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The Law of Moses: as believers in Yeshua, should we keep it? Must we keep it? Does this differ for Jewish and Gentile believers? Join Dr. Brown on today’s show as he sorts out what the Mosaic Covenant means for believers in Jesus!
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Jesus did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, but to bring them to their fullness of meaning; to fulfill that to which they were pointing, and take the ethics of those commandments and to bring them to an even higher level. It is only through Him, therefore, that we can fully live out the requirements of the law.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Jesus brings to full expression everything to which the law was pointing; through Him we draw near to God. He does that to which the laws and sacrifices could only point, and functions as our great High Priest. He calls us to be temples of the living God, ultimately realizing the fullness of the law.
Featured Resources:
A Rest Beyond the Sabbath [DVD]: New York is called “the city that never sleeps” and most people living there seem unwilling or unable to stop and rest for even a few hours. Yet thousands of New Yorkers are able to rest a whole day each week. How and why do they do it?
What Do Jewish People Think About Jesus?: Dr. Michael Brown answers sixty common questions about Jewish people and Jewish culture. He also addresses questions Christians have about their own relationship to the Old Testament Law.
Other Resources:
Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus vol. 4 by Dr. Brown: In this volume of the Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus series, Dr. Brown counters the arguments that the New Testament mistranslates, misuses, and misunderstands the Hebrew Scriptures, also addressing the objections that Jesus or Paul abolished the Law.
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Our Hands Are Stained with Blood by Dr. Brown: This shocking and painful book tells the tragic story of the “Church” and the Jewish people. It is a story every Christian must hear.
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Is Christianity Jewish? [Think it Thru DVD] with Dr. Brown: It seems that the major religious faiths have little or nothing in common at all. Dr. Michael Brown travels to the Bible Belt of the United States to explore what people know of Judaism and its relationship to Christianity.
Ray,
I wrote this awhile back. I think that you will like it. It is kind of your style.
As I was meditating on the word today, A couple of passages were brought to my mind.
Matthew 7
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
I fully believe that Our Father is a good father. He would not give us something harmful to eat. If we ask for our daily bread, He gives us no stones. He gives us that which is food, not that which is not food. So has he made that which is not food into food?
Matthew 4
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Here, we find the answer in principle form. He does not make stones into bread. He does not make food of nonfood. He gives us His word as to what is and is not food. We are to live by that word.
So a good Father gave us instructions about what is food. He did not want us eating stones or swine flesh. When we ask Him to bless our eating of that which His word does not sanction, are we not, in essence, tempting Him to transform stones into bread?
Now, we have seen what a good father does. What about a good son. When a good son is tempted to make food out of nonfood, he says, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of YHWH.” Does a good son ask his father for stones to eat? Or snakes? Or scopions? In our immaturity we may think we want to eat those things, but once we have learned the Father’s will we abstain from that which is poison or harmful.
A good son believes what his father says. He follows the wise and good instructions of his father. He refuses the temptations of the devil. A good father does not give that which is not food to his son to eat.
Shalom
Ray,
Your speculation about Y’shua changing YHWH’s times and laws is quite disturbing. It basically reverses the roles of the anti-Messiah and the true Messiah. I think that you should reflect a bit more before putting forth such statements.
Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
So you are thinking what Messiah said not to think and playing into the Anti-Messiah’s hand.
Shalom
Dan1el,
Here you go. In a nutshell, here is my basic argument. Refute it if you can.
Paul kept the law even after he trusted in Messiah. He gave up trusting the law to gain righteous status before YHWH, but he continued to practice it. Why? Because the law spells out righteous and holy behavior. Contrary to your assertions, the law matters. All are judged guilty because of transgressing it. Paul explicitly states that we may not continue to transgress it (sin) just because of faith or grace. John agrees with Paul.
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Sin is the transgression of the law. If we abide in him we will not live in sin (transgression of the law). Those that have been made righteous do righteousness. The righteousness of the law is kept (not just absorbed) if we are truly walking in the spirit.
Romans 8
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The carnal mind cannot submit itself to the law. It wars against the idea of keeping YHWH’s commandments. It will not allow us to see the truth that grace does not excuse our sin (transgression of the law) it only covers it. It is still incumbent upon us to yield our members to doing righteousness (keeping the law). Obeying does not get us saved it is the fruit of being saved.
Romans 6
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The conclusion is that we are not justified by keeping the law. We are justified by faith, but real faith does not void the law it establishes it. Real faith has the effect of producing law abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 3
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Shalom
With all the words you can say, it will not the fact that you are preaching a false gospel, and you will give an answer for speaking these false words.
Once again, with all your “well-versedness” (as opposed to the caller’s lack of well-versedness”) you’re still trying to promulgate a teaching which Dr. Brown refutes (if you’re really looking to be refuted, Dr. Brown does a good job of that in this broadcast; if you want to argue, argue with him), and which I also thoroughly refuted in the previous posts.
*not change the fact
Dan1el,
Think what you want.
Shalom
Dan1el,
And just so you know…I do not believe what the guy that Dr. Refuted believes. If you think that I do, you have not paid close attention to what I have written. And of course, I do not think that you pay close attention to what is written in the scripture. This is one reason that you do not accept parts of it as true, as per your own admission.
Shalom
That should have been:
And just so you know…I do not believe what the guy that Dr. Brown refuted believes.
Dan1el,
Try this link…it is a good read.
http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2011/07/08/dr-brown-answers-your-questions-22/comment-page-1/#comment-60465
Shalom
I don’t believe Paul kept living by the law, though he lived by the faith of Christ in the Spirit of God and thereby lived rightly, doing the righteousness that is in the law.
There’s lots of righteousness in the law and those who live by the Spirit of Christ fullful the righteousness of it without living by the law.
Rather than living by the law, they live by the Spirit of God instead.
While they live by the Spirit of Christ, they still learn from the law, and use the law to preach the gospel of Chirst, for much of Christ is contained in the law which speaks about him in many different ways.
The law is full of symbolism which represents Christ and also teaches us about the difference between things. It also gives us much information about moral living, though much of the things of the law are not required any more of us by the Spirit, as God has delivered us out from under the law by the work of Christ, who brought about a new covenant to us, making the old something men used to be under, before men came to Christ.
How we are to treat one another and God has remained much the same. Not much has changed in that regard, unless we look at sacrifices and such. (the requirements of days and feasts and such)
Bo,
I just wish that you and others not believe you are under the Law of Moses, that righteousness does not come through it, nor is the righteousness that a believer is granted, which comes through faith in Jesus Christ, “helped” by reading it; that is all I’m saying — if you are not against that, then where is the disagreement?
*reading it with the intent on practicing the works of it*
Dan1el,
I do not know if I can say it any better than I have before. Being made positionally righteous by grace through faith produces the practical righteousness that is delineated in YHWH’s law. The righteousness of the law is not some vague concept. It is what it is. We are supposed to apply ourselves to learning and doing every word of YHWH…including His law, commandments, statutes, etc…not to get saved, but because we have been saved.
Shalom
YHWH’s grace to us is His part of the covenant to keep. Our obedience is to His commandments is our part to keep.
Shalom
Bo,
You being righteous, and Christ’s righteousness being revealed through you are two different men’s righteousnesses: Paul stood in diametric opposition to what you’ve just said:
Php 3:9 and BE FOUND IN HIM, NOT HAVING A RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN THAT COMES FROM THE LAW, BUT THAT WHICH COMES THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST — the righteousness from God that depends on faith…
Faith in Christ: obedience to Christ, “the Word” — this is true obedience to “the Word” of God.
You can have all the righteousness from the Law you want; it isn’t HIS righteousness, isn’t faith in Christ, and — most importantly — isn’t righteousness from God and isn’t dependent on faith in Christ.
Be careful about what you’re teaching, because you could get yourself into trouble in the Day of Judgment.
Dan1el,
If what you hear your messiah saying is in opposition to the commandments of YHWH, either you are not listening carefully to the Him or you have Anti-messiah instead. You are thinking/believing what Messiah said not to think and playing into the Anti-Messiah’s hand.
Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Your doctrine disagrees with Paul also.
You say that faith voids the law to the believer.
Paul says:
Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
You say that we can transgress the law since we are under grace.
Paul says:
Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
You say that it is sinful to keep the law.
Paul says:
Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid.
You say that if we keep the law it will bring eternal death.
Paul says:
Romans 7
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
You say that we should base our understanding of scripture on the clear passages. These are guite clear as they are offered by Paul as clarification to what he had just discussed. He did not want anyone, including you, to think that he was teaching what you and modern churchianity teach.
Paul is clear that we are not to transgress the law once we have believed unto righteousness. Paul is also clear that we cannot obtain righteousness by keeping the law. He is also clear that we will not be saved unless we are steadfast till the end. This leaves us with only one option. Enduring till the end by both faith and commandment keeping.
Revelation 14
12 Here is the endurance of the saints; those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
True faith produces commandment keeping. If we cannot bring ourselves to keep YHWH’s commandments, we do not trust Him fully. We think that there is a better one to serve.
If we think that His Son does not have the same commandments, we do not think that they are truly one and thus we serve a false Elohim…a false Messiah…one that says to us, “Think not that I really said think not that I have come to change the law. What I really meant was the opposite. You just keep listening to me and do not pay attention to those words on pages. They will lead you to do all kinds of terrible things, like loving your neighbor and YHWH by keeping His commandments, and that is bondage. If you can’t love by doing it your own way, you are not free. If you are not free to transgress the commandments you are not truly free”…and then under his breath he will add…”free from righteousness that is, heh, heh, heh, I got ya now.”
Shalom
Bo,
Alright; you’ve been warned: I did my part. With all your arguing, you’re arguing against Dr. Brown, and all the Apostles — not just me.
==============================
Anyone who wants to know a man of God’s opinion about this, just listen to the broadcast; and read 1 Tim 1:5-7 (an explanation of why Bo is so confident, though he is errant).
Dan1el,
Isaiah 8
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Alright Dan1el, you have been warned by Daniel, Isaiah, John and Paul. You are listening to the spirit of Anti-messiah.
And one last time I encourage you to read the context and pay attention to what is actually being said.
1 Timothy 1
2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia––remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
(No other doctrine than he tells Timothy how to obtain in 2 Timothy 3:16-17…that would be from the Law and Prphets.)
4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
(Just like John, Paul says that the commandments of YHWH are the expression of true love and faith.)(1 John 5:2-3)
6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
(I suppose that idle talk does come from those that do not listen to the sound doctrine of the Law and Prophets and start telling about endless genealogies and Jewish fables…sounds like the Talmud to me. I also suppose that those that use the law lawfully to teach doctrine and instruction in righteousness to those that are law breakers and insubordinate to YWHH, it is not jangling at all, except to those that have carnal minds that cannot subject themselves to YHWH’s law.)(Rom.8:7)
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,
9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the law breakers and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
(Sound doctrine from the TNK that Paul recommends for Timothy to rebuke people with, is to keep YHWH’s commandments AND have faith in Y’shua, not just one or the other.)(2 Tim.3:15-4:4; Rev.14:12)
Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Psalms 119
126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.
Shalom
Bo, consider this,
So yeah, let people be what they choose to be. Not everyone wants to be righteous and holy. “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.” If it means that they are to still keep the commandments. “I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment. Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.”
If they can’t hear Moses and the prophets how will they hear Yeshua’s warning in Revelation 22?
Obviously Bo and David does not have the gift of evangelism.
They know nothing about the blood of Christ that saves a man from their unrighteousness, not the law.
Debbie Fraser,
No, probably not the gift of evangelism…maybe the gift of teaching and prophesy. Do not think that I just said that I was a prophet. I am not. Do not think that I just said that I am a teacher. I am not. I am a voice crying on a web page, “Your place in the kingdom is at stake.”
Bo certainly does know of the blood of Y’shua that saves a man from his unrighteousness. He also knows that John says that all unrighteousness is sin and that sin is the transgression of the law. He knows that we need to be saved because we have broken YHWH’s law. But is it OK with YHWH for us to continue to break His law once He has saved us? May it never be.
Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The problem is that if we continue to sin willingly after we come to the knowledge of the truth, there remains no sacrifice for those sins. The sins that it is speaking of are the same as they always were…transgressions of YHWH’s law. How much more sorer punishment do we deserve if we continue to break YHWH’s law when we know what it says? A lot more sorer punishment, because we have been given the power to keep it by YHWH’s Spirit that brings us grace to obey. A lot more, because we slap Y’shua in the face when we know what the Father’s law says and we refuse to keep it. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living Elohim…especially if we have thumbed our noses at Him by ignoring His instructions on righteous and holy living.
Shalom
Debbie Fraser,
The doctrine of once saved always saved is simply unbiblical. Despite what teaching goes around these days, Jesus didn’t die for all your future sins. We need to keep a short account before HIM. We need to confess our sins daily and turn to him in repentance. We can’t just be content to stay in sin and do nothing about it. Jesus always said repent, go and sin no more!
Bo also does not have the gift of spelling. He should have written “prophecy” instead of “prophesy”…he thinks.
I’d rather bring one person to Yeshua’s gospel than a million to another gospel which promotes living in sin.
Juan G.,
Take this link and click reply to post. Send me a note with your email address and we will talk.
http://denver.craigslist.org/rnr/2493176041.html
Shalom
David,
By the way I have a brother name David too.
Besides that, I do not believe in once saved always saved. I agree with all you said here…..
“The doctrine of once saved always saved is simply unbiblical. Despite what teaching goes around these days, Jesus didn’t die for all your future sins. We need to keep a short account before HIM. We need to confess our sins daily and turn to him in repentance. We can’t just be content to stay in sin and do nothing about it. Jesus always said repent, go and sin no more!”
Just to let you know I am not living in sin. I confess my sins daily if needed. I take my walk with the Lord very seriously. Jesus is my Life.
I just don’t think you and Bo should play GOD. It is not right to judge our salvation just because we do not celebrate the Jewish Holidays and the Sabbath day.
Besides you and Bo can not keep the law. I’m sure you broke it plenty of times in your life. There are more sins that we break that are not included in the 10 Commandments. Why don’t you teach about the commandments Jesus gave us? Jesus said we need to obey all of His teachings. He gave us new teachings, new commandments.
Stop acting like you and Bo are the only ones saved, because I know for a fact that I am a child of the Most High. I’m sure others that you debated with in here belong to the Lord too.
So, why don’t we just let God be our judge and not you guys.
Its not right that you guys act like we are unrighteous. I’m washed in grace and mercy. I do not take advantage of the Lord’s grace and mercy either.
Because of what Adam & Eve has done they have dirtied the blood of all humans, all flesh. Flesh and blood can not inherited the kingdom of God. That is why Jesus came, to cleanse the dirty blood, to make it clean.
Before the law was given, there were many of righteous men and women who still entered Heaven when they died.
Instead of boasting about the Law, boast about Jesus.
wanna be friends?? 🙂
Bo,
You have a great sense of humor.
Blessings!!
Debbie Fraser,
Bo is not intending to “play GOD.” Bo is simply making us aware of the verses in the NT that are ignored by churchianity. Bo does not pretend to judge anyone’s salavation, but he does quote NT scripture that points out the discrepancies of those that say that they believe what the NT teaches but stand in opposition to very direct statements in the NT…some of which would indicate a loss of salvation or at least losing ones place of rulership in the kingdom.
Bo thinks that it is obvious that the Biblical holy days and Sabbaths are not “Jewish”, but YHWH’s appointments with us. To relegate these important days and dates to just “Jewish” is not what the scripture teaches. YHWH calls them His. He also calls us His. If we are His and they are His, then we should find ourselves participating in them with Him just as He specifies instead of ignoring them and inventing our own celebrations and expecting Him to be pleased. To obey is better than sacrifice. If all that is coming between us and obedience to YHWH’s commandments is joining Him on the days that He set aside for His family meetings, why would we not want to participate?
Confessing and forsaking our sins is a big part of true faith. Finding out what is and is not sin is paramount in being able to confess our sin as sin. If the NT defines sin as transgression of YHWH’s law, then we should stop breaking it and confess our breaking of it as sin, instead of excusing ourselves with the notion that we cannot keep it. We can keep it by the power of YHWH’s Spirit. YHWH’s says that we will keep it, if we have it in our hearts. That is part of what the New Covenant is supposed to accomplish…if we cooperate and confess our transgressions of the law as sin instead of thinking that it is not applicable to us anymore. “God forbid”, Paul would say.
Bo can keep the law if he walks in the spirit of YHWH. So can Debbie and David. Bo has broken YHWH’s law many, many times. That is why he needs a savior. Is Bo allowed to continue breaking the law now that he is saved? “God forbid”, Paul would say. Very true that there is more sins than breaking the 10 words, which is called “the testimony” in the TNK. The rest of YHWH’s law lets us know what things are sin. Paul tells us this in Romans 7:7.
Y’shua’s new commandment (singular) is that believers lay down their lives for one another…that they love one another as He loves us. (Jn.13:34; 15:12) It does not replace any of His Father’s commandments. He and the Father are one. They agree with each other. They say the same thing. Y’shua said, “If you love me keep my commandments.” (plural) Where did He get the other ones? From His father. He kept the Father’s commandments and calls us His brothers and sisters. Who is our Father? Are we really allowed to go by a different set of house rules?
That is a good idea…letting YHWH be our judge. When we agree with the scripture we are letting Him judge us. When He tells us in the Bible which day is His Sabbath and tells us not to forget about keeping it holy, He is being the judge. If we disagree and do things our own way, we are being our own Elohim/judge/god. If we do what another man says, he is our Elohim/judge. So if Bo or David or Debbie point us to the scriptures and say we ought to do this, they are trying to help us let YHWH be our judge/Elohim. We are destroyed for lack of knowledge…let’s look at that scripture.
Hosea 4
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
We usually quote the first part of the above verse. Most of us do not know what the rest of the verse says. So we are being destroyed by not knowing what the rest of the verse says while quoting the part about being destroyed, and we do not even know it. We need knowledge. We need to stop forgetting YHWH’s law. It tells us His instructions in righteousness and good works.
Bo is not saying that Debbie is not a child of YHHW. Being a child of the Most High comes with responsibility. We are to know His word and put it into practice, lest we deceive ourselves and let our love grow cold. Cold love is not talking about emotion. It is referring to law breaking. When we continue to forget YHWH’s law our love grows cold, as far as He is concerned. Hot love is obedience to every word of YHWH…not just the ones that our Church does.
Bo does not act like anybody is unrighteous. He simply quotes 1 John 3:1-10 and 1 John 5:2-3 to show that we have no right, if we have been made righteous, to do unrighteousness. And that unrighteousness is defined by John as transgressing YHWH’s law. If we continue to transgress YHWH’s law, we are children of the devil, says John…not me. Applying ourselves to keeping YHWH’s commandments proves our love for each other and Him. It proves that we are His children. If we just can’t or won’t, it proves what it proves.
True, if you think that the law was given the first time on Mt. Sinai. Bo thinks that it was in existence long before that. There are many passages in Genesis and the first 19 chapters of Exodus which show glimpses into what YHWH had already revealed to his saints long before Sinai. Everything from Sabbaths and Feast days to unclean food and uncleanness by marital relations. Firstfruits offerings and judgments concerning adultery and murder. The list goes on. Let these three passage suffice to show that YHWH’s law was in effect from creation and will be till heaven and earth pass away.
Genesis 26
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Matthew 5
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Revelation 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Bo is not boasting about the law. He is discussing the subject matter of this blog. He is trying to help anyone that has ears to hear understand that YHWH’s law is for forever and for everyone…not to gain salvation, but to walk as saved people.
Shalom
I keep Jesus’s commandments. If I don’t I confess them as sin. I do walk by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Debbie Fraser does that.
Debbie Fraser,
How can Y’shua’s commandments and His Father’s commandments be contrary if they are one Elohim…the same “GOD”? How can He contradict Himself? Why would He do it?
Matthew 12
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
If the house of YHWH has two different leaders saying two different things, it will not stand. If there are two different sets of rules, there will be chaos. YHWH is not the author of confusion. His instructions have not changed. His Son does not disagree with Him. Y’shua kept His Father’s commandments and asked Him to make us holy (sanctify us) by those same commandments (truth). We abide in the Father’s love by keeping His commandments…Just like Y’shua did.
John 15
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
John 17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
We are all supposed to be one…by keeping the same commandments that Y’shua did. He sanctified Himself by keeping His Father’s commandments. We are to do the same. He made all things known that He heard from His Father. What would make anyone think that He did not hear His Father’s instructions on righteousness and holiness? What would make someone think that they could truly love YHWH and his brother without keeping YHWH’s commandments?
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
We can only know for sure that we are keeping Y’shua’s commandment to love one another as He loved us if we do the same thing that He did. He kept the Father’s commandments. We can only know for sure that we love YHWH if we keep His commandments and like to keep His commandments.
This is what it says in the verses above. Try to understand and accept it as truth. Ask YHWH to help you see and understand.
Shalom
I don’t want to continue this anymore. I needed to say what I did and I am at peace and very joyful that I did write what I did.
Blessings to you!
Shalom
Wow, something went really wrong there. My apologies.
My sister’s name is Deborah. :p
Debbie, I don’t judge your salvation or anyone else’s. There is only one worthy to sit in the judgement seat of Christ and that isn’t me! But that doesn’t mean I won’t warn fellow brothers and sisters is they go off in a dangerous direction. It IS risky to refuse to walk into the fullness of godly living. I hold that the Tora is the goal and Yeshua hit that goal for us, yet we are too imitate him too and live out lives of sanctification, growing in all godliness. And they’re not Jewish holidays, they’re God’s set apart divine appointments, and the Sabbath was around far before Moses, and the Sabbath will be around in the reign of Yeshua on earth as evidenced by Ezekiel.
Just because I live in a body of death that doesn’t always do the thing I want to do, doesn’t mean that the Tora of God is not the Tora of my mind that I desire to do.
Grace is for our weakness, not our wilfulness. Grace is for our shortcomings, not for our nevercomings. Grace bridges the gap, but doesn’t do everything. Do you know that faith acts? “The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, because you did not believe in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the people of Israel, thus you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” Numbers 20:12
When we truly believe in him, we will back it up in deed.
With those around me, I do exactly that, teach Yeshua. I see Yeshua’s commandments are highly complimentary to the Torah, however I’d never ever view them as replacement commandments or think that somehow they remove the relevance of the rest of the commandments to our lives.
Again, there’s only one God and I’m not Him, but when you have to answer to God, wouldn’t you prefer to have been warned beforehand? I know I would.
I don’t think or claim that I’m righteous, and I don’t ever think I called you unrighteous. But the scripture says there is none righteous who has never done anything wrong, but it is my goal and aim to walk down the path of righteousness as far as I can by the power of the Holy Spirit in adherence to the full council of scripture in the knowledge that sanctification is important for the process of salvation.
This isn’t about boasting, but correction. However, if you were my friend and were doubting the Messiahship of Yeshua, I’d do what I could to affirm and support you in keeping Yeshua centre in your life.
Web Host,
Could you remove Post #535? It is a well intentioned eyesore 🙂
OOps I meant 534…535 is the fix.
Juan G.,
Take this link and click reply to post, then follow the instructions. Send me a note with your email address and we will talk.
http://denver.craigslist.org/rnr/2493176041.html
Shalom
David,
That is a riot how you have a sister that is name the same as me and I have a brother the same as yours.
Anyways, the reason why post #534 looks the way it did because the Lord wanted that post to stand out.
The Lord was saying…”My, My, My that girl understands me, Let her message SHOUT OUT TO THE WORLD” 🙂
Dr. Michael Brown gives another clear teaching against Believers being under the Law of Moses on the 7/16/2011 show @ **mins 1:27:56-1:31:22** that Believers are not under the Law of Moses.
http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2011/07/15/dr-brown-answers-your-questions-23/
Thanks Dr. Michael L. Brown
7/15/2011*
Dan1el,
Being under the law of YHWH means either that you are breaking it or that you trying to earn salvation by keeping it. Obeying it is proof of your love for YHWH and your neighbor, seeing that it is divine revelation of YHWH’s version of love. The New Covenant produces a love for YHWH’s instructions to us. The misconception that keeping the commandments is bondage or legalism is rampant in the religion that twists Paul’s writings to their own destruction. The sloppy agape and greasy grace of modern churchianity is diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Apostles.
Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law…
Romans 7
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid…
Galatians 3
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid…
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Shalom
Bo & David,
Why does your bible say this?
Colossians 2:13-14
13 At one time you were dead in your sins. Your sinful nature was not circumcised. But God
gave you new life together with Christ. He forgave us all of our sins.
14 He wiped out the written Law with its rules. The Law was against us. It opposed us. He took
it away and nailed it to the cross.
Debbie Fraser,
The translation you quote from is not accurate. Try these:
KJV
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
ASV
Colossians 2:14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
ESV
Colossians 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
HCSB
Col 2:14 He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.
RSV
Colossians 2:14 having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Here is the definitions of the “cheirographon tois dogmasin” in the Greek which is translated as “handwriting of ordinances” in the KJV.
cheirographon-handwriting
1) a handwriting, what one has written by his own hand
2) a note of hand or writing in which one acknowledges that money
has either been deposited with him or lent to him by another,
to be returned at the appointed time
Tois-in the
dogmasin-ordinances
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
1a) of public decrees
1b) of the Roman Senate
1c) of rulers
What was against us? The certificate of indebtedness. The warrant for our arrest. The record of our the times that we had transgressed the law. Our own handwritten IOU.
Plain and simple, He cancelled our debt. He did not cancel the law of YHWH. He fulfilled it and told us that if we want to be great in His kingdom that we should keep and teach others to keep all of it.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The law of YHWH is not against us. We are against YHWH’s law if we carnal minded. We fight with YHWH about keeping it. We are at enmity with Him about it.
KJV
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
ASV
Romans 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
EMTV
Romans 8:7 Because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not submit to the law of God, nor indeed can it.
ESV
Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
HSCB
Rm 8:7 For the mind–set of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so.
RSV
Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot;
The versions above all say the same thing. What does yours say?
What do you do with post # 542 above. Paul makes it plain that he is in no way saying that YHWH’s law is void or cancelled or to be ignored.
Shalom
“we want to be great in His kingdom that we should keep and teach others to keep all of it.”
Well, I differ with your interpretation of
John 14:12
12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and
they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Jesus was not talking about the Law here. He was talking about us bringing the Salvation message to the world, to bring healing and deliverance to the world through the name of Jesus.
Paul rebuked Peter…
Galatians 2:14-16
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justifiedI obey Jesus’s commands. Whatever Jesus says, it is because the Father told Him to. I am a sinner saved by grace.
Obey Jesus and His Teachings.
John 14:21
21He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
How Come you don’t call Jesus…JESUS? You obviously speak English, so why don’t you just say the name Jesus?
Jesus told us how to pray. He said to call God…Father. Why don’t you call God Father? You call God YHWH all the time.
Its like me calling my Dad…Nick. But I don’t call him Nick. I call him Dad.
If you are a child of God you call God…Father. That is what Jesus says to do.
Again..We need to Obey Jesus and His Teachings. His teachings come from the Heavenly Father.
“obey Jesus’s commands. Whatever Jesus says, it is because the Father told Him to. I am a sinner saved by grace.”
This was written by me too soon after the scripture verse in Galatians 2:14-16.
My apologies.
I seriously can’t wait for the two witnesses to come on the scene, and then for Yeshua to return to judge the world and usher in the Torah Kingdom when we all go up to Ezekiel’s temple to worship the Lord with Yeshua. I just pray that he’ll find me doing those things I ought to be when he comes back.
I believe once Yeshua comes back, Believers get their rank in the kingdom of heaven locked, so however faithful we were in teaching and doing the commandments will determine our eternal rank, position, responcibilies, etc.
Debbie Fraser
I was referring to Matthew 5. I quoted it. It seems that you ignored it. The Messianic kingdom is yet to come. We are in a time of testing at this point…to see if we are trustworthy. Are we being faithful in the things that the Father and the Son ask us to be diligent in? This will determine our place of authority in the coming kingdom. Here is the quote that I posted above again so that you can see the point that I am making.
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Pay close attention to verse 19. It says exactly what I posted.
As for the passage you brought up(John 14:12)…I did not quote it or interpret it. So you can’t disagree with my interpretation of it.
I fully believe John 14:12 that we will do the works of Y’shua and greater works…at least the Apostles did. That is who He was speaking to.
Now, I have prayed for the sick and they recovered, I speak in tongues, and I even have prophesied and been used in words of knowledge and wisdom…but I have not raised the dead or healed leprosy or been a part of the blind seeing again. I know that these things happen today, though.
But we still only know in part and prophesy in part…at this point. The Millennial kingdom will be different, though…at least for those that are found faithful in this life. When we are resurrected/raptured it will be much better. We will see Him face to face. We will see Him as He is.
But we have a warning about thinking that our faithfulness is only about prophesying and doing mighty miracles in His name.
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but /only/ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!”
If we want to even enter the kingdom of heaven we must do the will of the Father. We know that that includes His commandments and laws. He didn’t tell us those things for us to ignore Him. Who will be left out of the kingdom? The law breakers…even though they prophesied and cast out demons and did many miracles. They called Y’shua and His Father “Lord” but they were deceived into thinking that YHWH’s law didn;t matter anymore.
So in the beginning of the sermon on the mount Messiah tells us what will be necessary for us to be great in the kingdom…doing and teaching all of YHWH’s commandments,(Mat.5:19) and at the end of the very same sermon He tells us that if we ignore YHWH’s law, we will not even be let into the kingdom. We will have built our houses on the sand if we do not put these words that He spoke into practice. If we just hear these sayings of His and do not care to keep the Father’s law, our houses will not stand.
It is so simple if we will just accept exactly what Messiah said at the beginning and end of His sermon on the mount.
Those passages that I quoted above are some of Y’shua’s teachings/commandments. We do not love Him if we neglect them…John says so in the passage that you quoted above. He says it here also.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
We do not love YHWH if we do not keep His commandments. We do not love His children if we do not keep His commandments. They are not grievous to those that love in deed and truth. They are to those that love in word only. Loving in word only shows up when we say “Lord,lord” but continue to be law breakers.
I call the Messiah by the name that His Father gave Him…by the name that His mother and disciples called Him. I say it the best way that I know how. “Jesus” is not the best way. I used to say His name that way, but I found out that it was not the correct pronunciation. When I was a child I spoke as a child, when I became a man I put away childish things. I do my best to call people by their names. Why would I do differently to my Messiah? I do not say Joseph Green instead of Giuseppe Verdi, even though it might be the English equivalent.
I do say, “Father” when I address YHWH in prayer. YHWH said that He wanted to be remembered as YHWH, though…so when I am referring to Him, I honor His request to make His name known and not let it come to be forgotten or replaced with the title “LORD.” Check this out:
Jeremiah 23
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
We have forgotten YHWH’s name for “Baal.” “Baal” is the Hebrew word for “Lord.” So in English, we are doing the exact same thing that the false prophets of Jeremiah’s time did.
Dr. Brown uses YHWH’s name and He even says “Yeshua” instead of “Jesus” at least some of the time. Are you going to fault him too? Why isn’t it good to say His name the best we can?
Exodus 3
15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the Israelites: Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever; this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
Hosea 12
5 Yahweh is the God of Hosts;
Yahweh is His name.
YHWH is His name and He wants it to be remembered in every generation. When I speak to Him I call Him Father. When I speak of Him I proclaim His name as He has asked us to do.
Y’shua did the same thing, even though the religious leaders of His day disallowed anyone to speak His name.
John 17
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Hebrews 2
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Shalom
Let’s take a look at some honest transliterations of Hebrew names and their standard English Bible equivalents:
Ruth – Ruth
Noaḥ – Noah
Daniel – Daniel
Yeishua – Jesus
Ok, so what do we notice so far?
How come all the other names are identical but Yeishua is transliterated so unfaithfully into English? Any faithful translation of names should either be a transliteration or translated of the meaning of the name. So pick Yeishua or ‘He will save’.
But Yeishua told us to keep the commandments as revealed in the rest of the scriptures, so we can’t just be selective, unless you don’t really want to faithfully follow Yeishua.
It’s so true though. Even Yeishua talked about the Pharisees making void the commandments of God by their tradition and the Church does exactly that today.
WITHOUT people! 🙂