Dr. Brown Answers Your Questions

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Is there spiritual meaning behind John the Baptist and Jesus being cousins? How do we know which of the Old Testament laws are fulfilled in Christ, and which ones we still need to follow? And how should Christians respond to Halloween? Dr. Brown answers these questions and more today on the Line of Fire!

Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Let us fearlessly present the truth, with clarity, wisdom, passion, and faith, knowing as Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “We can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth!”

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Truth will always triumph in the end! Never forget it!

Featured Resource:


Other Resources:


A Queer Thing Happened To America AND Can You Be Gay and Christian? (Brown/Knox Debate)


The Great Debate [DVD]: Dr. Michael Brown tackles the perennial issue of suffering and the problem of pain with leading New Testament scholar and agnostic Dr. Bart Ehrman at Ohio State University.

60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices: Dr. Michael Brown answers sixty common questions about Jewish people and Jewish culture. He also addresses questions Christians have about their own relationship to the Old Testament Law.

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus vol. 4 by Dr. Brown: In this volume of the Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus series, Dr. Brown counters the arguments that the New Testament mistranslates, misuses, and misunderstands the Hebrew Scriptures, also addressing the objections that Jesus or Paul abolished the Law.

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Our Hands Are Stained with Blood by Dr. Brown: This shocking and painful book tells the tragic story of the “Church” and the Jewish people. It is a story every Christian must hear.

476 Comments
  1. The body of Christ judging itself.

    For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

    Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 1 Corinthians 6:2-5

    For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 1 Corinthians 11:31-33

    Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 1 Corinthians 14:29

  2. David Roberts,
    1. The point of #343 was to prove that not even just because a person is a legitimate member of the Body of Christ (since some are impostors) does this mean they are worthy of judging the Body; some members sleep with their father’s wife, or boast they are baptized by Paul or Apollos – some members are unspiritual; consequently, they are unworthy of rendering proper judgment.

    2. Since Bo refuses to respond to the question of 1 Cor 9:20, will you? Please defend your position.

    3. As for the issue of Gal 5, I’ve come to understand, by God’s Grace, another level of Truth from it: I now view Galatians 5 as a text which irrefutably destructs the false “Gospel” of Torah-observance for believers . It does this in the aforementioned manner (setting believers free from “the whole Law” by telling people NOT to get circumcised for justification), and the following:

    A) 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.
    3 Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    4 Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the Law: ye are fallen away from grace.
    11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? then hath the stumbling-block of the cross been done away.

    Seeing that there, here, are set before us TWO channels we may choose from whereby we may make our appeal to God – two “Gospels” (for, what is “preached”, but a “Gospel”? – and Paul asks why, if he “preached” circumcision, was he being persecuted), as it were, that any given man might have preached or may preach – we are forced into the realization that a choice is to be made:

    i. “Do I wish to keep Christ and His grace (unto forfeiture of all else – including circumcision and the whole Law); or do I cling to circumcision (and the whole Law with it) but lose Christ and His grace?
    ii. Which one of the two does God hold in higher esteem – MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS via from my exertion [Ro 9:16] of my effort to work the works of the Law, or a RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD via faith in Christ [Pp 3:9] and His exertion of His (grace) effort [Pp 3:21] to work in me to will and do for His good pleasure?
    iii. How am I planning to present myself before God on the Day of Judgment – will I want to go the route of trusting in Christ and His Grace, or the route of trusting my own ability to work the works of the Law of Moses (which, in case I forget, was/is a Minister of Condemnation)? Who do I want by my side on that Day – a Mediator of a “New and better Covenant” [Hb 12:24] of perfection [Hb 10:14; 11:40; 12:23] or a Minister of “Condemnation” [2 Cor 9:20]?

    B) 7 Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth?
    8 This persuasion came not of Him that calleth you.
    9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

    Paraphrase: who made you disobey the True Gospel (by preaching this “Circumcision” Gospel [Gal 1:6-9; 5:2,4,7,11] to you)? May they be accursed [Gal 1:8,9]!
    Their “Gospel” does not come from the Spirit of Life [Gal 5:8]; it is a doctrine of demons [1 Ti 4:1] (for, “this persuasion” does not come from the Spirit of Jesus, what other option is there – where else could it come from?)!

    C) 1 For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage.
    13 For ye, brethren, were called unto freedom; only use not your freedom for an occasion to the flesh, but through love be servants one to another.

    We’re not free from the Law to “indulge in the flesh” [Col 2:23] (this is the most succinct definition of “sin”; “breaking the Law” is not); rather, we’re free from [Gal 5:1] and dead to [Ro 7:4,6; Gal 2:19] the Law (because the sinful flesh, with its Law of Sin [Ro 7:23] – to which the Law, with its Accusations [John 5:45] and Condemnation [2 Cor 3:9] corresponded – died when we believed in Christ), in order that we may be may become one with [Gal 3:27-29] Christ [Ro 7:4] the Righteous, and by living with/through Him Who is Righteous (rather than through the Law), we “live unto God” [Gal 2:19] (just as the Israelites were not brought out of Egypt to live in the wilderness, but to receive Torah and enter the Promised Land).

    =========================
    Conclusion: “Being found in Christ” [Gal 5:4; Pp 3:9] (i.e.: Grace, not Law [Ro 6:14]) is the “method of righteousness” (not circumcision and the whole of the works of the Law – which is “another Gospel”) under the New and Better Covenant of Perfection – for, in laboring to be found in and remain in Christ [1 J 2:28], we will have entered “the Way, the Truth and the Life”. You can do works of the Law as unto God, but you can’t preach it as a means of justification or of becoming more spiritual [Gal 3:3].

    Hope this makes sense! Enjoy!

  3. The key verse is

    Galatians 5
    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Justification by the law puts one under the law, because all have sinned. Keeping the law is not equal with being under the law. Being circumcised does not put one under the law, as we know that Paul circumcised Timothy. Was Timothy a debtor to keep the whole law? No! Certainly Paul did not cause him to fall from grace. If our justification by faith does not produce obedience, it is not real faith.

    We are only debtors to keep the whole law if we are seeking to be justified by it. If we are neglecting to keep it, we are sinning. And we are not to sin just because we are under grace instead of being under law.

    Romans 6
    14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
    16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    If we do not yield our members to righteousness, we are servants of sin. The law is righteous and Paul told Timothy to get his instruction in righteousness from the law. Being led by the Spirit causes us to fulfill/perform the righteousness of the law. Being carnal minded keeps us from keeping the law.

    Romans 8
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    The things of the Spirit include YHWH’s law. Contrary to Dan1el’s assertion, we are commanded to obey YHWH, though no commandment keeping of ours can save us. We are to keep YHWH’s commandments, not to get saved or to be adopted, but because we are saved and we are already in the family.

    Keeping the law is not works salvation, but simply being good sons. Just because our older brother paid our debt does not mean that we are supposed to continue to take out loans. We may not continue to speed, just because our traffic ticket has been paid. Just because we have been bought out of slavery of sin, does not mean that we are allowed to continue to serve sin. We serve sin when we break the law, for transgression of the law is sin.

    Shalom

  4. Daniel,

    I looked at your #311 point 2. I actually agree with some of what you said. Like I agree with you that we can not attain eternal life(be saved) by keeping the Torah. I also agree with you that Shabbat, New Moons and the Feast Days are shadows that point us to Yeshua. But, I do disagree with your belief that because Yeshua came we do not need to observe the shadows anymore. The prophet Isaiah also disagrees with you.

    Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the YHWH.

    Here Yeshayahu says that during the thousand year reign of Yeshua, we will still be keeping the shadows even though Yeshua will be here physically. Ezekiel also disagrees with you. Read Ezekiel 45:21-46:3. In these verses it is clear that during the thousand year reign we will be keeping Shabbat, New Moon and the Feast Days.

    Thus saith the Master YHWH; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that [is] among the children of Israel.

    So we see in this verse that Yeshua will not even allow anyone into His Temple who is not circumcised in the flesh. The shadows are still being observed when Yeshua is ruling on earth. Zechariah also disagrees with you.

    Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, YHWH of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    17And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, YHWH of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the YHWH will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    Here we have YHWH even punishing Gentiles for not keeping the Feast of Sukkot during Yeshua’s reign! It is obvious that we should keep the shadows even though Yeshua has come. Even during the thousand year reign we will be keeping them!

    So I have two options.

    1) Either Shaul was painfully ignorant of the prophets.

    or

    2)He did not teach what you say he taught.

    Yeah, I’m going with number two!

    On this blog I have stood with Yeshua and His Prophets and I have defended His Torah! But you will not listen! Do not use the Grace of our Master Yeshua HaMashiach as a license to sin! Please Daniel repent and go and sin no more! I will pray for you and Dr. Brown.

    Shalom

  5. Barrett, so, it appears you are saying that if any follower of Jesus does not seek to observe all of the written Torah (as much as is possible) then that person is in sin. All clear — and you are absolutely in error, based on the Scripture. I only pray that your error will not cause you to depart from real faith in Yeshua. I’ve debated this here in the past and won’t do so again, but are you free to call into my show to present your point on a Thursday.

  6. @Dr. Michael Brown,

    I think you’re right about almost everything doctrinally, but with all due respect, it is actually you who are in error and have a massive blind spot when you teach that the Torah is optional for Jewish believers and to be discouraged for Gentile Believers.

    The scriptural position is that it is binding and required for Jewish believers and that there is time and grace for Gentile believers regarding the Tora, that it is for the Holy Spirit to led the uncultivated branches into the fullness and richness of the righteousness of the faith and good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. The children of Abraham do the works of Abraham.

    Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My keepings, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:5

  7. David,

    Haven’t we discussed this before? “Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed. Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.” Gal 3:23-25, NET)

  8. David Roberts,

    You might be interested in this:

    “Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Yahushua Messiah might be given to them that believe.

    Were it not for the Torah, we would not have recognized our sin and we would have not sought to receive the promise by faith in Yahushua. So the Torah has an important role in us receiving the promise, but the Torah itself does not give us the promise. The Torah does promise life to those who do the things which were written within it, but none of us have done the things which are written within it! Only Yahushua has done it. Therefore we need to be a part of Him, and we need to abide in Him in order for us to receive the promise. The promise is to Him, and He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.. no man comes to the Father except through Him. Of course, as we discussed in the Galatians 2 study, those who abide in Him will want to walk as He walked…keeping the Torah.

    1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

    But it is faith and salvation that comes first, not Torah observance. Otherwise, we are ALL condemned. Continuing in Galatians 3:

    Galatians 3:23-24 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

    Before we believed, the Torah/law kept us under guard as a schoolmaster to teach us that we needed salvation and redemption. It confined us all under sin, kept until the promise by faith in Yahushua would be revealed to us. It’s purpose is to bring us to Yahushua so that we can be declared righteous by faith.

    If today we chose to put ourselves under the law, we would be condemned. But if we humbly admitted that we needed Yahweh’s grace and chose to believe in the promise of justification by faith in Yahushua, we would be a part of His body and He would dwell in us so that we can receive the promise of eternal life.

    Galatians 3:25-27 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of Elohim by faith in Messiah Yahushua. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Messiah have put on Messiah.

    If we were still under the schoolmaster/law, we would still be looking for the way to get out of the confinement of sin. But we consider ourselves children of Elohim by faith in Yahushua who is a Child of the living Elohim. We were baptized into Messiah and have put on Messiah. It is no longer we who live; it is Messiah who lives in us.

    This being the case, we are no longer under the law/tutor which had the intent of bringing us to Yahushua through confining/concluding us all under sin. But of course, this does not mean that we can continue in sin so that grace may abound:

    Romans 6:15-16 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? Elohim forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Romans 6:1-6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 Elohim forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Yahushua Messiah were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    Paul never taught that being under grace was a license to continue breaking Yahweh’s law. This is another perversion, the modern “good news” that is often proclaimed today. Rather, the fact that we are now Body of Messiah should demonstrate that we are to live as He did, walk as He walked and love as He loved. He kept the Torah perfectly, and it is He who now lives in us. Our choice to turn away from Torah breaking and receive Him for our salvation is evidence that He lives in us.

    The problem with the Galatians is that they had it backwards. You don’t seek obedience to the law through human effort and then receive salvation; you receive salvation through Yahushua’s indwelling so that you have the power to walk in obedience!”- http://www.eliyah.com/galatians3kjv.html

    Shalom

  9. Bo & Co.,
    First of all, you guys’ entire premise is wrong – you’re asking the wrong questions; briefly: the question shouldn’t be “WILL the written Law pass away?”; rather, “WHEN will the written Law pass away?

    ” What? Why?”

    Either on the twilight of (which we are currently in), during the course of, or subsequent to “the restoration of all things” [Acts 3:2], we can be certain that the written Law will (ipso facto) be removed: the written Law is a fixture of the “interim” (i.e.: this aberration between the previous and forthcoming perfect) period, and will with no doubt pass away with it (Mt 5:18
    “…UNTIL…”).

    As for the texts you presented – bottom line: y ou’re offering me YOUR UNEDUCATED INTERPRETATION of the texts; but, Paul (an “interpreter”, whose interpretations – you’ll have to forgive me – I am going to lean on and support, rather than your’s) received the understanding from the Spirit of Grace that the age in which the Law would no longer hold sway had already arrived (as opposed to waiting for any “future age”).

    If you want more answers, I have them; but, for now, let’s see if you listen to that.

  10. @Dr. Brown,

    Just wanted to say you’re a real solider doing the radio and your other work with West Nile Virus. I hope you can find some time for RnR and get well soon.

    And I think you deserve recognition for how you go out of your way to let gays know you really do love them.

  11. BO,
    1. re: “The key verse is:”
    You’re saying that men are “good sons” (i.e.: righteous) only if they keep the Law after being born again, which confutes your own statement that we are not justified by the Law.
    Justification isn’t a one-time deal; we “were saved” we are “being saved” and we “will be saved” [Hb 9:28] (transformed into His very Image by His Grace [Php 3:21; 1 P 1:13].

    These are three tenses in which salvation/justification is taking place, and none of them are by works of the Law; all are by “the exertion of His power” [Php 3:21] (unless you believe in once-saved-always-saved, and that “justification” and the need to live in a “just” manner is a one-time deal).

    2. re: “Good Boys Keep The Law”
    i. As has been established countless times, the Law “couldn’t make anyone righteous” [Gal 2:21; 3:21] – “making men righteous” was/is not something the Law is “good” for. Rather, the Law was “weak” with respect to making men righteous, because it counted on men who were naturally evil to be holy (something they were not) [Rom 8:3,4] (this is why it is called a Minister of Condemnation – it can only condemn; it cannot make someone a new creation, which is ‘all that matters’ [Gal 6:15]).

    The only “solution” [Mt 26:39] to the dilemma of man’s interminable unrighteousness was/is his annihilation – with his Law of Sin [Rom 7:23] – and subsequent “re-birthing” [1 P 1:23], as a “new creature” [Gal 6:15] (with a new Constitution/Law/Desire in himself [Rom 8:1,2]).

    Now, this “type” of “righteousness” (never before seen in the fallen world) is effectuated via the following method: “faith in Jesus Christ” (NOT by doing the works of the Law) – nothing is added to such a “type” of righteousness by observation of written Laws! It wasn’t brought about by observing written Laws, so how is observing written Laws going to add to it [Gal 3:1-3]!?

    ii. Question: was Adam a “bad boy” – was he “unrighteous”?
    I mean, he didn’t have a written Law! How could he be a good boy – righteous!? Could you have somehow added to his “righteousness”; or wasn’t he “born” naturally morally perfect? So are we.
    What Adam had was better than observing Laws – what Adam had was LIFE (he was not “dead in sins and trespasses”); so do we.
    The LIFE he possessed hadn’t arisen through any power of his own, based on a written Law! Neither is it with us.
    We can safely assume that he WAS “righteous” (after all, he was told he could eat from the tree of life [Gn 2:16] – something which, once unrighteousness had entered, became prohibited [Gn 3:22])!
    How had Adam “merited” the right to eat from the tree of life, previously? He didn’t; he was merely born into it. So are we.
    And what kind of “Law” was he given, thereafter – written? No, (he couldn’t read); God spoke directly to him. So it is with us.

    What is wrong with Paul’s doctrine that men should not be under a written Law to instruct them on service to God; that they should receive Instruction whereby they may serve God directly from His Spirit [Rom 7:6]? As I will point out to Barrett, even Rabbi Schochet (an eminent Pharisee) agrees that death makes a Jew free from Torah [Ro 7:4] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIDPb80FV8)!

    iii. But (as I mentioned in #239), in case anyone isn’t sure whether the “prohibition” against believing in the false Gospel of seeking to be righteous/justified through Torah-observance extended only to the initial belief in Christ unto salvation (and not also to the growth in the Spirit), Paul makes it clear that the belief that “good boys will carry out the works of the Law”) is false, when he says:
    a. “for, in Christ, neither circumcision (and the whole Law with it [Gal 5:3]) nor uncircumcision count for anything”
    b. that people who think they are going to progress in the Spirit by works of the Law (after having begun by faith of hearing) are “fools” [Gal 3:3].
    Bo, please explain to me how what you’re suggesting is any less “foolish”, because I sure can’t see it. Works of the Law isn’t for salvation, NOR for progress in the Sprit!
    Why wasn’t Titus (though being a Gentile – thus, obviously, “in need” of being circumcised, right?) compelled to be circumcised [Gal 2:3]? Was he being a “bad boy”?

    ————————-

    God is a Spirit, and man was born to know and serve God in the spiritual realm – we are restored to that sort of relationship (which Adam was naturally born into) through our death and rebirth (not through observance of Law – nor will observance of Torah get anyone further along in the Spirit after they have begun in the Spirit by faith of hearing).

    3. LOL @ the statement “transgression is the law is sin”. Nice try, but don’t twist the words of Scripture around to make them fit your exegesis, Bo – that statement doesn’t appear in Scripture: “sin is transgression of the Law” does.
    This means that IF someone sins, the Law can tell; however, this does not mean that breaking the Law is sinning. The Priests break the Shabbat (in the “Holy” Temple no less!) to circumcise a boy! Are they sinning? Indulging in the flesh? Hm… better re-think this one, Bo!

    We’ve already gone over this particular point several times, and you’ve not once offered any compelling argument to the contrary.

  12. Barrett,
    1. “But, I do disagree with your belief that because Yeshua came we do not need to observe the shadows anymore.”

    God (by inescapable conclusion) had previously “Instructed” men to sleep with their sisters [Gn 1:28]; later, He abolished that “Instruction” (Torah), so that what was once a “Holy Command from YHWH” became a despicable act – and the same thing goes for His Command to Noach to eat clean and unclean: later, it becomes an unlawful act for Jews.

    Now, if we are understanding correctly, this must cause us to conclude that “the Instructions of God” (Torah) are “time-sensitive” (time being just one of any number of aspects which may regulate His Instructions’ relevance and applicability). Not all of His Instructions are applicable to all times (either present ones to past times, or past ones to present times); thus, how is it that His Instructions (Torah) are being presented as if “immutable”? GOD is immutable; His Instructions are not – more on that, in point #3.

    2. re: “Being circumcised does not put one under the Law, as we know that Paul circumcised Timothy. Was Timothy a debtor to keep the whole Law? No!” “Keeping the Law is not equal with being ‘under the law'”.

    In a sense, you’re right; Paul “kept the Law” many times “as unto God” [Ro 14:5-8] – i.e.: in order to appeal to and save Jewish souls; thus it wasn’t personal righteousness that he sought through “adherence to the Law”; at those moments, what “counted” wasn’t circumcision or uncircumcision” [Gal 6:15], but “a new creation” whose “…faith expressed itself through love” [Gal 5:6] (i.e.: the righteous intention of the salvation of Jewish souls) that “counted”. In that sense, I agree: depending on your approach, some “keeping the Law” does not put you “under the dominion of the Law” [1 Cor 9:20].

    3. Jews Are Released From The Law Through Death

    This is something even Rabbi Schochet (an eminent Rabbi) agrees with (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIDPb80FV8).
    He teaches (if you watch the video) that in the Messianic Age, something un-precedented and strange will occur: there will exist a Jewish man who has been exempted from Torah through dying [Ro 7:4] (it holds sway only over a living Jew), but this same man (who died, and was exempted from Torah, thereby) will rise from the dead and be living!
    What to do about Torah-observance, then!? He has already been exempted!
    In that case, he speculates, Torah will be observed after a “different angle” or “deeper level” (for an example of Paul doing this very thing, read 1 Cor 9:9).

    That death sets a Jewish man free from Torah, there is no doubt – Rabbi Schochet and Apostle Paul do not disagree!
    Their only disagreement would be the “HOW” and the “WHEN”!

    According to our faith, Paul teaches that man dies through faith in Christ, and is raised with Him (thus, setting us free from Torah); the unbelieving Jews are waiting for a physical death and physical resurrection (forgetting that Adam didn’t first die a physical death, but a spiritual one – thus, the resurrection is spiritual first, then physical)! Jesus was/is the resurrection [John 11:25]! Are you going to argue with Rabbi Schochet, too? He agrees with Romans 7:4 that death sets a Jew free from Torah, but only disagrees about HOW and WHEN that death will take place!

    We are told not to be overly-engaged with the things of this age (even marriage is not to be clung to [1 Cor 7:31], so that may be free to press into the next age); I believe this also extends to the Law which appeared during the interim age, and which Hebrews says is “vanishing”!

    4) re: Entering The Temple Not For Uncircumcised
    Now for a little speculation of my own.
    I’m about to ask a sort of peculiar question that may be a little uncomfortable for some.
    Was Adam “circumcised” – i.e.: did he even have a “need” to be circumcised? Did he have a “foreskin”, or was that a physical feature that came about after the fall (almost like a symbolic physical trait, mirroring the fact that the flesh had usurped and was now standing over the spirit man) – with circumcision being a sort of symbolic gesture that meant (even if only God knew what it meant) “our relationship is gonna be just like before the fall”?

    I can’t speak for you, but I believe “entropy” (decay) happened AFTER the sin of Adam and the fall – when “the glory of God departed” (to to speak) from His creation.
    I believe that “outside” of God’s presence, things change for the worse; “inside” God’s presence, our attitudes change, deformities and diseases (which appeared in an interim time, during which His presence had not been filling us) disappear – even the nature of plants and wildlife changes: lions (in God’s presence) used to eat grass…

    Gn 1:30
    “30And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.”

    …however, during this fallen age, they eat other animals.
    Well, what happened?
    Their nature (and most likely, their physical features to fit their nature-changes) changed! – however, at the return of God’s Glory, lions will eat grass [Is 11:7], as they formerly did (I believe that this is – at least, in part – what Jesus meant by “the restoration of all things” [Acts 3:21])!

    Therefore:
    a. If overcoming believers are to enter the temple, is it possible that they will be “transformed” in the presence of God in such a way so as to not need to circumcise themselves? If circumcision is something that needs to be done to men in this age (but it didn’t need to be done to Adam, as it may be a result of “entropy”) – in the same way that animals will miraculously revert to their original states – then, there’s nothing to worry about.

    b. It is also possible, on the other hand, that this Scripture may not even have any bearing on overcoming believers (since it is concerning into an earthly temple, into which an overcoming believer may not necessarily even bother to enter – since they who are “in Christ” are already “in” the “True Temple”, and wouldn’t bother entering any “copy” of the real Temple). We may be busy doing other things, or living in some other place.

    One thing is for sure, though: at the time you are talking about, we will have been transformed into the very same Image of Jesus (and it will be done through the exertion of HIS POWER; not our obeying Law [Php 3:21; 1 P 1:13; 1 J 3:2]). That means that we will be acceptable – and it will be through His power being exerted: this is how salvation began and how it will end! Grace!

    5. Sabbaths, New Moons, Festivals
    i. Upon such as “overcome” [Rv 2:12] – “remaining” [John 15:2-7; 1 J 2:28] in Christ (Who is “in the Father, and the Father in Him” [John 14:10]; Who are themselves the actual “Temple” [John 2:19; Rv 21:22] to which any Temple – i.e.: those created by mens’ hands – correspond) and thus being “priests” [Rv 1:6] who “never leave the Temple” [Rv 3:12] – no light of the sun will shine [Rv 7:13-16; 21:23].
    How will they know when seven days have passed if they aren’t even walking by the light of the sun?
    Therefore, I believe that to interpret Is 66:23 as meaning “we will observe (what is TODAY known as) new moon, sabbath, etc.,”, is not well-thought-out.

    ii. The resurrection of the righteous will take place “on the last day” [John 11:24] – but, there are two resurrections, and they cannot take place simultaneously, since Rv 20:5 says the resurrection of those men who were not saints happens 1,000 years later!
    If the time for resurrection is “the last day”, then the date of both resurrections is on this same “day” – that “Day” is the 1,000-year reign of Christ, otherwise known as “the DAY of the LORD”!
    Suffice to say: time will have undergone a change in the coming age. Mt 25 says that “those days will be cut short” leading up to the return of Messiah. We do not know what the nature of time will be, then – so, how can we presume that a “Sabbath” then will be the same as it is known today?

    As Rabbi Schochet said, it is possible that these Laws will be observed after some deeper level or different angle (as Paul taught [1 Cor 9:9]); but, beyond a shadow of a doubt, there will be a change in the way in which the Torah applies.

    As I said before, I will say again:
    “ God (by inescapable conclusion) had previously “Instructed” men to sleep with their sisters [Gn 1:28]; later, He abolished that “Instruction” (Torah), so that what was once a “Holy Command from YHWH” became a despicable act – and the same thing goes for His Command to Noach to eat clean and unclean: later, it becomes an unlawful act for Jews.

    Now, if we are understanding correctly, this must cause us to conclude that “the Instructions of God” (Torah) are “time-sensitive” (time being just one of any number of aspects which may regulate His Instructions’ relevance and applicability). Not all of His Instructions are applicable to all times (either present ones to past times, or past ones to present times); thus, how is it that His Instructions (Torah) are being presented as if “immutable”? GOD is immutable; His Instructions are not. ”

  13. Dan1el,

    How do you know the the law about not sleeping with one’s sister is still in place? Why could that not be restored now that we are new creatures? How do you know that the shadow of marriage has not passed away and that we should only let the unregenerate procreate while all of us born again new creations just preach the good news and deny the fleshly aspect of the marriage shadow…since you seem to think that shadows are no longer to be done? Is the restoration of grass eating lions here yet?

    The new Jerusalem will have no need of sun, but the Messianic kingdom will have the same kind of days and months and feast days as we do now. Your hopeful possibilities are not the correct things to base doctrine on. Until the new heaven and new earth, Torah remains the same and those that keep it and teach others to keep it will be great in the Messianic kingdom. Those that ignore it will not enter the kingdom, though they confess “Lord, lord.”

    Matthew 5
    18 For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished.
    19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches people to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches /these commandments/ will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 7
    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but /only/ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
    22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
    23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

    Purifying ourselves is part of the walk of a true believer. It is in the context of sin being the transgression of the law. John says that it us new creation/sons of YHWH that are to do this. When Messiah appears is when the time frame of doing this is over, for then we will be like Him…perfectly keeping YHWH’s commandments in a restored body.

    1 John 3
    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    If we do not confess our law breaking as sin, then we will not be cleansed from all our unrighteousness.

    1 John 1
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    It is not good to be in the deceived state of thinking that those that do not do righteousness are righteous. It is not good to teach men that Torah need not be done. It makes least in the kingdom people out of them at best and keeps them out of the kingdom at worst.

    Shalom

  14. Bo,
    1. I never said to sleep with your sister; I believe it is best for people (if they have grace) to not get married AT ALL – that is not of the coming age, to which we are called to attend.

    What I said was that there is a clear example of a Holy Law of God that WAS Commanded, and then revoked.

    2. You still haven’t answered 1 Cor 9:20 many posts later.

    3. Paul thinks the age where we are free from the Torah has already arrived – hmm… who will I believe?

    4. What do you say to the fact that even a Jew – Rabbi Schochet – says that
    a) the Law does not have power over a dead Jew, and
    b) the Torah will not be observed after the same manner in the Messianic Age (contrary to your unsound and anti-Gospel exegesis)?

    5. You make many allegations, but provide no proof – yet, you forget somehow that you have scampered away from the challenge to respond to 1 Cor 9:20! Answer it! The reason you won’t is because it disproves your “another Gospel” that you preach. You will give an account.

  15. Bo,
    There are many points I made that you haven’t responded to; don’t pretend they haven’t been made. For instance, your false Gospel that men are “good boys” if they keep the Law after being saved was thoroughly refuted and you have not responded to it.

    You have no answers – that’s why, Bo.

  16. Dan1el,

    This rabbi of yours means nothing to me, nor do his opinions. I just believe Paul, that it is wrong to sin/break the law just because we not under it but under grace.

    The question was how do you know that the law against sleeping with your sister is not repealed at this point in time?

    Shalom

  17. Bo,
    1. The Rabbi is not “mine”; the point is that he knows the Law way better than you, so you should listen – even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and Rabbi Schochet is much better than a “stopped clock”.
    Paul’s opinion is the same as his because they’re both Pharisees. You could learn a little from him about a Pharisee’s perspective – and in turn understand Paul’s perspective.

    Please tell me what you think Ro 7:4 means if it DOES NOT mean that a Jew is dead to the Law (as even R Schochet asserts).

    2. You’re missing the point – regardless whether the Law is repealed or not, the POINT is that a Law can be given and then retracted; that the Law of Moses being retracted shouldn’t come as a surprise to you.
    Jesus, Himself, said that the Torah wasn’t perfect, because some of the Laws (at least one that He mentioned) were fitted to fallen men with hard hearts – why do you say it is “perfect” in utter and total neglect to Jesus’s Words? Now you have to figure out how His Words that “no jot or tittle can pass away from the Law” still applies, when He said in the same breath that what He is teaching is going to nullify the “certificate of divorce” statute.

  18. Dan1el,

    I have responded multiple times but you do not read things carefully…I guess. I do not find the ultra long posts that you present to actually refute the things in scripture that I bring up. I find them to be specious arguments that sidestep the actual passages that I present.

    I find you to be an “I am of Paul” disciple instead of a student of scripture. I find that you twist Paul’s words and give more import to his words than Messiah’s. I find that you use one passage of scripture to set at naught other passages. I find that you use far fetched interpretations and possibilities to not agree with what the prophets did write. I find that you cannot answer simple questions with yes or no.

    Shalom

  19. Dan1el,

    You still not answer my question, but sidestepped it. I am getting deja vu all over again.

    The question was how do you know that the law against sleeping with your sister is not repealed at this point in time?

    Messiah upheld the exact words of Torah with his pronouncements about marriage. You just are looking at it with only one eye open…the one that you worship Paul with.

    Shalom

  20. Bo,
    Who cares if the Law applies !? You missed the point of why I brought it up!!

    It is a serious (and unfounded) charge to say I am worshipping Paul. This is what people do when they can’t prove a point.

    Also, until you answer 1 Cor 9:20, you can BELIEVE I’m not going to waste my time with your question (which is itself based on your own sidestepping of a point that I made)!

  21. Bo,
    Jesus upheld the EXACT Words of Torah? What language are YOU reading it in?

    “He said to them, ‘Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.’

    Therefore, Jesus is upholding and putting forth the standard that is CONTRADICTORY to the Law of Moses.

    Question: are believers allowed to have “hardened hearts”, or isn’t that something we are warned AGAINST having [Hb 3]? If we are warned AGAINST having hardened hearts, and we have been told by Jesus that the REAL standard to shoot for is NOT the one the Law gave, but the way it was “from the beginning”?

    Will I do this “the way it was from the beginning” or “the way the Law says” ? The two stand in tension! You have no answer for this!

  22. *If we are warned to not have hardened hearts (this = possible damnation), then how are we going to live by the Law that talks about certificate of divorce?

    Moses gave it “BECAUSE OF THEIR HARDNESS OF HEARTS” – this means that the Law is NOT perfect, but there is a standard (a much higher standard) we can reach to (and He mentioned one) if we are TRULY RIGHTEOUS.

  23. The Law was, at times, fitted to mens’ hardness of heart – THUS, it was imperfect – PLEASE try to disprove that.

    Also, please answer to what 1 Cor 9:20 means.
    I can tell you what I think it means, according to the “ultra long post” you’re complaining about (it’s called an avalanche of information that disproves your false assertions, and you don’t like it because that’s exactly what it does), if you like.

  24. Dan1el,

    You brought up sleeping with ones sister as an example of the law changing. I just want to know how you know that it has not changed back to the original, now that we are new creatures. Please answer instead of sidestepping.

    Shalom

  25. Bo,
    I said that the COMMAND was given to sleep with your sister in Genesis 1; when Torah came, it was abolished (and long before that it became disgusting in the sight of most normal humans). The REASON I brought it up was because it showed that a Command of YHWH could be given at one moment, and revoked at another – thus, you shouldn’t be surprised at ANY revocation (for instance, the way Jesus down-played the Command about the certificate of divorce, saying it was fitted to sinful men, but if they were NOT sinful, they would’ve followed a much higher standard; and we cannot be sure how many times God actually did this in the Law!).

    Your question will NEVER be answered until you answer 1 Cor 9:20. Last time I asked, you said you wanted me to answer some question in a particular way, and I did my best to answer it HONESTLY – that it wasn’t 100% clear, so I gave two possible answers. That was the best answer I could give.

    You have yet to answer 1 Cor 9:20 and here we are many posts later, you’re still running in fear from it.

  26. Dan1el,

    I am hoping that you will answer the simple question that I asked. My guess is that you will not, because you do not have a scriptural answer. You might have a rabbi video or a long drawn out sidestep type post, but your previous history shows that you do not have real answers to simple questions.

    The question was how do you know that the law against sleeping with your sister is not repealed at this point in time?

    Shalom

  27. Bo,
    Who do you think you’re deceiving – are you deceiving yourself? Because you’re not deceiving me! You’ve made no important points, at all; you’re just running in fear from the dreaded 1 Cor 9:20. As I said before: give it up, you’re through.

  28. Bo,
    Last time I pressed you on the issue, you found a convenient way to get out of answering 1 Cor 9:20 – then others joined the discussion, and I was side-tracked.

    Since you tried to press me to answer Col 2:20-23 (which, even when that was answered, tended to the overthrow of your argument), I should do the same to you – what do you think? Answer 1 Cor 9:20, or what reason do I have to continue in dialogue? How about I use the same standard with you that you used with me?

  29. Dan1el,

    Do you need a multiple choice question so you can be upfront and honest? Here, try this:

    How do you know that the law against sleeping with your sister is not repealed at this point in time?

    a) Because some rabbi told me.
    b) Because our society would frown on it.
    c) Because it is specifically reiterated in the NT.
    d) Because Torah is in place throughout this heaven and earth continuance as specified by Messiah in Matthew 5.

    Shalom

  30. Dan1el,

    Are you running for political office…or just running from the truth?

    It is a simple question that your version of truth cannot answer. Do you know what the definition of “is” is? Bill Clinton did…anything he wanted it to mean to keep form answering a direct question with a direct answer. What about you:

    How do you know that the law against sleeping with your sister is not repealed at this point in time?

    Shalom

  31. CORRECTION:
    #322 ““I have offended nothing against the Law or the Temple” – yes, he had not done something to offend them (per his pre-meditated purpose)”

    –something should be “NOTHING”

  32. How I hate those simple questions.
    The answers always makes me squirm.
    O I wish I had a way
    To make my stance on air look firm.

  33. Dan1el,

    Is the above what Dan1el does or is it what Bo does? My guess is that Dan1le can answer this question directly.

    Shalom

  34. Bo,
    Now I want some answers:
    1. Did Jesus or did Jesus NOT downplay the Torah Command about giving a certificate of divorce – did He not say that the correct standard was NOT the Torah, but ‘as it was from the beginning’? Saying that sinful men needed the Torah’s concession?

    2. 1 Cor 9:20

    3. What does Romans 7:4 mean if it does NOT mean “a dead Jew is free from the Law” ?

  35. Dan1el,

    Here is the way our last discussion on Messiah’s statements about marriage started:

    Dan1el wrote:
    “I believe that remarriage is not adultery — I believe He says that to marry a woman who was unlawfully divorced (for any reason other than marital infidelity — adultery) is both committing adultery, and causing her and the one she marries to commit adultery.”

    I wrote:
    “It does not say marital infidelity. It says fornication, which considering the context, means unfaithfulness during the betrothal period. If the infidelity happens after the two are one flesh, the only option for the man is to have her stoned along with the man that was found with her. There is no option for divorce in the case of adultery. This teaching is upheld in Law and Prophets and the NT. I am not sure why you take issue with this as you do not accept Matthew and the other synoptics as scripture.

    I will post a brief discussion about the intricacies of remarriage in a few minutes for your reading enjoyment.

    Shalom”

    Shalom

  36. Bo,
    Until you can answer the above questions, you’re not entitled to ask questions. You’re through.

    oh, and

    4. How is your position that “good boys obey the Torah once they’re saved” ANY DIFFERENT than the FOOLISH (Paul’s words; not mine) position Paul denounces in Gal 3:1-3?

  37. Bo,
    The concession Jesus was speaking of was in the Law of Moses – to make the question more specific (because you cannot give an honest answer, otherwise), did Jesus or did Jesus NOT say that a Law given at Sinai was NOT the standard to live by?

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