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The context is the millennium. And this instruction is all over the Tanakh. The idea that there is this entity called “the Church”, which is separate and apart from Israel, is replacement theology and is a false dichotomy. There is believing Israel whom the nations are grafted into, and non-believing Israel. There is no Gentile Church with a separate mission and Torah apart from believing Israel. Is there grace and time given for the uncultivated to become cultivated over time? Of course.
David, does this comment relate to today’s show? Just wanting to be sure we don’t rehash another subject we’ve discussed a lot on other threads. And of course, as you know, I categorically differ with you that Gentile believers (in particular) are commanded by the Lord to obey the Torah — but this is not the place, again, to rehash our differences. Blessings to you!
It has to do with your discussion with the lady about circumcision. Are only the Jewish people allowed the wisdom of God contained in the commandments? Should we stop Gentiles circumcising their children, so they can miss out on the wisdom of God and get diseases and die? And even if Gentile adults shouldn’t circumcise themselves, where on earth did you get the idea that they shouldn’t raise their children to be cultivated branches, instead of uncultivated? Btw, do you know how many people die because of eating shellfish every year? I personally know a man who loves fishing in the local Assemblies of God Church, and he caught a puffer fish. He almost ate it!!! Thank God someone else was there to stop him, or he would have and might have died. He’d never been taught to look for scales to determine if it was tahor to tamei.
I don’t believe God ever told me not to eat pork.
I think it’s OK to attribute to him something that was often impressed upon me…. to be sure I cook it thoroughly.
I’m still amazed to hear about how people’s names have certain significant meanings in the Bible, and how it seems I should be alerted to the fact that God teaches us by the meanings of names and so it seems by the meanings of other words also.
All clear on why you introduced the subject. Again, I believe the testimony of the NT is categorically against your position and that to push mandatory Torah observance on Gentile believers in particular is a serious error with potentially dangerous consequences.
YHWH did tell Israel not to eat pork. Have you been grafted into Israel? Are saying that you are separated from YHWH’s people?
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
It is “THEIR OWN olive tree” that we have been grafted into.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Not only are the eunuchs that have joined themselves to YHWH not dry trees/stalks (one that is cut off from the olive tree), us sons of the stranger that have joined ourselves to YHWH are not to consider ourselves not a part of Israel (YHWH’s people)
We are no longer gentiles.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Now we are no longer strangers to the covenants (plural) between YHWH and Israel and are partakers of Israels commonwealth.
So has YHWH only spoken “don’t eat pig” to the Jews, or have we just assumed this to be the case?
Here we go again . . . I’ll say this once more, than I’ll be dropping out of this discussion (which has repeated almost endlessly in different threads here): The whole of the NT is against the idea that Gentiles are required to obey all of the Torah, and it is wrong and potentially dangerous to push this erroneous position.
Just before Paul went unto the Jews with the gospel, he warned the church of this. (Acts 20:30)
I believe I do receive some Jewish insight from the apostle Paul. He certainly understood the law and the purpose of it.
Here’s something the greatest Jewish man to have ever lived, said which goes along with what Paul said in Acts 20:30. (John 10:8)
So when men draw disciples after themselves, (Jesus being the exception of course) they become wolves don’t they?
Paul said in Acts 20:29 that the wolves will not spare the flock. I suppose that means they just keep on keeping on in whatever it is they are doing.
With all due respect, I say the erroneous position is when the words of the Lord Yeshua and the rest of the Tanakh are pitted against Paul’s writings as understood through a certain lens, which I’d call Roman Catholic.
It’s all about reconciliation, do we reconcile the difficult, misunderstood sayings of Paul to specific congregations with the plain and simple message of the rest of the Bible, or do we reconcile the rest of the Bible to Paul as understood by the Roman Catholics?
David, I really don’t have time to get into this discussion again, nor do I have the inclination, having issued strong warnings about this error before. I will only say this (and then will concentrate on ministry here in India): Your last post exposes the error of your position all the more deeply, having to resort to a ridiculous dichotomy to support your point. But I’ve said enough about this in the past and I’ll not repeat myself again other than to say, with all respect, that you are heading in the wrong direction and I wish you God’s grace.
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