It’s The Annual Christmas Debate!

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Today is a special, caller-driven day on the Line of Fire! We are asking all people who are passionate on one side or the other about whether or not to celebrate Christmas to call in and share their views! So instead of just sending us emails and links, call and share them with everyone! This is sure to be a lively show!
Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Number One: Whatever you do, do it for the glory of God. Number Two: Be fully convinced in your own heart and mind about what you do. Number Three: Don’t get caught up with the spirit of the world, whatever you do. Number Four: If you choose NOT to celebrate Christmas during this time of the year, glorify Jesus in an appropriate way, so that you add, rather than take away.

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Whatever you do or don’t do with Christmas, let us stand back in awe and recognize that God sent His Son into the world to save us from our filth, sin, and destruction, to take our place, so that we might join with Him forever! Joy to the World!

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Other Resources:

Dr. Brown Answers Your Questions; and Shares Thoughts on India and Christmas

Should Followers of Jesus Celebrate Christmas? The Annual Line of Fire Debate

351 Comments
  1. The way Im reading some of the post here, it sounds like:

    Any non-Biblical holiday = pagan (especially Christmas)

    If you confirm this is your view, you will have to explain to me how the Bible defines what is pagan.

  2. Ben KC,

    There are civil holidays such as labor day, independence day, and memorial day. These are not necessarily pagan, although there could be issues with such days depending on the way they are celebrated.

    There are religious holidays have come down to us through Catholicism or directly from the worship of false deities. There are religious holy days that are specified in the Bible. YHWH specifies His holy days and asks us to not add to or take away from what He has revealed in scripture.

    There is no evidence of the apostles or the early church celebrating anything but YHWH’s specified holy days. Christ Mass is a Catholic holiday that was added by manmade religion and is celebrated on the day of prior pagan religious observances and continues to incorporate the pagan symbols and practices of those celebrations.

    Definition of pagan: 1: heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)-from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pagan

    Shalom

  3. Bo,

    Since your response seems more civil, Ill give it another try with you.

    Just because there was no evidence or not spoken in Scripture doesnt mean it didnt happen or did happen. Also, even if it didnt happen, it doesnt mean it was wrong unless something was done that was directly against Scripture.

    Some of the main objectives we are to considered pagan would be, worshiping another god(s) (human/animal/food sacrifices, bowing down to a statue, etc), following another ideology that does not submit to Christ, submitting to sin (murder, fornication, homosexuality), etc. These acts line up to what Scripture speaks against which are considered pagan acts.

    How does Christmas fit into pagan celebration is really up to the individual. If someone wants to mix the holiday celebration by worshiping another god, committing sin, etc, then this would be pagan. If a someone celebrates a holiday and doesnt go against the commands in Scripture, it is fine.

    Ill stop from here. Ill read your response and reply back when I have time.

  4. Ben,

    You said:
    Rachael, explain why celebrating a non-Biblical holiday is considered a sin such as Christmas or Thanksgiving.

    I would have to ask you does Y’shua consider paganism a sin? IN those earlier verses I sent you HE never has anything good to say about paganism. We have been over that tons.

    Thanksgiving has no pagan roots. This year I did read some questionable things about it. But I have also read that when the Pilgrims came they searched the scriptures to find out what to name the harvest feast. This was named by the pilgrims after the “Feast of Shavuot” in the bible.

    You said:
    Also, if someone celebrates Christmas, does this mean they are not Christian?

    What does being a christian (messiah Like) really mean? Are they Born again and changed seeking truth, to grow on, from the scriptures alone?

    I know plenty of people who celebrate xmas and they are AMAZING people. However, some would rather shoot you than hear anything about a Jewish messiah. Hear or talk about anything about the Messiah period even though they say they are celebrating his birth. They go into debt and there is so much chaos. I am so glad that I can rest and know that HIS yoke is easy and his burden is light.

    I found out that when I got saved that I didn’t even know what xmas was about. I ask my parents and they were shocked. I said you had a manger up on the mantle and the lights glowing with presents all around the tree. It is fashioned so that a child cannot hear because the presents already has his heart. Like a child predator with candy stealing them away to lah-lah land of make believe. A real sedative that usually lasts a life time.

    For a child, (that is where we all start the indoctrination into paganism) the focus is not on the Messiah it is on the gifts, VAIN THINGS, and lights. Unbeknown to our innocence and ignorance we are being told lies that will most likely cheat us from ever really knowing the Messiah fully and completely.

    Its ALL fun and fantasies for children. However, a great deception. Parents lie to their children about Santa..later the easter bunny, tooth fairy?? WHY? Why do we repeat this lie to each generation. The children don’t have a chance to get out of the maze unless GOD shows up. For me that is what happened. I saw outside of my inherited pagan box. I know HIM in all of HIS jewishness and that is WHO HE is period. That is the greater thing by far.

  5. Ben KC,

    Would it have been sin for the Israelites to have used the religious symbols, methods and celebrations of the peoples around them to proclaim a feast to YHWH and to worship Him in those ways on those days? If not, why is it different with us?

    Deuteronomy 12
    30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
    31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
    32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    Exodus 32
    1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
    2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
    3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
    4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
    5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
    6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
    7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

    Was it up to the individual to in the verses above? What part of the celebration would have been left if they had removed all uncommanded things from it? How can we, in light of the above passages, celebrate a “holy day” on a noncommanded day in a noncommanded way and it not be against what is commanded? If we proclaim a holiday to YHWH–or go along with those that have–that He has not sanctioned and use symbols that He has not specified, how are we doing anything different than they? Were there any well meaning individuals in the camp that joined in the celebrating that were not sinning by doing so?

    In your above post, it seems that you do not recognize that to not celebrate YHWH’s commanded holy days is going against scripture by diminishing from what He commanded. And it doesn’t seem that you see that adding a “holy day” to YHWH’s list is also adding to what He commanded and thus going against scripture.

    Shalom

  6. When the millennial reign commences, Dec 25th will no longer be a day to celebrate Mistletoe, Yule log, and chopping down a perfectly healthy innocent tree to watch it die in your living room. God doesn’t like unnecessary killing of trees:

    “You shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them.” Deut 20:19

  7. Ben KC,

    You did not answer my questions. Can we do anything that the scripture does not specifically say that we cannot do? Does it say anywhere in scripture that we cannot eat people? Please answer my questions.

    Shalom

  8. Ben KC,

    It does say in scripture not to add to what YHWH has commanded? Xmas would be an addition. He never said to celebrate Messiah’s birth…His death at Passover, yes…His birth, no. I still want you to answer my questions that I posted above.

    Shalom

  9. rachael,

    The Christmas holiday we celebrate is not rooted or connected in whatever you believe its rooted in. No one worships a tree or other gods in this culture. If it was still rooted in worshiping other gods, then it will be evident evident. If this was the case, I would agree with you. But there is no form of worshiping other gods in this holiday.

  10. Ben KC,

    I’m totally with you on this, and to be candid, some of the arguments being raised against believers celebrating the birth of Jesus are ludicrous. I’ve not seen one syllable from anyone there that indicates that there’s anything in the least bit pagan about believers reading the opening chapters of some of the Gospels, singing hymns glorifying the Savior’s coming into the world, and proclaiming His lordship at one particular time of the year.

  11. Bo, did you ever think that maybe you might be adding to God’s commandment by saying not to celebrate Christmas?

  12. Ben KC,

    How is it not adding to YHWH’s commandments to celebrate something that He did not mention? And please answer my questions.

    Shalom

  13. Bo, no one is adding to God’s commandment. Period. No one is saying this is mandatory because God said so. If the church were to say that, then thats one way to add to His command. But this is not the case. NO one is saying this is a commandment from the Lord that we have to celebrate His birth.

  14. Dr. Brown,

    Why is it not pagan to use a pagan calendar to supposedly celebrate the birth of Messiah who came to earth on YHWH’s schedule that is revealed by His calendar? Is it scriptural to celebrate birthdays?

    Shalom

  15. Ben KC,

    Deuteronomy 12
    30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
    31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
    32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    Do you see from the above passage that when we use aspects of celebrations that were originally designed to worship false deities, that we are adding to what YHWH commanded us? To “do likewise” in supposed worship of YHWH is sin. Do you see that when we do not celebrate YHWH’s specified holy days, that we are diminishing from what He commanded?

    Are you going to answer my questions?

    Shalom

  16. Ben KC,

    I post again:

    Would it have been sin for the Israelites to have used the religious symbols, methods and celebrations of the peoples around them to proclaim a feast to YHWH and to worship Him in those ways on those days? If not, why is it different with us?

    Deuteronomy 12
    30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
    31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
    32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    Exodus 32
    1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
    2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
    3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
    4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
    5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
    6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
    7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

    Was it up to the individual to in the verses above? What part of the celebration would have been left if they had removed all uncommanded things from it? How can we, in light of the above passages, celebrate a “holy day” on a noncommanded day in a noncommanded way and it not be against what is commanded? If we proclaim a holiday to YHWH–or go along with those that have–that He has not sanctioned and use symbols that He has not specified, how are we doing anything different than they? Were there any well meaning individuals in the camp that joined in the celebrating that were not sinning by doing so?

    In your above post, it seems that you do not recognize that to not celebrate YHWH’s commanded holy days is going against scripture by diminishing from what He commanded. And it doesn’t seem that you see that adding a “holy day” to YHWH’s list is also adding to what He commanded and thus going against scripture.

    Shalom

  17. Ben KC,

    Do you keep YHWH’s Holy days as specified in scripture?

    A simple yes or no will do. It is relevant and not a bunny trail.

    Shalom

  18. Bo, part of the context of Deut 12 was that people were worshiping another god. Christmas has nothing to do with worship another god

    Ex 32, the context was worshiping an idol. Christmas has nothing to do with worshiping an idol.

    We dont worship a Christmas tree, lights, decorations. Period.

  19. Bo,

    I categorically reject your reading of Scripture. There are fundamental standards that God lays out in His Word, and we who love Him will live by those standards, and then there is wonderful life in the Spirit, with freedom to honor and serve Him in a thousand different ways.

    As for birthdays, there is nothing in the Word against celebrating a birthday.

    BTW, I’m assuming that you gather together with other believers on a regular basis (it’s a clear NT injunction), that you have leaders you are submitted to in an accountable way (an even clearer NT injunction), and that one of your typical gatherings looks like what Paul described in 1 Cor 14:26, correct?

    In any case, I really have no intention of getting into extended debate about this issue, but when spotted some of the recent posts interacting with Ben KC, I felt it necessary to respond.

    That being said, please do answer the questions I asked here when you can. Thanks!

  20. Okay, diving back in, however briefly:

    BenKC
    Right on, brother! I agree 100% with everything you’ve said (as should be evident from my posts here and last year where I argued in the same way). Also, I salute your succinctness!

    Bo
    Leave off the leading questioning, “Do you keep YHWH’s Holy days as specified in scripture?” The fact is that you yourself do not, nor can you without a functioning temple and Levitical priesthood.

    BenKC is absolutely right, you are the one adding commands by saying “it is unlawful to celebrate the Incarnation on Dec. 25th”.

    David
    Now that is a textbook case of ripping a verse out of context. Just sayin’, man.

    Rachael
    To be quite candid, I seem to detect what I would consider an unhealthy fascination with Jewish and Hebrew things coming from you. I strongly encourage you to spend some time on this site: http://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/ and consider what you are being taught by the Hebrew roots movement. It will lead you away from Christ, of that I can assure you. Of course, unless I miss my guess, you are still in the grip of the convert phase, and you won’t actually even seriously consider the things said on the site until that has abated. I hope I am wrong.

  21. Ben KC,

    You have not answered my questions, probably because you cannot without damaging your credibility. The truth is that your credibility is damaged by not answering.

    So you say that you have not added any commandments, but you submit to the commandments of the Roman Catholic church by keeping Christ Mass, which is rife with pagan practices that are forbidden in the passage I quoted above. Therefore you are diminishing from what is written in that you are disobeying the injunction to not worship YHWH in the ways that pagans worship their deities, even if you only keep the pagan calendar date. You probably do not keep YHWH’s feasts, which is another diminishing of what YHWH has commanded. You very conveniently skirt my questions. So be it. It was expected.

    Shalom

  22. Dr. Brown,

    You can categorically reject my reading of scripture if you like. You still have not demonstrated that my reading of them is in error. Is it Hebrew to celebrate birthdays? Is it scriptural to do so? Where did the custom come from? Did it come from pagan worship of their deities or kings that were considered to be divine and were worshiped? Do you think that the calendar we use has anything to do with YHWH’s dealings with mankind? Is it pagan? Do you know? Do you care?

    Yes our meetings are like Paul describes in 1 Cor. 14:26 and on the days that YHWH says to keep instead of adhering to doctrines and commandments of men that turn from the truth.

    Shalom

  23. Tom,

    What does a functioning levitical priesthood have to do with my celebration of YHWH’s appointed times? Are you sure you understand enough about the commandments concerning the set apart times of YHWH to make that judgement?

    Shalom

  24. Dr. Brown,

    You wrote:

    “There are fundamental standards that God lays out in His Word, and we who love Him will live by those standards, and then there is wonderful life in the Spirit, with freedom to honor and serve Him in a thousand different ways.”

    Would you be thinking of these scriptures as some of the fundamental standards:

    Matthew 5
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    1 John 5
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    Do you think some of the thousand different ways to honor and serve YHWH include warmed over pagan practices or breaking His commandments?

    Shalom

  25. Dr. Brown,

    Let’s try that again!

    You wrote:

    “There are fundamental standards that God lays out in His Word, and we who love Him will live by those standards, and then there is wonderful life in the Spirit, with freedom to honor and serve Him in a thousand different ways.”

    Would you be thinking of these scriptures as some of the fundamental standards:

    Matthew 5
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    1 John 5
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    Do you think some of the thousand different ways to honor and serve YHWH include warmed over pagan practices or breaking His commandments?

    Shalom

  26. Tom,

    And no, Tom, I am not adding to YHWH’s commandments in declaring that we are breaking YHWH’s commandments when we adopt pagan practices to supposedly worship Him. He is the one that said not to worship Him like the heathen do their deities…not me. I am simply stating what He said and applying it to our situation today. Did you notice how Ben KC refused to address the questions I raised concerning this?

    Shalom

  27. Bo

    Several things:

    1) After literally dozens of times where you have dodged or simply refused to address clear questions to you posed by myself and others, trying to claim the high ground against BenKC is ludicrous. No other word for it.

    2) When you say:

    but you submit to the commandments of the Roman Catholic church by keeping Christ Mass

    you provide a clear example of what I was talking about in my call-in: “misrepresentation or misunderstanding”.

    3) I understand that animal sacrifice, by the priesthood, located at the tabernacle/temple was the main point of several of the feasts, “Yom Kippur” to name but one.

    4) When you say:

    He is the one that said not to worship Him like the heathen do their deities…

    a) The pagans had temples… so obviously God meant temples are against the Law…

    b) The pagans prayed to their deities… so obviously God meant prayer is banned…

    c) The pagans offered sacrifices to their gods… so obviously God meant no such thing should be done…

    …right?

    You are applying that verse licentiously and without proper regard for its context. If you were truly consistent, you’d have to quit singing. After all, that’s something heathen do to worship their deities…

  28. Bo,

    I interacted with you sufficiently many months ago to call some of your teachings and doctrines dangerous, and you showed no inclination to hear me or many others since then, so I will absolutely not engage you again in detail here other than to point out your error. I’m also quite happy to allow my knowledge of biblical truth, along with Jewish customs and traditions against yours, based on which I see zero reason not to celebrate a birthday. Again, you are allowed to continue to post here, although for your soul’s sake, you need to posture yourself more as a student than as a teacher, since there are others here with biblical truth that you need to hear. And you utterly disqualify yourself from being taken seriously when you consistently misrepresent what others post here, along with accusing everything that doesn’t fit your paradigm (falsely alleged to be biblical) to be “pagan.” You had best tread much more carefully, Bo, and I say this with genuine love for you. I follow the Lord and His Word and His Spirit, not pagan rituals and not the commandments of men. Your accusations are quickly making your posts utterly irrelevant, which would be a shame.

    Finally, are you part of a fellowship of believers and in accountable submission to other leaders? I didn’t see an answer to those questions, which are based on clear NT commands.

  29. “So you say that you have not added any commandments, but you submit to the commandments of the Roman Catholic church by keeping Christ Mass” – Bo

    **face-palm**

    Bo, seriously? sigh….

  30. Tom,

    You wrote:

    “a) The pagans had temples… so obviously God meant temples are against the Law…

    b) The pagans prayed to their deities… so obviously God meant prayer is banned…

    c) The pagans offered sacrifices to their gods… so obviously God meant no such thing should be done…

    …right?

    You are applying that verse licentiously and without proper regard for its context. If you were truly consistent, you’d have to quit singing. After all, that’s something heathen do to worship their deities…”

    We had this discussion last year. You still are not listening or representing me or the scripture correctly. Please consider the following from last year.

    You wrote:

    “1) Altars are a common element to the pagan temples and the Tabernacle
    a) Pagans sacrificed to Zeus (for example) on their altars
    b) Hebrews sacrificed to YHWH
    Conclusion: the altar is neither good nor bad – it is the use it is put to that is the issue”

    That there are altars in paganism and in YHWH worship does not mean that the altars of paganism can be used for YHWH. In truth, they can’t. They were to be torn down. Though alters are a common element, pagan altars are abominations. Maybe in a generic sense the word altar is neither good or bad, but in actuality there are good and bad alters…and the bad ones are not to be redeemed. Even the good one, if it is desecrated, has to be cleansed before commencing offerings to YHWH. The pagan one cannot be cleansed.

    There is no such thing as phallic symbols being used in worship to YHWH. The corrupt Roman church brought this element of paganism into church architecture. As I am sure you know, St. Peter’s has a huge one at its center. It was moved there from Egypt. It was previously pagan…and remains so.

    We are instructed not to do the things that pagans did in worship to YHWH. We are told to destroy the phallic symbols and altars that the pagans erected. The steeple is a phallic symbol that has its origin in paganism. Unregenerate “Christians” adopted the pagan symbol.

    It is ironic that today’s church sees no problem with it, and that it is a perfect symbol of the rampant fornication among Churchianity’s congregants. Homosexual clergy anyone? Remarriage which equals adultery anyone? Youth group and singles group hook ups anyone? Pastors running off with the secretary, priests molesting young boys…

    Put a demonic symbol on you church as a signpost to what is going on inside if you want. Put one up so that the demons know where they are welcome. But do not put one up in so called worship to YHWH. It is still an abomination.

    Put an erect tree in your home and decorate it. The act of decorating it is honoring it. It is exalting it to a place of glory that is beyond its Creator’s design. Put little replicas of Baal (sun spheres) on it. Place gifts before it. Be sure to get on your knees when you do so. Sing songs to it. Say it is not a relic of paganism. Say it is in worship to YHWH. Aaron said the golden calf was in worship to YHWH.

    To be continued.

  31. Continued below.

    You wrote:

    “2) Sex is common to both demon-worship and marriage
    a) Pagans practiced orgies and temple prostitution
    b) God established the sexual union for procreation and union between a man and a woman
    Conclusion: God’s gift of sex is a good thing, but it can be put to bad uses.”

    YHWH made sex and its use has been corrupted. YHWH made trees and their use has been corrupted. YHWH did not make pagan worship practices. He made a tree to stand in the forest until it was needed by man to build or heat with. He did not invent bringing it into our houses to decorate/worship. He didn’t give instructions on using it in worship to Him. Man has created a tradition that goes against the nature of a tree. This tradition gives more glory to the tree than YHWH designed it to have. What ever you do, do not say “wow” or be amazed at a decorated tree…it is worship…but not according to YHWH’s instructions. It is strange fire. (Lev. 10:1-3)

    If you want to be wowed by a tree go look at one that YHWH has allowed to be in full bloom or that is enormous. Give praise to Him that made the beautiful tree…not to the tree…not to a human decorator. Do not praise the works of a man’s hands.

    You wrote:
    “Acts 17:23 records Paul using the pagan altar “to an unknown god” to preach the Gospel of Christ. To take pagan symbols and use them to demonstrate and teach the good news is a beautiful thing – thank you Paul for showing us how.”

    Your point is ridiculously grasping at straws. Paul did not use the altar to sacrifice to YHWH…did he? He didn’t incorporate a pagan symbol into worship. We haven’t gotten Paul’s point yet…We haven’t abandoned paganism…We haven’t repented of our ignorance and rebellion. We want to continue to worship ignorantly, instead of following YHWH’S directions about what days He considers Holy.

    Acts 17
    22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
    23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you…
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    So we continue in Tree and egg superstition. I guess Tamuz and Estarte will not be offended this way. The Greeks didn’t want to accidentally offend a god that they had left out. We do not care if we offend the One that saved us…we bring other gods before the true one by pagan symbols, practices and holidays.

    Repenting and keeping YHWH’s holy days would be advisable. YHWH winks at the times of our ignorance. We know better now. He does not wink at rebellion.

    Shalom

  32. Dr. Brown,

    I didn’t accuse you. I quoted scripture and asked you a question. Do you think that Matthew 5:19 and 1 John 5:2-3 are some of the fundamental standards in scripture? Should we apply our lives to these principles?

    Shalom

  33. Bo,

    Funny that you like to emphasize that I avoid answering your question when you have done the same to answer Dr Browns question twice. Sounds hypocritical doesnt it?

    “are you part of a fellowship of believers and in accountable submission to other leaders? I didn’t see an answer to those questions, which are based on clear NT commands.” – Dr. Brown

  34. Dr. Brown,

    “Ancient Rome

    The Romans enthusiastically celebrated birthdays with hedonistic parties and generous presents.[13] In revulsion that the early Christians rejected the practice as inherently pagan.

    Christianity: Early centuries

    The early Christians did not celebrate Christ’s birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom. For example Origen in his commentary “On Levites” writes that Christians should not only not celebrate their birthdays, but should look on them with disgust.

    Orthodox Christianity still prefers the celebration of name days only.

    Christianity: Medieval

    Ordinary folk celebrated their saint’s day (the saint they were named after), but nobility celebrated birthdays.”-From Wikipedia-Birthday

    ‘Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make
    festivals at the births of our children’
    -(Flavius Josephus, Against Apion,
    Book II, section 26).

    the Jews and early christians – “regarded birthday celebrations as part
    of idolatrous worship…”
    -M’Clintock & Strong’s Cyclopedia
    (Vol. I, p. 817)

    “We Christians neither cover our doorposts with wreaths, nor…decorate our house like some new brothel. We…do not celebrate along with you the holidays…The pagan Romans clad their doorposts with green and branching laurels…In the Saturnalia…Presents come and go…There are…gifts…and Banquets…yet Christians should have no acquaintance with the festivals of the pagans.”
    – Tertullian, (A.D. 155-220),
    quoted by David Bercot,
    A Dictionary of Early
    Christian Beliefs, 1998, p. 342).

    “Christians of the first century did not celebrate
    the festival honoring the birth of Jesus – for the same reason they honored no other birthday anniversary. It was the feeling at that time by all Christians that the celebration of all birthdays (even the Lord’s)was a custom of the pagans.”
    – Dr. John C. McCollister’s
    The Christian Book of Why

    Shalom

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