decide for himself if his body should be circumcised or not and whether or not he should eat certain meats.
So I wonder why Timothy would be circumcised along with the approval of Paul. I suspect it was for the sake of reaching those who had confidence in the law. It would have been unlikey for Timothy to be received by some if he was not circumcised. That’s what I suspect anyway.
Whatever law it is, if it’s not something God puts on the Christian today, it’s a law of men, and it puts people into bondage, into a system of man, of the fallen nature of the flesh. It is carnal. It is devilish.
If we notice such a stronghold in our lives, we should take it to God in prayer, seek our freedom from the worldly things that have bound us, and repent of them. Just get free in Jesus’s name.
Then live in the freedom of being released from the restraints of men, of carnal men, those who do not have true faith in the gospel of Christ, and work to get others free also.
Correction: typo, Jesus’ name.
Daniel,
Sorry to see that you put such faith in yourself and your arguments. I just rely upon scripture to make its points. Let others judge whether you have proven me and the scripture wrong.
Shalom
Bo,
No problem, but thanks for the false accusations.
Ray,
Once again you do not discuss the scripture that I bring up, but misconstrue a passage.
You wrote:
“If we believe our flesh must be circumcised, Christ will profit us nothing. (Gal 5:2)”
That is not what the passage indicates. The context is this: (How many times must I post it?)
Galatians 5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Timothy was indebted to keep the whole law for salvation though he got circumcised. It is not those that think that they should be circumcised in obedience to YHWH’s declared will that are fallen from grace. It is those that think that they are justified by doing so. It is those that think that their keeping of the law brings salvation. That is what Galatians is about. The law is what we ought to do to show our love and respect to the giver of it. Because we failed in doing so, we need a savior. Now that we are saved, we are supposed to have a heart for YHWH’s law. His Spirit is supposed to empower us to keep it.
Romans 8
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The above passage shows that those that refuse to keep YHWH’s law are carnal and cannot please Him, while those that walk after the Spirit do keep it.
The law is not devilish. It is good.
Shalom