Are the fall high holy days just Jewish holy days, or do they still have relevance for all believers today? Don’t miss this fascinating show!
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Yeshua is coming back with the blast of the trumpet, and will call all of us to take stock. He calls us now to live in such a way that we will be unashamed at His coming; as Jewish people around the world turn to God in repentance, let us turn to God in repentance and faith, thanking God for the gift of salvation.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The biblical calendar still has relevance. It speaks of things that happened in the past, and ultimately points to things that will happen in the future. Every one of them has great relevance to us who are believers in Jesus, Yeshua: the One who fulfills what is written, including the calendar!
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Our Hands Are Stained With Blood by Dr. Brown: This shocking and painful book tells the tragic story of the “Church” and the Jewish people. It is a story every Christian must hear.
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60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices: Dr. Michael Brown answers sixty common questions about Jewish people and Jewish culture. He also addresses questions Christians have about their own relationship to the Old Testament Law.
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Stand with Israel [messages on mp3 CD] Dr. Michael Brown speaks on Israel
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Jewish Roots Online Class: This 10 lecture class will open your eyes to God’s eternal purposes for Israel; give you a deeper burden for the salvation of the Jewish people; open up the Jewish background to the NT and show the prophetic importance of the biblical calendar.
You do not need to celebrate a Jewish Holiday to remind yourself that you are a sinner and need to examine yourself of your sins.
#1) If the Holy Spirit lives in you He will convict you of your sins immediately, and will not wait to convict you only once per year.
#2) Whenever you receive Communion we are suppose to examine ourselves. Look into
1 Corinthians 11:28-32
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
I can understand why Jewish people celebrate Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but I don’t understand why some Christians do.
These our my thoughts.
Debbie Fraser,
The passage quoted above is about Passover, not about the practice of “communion” that was instituted by the Roman Catholic Church much later. The early disciples continued to keep the Moedim (Set apart times) of YHHW. This is attested to by NT scripture and the early writings of the “Church Fathers.”
Yom Kippur is like a national day of prayer and fasting, but instead of being proclaimed by and earthy president, it is proclaimed and commanded by the King of the universe for His kingdom. Rosh Hashannah is not in the fall. (The Jewish commandment of men calls Yom Teruah, Rosh Hashanna.) The real new year is in the spring by YHWH’s command. Yom Teruah is the beginning of the 7th Biblical month and is known as the day of trumpet blowing and/or shouting. It is also the only feast day that no man can know about in advance. It is at the last trumpet blast and with the shout of the archangel that Messiah will collect his bride…on the feast of trumpets…10 days before he pours out the wrath of YHWH on a nonrepentant world. (Should we not fast and pray for ourselves, our family, our nations, and our world on this true Holy day?)
The feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) is the wedding feast of Messiah and His bride. The Marriage supper of the Lamb will happen on those exact day. All of these feasts will be fulfilled on the exact days, just like the spring feasts were fulfilled by Y’shua on the exact days. These celebrations are truly shadows of things to come and remembrances of YHWH’s redeeming works for mankind. They are not Jewish feasts. They are YHWH’s feasts.
Shalom
Hi Bo, do you have MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger or something like that? I’d like to have a conversation with you. 🙂
Bo-
I disagree with you about your interpretation of
1Corinthians 11:28-32.
Debbie….if you disagree with his interpretation of that text, what are you going to do with 1 Corinthians 5:6, “Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.”
Did you even listen to the broadcast or do you already have theology all figured out? Is it not relevant to you that Jesus died ON PASSOVER (in fulfillment as the Lamb of God) and that Paul admonished the gentile Corinthians to keeep the Festival of Passover? Does it not matter that Messiah rose ON FIRST FRUITS (as the firstfruits of the glorified body from the dead), and the Holy Spirit was given ON SHAVU’OT (Pentecost)!?!? Does the fact that Jesus’ fulfillment of the Biblical calendar mean nothing to you? Keep in mind He only fulfilled the Spring Feasts….the Fall Feasts have not been fulfilled yet.
How can you be so stuck on your traditions and ignore the beauty of what God has done by giving us these pictures of Jesus? Pictures which are not completely fulfilled. What will Christians like you do in the Messianic age when Messiah reigns from Jerusalem?
Zechariah 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 17If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.18If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lordd will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Debbie Fraser,
I thought you would disagree with me.
Messiah was teaching the Disciples how the Passover celebration pictured him. The 3rd cup is the cup of redemption. He told them that every time they drank the cup after Passover dinner it was in remembrance of His redeeming sacrifice. The Afikomen is the middle piece of unleavened bread that is broken. He said that every time they ate it, it would be in remembrance of His body being broken for them. He said that He would not drink of the cup until he drank it new in the kingdom with them. The 4th cup is called the cup of the kingdom or the cup of rejoicing. He was not going to drink of it until the marriage supper of the Lamb. Now that will be a time of rejoicing.
He did not institute communion. He upheld the Passover celebration as representative of Him and His dealings with us. Every time we celebrate Passover we declare His death till He returns. Communion is modified pagan practice instituted by an apostate church.
This is also what Paul says in Colossians 2. “Shadows of things to come.” Check this out:
1 Corinthians 5
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
He told us gentiles to keep the feast of unleavened bread.
Shalom
David Roberts
I have no instant messenger or anything. My time will be quite limited for about a month or so. What is it that you would like to communicate about?
Shalom
Bo,
If I am understanding you correctly. Are you saying you never take part in Communion? and those who does is doing a pagan practice?
Perry Stone is a great, great teacher of the word of God. He did a good teaching on Communion once and how he witnessed many healing from people who partook in Communion.
This is the 1st time in my life I was ever told partaking in Communion is a pagan practice.
This is so weird.
I’m going to interject and throw my weight (for whatever it’s worth) behind Debbie: Christ Jesus did in fact institute communion and it was practiced by the Church from the very beginning (not instituted by the Roman Catholic Church). Further, the things Bo is throwing out about the seder meal and its practices are based on later Rabbinic writings done by Jews who abjectly denounced Jesus as Messiah, not reflective of what would have actually been the practice in Jesus’ day.
In short, Bo has it backwards: Christ instituted communion, and the later Seder traditions are what is pagan.
Debbie Fraser,
Here is a couple of short articles I just found. I do not endorse the sites or the groups represented. These are just a couple of things I found quickly.
http://www.yrm.org/passover-communion.htm
http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/Recommended-Reading/eucharist-emblem-of-paganism.html
Shalom
Tom,
I hope you weigh at least 168 or throwing your weight around won’t accomplish much.
Shalom
Tom,
http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/newsletter/2002_03/mystery
The four cups have been around a long time…at least Jews for Jesus thinks so.
Shalom
Tom,
http://bible.org/article/passover-time-jesus
http://the-jewish-passover.tripod.com/seder.html
Shalom
Tom,
To be sure there are pagan traditions in the Modern Jewish Passover Seder. Both Judaism and Christianity have adopted many pagan traditions. They are the ditches on both sides of the true path…which is total Biblical obedience.
I am wondering how the Corinthians got drunk if they were doing christian communion. A little swig of grape juice, of even wine, just won’t do that. Now if they were doing Passover with 4 cups of wine…they could get drunk if they poured them too full or drank them too fast.
Shalom
Tom,
Thank you for the confirmation. I do believe Jesus our Lord commanded us to partake in Communion.
Blessings Tom you are a gem.
Bo: 145, actually. But considerably heavier when I put on my thinking cap. 😉
As far as your references: let’s cut to the chase. Instead of giving secondary and tertiary sources, why don’t you show me the earliest documentation for the “four cups” of Passover (be it a portion of the Mishnah or whatever) and make a case from that? Or at least prove to me that I should listen to the sources you’ve cited – what makes them authoritative?
In point of fact, I find nothing prior to about 1000 years after Christ that would give you much support at all. If you can do better, I’m willing to be proven wrong, but at least give me something better than “well, this article said so!”
Now, turning to Holy Communion:
First, the Didache (look it up) gives instructions concerning Communion (in Greek called the “Eucharist”) in parts 9 and 10. You can read it for yourself here: http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html
Since the Didache was a document of the new Church it shows categorically that Holy Communion was practiced since the very beginning, not instituted later as some “pagan” addition.
Second, in your argument against the Corinthians passage being a reference to Holy Communion, your premise is flawed in that you are making the assumption that Holy Communion is, by definition “a little swig of grape juice, of even wine” and that there is no possible way to get drunk from it. This is not true, so your argument is invalid.
Further, even if your assumption was true (again, it’s not), the potential to get drunk from wine does not necessitate a Passover interpretation. One could get drunk on wine during any occasion where wine is served and so to insist that we are talking about Passover based on people having been chided for being tipsy simply does not follow.
That all said, I find your arguments so far to be too full of anachronism (both in reading later Jewish practices of Passover backwards, and in reading modern Christian Communion practices backwards) to be persuasive.
Debbie,
I believe as you do, and the Church going back to the earliest times does as well. 🙂
Thanks! 🙂 Blessings to you as well!
Bo,
By the way, I should make clear that I did in fact read the 3 sources you addressed to me. But I can find sources with the same level of scholarship to support just about anything I want – I need something a little more, ah, “solid”.
Tom,
In the following quote, the author concludeds that the “Eucharist” that the Didache speaks of is a community meal not associated with the death of Messiah. Also note the idea that the writer/s considered themselves part of Israel.
‘The prayer of thanksgiving (eucharist) for the community meal in chapters 9 and 10 are also significant. That is because they do not contain any reference to the death of Jesus. Accustomed as we are to the memorial supper of the Christ cult and the stories of the last supper in the synoptic gospels, it has been very difficult to imagine early Christians taking meals together for any reason other than to celebrate the death of Jesus according to the Christ myth. But here in the Didache a very formalistic set of prayers is assigned to the cup and the breaking of bread without the slightest association with the death and resurrection of Jesus. The prayers of thanksgiving are for the food and drink God created for all people and the special, “spiritual” food and drink that Christians have because of Jesus. Drinking the cup symbolizes the knowledge these people have that they and Jesus are the “Holy Vine of David,” which means that they “belong to Israel.” Eating the bread symbolizes the knowledge these people have of the life and immortality they enjoy by belonging to the kingdom of God made known to them by Jesus, God’s child. And it is serious business. No one is allowed to “eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptised in the Lord’s name” (Did. 9:5).’
Burton Mack (Who Wrote the New Testament?, pp.240-241):
It seems that the Didache was written about the turn of the 1 century. Quite late to not have the perspective of the “body and blood” of Y’shua associated with a supposed “communion” ceremony. It think that you will find the idea of what Christianity calls communion to come along much later.
If Paul was not speaking of a remembrance of Messiah’ death during a Passover celebration, it is out of harmony with other statements he makes in 1 Corinthians. He references The Passover lamb and the feast of unleavened bread in chapter 5 and Pentecost in chapter 16. Also firstfruits, which falls on the first day of the week during unleavened bread, in chapter 15. That Christianity interprets chapter 11 as communion is only a sign of the brain washing effect of being told that it is so for eons.
When Paul says that it is not appropriate, and even a heresy, to eat the Lord’s Supper/Passover meal as a congregation, but should be done at home, is indicative of the father led Passover meal also. The Passover is the time to remember Y’shua’s death till he comes. Eating some ritual meal that closely resembles ancient pagan “communion” and ingesting their deity, every Sunday or sporadically is not what Paul or Messiah was talking about.
1 Corinthians 11
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.
Shalom
Also note the idea that the writer/s of the didache considered themselves part of Israel.
Tom,
A bit more on topic…have you noticed the prophecies of the Messianic kingdom making mention that we are to keep Passover, Tabernacles, Sabbath, New moons, and even temple sacrifices? You might want to get up to speed on these things in the here and now so that you can be great in the kingdom them.
Matthew 5
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Shslom
Bo,
“…being found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law…”
How in the world do these puzzle pieces fit!? LOL! Scripture cannot invalidate itself…
Heaven and earth will definitely pass away one day; does that mean the Law will pass away, then?
We are already in Christ, in eternity; is it possible that we are already beyond the day when Heaven & Earth pass away, since we’re in Christ — Who, Himself, is the Resurrection (which is a future event)?
Therefore, whatever flesh is showing (what ever isn’t covered in Christ, the armor of Light) will be condemned by the Law; but, upon what ever part of us is “in Him”, the Law is “passing away”, and has no power to condemn (since that was its ministry): to the degree that we are “decreasing” and Christ is “increasing” (as “He must”), this is the degree to which we are saved from the curse of the Law.
Dan1el,
Quite the logic you’ve got going there. Too bad nothing like it exists in the Bible. I guess you’ll have to try again with something a little more substantial.
Well now Messiah was in eternity all along then, by your logic. Why did He obey every thing contained in the law? Abraham lived before Mt. Sinai, and he kept the law too.
Maybe those that are really seated in heavenly places with Messiah keep the law. Maybe that is how we know that we are actually, and not fictitiously, participating in His righteousness. Maybe those that cannot be subject to the law are in the flesh. For the law is spiritual and those that are in the flesh just can’t bring themselves to agree with it or do it.
Romans 8
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual…
Maybe those that do righteousness are the ones that are righteous. Maybe those that continue to break the law, which John call’s sin, are not really YHWH’s children.
1 John 3
4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Maybe your logic is not logic at all. Maybe your presuppositions are false. Maybe we should stay on topic.
Shalom
Bo,
A little info on Burton Mack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burton_L._Mack
Do you really want to appeal to him? Consistently siding with this guy will leave you with no Bible – he thinks the Gospels are myth. Are you willing to back him when he’s no longer making arguments salient to your position, but tearing down our very foundational documents?
As for the content of his argument, the Didache is a manual of orthopraxy for the Church, not doctrine, as such. Mack is trying to interpret it is as if it was “Christian Dogmatics 101” instead of what it obviously is: simple instructions for order in the Church. Therefore he is asking the wrong questions and giving the wrong answers.
You fall into the same assumption as Mack, it would seem. But I’m curious, what do you mean by “you will find the idea of what Christianity calls communion to come along much later”? Would you care to elaborate?
How do several passing references to feast times necessitate a “Passover” interpretation of chapter 11 to maintain harmony? Paul talks about marriage in chapter 7 – must we interpret this as a feast reference too? We hear of tongues in chapter 14 – does this require a feast-interpretation as well? Look, Paul is at liberty in this letter to speak about different topics, not all of them feasts.
Let’s look at the text, then.
#1
Paul is NOT saying that it is inappropriate (much less a heresy) to eat the supper as a congregation. He is saying that when they come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper that they are eating on account of their behavior. It’s the same as saying, “this isn’t a party – look at you all, sitting around on barstools drooling on yourselves!”.
#2
Paul goes on to delineate the manner in which the Supper should be eaten – the manner in which the Corinthians are not observing at all, but rather making abuse of it and suffering the consequences.
Tom,
Don’t worry about me being a follower of Mack, but I do believe that even donkeys can be used to enlighten a wayward prophet now and then. There is no Biblical evidence that the apostles or early believers kept a communion service. There is testimony that Paul called the Corinthians to keep the feast of unleavened bread. There is early church testimony that John and the eastern churches kept Passover and that the Roman church early went away from apostolic practices and adopted pagan ideas. Remember Polycrates?
Shalom
Tom,
Your point #1 above, though possible, does not strike me as consistent with Paul’s style. Can you point out other passages that would show Paul or anyone using this approach? Are you sure that you are not reading your own bias into the passage?…maybe your own personality?
Shalom
Tony,
Lord Jesus fulfilled it all. He completed all the Jewish Holidays. It is not the Holidays that you should magnify. It is Jesus.
They were a shadow of the things to come.
The interpretation of 1Corinthians 5:6 is talking about the yeast as being sin. The yeast represents sin. Get rid of the sin among you. Jesus died for our sins. He is the completed lamb sacrifice.
Great thing to keep in mind. WE are one IN Christ now. Jesus is the head, we are His body. Remove the sin(yeast) among you.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Just to make note. When I posted 1Corinthians 11:28-32 in post #1. The point of my message was not to talk focus on Communion, but to focus and examine ourselves of our wrong doings, our sins, the yeast.
But I guess I did learn something from all this. I now am convinced that there is definitely people being deceived in the body of Christ by their interpretation of scripture.
How are we going to win people over to the Lord when we have all these different beliefs in the body of Christ.
Confusion is not from the Lord.
Debbie Fraser,
The feasts ARE still a shadow of things to come. The still represent things that will happen concerning our marriage to Messiah. The verse says “are” not “were.”
Colossians 2
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; and the body of Christ.
In 1 Corinthians Paul commands them to keep the feast, not only without the old leaven, but also without malice and wickedness. The Greek word of “malice” in this verse means: wickedness that is not afraid to break laws. Which is what at least one Corinthian was doing in that he had married his father’s wife…which is prohibited in Leviticus. So he was breaking YHWH’s law.
1 Corinthians 5
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
So our keeping of the feasts is supposed to represent what is true in the spirit. Our ignoring YHWH’s set apart times is not taught in the NT. Even the Thessalonians knew about the appointed times of YHWH. Paul told them that Messiah would return for them on the feast of trumpets.
1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
chapter 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
If these people were not ignorant of YHWH’s appointed times, we should not be either. Messiah is returning for His bride on YHWH’s feast that shadows it. His wrath will be poured out on the day that shadows that. The wedding feast of the Lamb will happen on the feast of tabernacles.
What would we say of a bride that didn’t rejoice, and even ignored, the dates of the anniversary of the significant events in her relationship to her supposed beloved?
So, no Debbie, Messiah has not fulfilled all the feasts…yet. When the Bride Groom returns, will we be ready or will we still be sleeping and ignorant.
Shalom
Debbie Fraser,
Do you have a mirror? If not, the perfect law of YHWH will suffice.
Shalom
Actually, that is precisely what Scripture says:
1. The Old Covenant Law is “vanishing away” — in the process of it.
2. “but if you live for the flesh, you must die” — the Law condemns all sin, and all who live for the flesh, live according to its “Law/principle” of sin: sin is inescapable, and the Law will condemn it; but, for those who bear the fruit of the Spirit (walking in the Spirit), there is no Law against that. Fruit of the Spirit is not something you can produce; it is by abiding in HIM.
3. “Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit” — we must follow the Lord into eternal life; not Laws written on a page; the Scriptures SPEAK OF Christ, but we still have to GO TO HIM of Whom they are merely SPEAKING and POINTING us to. I can read the sign all day long that tells me:
“XYZ TOWN IS 50 MILES OVER THAT WAY”
…but, if I never actually go TO that town, I have a problem on my hands. We have to walk in the Spirit — doing the Spirit’s Laws; not the page’s. The Spirit’s Laws are much more difficult than plopping yourself on a chair for a feast.
Dan1el,
The Spirit wrote those pages. Read em and weep…or better yet, repent. He does not contradict Himself. Try reading 1 John for what the words mean. Walking in the Spirit causes us to keep the law. If we are not keeping it, we are not walking in the Spirit.
Romans 8
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So you see that the flesh disagrees and cannot keep YHWH’s law. The Spirit causes us to keep it. The carnal mind fights against YHWH and cannot subject itself to His law.
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins (Transgressions of the law); and in him is no sin (Transgression of the law).
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not (Does not transgress the law): whosoever sinneth (Continues to transgress the law) hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin (Continues to transgresses the law) is of the devil; for the devil sinneth (Transgressed the law) from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (Continue to transgress the law); for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin (Continue to transgress the law), because he is born of God.
The spirit that leads us to transgress the law is the spirit of antimessiah. It is a lawless spirit that comes from the devil that transgressed the law from the beginning.
2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
We are being deceived by a false spirit and are participating in the mystery of lawlessness if we continue to break the law. We need to stop refusing to love the truth and be saved. We are part of the rebellion if we cannot subject our minds to YHWH’s law. Deception is deceitful. The only way to know if you are deceived is to compare your doctrines and actions to the Law of YHWH. If you line up, you are not deceived. If not you are deceived.
James 1
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror.
24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
25 But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.
Romans 2
13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin (Transgression of the law), live any longer therein (In transgressing the law, that is)?
15 What then? shall we sin (Transgress the law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
YHWH’s law is perfect. Only the doers of it are righteous. The hearers only are not. They are on their way to the great transgression.
Psalm 19
7 ¶ The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Shalom
Bo,
I know there is still the marriage supper of the bride and groom to look forward too. Hence, Jesus and His church.
Does this mean I am engaged? 🙂
Daniel,
I can relate to your posts. Let us keep marching towards Jesus and allow His Spirit to conform our hearts and mind. The Holy Spirit will always lead us towards Jesus.
Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life.
Debbie Fraser,
You are not engaged…you are betrothed, it happened on Pentecost. The bride price was paid on Passover. You can be divorced during the betrothal period if the Bridegroom finds uncleanness in you. After the consummation of the marriage during the feast of Tabenacles, you cannot be put away.
Shalom
Bo,
If you’re led by the SPIRIT, you will do God’s Laws; if you are under the written Law, you will break it — “for sin will not master over you, because you are not under the Law…”; however, I know that you are not going to listen.
“The Old Covenant is fading away”
The Old Covenant has a “ministry of condemnation”
“I must become less and less; He must become more”
“I die daily”
Inasmuch as you are “fading away”/dying daily, the Law’s ministry of condemnation to you is also “fading away” — there is no Law against bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians).
I’ve already responded to the “doers of the Word” argument — the Word is “ingraft” (James)/reigning in our hearts (Ephesians); the Word is Jesus (Revelation 19), and the “only Lawgiver” (James) — the Law it was telling us to obey was JESUS: we are to serve after the newness of the Spirit, and not after the oldness of the Letter.
Ofcourse, you won’t (because you can’t) address those Scriptures.
“not after the OLDness of the letter, but the NEWness of the Spirit” obviously was talking about Jeremiah 31 — “…I will make a NEW covenant with them; not like the [OLD]covenant I made with their fathers…”
Your words are card houses, with no support.
You won’t even heed the plain Scripture
“though I myself am not under the Law”:
Scripture cannot contradict itself; the way you are reading it, it is contradicting itself, since you are telling people to be under the Law — which was contrary to Apostle Paul’s teachings.
Yet, you desire to boast in others’ flesh (at least, this is Scripture’s diagnosis — Galatians 6:13), when you try to put them under the Law. “All such boasting is evil”, and “where selfish ambition” is, there is every evil work — which flows seamlessly with the fact that those who are under the Law CANNOT stop sinning, since “the Law is the power of sin”.
People couldn’t stop sinning until Jesus killed their sinful nature on the Cross, and gave them a new nature, so that they could live as unto God.
However, once again, I know you will not listen; so, I think this will be my last post on this thread about this. The Scripture has been shown to you, and you refuse it: good luck.
Dan1el,
Jeremiah 31 gives no indication of a new law or different commandments. It is referring to where the laws would be written. Not on stone this time, but on our hearts. Written on our hearts means that we love to do YHWH’s law. If you do not love it, it is not written on your heart and you are not in the new covenant and you will continue to transgress the law just like John says. There is no law against the fruit of the Spirit. That includes YHWH’s law. The law is the revelation of what love is. We do not have the fruit of the Spirit if we do not keep YHWH’s commandments.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
If we do not keep the commandments we do not love YHWH, His children, or His law. It proves that we are not in the new covenant.
If you fight against the law, you are fighting YHWH just like Paul says the carnal mind will do. And of course, I have answered your questions and failed logic many times and you do not have ears to hear.
Shalom
Bo,
“I myself am not under the Law” is as plain as day: that’s all that needs to be said.
Dear Dr. Brown,
The same group who produced the “we con the world” (song about the Flotilla incident) came out with a new hit called “Somebody to hate”..
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsnU1RkRXeg
Would love to get your feedback,
Blessings!
My dear brothers and sisters..Continue in the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ. For in him we shall be exalted. The feast is not what is important. It all about our King Jesus,/Yeshua. For no commandment keeping shall redeem us.. Only him.
Dan1el,
You wrote:
The problem for you is that Paul wrote:
And John wrote:
And Peter wrote:
And Y’shua said:
Shalom
Bo,
For the record:
“I myself am not under the Law” is Paul speaking, in 1 Cor 9:20.
Dan1el,
He is talking about how he relates the gospel. About how he preaches. That is the surrounding context. Those under the law are those that are breaking it. Note the contrast between the Jew and those under the law. By your definition these would be the same. He didn’t fake feeble-mindedness for the weak. He spoke so that they could understand. He didn’t act wicked with the wicked, but he spoke a message that they could relate to and would convict their hearts.
1 Corinthians 9
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which
should live of the gospel.
16 For though I
I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the
is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I
I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are wicked, as wicked, (being not wicked to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the
that I might be partaker thereof with you.
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have
I myself should be a castaway.
He is very careful to control his actions so that he will not be a castaway. He could not and did not purposefully break the law of YHWH.
Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Shalom
Bo,
I’m pretty sure you don’t really believe the misrepresentation of Scripture you just put up on the site. It looks like a desperate attempt to change Scripture to mean what you want it to mean — especially since he says it time and time again, throughout Scripture — instead of changing your own life in accordance with what the obvious meaning of Scripture is (the same thing other sinners do who don’t want to change).
However, to anyone with a level mind, your desperate attempts to twist the obvious meaning of Scripture will be obvious.
“you are not under Law” (Romans 6:14)
“I myself am not under Law” (1 Cor 9:20)
“But now we have been RELEASED FROM THE LAW, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:4)
“For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.” (Galatians 2:19)
…and there are SCORES more, that (when read plainly) mean:
NEW COVENANT BELIEVERS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW
— plain, and simple.
Be careful, Bo — if you confuse believers with your [false] doctrines, you will be held responsible.
My only question for you is, “Why would you continually resist the Truth, the way you do? What is the pay-off?”
I think the Lord made it clear that man wasn’t made for the law when he said that the Sabbath was made for man, not the other way around. (Mark 2:27)
If Jesus is really going to be our Lord we should at least come to that understanding.
Dan1el,
Here’s my payoff for doing and teaching others to obey YHWH’s Torah: (Not that I do it for that reason…I love YHWH’s Torah because I am a participator in the real New Covenant that writes YWHH’s law upon the heart, not the imaginary new covenant that rejects YHWH’s law.
Matthew 5
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
But of course the last time I heard, you do not believe Matthew is scripture. Maybe that is why you think that I am twisting it…you do not accept all of it and have twisted view to begin with.
Matthew 4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
“Every word” means every word. Twist all you like. Redefine all you like. It means what it means and it is scripture.
Shalom
Ray,
I guess we could say that the whole of scripture was made for man and not man for the scripture. This does mean that man should not obey it or that he should ignore it? It means that it is there for our benefit…but it can only benefit us if we put it into practice. The same goes for the Sabbath and Feasts of YHWH. We only deceive ourselves if we read it or hear it and do not put it into practice. We only put into practice what is written on our hearts. Our problem is that we refuse to let YHWH write some things on our hearts because of our prejudice, peer pressure and false doctrine.
Shalom
I agree with Bo!
Dan1el,
It sounds like you practice lawlessness. For the record that’s not a good thing.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the [lawless one] is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Pe 2:8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented [his] righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing [their] lawless deeds)–
Shalom
Ray,
It is because Y’shua IS my Master that I keep the Torah that HE gave to Moshe.
Shalom