If someone doesn’t believe in once saved, always saved, how can they be sure of their salvation? Did the Church Fathers devise the doctrine of the Trinity? And are there partisan politics on the Line of Fire? Join Dr. Brown for a frank discussion of these questions and more!
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: There’s a lot of speculation about aliens, alien invasions, UFOs, and life on other planets. What we do know, is that the Word of God is everlastingly true, a lamp to our feet and a light unto our path. Let’s put our faith and trust in what we know, and what is written.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As we come to the end of another Q & A show, I’m reminded once again of what a Rock our God is, and how stable our walk with Him can be. As we put our trust in Him, and walk in the light that we have in daily obedience, our feet will never, ever stumble!
Separation of Church and State with Joseph Infranco [MP3 series], and It’s Time to Rock the Boat with Michael L. Brown [MP3 series] !
Stand With Israel [mp3 Series]
INCLUDES: 1.) Israel Shall Be Saved 2.) Intercession, Israel, & Miracles 3.) A Baptism of Tears for Israel 4.) Israel and the Last Days 5.) The Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism 6.) Are the Rabbis Right? (Brown vs. Singer Debate) 7.) Who is Jesus? Part 1 8.) Who is Jesus? Part 2
From the Lions of Tsavo to the Lion of Judah Online Article by Victor Sharpe:
This is the story of a remarkable Christian Zionist who did so much for the cause of Zion in the early years of the 20th century.
John Henry Patterson was the product of an Anglo-Irish family. He was born on November 10, 1867 in Ireland to a Protestant family and died in 1947 – one year before the rebirth of the Jewish State of Israel. Following the family’s military tradition, he joined the British army and served with the 16th Lancers in Lucknow, India. He was sent in 1898 to East Africa where he was engaged in building a railway bridge at Tsavo. The African workers were being terrorized by man eating lions and Patterson was successful in restoring order and killing the marauding lions. He later wrote a book about his exploits titled, The Man-Eaters of Tsavo. […]
A Queer Thing Happened to America by Dr. Brown: A Queer Thing Happened to America chronicles the amazing transformation of America over the last forty years, literally, from Stonewall Inn to the White House, and addresses the question head-on: Is there really a gay agenda, or is it a fiction of the religious right? Written in a lively and compelling style, but backed with massive research and extensive interaction with the GLBT community, this forthright and yet compassionate book looks at the extraordinary impact gay activism has had on American society.
Get Involved! Find out how you can make a difference in YOUR community!
_ The End of The American Gospel Enterprise by Dr. Brown: This book is for: Everyone hungry for more of God… Everyone jealous for the true glory of God… Everyone who knows that something great is missing from the American Church.
The Gospel of Martyrdom vs. the Gospel of Success VOR Article by Dr. Brown
Stephen stood before the Sanhedrin. The appointed Jewish leadership confronted this anointed Jewish believer. They glared; he glowed. They were enraged; he was enraptured. Their faces were contorted with anger; his was like the countenance of an angel. “Men and brothers,” he said […]
I only was able to hear the first 17 minutes of the program. It’s all I can get.
I myself used to be an alien. (Eph 2:12)
I once was very far off. (Eph 2:13)
But now I am made nigh by the blood of Christ.
I don’t think of myself as being a believer in “Once Saved, Always Saved”, though I was once saved, and have in my past, always (yes, always) been saved.
This is not to say that I have always lived in a condition of salvation. No, I had not always found myself in that wholesome condition. But the grace of God was there for me. The holy Spirit of God was there to get ahold of me again and bring me nigh again. Yes, I had too many times, lived as an alien on this earth.
So how can I know that I will always be saved? I don’t know it. I don’t feel I have the need to know. I only need to know my salvation is secure in God.
It’s time to go to the dictionary.
Salvation can be speaking of a saving.
I can know of a saving, of my past, but that doesn’t necessarily give me the knowledge that my salvation is secure in God.
Salvation can also be speaking of a being saved.
I know that as I continue in reading the Word, praying, worshipping God, and walking as I ought to walk, that I am being saved, but that doesn’t necessarily give me the knowledge that my salvation is secure in God.
Salvation can also be speaking of a person or thing that is a means, cause, or source of preservation and rescue.
Now, we’re getting nigh unto a knowledge that my salvation is secure in God.
Can you guess who that salvation is that I am presently refering to? I think most of you know who it is. It is he who was in the Word before the world was. His name is Jesus, the Son of God.
He is secure in God. Therefore I have hope. Therefore I may trust. Therefore I have faith because that was given to me by the Word of truth.
Was the doctrine of the Trinity devised?
Some say that it was devised by men. Others say No, it has always been the truth that is in God.
But what is God’s perspective on the Trinity?
When I read the dream / vision called The Sons Of Thunder, by James Ryle (search it out) I couldn’t help but notice that it spoke of a monument that stood for the Lord, but it was also something that men had built.
There were some in the vision that were enamored
by their doctrine who were standing elbow to elbow as if to protect the monument which stood for the Lord.
I wonder what their doctrine was.
It could relate to several things. There may be two or more groups of those who stand elbow to elbow having some kind of doctrine in common, who stand before something that was set up to keep alive the memory of a person or event, a structure that survived from a former period that serves as a memorial, a work, production, etc. of enduring value or significance, something that might mark a boundary. (see monument in a dictionary)
Such things are often founded upon something. They might not always be the exact representation of the thing they were built to represent.
In the beginning was the Word. Jesus has been in the Word a lot longer than I have been.
I used to be an alien.
I believe the holy Spirit was in the same Word with Jesus also, before the world was made. I believe that Word was God.
I believe the holy Spirit is the Word that Jesus was in.
I believe there are different ways to read the first few verses of John’s gospel and all of them are good, as long as they are right with the Word.
Halo dr. Brown,
What are your thoughts on the following comments?
The “Babylonian Talmud” – the book of rabbis’ interpretation of the scriptures 1,000 years before Christ, there was only one time in history that reflects where we are right now. There was only one time in history, according to these writings, where men were given in marriage to men, and women given in marriage to women.
Want to venture a guess as to when? No, it wasn’t in Sodom and Gomorrah, although that was my guess. Homosexuality was rampant there, of course, but according to the Talmud, not homosexual “marriage.” What about ancient Greece? Rome? No. Babylon? No again. The one time in history when homosexual “marriage” was practiced was … during the days of Noah. And according to Jeffrey Satinover, that’s what the “Babylonian Talmud” attributes as the final straw that led to the Flood.
Rabbi Aryeh Spero verified this to be true.
Rabbi Spero spoke of God’s compassion before the Flood, in hopes people would repent and turn back to His ways. He showed patience for hundreds of years.
But, he said, the Talmud’s writings reveal that “before the Flood people started to write marriage contracts between men, in other words, homosexual ‘marriage,’ which is more than homosexual activity – it’s giving an official state stamp of approval, a sanctification … of homosexual partnership.”
In fact, he said, “the writings indicated that it wasn’t even so much the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back,’ but that the sin in and of itself is so contrary to why God created the world, so contrary to the order of God’s nature, that God said then and there ‘I have to start all over … to annihilate the world and start from the beginning. …'”
Rabbi Spero went on to say, “Even in ancient Greece they did not write marriage contracts between men. There was homosexuality, and it was wrong, but there was not an official ‘blessed’ policy. … Marriage is ‘sanctification’ (not simply a partnership).” He said to confer the title of sanctification and holiness upon this behavior is “probably one of the greatest sins of all that one does against God’s plan for this world.”
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. – Mathew 24:37
Halo again Dr. Brown
I believe the following to be true, meaning that Jesus DID speak to the sin of homosexuality, which goes against the grain of the popular and often stated, “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality”.
“Jesus referring to male homosexual prostitutes & other sexual sins. Revelation 22:12-15
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
The dogs are impure and malicious people or someone with a low character. The first time blatantly impure sinners were called dogs is in Deut. 23: verse 18. This is where male homosexual prostitutes were in view.
MaxVeritas…who posted this:
“As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. – Mathew 24:37”
Your post #2 confirms what the Lord has given me a while ago. I posted in here at the end of June this….check it out:
June 29th, 2011 @ 4:52 pm
37 “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 “For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, MARRYING AND GIVEN IN MARRIAGE, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 “and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
In verse 38 it is very interesting on how they mention Jesus will be coming back in a time when people will be getting married. There is a rapid movement of people being married now. An abnormal type of marriage, if you know what I mean. Before you know it every state will be legalizing gay marriages.”
Hmmm. Interesting indeed.
The scripture in Matthew 24:37-39 just shows and proves the fact that the homosexual movement is going to increase in society and will not decrease no matter how hard the body of Christ tries to warn them it is a sinful lifestyle.
“Believers & The Law of Moses”
Dr. Michael Brown makes it clear @ mins 1:27:56-1:31:22 that Believers are not under the Law of Moses.
Thanks Dr. Michael L. Brown
Don’t you just love confirmation? 🙂
Personally, I don’t need it (on this subject, at least — since I’ve asked GOD for understanding… maybe I should do that on other subjects… lol); I just worry for those who listen to empty words of deceived individuals… that is why I pointed it out…
Definitely a spirit of deception, no doubt.
The Lord shows all truth. I’m glad Daniel to hear that you heard the truth from God before man. If God is for you, who can be against you, right?
amen, if God lets you, please pray for me
ok, I’ll lift you up in prayer. Without vision there is no hope.
Daniel, we are all seeing how God is raising you up. Keep seeking to build his kingdom and nothing of your own. His Spirit will keep you in Christ Jesus.
The Lord reminded me of how time is different in heaven, how a day here on earth can seem like a thousand years, but in heaven, a thousand years on this earth are like a day.
What we may think takes so long, God may see as happening very quickly. Let’s be patient.
When/If, you get the chance and you happen across these questions, I’d like to ask some. Since this is “Dr. Brown Answers Your Questions” forum I chose this one to ask.
What does it mean to, “Go on to perfection?”
Why do Christians neglect the doctrine of going on and doing “good works?”
Is God really happy with us doing nothing “Once we ARE saved?”
Because I’m thinking that Jesus saved us “for” good works. What is the problem with doing good works that have absolutely nothing to do with our Salvation?!
This is sorely neglected in the Church today.
What are we clothed with when the Lord returns if not our good works done in His Name? (And He knows the difference between doing it for ourselves)
We may be standing there naked, but, we will save our soul. Isn’t that correct?
So then our garment is not only His Righteousness, but the good works done in His Name.
Is that not borne out by Scripture?
This is how I read it:
Works of the Law don’t and can’t save us, but works in His Name “clothe” us.
I should say anyone can jump in who cares to.
What you’re wondering about is known as the docrine of sanctification: the idea that now that we are saved, we will walk in the good works that God has prepared beforehand for us to walk in.
I’d suggest the following link, which I’ve found helpful on the subject:
Tom and Sheila,
I like it!
I’m liking the title already!
We’re up and running with the Website. Working out the particulars yet and some re-writes.
Appreciate it and will check it out right away!
Hush Bo–I don’t think it’s the doctrine you have in mind…
Unless you particularly spied out the “saved ‘for’ good works” part, then, it’s not the works of the law.
From Tom’s link:
“That is what my Antinomians, too, are doing today, who are preaching beautifully and (as I cannot but think) with real sincerity about Christ’s grace, about the forgiveness of sin and whatever else can be said about the doctrine of redemption. But they flee s if t were the very devil the consequence that they should tell the people about the third article, of sanctification, that is, of new life in Christ. They think one should not frighten or trouble the people, but rather always preach comfortingly about grace and the forgiveness of sins in Christ, and under no circumstance use these or similar words, “Listen! You want to be a Christian and at the same time remain an adulterer, a whoremonger, a drunken swine, arrogant, covetous, a usurer, envious, vindictive, malicious, etc.!” Instead they say, “Listen! Though you are an adultery, a wordmonger, a miser, or other kind of sinner, if you but believe, you are saved, and you need not fear the law. Christ has fulfilled it all! . . . They may be fine Easter preachers, but they are very poor Pentecost preachers, for they do not preach… “about the sanctification by the Holy Spirit,” but solely about the redemption of Jesus Christ, although Christ (whom they extol so highly, and rightly so) is Christ, that is, He has purchased redemption from sin and death so that the Holy Spirit might transform us out of the old Adam into new men . . . Christ did not earn only gratia, grace, for us, but also donum, “the gift of the Holy Spirit,” so that we might have not only forgiveness of, but also cessation of, sin. Now he who does not abstain fro sin, but persists in his evil life, must have a different Christ, that of the Antinomians; the real Christ is not there, even if all the angels would cry, “Christ! Christ!” He must be damned with this, his new Christ (On the Council and the Church, Luther’s Works, 41:113-114).
Oh but it is!
2 Timothy 2
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I simply take Paul’s advice on where to find out about good works and righteous living.
That is the “fruit of the Spirit!” not the works of the law.
Should we return to Sinai and start again? But, for certain I did not mean to stir that debate on this page–please. If you take your ideas back to the other thread, I’m sure some will join you. I am so very busy, Bo, right now fine tuning other committments though.
BTW, I do still plan on getting back to my train of thought on the other page – it seems like it’s been one thing after another recently!
I love the NIV and the Darby translation of this verse (respectively):
In my mind this clearly removes the idea that we are born from above as “perfect” as is taught in many places. There is a lot of confusion about Soteriology in general Christendom – and I hear more and more teachers lumping in “Lordship” (which really belongs to the area of Sanctification, touching our personal walk with Christ) with the simple idea of New Birth.
New Birth is a FREE GIFT, it is received as a FREE GIFT – putting conditions on receiving it is in my opinion is front loading the gift which does not make it a gift at all.
I have brought this out several times on this website that there is no mention of Repentance in John’s Gospel. The woman of Sychar was NOT asked to DRINK THIS WATER AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, but rather –
Gospel of John is all the more significant, not only because he was the “beloved” disciple who leaned on the Messiah’s bosom during the Last Supper, but more importantly, because John’s writing is explicitly a Gospel message – “But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” It would be very poor effort on John’s part if he missed out on the chief ingredient in the salvation message – that of repentance!
I know that is is one area that I respectfully disagree with Dr. Brown, but I appreciate his heart, I know where he is coming from – he is very zealous for seeing God’s Children live in Holiness and reverential fear of the Lord. Like I said, I admire him a lot and pray for him daily. As for me I believe that there is nothing wrong with Once Saved Always Saved position – I hold on to it with my life because that is what I find in the Scripture.
Those who do not believe on Once Saved Always Saved always have to rely on experience (subjective) rather than the Word of God (objective) to say that they are saved. This has driven many people away from looking at Jesus, to looking at themselves each time they commit a sin – wondering – am I saved – am I saved – and questioning every goodness of God.
It is nothing short of cruel for a child of God to have to work out if they are a child of God every second of their lives.
What about sin? you may ask.
This is where discipline comes in.
Once a son, always a son! Glory to God!
Someone who believed in OSAS went and shot a bunch of people saying he believed in OSAS…he was going to heaven and committed suicide……
First off, it is patently clear that ultimately it is God who decides is such a person was a believer or not in the first place. For the most part we can only go by their confession of faith. Each individual can be convinced in their own minds that one is saved –
There is no law against the fruit of the Spirit. Why does this not mean that the Torah is also not against such fruit? Can 2 men who love each other participate in homosexuality and that be correct loving behavior? Is that what love is? The Torah is our instruction manual on What YHWH calls love. His definitions are the only ones that are correct.
Paul told Timothy to have the right definitions by applying Torah. It is not the “works of the law” that are somehow bad. They are righteous, just, good and holy. It is trying to be justified by the “works of the law” that is wrong. It won’t work. The works described in the Torah are the ones that were before ordained that we should walk in them.
It goes like this:
Paul is in Ephesus for 3 years and “declares all the counsel of YHWH” to them. There is a three year Torah cycle that has existed for a long, long time. The Torah is YHWH’s counsel on righteous living and good works and doctrine… according to Paul.
Paul leaves Timothy in Ephesus.
Paul writes to the Ephesians that we are created unto GOOD WORKS. These GOOD WORKS were known about before.
Timothy is in Ephesus and Paul writes to him to use the Law and the Prophets to teach doctrine, instruct on righteous living and GOOD WORKS.
In Revelation Y’shua tells the Ephesians that they should return to their first love by doing their first works, and that to him that overcomes, he will be granted to eat from the tree of life.
At the end of Revelation we find that only those that keep YHWH’s commandments will have the right to eat from the tree of life.
Who overcomes the world?
1 John 5
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
The one that has true faith, loves YHWH and His children. Real love is when we keep YHWH’s commandments and we like keeping them. Real faith that produces real love that produces commandment keeping, overcomes the world.
12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
Enduring until the end has 2 parts to it.
I’ve been waiting patiently. I am on the verge of being out of time myself.
Bo and folks, please don’t bring the Torah observance debate into this thread, as previously requested. You’ve had hundreds or thousands of posts to do this in other threads. Thanks!
I do apologize, Dr. Brown. I sincerely did not mean to stir anything up, and perhaps you could address my questions at some point. I feel there must be others of the same persuasion as myself.
As I can only get the first 17 minutes of this program, I can only see the question as to whether or not the Church fathers developed the Trinity doctrine or not.
I suppose that when a new idea comes along, or a new name, sooner or later it gets a new term.
If the Trinity was a very very old idea, why isn’t it that we see the name for the term,.. that is, why don’t we see the term Trinity in the Bible?
Maybe there is another term for it somewhere in the Word. If so, why the need for another term?
As to whether or not it was Church fathers involved in this development, I think we can assume that it would be the elders, Church elders who would be about such business rather than chilren on the streets.
Children on the streets usually don’t get much involved in such things. They usually have other interests.
But was the idea of the Trinity around before there were Church elders?
I suppose if we could find such an elder we could ask him if that idea was around before him, and depending on his answer, keep looking to an earlier time until we find one that would say that no such idea was around when he was around, that he is aware of, that no one ever brought up such an idea as far as he knows.
I suppose we will never know who was the first to hold to the idea, or doctrine, of the Trinity as it is spoken of today.
I suppose it developed as people talked about such things, not by intending to develop a new marketing strategy for the gospel or any such thing, but rather, simply walking as men, not always knowing or being aware of the spirits that are influencing their daily lives, affecting what they do and what they say.
I moved our comments over the this thread on the law or Moses:
There are some extreme statements by Dr. Brown in this segment. They are not in keeping with the the whole counsel of scripture of even the NT writings.
Though Dr. Brown is correct that there are no Theocracies at present and will not be one till Y’shua returns for His physical 1000 year reign, he wrongly argues that we are not supposed to continue to do what the law specifies on an individual basis. Though Y’shua’s kingdom is not of this world at present, it will be. It is obvious from the Prophetic writings that YHWH’s Torah will be Messiah’s constitution, if you will.
As to what Messiah and the NT authors do explicitly state, or at least “hint” at, we find that the high ranks of Messiah’s coming kingdom will be occupied by those that…
Goto this link:( http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2011/06/16/believers-and-the-law-of-moses/comment-page-12/#comment-61189 ) on the law of Moses thread to read the rest of the post, as it might be against Dr. Browns wishes for it to be discussed here…even though it is in reference to this Line of Fire broadcast.
I’m a Christian and as some of you know, I witnessed a craft of unknown origin, in fact, it went out of it’s way to show itself to us twice. It didn’t speed in and then fly off in an instant. What it did do was fade in, and then slowly fade back out and a little further down the road it faded in again…at which point the driver of the car I was in pulled over because we were both still flaberghasted at the first incident! No missing time. And then the thing just faded away again…where did it go?
I don’t exactly know what they are, but I know “that” they are. And God knows what they are. That’s good enough for me.
What if these abduction people are the ones in serious trouble? Perhaps they are the ones we should be concerned with reaching out too.
I understand these ufos as interdimentional and their work is directed by God regardless of where they come from (and I do not believe it’s another planet).
The testimony of the United States Armed Forces personnel, such as, Colonels, Lt. Col’s, MP’s, pilots, etc., who have witnessed these craft and documented the incidences of them over our highly sensitive military bases where nuclear weapons are stored is no laughing matter either. These crafts have taken all of our sensitive weaponry off line at will. Who’s will? I would say God’s will, since all things work according to His design and purposes and no one elses.
The Lord said of Israel—“No weapon formed against you shall stand..” I’m inclined to believe Him.
I’ve read “Alien Intrusion”, Bates book and many, many others over the years. Your question about Betty Hill; yes, she was a Christian and she says of her experience that she was calling out Jesus name and her abductor said, or, “gave her the thought” that “Your faith will save you.” Take it with a grain of salt, but that’s the earliest documented version she gave. These testimonies have a way of becoming more fantabulous over the years. And Travis Walton, same, he is a Christian. Again, those two were not given any message from their abductors. So, what do you make of that information? But, the major question in the first place is, why would God’s emmissaries be abducting people in the first place? That’s not clear at all. What if these abductions have nothing whatsover to do with the interdimentional craft that has been witnessed by millions of people the world over?
Demons were very busy during the time of Christ, having moved into many people of His day. He cast them out and they said to Him, “Have you come to persecute us ‘before’ the time?” So, since it’s clear those demons were “not” sent to their ultimate destination at that time I think we can rightly deduce that they are still roaming about today making their temporary home in other souls.
Is not God the maker of the heaven and the Heaven of heavens, the earth and all things in it?
So, “trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path.”
If these whatevers show up claiming that they are our makers and our gods—well, then mystery solved! They LIE! Maybe that is “the lie.”
They are just there and no one but God knows who/what they are, so stop worrying about it and serve the Lord more fervently. I’m sure He can use whatever He chooses to get things done.
We should take a lesson from Job. “Were you there when I laid the foundations of the earth…tell me if you know…?”
After thoroughly researching this subject I’m at peace with it, but I’m now focused on reaching my nephew who is absolutely enamored of this new age “the aliens are our makers” theory which is very heavily funded by the History and History International and now 2 other major television channels.
That’s the most important reason we shouldn’t make light of it. Because he and other very young and impressionable people by reason of what they have been taught in grade schools, which I can assure you is not theology, are much more prone to buy into this new theory of the origins of mankind. Please pray with me that I can reach him!
It’s just another lie of satan being rehashed into modern day humanistic, “there is no God”, “this accounts for evolution” and therefore “rest assured that we are on the verge of something really, really awesome about to be revealed to humanity!”
No kidding, Christians call it “The Second Advent of Jesus!”
In all sincerity, though, I really need your prayers to reach him! This is a much more prevalent theory than the vast majority of Christians realize and it’s not to our credit to brush it off. It’s the up and coming area of apologetics that needs some serious debate and education given to it.
The most amazing video is of what looks like an angel floating above the dome of the rock. Whether it was a kosher angel or a fallen angel, that’s hard to tell, my wife thinks it was a fallen one. But there are four different camera angles for it!
But some atheists put up some fake videos of the event to try and diminish it’s authenticity, but the real videos are stunning, it makes me think of the rapture, quicker than the blink of an eye.
Just look up Jerusalem UFO on youtube and you’ll see it.
In my humble opinion, it wasn’t an angel; it was advanced-holographic-technology-created illusion.
Here are some other illusions performed in China (which explain the 45-minute UFO video that China’s Government alleged was real, last year [July]?)
@Daniel, do you believe in angels as literally existing? And being sometimes seen on earth?
Not as being captured on film for the whole world to see, like that; it is more than likely just a false event to “stir the pot”.
‘Your question about Betty Hill; yes, she was a Christian and she says of her experience that she was calling out Jesus name and her abductor said, or, “gave her the thought” that “Your faith will save you.” Take it with a grain of salt, but that’s the earliest documented version she gave.’
The problem is that in the US, everyone is a Christian!
Going to a Church doesn’t mean that you know The Lord (I can testify of this myself — I attended various churches for years and years before God finally saved me). …And it’s worth noting that the Hills attended a Unitarian church — they refused to acknowledge Jesus as God.
‘And Travis Walton, same, he is a Christian. Again, those two were not given any message from their abductors. So, what do you make of that information?’
Travis Walton was lapsed LDS. Again, one who has been taught that Jesus is Satan’s brother is highly unlikely to know The Lord…
I used to be a true believer in interplanetary visitors (I thought Jesus Himself was genetically engineered by aliens, and that Christianity was an attempt by primitive people to make sense of this), and spent years reading about UFOs. My outlook was a pretty natural corollary of a belief in evolution, that life can arise spontaneously in time wherever conditions permit.
Then I got saved.
UFOs, abductions, examinations, human-alien hybrids… It’s all Genesis 6. As for the physical nature of “alien” craft and artifacts, recall from Scripture that angels are not ghosts and can interact with the physical world. …And angels are vastly more intelligent than humans, vastly more powerful, and they’ve had millennia in which to develop their technology and prepare their deception.
I think saved Christians may possibly see “alien” craft, but the abduction phenomenon is a whole other matter…
And yes, Sheila, you’re right — there is a *massive* amount of UFO-related stuff on the History channel (even over here in Britain). There’s an entire series called “Ancient Astronauts” (or something like that), detailing how the world’s religions have grown out of past alien visitation. Unfortunately, many people will believe this stuff. Dr. Brown might joke about it, but it is serious stuff. The evidence about the reality of these things is overwhelming — the majority of sightings are explainable in terms of hoaxes, natural phenomena, advanced military aircraft, etc. but there remains a significant body of cases which completely defy such explanations.
…And I think that some day (and probably sooner rather than later), these things will manifest themselves and their technology to the whole planet in order to “enlighten” us about our origins, our destiny, the world religions and “true” spirituality. …All the more reason to get grounded in Scripture.
…It’s worth mentioning that those who have had near-death experiences often come back with New Age teachings and reports of extraterrestrial life. These things seem to have a common spiritual root.
For anyone interested in the Ancient astronaut theory and what we’re up against, there are three back to back episodes on History Channel tonight starting at 8pm, U.S. eastern standard time.
The first three episodes of Ancient Aliens that aried on the History Channel are posted on youtube.
Maybe I should just write my own book. 🙂 I have a theory that’s taking shape and one that has not been proposed yet by any Christian. If I have time to give a brief synopsis, I’ll post it at a later date. It won’t be forthcoming right away though I will try to compile it soon.
I’ll check back for comments from tonights episodes or from youtube.
In an earlier post, I merged information about the two famous “Betty’s” in UFO abduction stories. The information about telepathic communication was Betty Andreasson, not Betty Hill. I don’t know about Betty Hill’s religious background but I do know that Regression Therapists who treat those professing an abductee experience will not ever mention that any abduction was halted in the name of Jesus. Betty Hill’s story seems to have grown over the years and taken on other dimensions not initially mentioned. Another author of ufo fame has related that one famous therapist has admitted to halting an abduction by calling on Jesus–off the record of course! So, just wanted to clear that up.
Concerning LDS beliefs about aliens and abductions, there is a book by the title of, “Aliens and UFO’s: Messengers or Deceivers?” written by James Thompson. Of course, in it he states that God made many worlds and planets and that the children of God live on them. He leans on the Book of Mormon in the little bit I was able to read of it so far. I only got the sample book for Kindle download, which you can also read on your PC with Whispersync. Unfortunately, I don’t know what his conclusion will be. Anyway I believe Christians should not be afraid of seriously looking into these things. Although I don’t see where you could begin to investigate it from a Christian perspective until you are solidly grounded in your faith and you have cast out all fear.
Should read “..’others’ halting an abduction..”, it wasn’t the therapist that was claiming an abduction! 🙂
“I have a theory that’s taking shape and one that has not been proposed yet by any Christian. If I have time to give a brief synopsis, I’ll post it at a later date.”
I’d be interested in hearing it, Sheila! I’m sure that “alien visitation” is one of the components of the great End Time deception.
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