Dr. Brown Interviews Bryan Purtle; and Serious Deviations From the Message of the Gospel

[Download MP3]

Dr. Brown talks with Bryan Purtle about serious gospel deviations today, including concerns with some of the teaching of the “New Mystics,” the abuse of the grace message, and defective views of the presence of God.

Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The gospel of Jesus brings the wonderful news that our sins have been paid for, and we can live a brand new life. It is a message that brings us out from the service of Satan and into the service of God: free from sin, free to be holy. Let’s not diminish the power of the gospel!

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Friends, let’s set the standard higher; in fact, let’s set the standard impossibly high, as Jesus does, as Paul does, so the only way we can live this out is by the grace and power of God. Leaning on Him, we will find salvation, freedom, and deliverance into purity and holiness!

Featured Resource:

Go and Sin No More [mp3 series]

Meet Bryan Purtle:

Bryan lives in the inner-city of Kansas City with his wife Audrey and their five children. Together, they carry a jealousy for prayer, world missions, the mystery and salvation of Israel, historical revival, true fellowship in the Church, and the recovery of apostolic proclamation and living through the revelation of Jesus Christ. “…. that in all things He might have the pre-eminence.” In 2002 they founded a community of believers that came to be known as the Tent of David Fellowship. They served as senior leaders of the fellowship for 7 years. In 2011 they founded the Antioch Prayer Society. www.antiochprayersociety.org

Read Bryan’s Articles on VOICE OF REVOLUTION!

Other Resources:

What Is the Message of the Gospel? and The Importance of the Great Commission

Dr. Brown Interviews Mark Mittelberg on Evangelism and Apologetics; and Repent: The First Word of the Gospel

_ The End of The American Gospel Enterprise by Dr. Brown: This book is for: Everyone hungry for more of God… Everyone jealous for the true glory of God… Everyone who knows that something great is missing from the American Church.


The Gospel of Martyrdom vs. the Gospel of Success VOR Article by Dr. Brown

Stephen stood before the Sanhedrin. The appointed Jewish leadership confronted this anointed Jewish believer. They glared; he glowed. They were enraged; he was enraptured. Their faces were contorted with anger; his was like the countenance of an angel. “Men and brothers,” he said […]

As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God VOR Article by Marcus French

An atheist reluctantly admits that Jesus is the answer in Africa in this December 27th Times Online article:
Before Christmas I returned, after 45 years, to the country that as a boy I knew as Nyasaland. Today it’s Malawi, and The Times Christmas Appeal includes a small British charity working there […]

Press Release on New Book Confronting Charismatic Church posted on VOR by Marcus French

Financial scandal. Faulty theology. Moral failure. The last few years have shown that the Church and her leaders are not immune to scandal and corruption. The real problem, however, is that no one is holding them accountable. Until now.

Charismatic insider and contributing editor to Charisma magazine, J. Lee Grady has been a voice crying out against the abuse of the gifts of the Spirit in his weekly, award-winning column “Fire in My Bones.” Though an avid proponent of the charismatic experience, he has observed trends that both distress and anger him. And now he is overturning the money tables. […]

  1. If you want to hear Christianity New Age-ized, you just have to listen to Jim Finley, a Santa Cruz California Christian counselor and retreat leader who studied with Thomas Merton. My brother is heavily into this Buddhicized Christianity. All the catch words are there: Christ Consciousness, enlightenment, Jesus “realized himself to be the manifestation of the infinite mystery of God”. Notice that there is no talk of Jesus being God in flesh. No talk of sin — but lots of talk of our brokenness. This is one of those NPR styled websites — the host sounds like she just woke up and is talking ever so quietly, fearful of disturbing us will normal speech; for a sample listen to the talk below resides on has the type of interviewer that(http://www.soundstrue.com/podcast/james-finley-brokeness-and-non-judgmental-compassion/?#bottom). It’s all about the individual loving and working to free himself. We are part of the Unitive mystery; we get to recalibrate consciousness, to experience intimately realized oneness. It’s about self effort, getting closer to God by removing thoughts of separation. God is this world is not a separate being but sort of a pantheized God. You hear of the Trinity but it too is watered down into a Monistic mush.

  2. I am near KC (Liberty); hopefully, I [and some friends of mine] will find a home at “Antioch Prayer Society” in KC. I am just looking to get solid biblical foundations in both the Word and Prayer. I don’t appreciate or trust fluff; you guys aren’t about that. Thanks a lot.

  3. A blessing; so happy to hear some Dr. Michael Brown’s people are in the area! God-willing, we’ll see each other December 6th at Antioch Prayer Society?

    BenKC, remember when I asked if I knew you — because you were in KC, and I did know a “Ben”, here; who was a man of God, as well. 😀

  4. @Daniel. There are a lot of grads here in the KC area. Some are at the fellowship that Bryan is leading and some are at IHOP

  5. Wow, didn’t know that; I have a friend who went to iHop and holds to a plethora of “off” doctrines and has, at times, attempted to make me adhere to them — or at least try to make me feel that I am overzealous for the Truth when I was forced to excise them from the atmosphere by a simple testing of Scripture. It seems juvenile.
    However, I have been t IHOP and seen serious folks; too.
    On a related topic, you do realize that Mike Bickle had a dream that satan was coming to earth, he was preaching in a fair ground, and was NOT ready to fight satan, right?

  6. @Daniel, I would like to try to respond to your comments about IHOP but it would take away the focus of todays message. I dont want this to be a IHOP focused discussion. If you want, you can email me at BLKC78 at gmail

  7. Hearing neo-Gnostic teaching from the pulpit stopped me going to a local Church.

    “My son, fear ה׳…
    And do not associate with those given to change.” Proverbs 24:21

    Change is exactly what neo-Gnostics and those who have the same spirit as Marcion delight in.

    It’s always been something the congregation of the Lord has had to contend with.

    Jeroboam brought change by creating his own man-made feasts to stop the northern Israelites going down to Jerusalem three times a year.

    And Deuteronomy 13 warns us about false prophets and dreamers of dreams who want to ex-change the true service of the God of Israel for service of false gods.

  8. Hung up with Jesus?

    “Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Mashiaḥ.” Is Mashiaḥ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” 1 Corinthians 1:12-13

    The sad reality is most Christians look through a window, a grid, of a coloured western understanding of Paul’s letters, and they use that perspective, that worldview to define how they understand Yeshua and the rest of scripture, instead of letting the rest of scripture and the words of Yeshua define how they look at Paul’s letters.

    Paul’s letters need to be reconciled with the scriptures, not the scriptures with Paul’s letters, because

    “…Paul and Silas…(came) to Berea. (There) they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the (Synagogue) Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.” Acts 17:10-11

  9. God always in a good mood?

    There’s a song, “I am a friend of God”.
    I really hate that song, because not everyone in the Church should be singing it.

    You have wife beaters, adulterers, thieves, or just unrepentant ‘Christians’ all singing, “I am a friend of God he calls me friend”.

    That makes me sick.

    What happened to worship songs that glorify God? Why do we have to glorify ourselves? Make ourselves feel better about ourselves? Why don’t we get on our hands and knees, repent and glorify our maker. Then we wouldn’t need to sing self glorifying songs anymore, what I call ‘the I Songs’, because the Spirit would bear witness to our relationship and all we’d want to do is glorify God.

  10. These God is always in a good mood people. I wonder if they would preach this verse from the pulpit?

    ‎”I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy (worships material wealth), an idolater or a slanderer (gossiper), a drunkard (man, I was wasted last night) or a swindler (who rips people off). With such a man do not even (sit down to) eat (with them).” 1 Corinthians 5:11

  11. I’m supposed to be cutting down on my posts, but I’ve really gone over it. This topic gets under my skins more than almost anything else. I need to go spend some time praying for the state of the Church, that will do more good that my shouts of despair.

  12. I love that song “I am a friend of God” Totally love it.

    But I hear you David. A lot of church people are being deceived. A lot of teachers or preachers of the Word of God are being deceived. Teaching doctrines of demons is what is going on. Scary, huh? That is why it is so, so important that we know the word of God and know Him.

    Question….Is God always in a good mood. I tell you one thing the Lord has huge, huge patience.

    So much the Lord sees that goes on in this world. Things we don’t see, all the abuse, the torture, the corruption, the homosexual movements, transgender movement, murders, etc etc,. The list can go on & on.

    I believe the Lord has all the emotions as us humans have. (Except for the emotion of guilt.)

    I pray for Help Lord. Help and convict those who anger and hurt you.

  13. David-
    I am not trying to take away anything you are saying. I do agree there are folks living the ay you described.

    However, I hang onto these words…

    John 15:12-15
    12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me.

  14. David,

    There are millions of friends of God enjoying His goodness in the Church in America, and it seems again that you’re over-generalizing and reacting to problems you do see. Spend some time worshiping Him and loving and enjoying Him and your soul will be refreshed.

  15. S. Johnson,

    Yes, Machen’s book was a classic, indeed.

    Of course, the folks I was differing with would NOT say that Paul invented Christianity, just that he articulated it and in that, his words were truly “new covenant” words as opposed to those of Jesus — which certainly goes in a potentially dangerous direction.

  16. Marcion thought that Paul was Jesus’ chief apostle, the correct interpreter and transmitter of Jesus’ teachings.
    Marcion was also the first to propose a New Testament canon. His canon consisted of only eleven books grouped into two sections:
    a), the Evangelikon, being a version of the Gospel of Luke, and
    b), the Apostolikon, a selection of ten letters of Paul the Apostle.
    Both sections were purged of elements relating to Jesus’ childhood, Judaism, and material challenging Marcion’s dualism. Other authors’ epistles (James, Peter, John, etc) were rejected since they seemed to suggest that Jesus had simply come to found a movement within broader Judaism.

    That’s all from Wikipedia, only I edited it to be brief. But it seems the beliefs of people talked about in the show share an awful lot in common with Marcion.

  17. David, there are similarities, to be sure, although I’ve read some of their stuff and they quote often from the OT too. But yes, there are some disturbing tendencies that you would be quick to notice in terms of making the Torah (and OT in general) into something very negative in contrast with Paul.

  18. Although I can empathize with the need for an ongoing of confession of sin for believers to the Father in Jesus’ name (I John), and believe in my heart that holiness is something God requests, neither of these were clearly defined in the program.

    My greatest concern from hearing this program was the posturing of the program itself, with a “we vs. whomever” stance taken throughout it. Never in the program was the Gospel defined as Byran and M.B. understood it to be, instead a foil was responded to, another doctrinal teacher (who I personally am unfamilar with) who was placed in a polarized position for examination from a superior position of those leading this program.

    I looked forward to hearing Bryan, after reading his expressions on the VOR, and was most disappointed that no definition whatsoever was given for the “real or true” gospel in the program. It seems that in order to take to task someone elses teaching one might first have to advance what is their own by a brief synopsis.

    Unfortunately it remains clear if Byran and Dr. B.’s understanding align with what Paul called “my Gospel”, or if something else or additional is in the minds of the host and his student. It is simply impossible to know from what was examined.

    Perhaps stating what you advocate first, then finding a foil to that position would be more straightforward and forthcoming. In Christ, J. H.

  19. Correction, second paragraph from the bottom.

    Unfortunately it remains unclear if Byran and Dr. B.’s understanding aligns with what Paul called “my Gospel”, or if something else or additional is in the minds of the host and his student. It is simply impossible to know from what was examinded on the show.

  20. Jabez,

    In recent weeks, I devoted an entire program to the definition of the gospel, and obviously, we cannot repeat everything discussed in every previous show in every subsequent show, so please do listen to that broadcast for further details.

    Also, I disputed John Crowder’s interpretation of “my gospel” in Romans 2:16, preferring a rendering like this: “This will take place on the day when God judges everyone’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares” (NIV) Or this, “on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.” (ESV)

    Finally, our posture was anything other than “we vs. whomever,” which we made clear from our opening comments, namely, that we were not heresy hunters, etc. Perhaps your perception of our discussion does not truly reflect the reality of our discussion? There are some serious abuses we did address and which are grievous, but we were careful not to demonize others or to paint with too broad a brush.

  21. Well…in all honesty I didn’t take much issue with the audio excerpts of John Crowder. I do take issue with some of the practices(tokin’ Holy Ghost, etc). This isn’t anything that new, however, as these things were taking place during the renewal/revival movements of the mid 90’s(not all of them, just saying it was around. I was a BRSM student in the late 90’s and never saw anything like that there).

    Back to the point…while his posture seems, at times, irreverent and too “light” I believe he makes important points. I thought the guest on the show, Sait(sp?) explained things very well and I find myself very much inline with what he had to say. Whether he is accurate or not in attributing that to John Crowder is another story and how could we know without talking to John Crowder himself?

    In all honesty I’m probably more concerned with the opposite extreme(those requiring Torah observance, for example) than I am a John Crowder type. A revelation of living by the Spirit/New covenant is the only path to true holiness. While it may not be always fully represented accurately, that revelation in and of itself is the springboard to living rightly. I never really understood the need to clearly outline standards of holiness as I find the Lord quite clearly directing me in areas of right/wrong living. It is progressive and unfolding as He reveals hidden areas within my own heart…as he brings them to the surface and leads me to a change of mind, heart and therefore action(repentance). Repentance may be the first word used in preaching the kingdom, but it’s an ongoing lifestyle intended on bringing us closer to Himself resulting in us revealing more of His kingdom to others.

    Quite simply, “let us behold both the kindness and severity of God”. I believe this sums it up pretty well.

  22. Dave,

    Amen to what you wrote, absolutely, but do the “New Mystics” emphasize what you wrote in your closing line? And was Jesus really an old covenant preacher, someone who preached “the law on steroids” — as opposed to the good news of the kingdom? And were the Gospels really written to support Paul — all stated on the video from which I quoting?

  23. Dave and Dr. Brown,

    I am wondering if when Y’shua preached for people to repent, it it had anything to do with obeying the only scripture then available. Paul would seem to think so, as the only scripture available to Timothy from the time that he was a child was the Law and the Prophets.

    2 Timothy 3
    15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Deuteronomy 30
    8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

    Certainly part of the good news of the kingdom was that those that were faithful to keep all the commandments and teach others to do the same would be great in the coming kingdom of Messiah. Those that practiced breaking some small commandments would be considered least in the kingdom. Those that disregarded the Torah would not be allowed to enter the kingdom.

    Matthew 5
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 7
    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
    22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    The gospel of the kingdom has much to do with being faithful to the scripture in this lifetime thus proving your loyalty to the King and His decrees. Those that prove their carnality and just can’t bring themselves into subjection to YHWH’s law in this lifetime will not fair well in the next.

    Romans 8
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Revelation 22
    11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
    12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    The gospel of the kingdom is not all about how can I be forgiven, but how can I show my gratitude and loyalty to the one that saved me…that gave me a new chance…that died for me. Those that are forgiven much, or at least think that they have, love much. Those that take grace lightly are deceived. What is love toward YHWH according to the scripture?

    Deuteronomy 7
    9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

    Deuteronomy 11
    13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

    Joshua 22
    5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

    John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 15
    10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

    1 John 5
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    If there is One Elohim, and that Elohim is made up of a Father, Son and Spirit, would it be correct to say that they agree with each other? Can the Son have a different view of truth than the Father. Can the Spirit lead us into truth that is contrary to the Father’s and the Son’s?

    John 16
    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself…

    John 10
    30 I and my Father are one.

    John 17
    17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth…
    19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

    Continued below.

  24. Continued from above.

    Righteousness does not come from keeping the law, but the law is kept by those that have been made righteous. To think otherwise is deception.

    1 John 3
    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    Do we have the hope of seeing Him as He is? Are we in agreement with John that those that transgress YHWH’s law are sinning and that those that keep it are righteous…not because they keep it, but because righteous people do righteous things. If we are being led by the Spirit we fulfill/keep righteousness the law.

    Romans 8
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Romans 3
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    May it never be that we think that we are walking in the reality and truth of the gospel when we are knowingly transgressing YHWH’s law. If we are going to the mirror of YHWH’s perfect law and walking away thinking that it does not apply to us and thus not doing what we read/hear, we are deceived.

    James 1
    22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
    23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
    24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
    25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

    There is great blessing and reward in obeying YHWH’s instructions. One of which is being great in the kingdom of Messiah.

    Psalm 19
    7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
    8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
    9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
    10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
    11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

    Matthew 5
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    No! Keeping the law is not the gospel. But having it written on our hearts so that we love to keep it is part of the new covenant. Forgiveness is only one part of the gospel…the fruit of obedience is the other.

    Jeremiah 31
    31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,

    I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

    and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

    for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Revelation 2
    5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    Hmm? The first works…Hmm?


  25. Bo,

    Of course, Yeshua’s repentance preaching to Jews in His day included a call to obey Torah. That being said, just a reminder that this is not the place to start yet another thread on whether Christians today must obey Torah. Feel free to continue that discussion in the other threads that are primarily devoted to that subject. Thanks!

  26. Dr. Brown,

    I was not planning any further discussion on this thread. I was just expressing what I think is a serious deviation from the gospel, which is the correct topic.

    I am still wondering why it is only for Jews to be great in the kingdom of heaven by keeping and teaching all of the commandments. (Mat. 5:19) Are us poor gentiles relegated to “least in the kingdom” at best? This just doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

    The gospel of the kingdom is more than just getting saved. I am thinking that we have been offered a place of authority if we are willing to show our loyalty and faithfulness by doing exactly as Y’shua recommended. The good news is not that we only get saved by the skin of our teeth, but that we a can rule with Messiah…if, and only if, we do as He stated…Jew or Gentile.


  27. If one can not speak truthfully about Jesus and His Kingdom, then don’t speak anything at all. Some people do not represent Jesus the correct way. The way Jesus wants to be portrayed.

    Repent and speak TRUTH!!!!!

  28. On your earlier response to my first comment, I clarify that your program was not understood as being about heresy hunting, nor was it perceived that way. When I mentioned in my comment the radio program stance of remarking on ‘whoever’–being in this case used as a contrasting lesser than faithful reproduction of Gospel Message teaching becoming then in program consequence a contrasting lesser character “foil” of the truth of the Gospel of Jesus than was assumed in mind by the radio host and guest–the objection was over not first briefly outlining the host’s and his student’s understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (i.e. first giving your faithful understanding and Bryan’s). Where, three times Paul briefly outlines his Gospel as “my Gospel”, he gives his such summary very succinctly. Inclusions and exclusions for such an establishment are profoundly definitive of the real Gospel. Usually this is the case he follows before going on to engaging any disputable matters, disagreements, or admonitions.
    This is clarified too as to his manner by its establishment accompanying his conveying the divinely appointed Message of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ being declared as his essential Gospel Message. This is given in New Testament contexts along with the additional concern of the Day of reckoning all will know regarding one’s life outcome of an obedience to Jesus (it being also found mixed with his basic “my Gospel” identification[s]). Paul keeps this basic message simple as to its declaration establishing and permitting an initial faith in Jesus Christ, as a divinely appointed Gospel Message, and as to it influencing his own posture toward others in his role as an Apostle who was named by and beheld Jesus Christ as risen savior and Lord (II Cor. 4:5). He holds that such a ministry as was his and was the eyewitnesses of risen Christ maintained an attitude, manner, truth, and humble relationship with Jesus then in heaven. This appears in the NT by giving the related words to others set by Jesus per the Spirit of the Commission. Consider Jesus’ sermons given to unconverted crowds, as well as to His disciples at the same time, if there is any doubt the truth of this statement.
    The basic doctrines of God’s self revelations, of Christ’s Atonement’s offer of justification, a believer’s adoption, ongoing sanctification, and life in the Spirit as are presented as contrasting with the world’s idolatry, are written by Paul to the Romans (about the believer’s direct relationship to New Life up through Romans 8). Next, he deals with the Jewish question (Romans 9-11), and finally, as to his teaching advocacies, with discovery of the Way of forbearance of anyone one strong in the faith of others, especially those weak in it (see Rom 12:9-15:9).
    It is in this final examination section on the quality of this forbearance being of the truth, Way, and life made possible of abiding in New Covenant Gospel Life, which is being clarified for one’s life application of ministry and brotherhood for conveyance of the Gospel Message in this section of Romans. To hold that a sin emphasis is the essence of the duty of ministry conveyance of the Gospel, or to omit sin’s final reckoning being part and parcel to it, would in both cases be in error. As Paul shares in the last section of Romans which I mention, one not bearing with the weak in faith through a supposed Gospel minister’s own self conduct of one’s word, attitude, and deed—or by any self insistence for either personal liberty or law being above Jesus’ Way of a considered conveyance of the Message–is declared to be incomplete as to one fulfilling a ministry of the Lord Jesus (where He came into this world as kinsman-redeemer0. Love is the fulfillment of the law Paul declares in this passage. And, bearing with the weak in the faith by a believer’s careful self monitored personal conduct as such being modeled is also declared there.

    Paul certainly mentions applying the Sermon on the Mount throughout this section of Romans as to establishing relational personal ministry sensibilities indeed forbearing its Good News self and others identification.
    The point I am making here, and earlier, is that any doctrinal insistence, for or against establishing a preference of need of an awareness of sin and repentance—without making a humble restatement of an ongoing essential self association of being humbly alike linked with a basic outlined Message of the Gospel of Jesus–may convey an equally glaring Gospel conveyance fidelity error as was declared of another religious teacher on this program. Doctrinal concerns as examined on this program are not the only error of achieving a faithful Gospel Message conveyance and related preaching. Where no restatement clarification of the Gospel through an associated teaching minister is made, by giving its succinct summary for a hearing of its Message, the true Gospel is neither faithfully mentioned, nor clarified.
    Simply mentioning the Gospel as a reality in a program does not relationally declare its enablement of established ability to change lives, no matter if mentioned elsewhere faithfully or not. For Paul a relationship to its brief outline is made again and again prior to offering any thoughtful dealing with disputable matters. His position in teaching then never asserts a superior assumption over others other than a position as fortified in humility in Christ of the apostles as being those remarking on any other ministry, religion, element of idolatry, apostasy, or doctrinal error. His letter’s declaration clarifications then enter into the relational mix of almost all apostolic communication related to conveying the Gospel Message. So, if a consciousness of ministry in application does not regard the vessel of such as being of an equal humility before Christ, through presenting an outlined association with the essential Message content and present relational context when taking on disputable matters, it fails the disciples’ charge for applying the truth and Way in asserting and applying its essential Message. In doing so one does not just mention the Gospel as an allusion to next engage disputable matters, a minister so related examines his own heart and mind to see whether in doing so he remains in the faith.
    Without such a reiteration framework establishment over and over for a Gospel of Christ ministry and communication, as is found as emphasized regarding the later Romans relational passage on those weak in faith, something is lost in the translation and conveyance of the Message (or in taking to task another Bible teacher’s error regarding conveying the Spirit of the Message in addition to its content. Matthew 18’s direct communication processes are advocated for the Ecclesia, i.e. those of Jesus’ own church,as given by the Master as essential to the practice of reconciliation in ministry. This holds true where issues of offense arise—in order to not think too highly of one’s own self. This holds true in conveying in attitude a lack of forbearance, which may seem to think too highly of oneself in tasking in posturing for doctrinal precision without first establishing the so tasking minister’s own dependence for righteousness on the Message of Christ. To be credible, the ministry of Christ, must alike self associate a personal need of the provisions for relationship with Christ.
    Any supposed minister commenting on another supposed ministry then has a responsibility to ever reestablish the foundation of faith in a related personal humility in so conveying its alike association for others. This burden of discipleship holds in any related communication regarding making to others an essential Gospel Message assertion, as such. The chosen apostles’ example demonstrates doing so prior to taking to task another teacher’s believed errors as to establishing the Gospel of Jesus Christ’s authentic conveyance. It is never wrong to then briefly outline the Gospel’s establishments and essence before going to other matters.
    The final command to ‘Love as I have loved’, and Paul’s mature admonition as to bearing with one who is weak in faith come also into play in exercising the sensibilities regarded of this section of Romans in dealing with disputable matters, other believers, and truth and grace establishments, in addition to the Spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. The Sermon on the Mount, interlaced in Paul’s life application admonitions given within this section of Romans mentioned here, ever lingers over the whole People of God in their own foci to become in effect like Christ. There is no escape from ministry itself not insisting on its own way in making efforts of advancing the Kingdom of God in Christ: especially when dealing with those weak in faith, and those in disputable matters of interpreting the Way, truth, and Life as well. Each time a topic or message is explored among believers, finding and couching ministry as being conducted from a point of view as servants of others for His sake cannot be dismissed from the sacred duty of bearing His Yoke. The time will come for this present generation to indeed confess their sins before the presence of God, now or hereafter. And we must see ourselves in sharing the Gospel as alike sharing the sacred trust of overhearing such confession as will be made, as given to the Father, then practicing as ambassadors of Christ, a clear and present acceptance, forgiveness, and mutual regard to those coming into relationship with the Spirit of Christ. The call for conversion of the soul is not a call to a false perfectionism of religious observation, it is a call to repentance for receiving the complete Atonement of sin.

  29. FYI paragraphs were indicated in the posting and writing, above, which did not carry forward. Even so, a read of this comment is in everyone’s interest who would be ministers of the Good News of Jesus Christ.

  30. Dr. Brown,

    1.) I read his book a few years back(The New Mystics) and gleaned some good things but as far as I can tell they don’t emphasize both the kindness and severity of God.

    2.) I think the way I would state it would be that Jesus’ preaching “the law on steroids” is accurate in the sense that He was simply revealing the “law abider’s” hearts(which we can’t ourselves change) which then pointed to the Good News of the Kingdom that was to be realized just a few short years later. I do believe it is unwise to relay this truth in the way he(John Crowder) does as if Jesus message is unneccesary. Was it not Jesus anointed preaching revealing their hearts that opened the door to Holy Spirit conviction? Yes! This same One who convicts then empowers us to live as we should.

    3.) Were they(gospels) written to support Paul? Well, I believe there is a reality of the bible’s unfolding plan, or crossing over, from Old Covenant to New. I do believe there is a continuum, if you will, presented as we look at the bible…but it all fits together. It seems to me we cannot accurately receive “Paul’s teaching” with out our first submitting to “Jesus’ preaching”, if that makes sense. It’s as if Jesus exposed our inner corruption and provided our way back, which is repentance(a complete change in our approaching God, not JUST turning from sin, as important as it is) and Paul taught us more HOW to live in this new way of the Spirit.

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