Dr. Brown responds to objections from Rabbi Michael Skobac and Rabbi Eli Cohen from Jews for Judaism. (Listen to part 1, responding to Rabbi Blumenthal’s objections, here.)
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: We have certainty, based on careful study of the scriptures, that the Messiah who will rule and reign at the end of the age, and establish God’s perfect kingdom on this earth, is the one who came and suffered, who died, and was rejected and misunderstood. As surely as He came, He will come again, our Jewish people will turn and recognize Him, and we will see the day when all Israel will be saved.
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: I’ve studied the scriptures for many, many years. I’ve learned that rather than Matthew and the authors of the New Testament being deceptive, shallow, or mishandling the scriptures, I discovered the depths of wisdom, knowledge, and insight and truths of the Messiah in their writings.
Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus Volume 3: This third installment of Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus looks specifically at questions raised about messianic prophecies in Isaiah, Daniel, Psalms, Haggai, and Zechariah.
and Volume 4: In this volume of the Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus series, Dr. Brown counters the arguments that the New Testament mistranslates, misuses, and misunderstands the Hebrew Scriptures, also addressing the objections that Jesus or Paul abolished the Law.
Jesus: Messiah or Not [DVD Debate]: A question asked and debated for centuries. Can we know for sure? Featuring Dr. Michael L. Brown and Rabbi Michael Gold.
Dr. Brown Answers the Rabbis (Part 1)
Dr. Brown answers challenges given him by traditional rabbis as to why Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, focusing today on challenges from his friend, Rabbi Yisroel Blumenthal. Rabbi Blumenthal’s blog is: http://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/. Dr. Brown is currently working on written refutations of Rabbi Blumenthal’s major articles.
Countering the Counter-Missionaries [22 mp3 set] : An important resource will be a great faith builder for those who are struggling, a great outreach tool for those who are seeking, and a great source of edification and enrichment for those who are involved in Jewish evangelism.
Re: post #296, perhaps, then, I have more insight into the yeshiva world than you do? I imagine you would have to say perhaps.
Re: post #297, I’m not aware of any time in history when the entire professing Church held to replacement theology, but I’m certain that statements have been made of repentance for this theological error, along with other errors. Is that specifically what you’re asking for?
I wasn’t writing to condemn Christianity – I was asking out of curiousity as to how the repentance process works
re. # 296 Not only would I say perhaps – but I would admit that in a certain sense for sure – at least to the degree that we should hear the criticism – besides – wouldn’t you acknowledge that after interacting with Christians for so many years – that I should be in a position to assess their sensitivity to truth? (- to some degree of-course)
re. # 297 – my question was regarding those churches that did teach it and now repent of their error – do they go to teh root of teh error?
Besides – I thought replacement theology camepretty early on in Church history – lets say in teh year 500 – is tehre any group that explcitly did not hold to replacement theology?
Ah, ok; I hope you remember that I wrote “– am I misunderstanding you?”: I was thinking maybe I read what you wrote wrongly. Thanks.
The Talmud says that the Noachide Laws include abortion and homosexuality. What is your stance on Gentiles in the Unites States with all their abortion clinics? And what is your stance with all the Gentiles that are doing homosexual sexual acts? There are 1.3 million legal abortions per year in the United States. One of the Noachide Laws is to set up courts of Justice that will put into effect the other Noachide Laws (in Gentile lands). What do you feel is the American Jewish responsibility, whom, as being also children of Noah, would be in establishing true courts of Justice demanded by Hashem. In this case the United States courts and laws are in direct vioalation to the Talmud and thus to the Noachide Laws. The Gentile United States is supposed to abide by the Noachide Laws.
What are your thoughts on Shmuley Boteach, when he supports a Jewish gay relationship, as opposed to telling them that they should repent of homosexuality? (Let me further explain below)
Would you also support two Jewish men in their gay marriage (sexual relationship) or would you tell them that they should repent?
Shmuley’s argument is that no man should be alone (without a sexual partner), therefore, if they are gay and thus not attractive to woman then it would be better that they would not be alone (without a sexual partner) and thus, therefore be doing a Torah prohibition than to be alone and not be doing a Torah prohibition. Your thoughts, do you agree, disagree, kinda of do, kinda of don’t?
If the Talmud says that Gentiles should not do abortions of their children, should not also Jews not do abortions as the Noachide Laws are binding on the whole human race. Your thoughts on abortions when especially it is not life or death? As we know that one is allowed to break the Torah if it is life or death scenario.
What about a bisexual? Would you tell them they should repent, since, they will not be alone? Your thoughts? Shalom Lecha chaver.
Sorry I haven’t been able to keep up with a lot of the conversation on here and if I missed anything I apologize.
I was just listening to Dr. Brown’s lecture “Are the Rabbis right” on his RealMessiah website. (http://realmessiah.askdrbrown.org/listen/are-rabbis-right) I was really shocked at some of the things I was heard. I am sure you’ve heard this lecture before, what is your response? If you want, we can talk about one point at a time, but I am curious if you’ve made a response to this specific lecture. If so, you could just provide me with a link, if not, I’d love to talk about it with you.
Very interested to hear back from you my friend.
God bless you!
“I was really shocked at some of the things I was heard. ”
Should read: “I was really shocked at some of the things I heard.”
I understand that this lecture is what Dr. Brown addresses in his fifth volume – I am currently writing a comprehensive refutation to that volume – I can send you the unfinished document if you think it would help you – contact me at email@example.com
Remember you told me that I needed to be a part of a local body? I tried that out last night, and went to a bible study which a brother was holding – we talked for almost 6 hours. I don’t really think it was for me, though: what do you do when you’re looking at all of these people, and you can’t see God? What is that worth?
Eliyahu, and/or Dr, Brown (time permitting),
I’d like to ask some very frank questions and I pray that you might have some answers.
1. First of all, do the Jews believe (the Orthodox as a whole) that the Gentiles would ever be brought under the Law of Moses? I’m asking this for the sake of some others.
2. Secondly, do they believe that God ever intended to include us in Israel’s salvation?
3. Do you think that, perhaps, they view Christianity as false because Messiah has delivered us from our sins too? That He came to redeem “all” of mankind as opposed to just the Jews?
Because, forgive me for coming right out and saying it, but, I get the feeling that they think we are ignorant of God because we don’t have the Talmud to explain the Scriptures to us. Sort of like, “Those who don’t know the law are cursed.”
4. Do you see that the failure of Israel before Messiah came to “declare His Name to the ends of the earth” was part of the LORD’s “own arm bringing Him the victory”? Instead of winning converts to the true God, they took up the worship of the pagan nations and so the Lord brought the knowledge of the true God to the ends of the earth by way of Messiah, Yeshua, because God so loved the whole world that much. Those “who were never thought of as ‘beloved’ are now called beloved too.”
5. Another thing is, the Talmud was written down hundreds of years after the earliest copies of the NT writings and I was wondering why if it was “passed down” by oral tradition is there not the mention of those priests who go all the way back to the time of Moses and after? Is there any mention anywhere in it of those priests who presided in the First Temple or the Second Temple period?
6. Another question. If the Talmud is true, why is there anything to even be debated at all? It seems it should have been settled when Moses first gave it, don’t you think? It should just say, “The LORD said to Moses…”, and then just list everything! Forgive me, but, it seems to me that they are forever looking for something that “was hidden” from the very beginning when it should have been perfectly plain for all of them (the priests and the Israelites) in the first place.
The Jewish identity, as the Rabbin say, was the “Revelation at Sinai” which they rightly claim was “given to all of Israel” by the mouth of God, correct? So, how in the world did the “direct” revelation give way to something “hidden” and not at all revealed at Sinai?! The revelation sort of disappears in a smoke screen.
7. Is it possible, that the Talmud arose in direct response to the Gospel and the New Testament Scriptures, as it first appears hundreds of years later than the Gospel age? It doesn’t seem to have Moses specifically stating anything as solidly from the LORD’s mouth to his ears and then from Moses mouth to the Priests ears. If it was part of Torah, why wasn’t it written down at the same time as the Scriptures were? What’s their reason for that? I would think it was only because it (the oral tradition) wasn’t meant to be given to the whole world, is that correct reasoning?
8. Do you believe that the Orthodox Rabbis “strive for debate and the pointing of the finger” to such an extent that the Talmud has, in a way, become an idolatrous obsession? It seems that the laws have become to them “precept upon precept, line upon line, until they have gone and fallen backwards.”
Honestly, it seems to me that they have taken the clear, written words of Scripture and turned them upside down and thoroughly added to them to the point where no one even recognizes the original text anymore. Just my personal observation. I’m wondering if the LORD who gave them would even recognize them.
If the Talmud’s origin was from Mt. Sinai, why does it never end? If it was an original revelation given with the Torah, it should have been settled, what, 4000 years ago. As you said a while back–how can anyone get away with adding to it?
Sorry, I know it’s a good many questions, but I’ve been hoping to find someone who began in that tradition and is, therefore, knowledgable enough to answer them. And Dr, Brown has also researched these things extensively, not that he has the time to engage with us here very often.
I pray that you are not chasing an “abstract” ideal. Jesus came to teach us plainly of the Father, “He and the Father are One,” and “whoever has seen Me has seen the Father.” You may be taking your eyes off of Him and chasing after another absolute that you won’t find anywhere else. I’m only trying to help you as I see you struggling with the weaknesses you see in all of us, who are, after all, only human.
In striving to find perfection, look to Jesus as your guide and keep your eye singular. Humankind is wrought with imperfections on this side of eternity.
I pray you find peace in Him.
Me–1. “First of all, do the Jews believe (the Orthodox as a whole) that the Gentiles would ever be brought under the Law of Moses? I’m asking this for the sake of some others.”
I see this as a reasonable interpretation of the Millennial Reign of Messiah, when “the law shall go forth from Jerusalem” and the Lord will “rule them with a rod of iron.”
Wanted to clarify that as I really put my foot in my mouth yesterday! Oh, but, “to err is human.”
I’m always amazed at how Jesus handled people. It was always according to God and his ways, no matter what we want to call them, whether it be laws, statutes, judgments, or whatever.
To call upon God but not recognize Christ Jesus, is completely contrary. Such a thing could never make any sense at all to those who have come to Christ because he is the way, the truth, and the life.
If a man really does call upon God, I can only trust that when Jesus is revealed, does appear, makes himself known in the heart of a man, no matter how that may happen, that he will be recognized as everything that God is, and everything that God produces in the life of a man.
Here in my English dictionary, under the first definition of the word recognize, it says, “to be aware of as something or someone known before, or as the same as that known. (to recognize an old friend after many years)”
Isn’t Jesus the clear, sharp outline of God himself, making the Father known in definite, explicit, and clear terms?
I trust that if a man really does follow God, he could not possibly miss Jesus when he does appear to him, and if a man really does seek to follow God, he will also really seek to follow Jesus when he appears to him.
And don’t we have the scripture making this promise to Israel? (Rom 11:26)
The scripture does tell us that Christ Jesus was in the world (in the Spirit) and that men like David really did connect with him.
David connected with him in Zion.
Whether a man goes to Zion or Zion comes to earth, there will be an interaction made, a connection, an experience.
I was just perusing your questions above about Orthodox jews and the Talmud.
I’m not sure I have any inclination to engage you in a dialogue about this but I do have 3 questions for you.
1) How many of the 2700+ pages of the standard edition of the Babylonian Talmud did you read before you formulated the opinions (specifically items 5,6,7, and 8) you articulated about the talmud in your comment above?
2) In your point 8, where you said, “Honestly, it seems to me that they have taken the clear, written words of Scripture and turned them upside down and thoroughly added to them to the point where no one even recognizes the original text anymore. Just my personal observation” I’m also curious as to how many Orthodox talmud-oriented Jews you have interacted with, in coming to this opinion.
2) If you would really like to know what Orthodox Jews believe about something, why don’t you pose your questions to an Orthodox Jew? If I was really interested in knowing what, say, fundamentalist christians think about something, I wouldn’t ask my Rabbi. I’d ask a fundamentalist christian.
That smiley should have been an “8”.
Yeah, the smiley guy really threw me off. Back with my thoughts tomorrow.
Goldberg–1) How many of the 2700+ pages of the standard edition of the Babylonian Talmud did you read before you formulated the opinions you articulated about the talmud in your comment above?
As I said it was only my observation of it, as in my first impression, perhaps much like your reading of the NT for the first time. (?) It’s all foreign to me in that it reads nothing like the OT does. I’d only been previously acquainted with particular paragraphs that others had pointed out and sent to me. Keep in mind, if you would, that every aspect of my theological reasoning is only a little more than three years old now. I came to faith about six years now. I wasn’t even familiar with the Christian Doctrine(s) before then. I’ve come a long way in a short amount of time only to realize I’m eons behind everyone else.
Don’t be offended by my personal observations, because I understand you know the Talmud as well as I know Botanical Latin, and I wouldn’t expect you to be as patient with my ignorant questions as Dr. Brown would. Every bit of this discussion is new to me. I would imagine that you don’t take in many inexperienced female goyim to teach Torah and the Talmud to. I do hope you have a sense of humor–as I already know the answer to that statement.
If you would like to comment, by all means do. I posed it earlier knowing you wouldn’t participate until after the Sabbath, but, as it was, no one else was attending either. Please jump in wherever you would like. I asked Eliyahu because he comes from that tradition and I wanted to garner a forthright opinion. Really I’d like to get absolutely as many opinions and answers as possible.
I don’t see where the number of pages in a book would qualify it as necessarily true, or worthy of my indepth study. Error can comprise anywhere from 1 sentence to a million. In the same respect, truth can be found in the most unlikely places. Many times from the mouth of babes. I don’t hear a lot of praise of God in it. There is the “Blessed be He”, but, I’m thinking about really getting down and shouting of “Thank You, Lord–you are awesome!” Do you know what I mean? Just lacking the pouring of the heart out to God for His manifest blessings. It just seems very sterile to me.
But in answer to your question, I have only read about 100 pages and even then I skipped around here and there. Very tedious. There are more than a few supernatural occurences going on in it. I thought one reason that the Rabbis rejected the NT was because of all of the supernatural elements to do with Jesus. Whereas the Talmud has past Rabbis mouths mumbling from their graves and people dropping dead over words spoken by men with shades talking to the living. I thought we weren’t to commune with familiar spirits (ghosts). Anyway, there seems to be too much reasoning going on if that makes any sense to you. I haven’t encountered, yet, very much heartfelt adoration of the Lord. Perhaps you can point me to it.
I do wish Moses had included in the Torah the part about Adam’s skin shining like our buffed fingernails before the fall. That is pretty interesting, reminds me of the transfiguration almost. I have also, since, read Christian commentaries that agree that Jesus was alluding to the teaching of the Talmud and possibly, the statement about Jesus “having never learned letters” could likely be an allusion to studying the Scriptures as the Pharisees did. As in, their traditions. That would have been question number 7.
So, I am now interested in those writings that speak to Messiah and in them having been written before Jesus and after. Those are the ones I am now looking into in my search of the Talmud. It would take a thousand lifetimes to learn all I would like, so, I was hoping to draw on others knowledge so I wouldn’t get way-laid from my own studies.
The rest are my “first impressions.” The Rabbis are asking questions about one thing to each other in the Talmud and then they will pull a verse out of another part of Scripture and apply it to their discussion. That can work at times but, if we started doing that with every verse, the original meaning becomes more than obscured. I understand that man “shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord” and we should all meditate on our Lord’s words as He is the Word of God and all things in heaven and in earth are given into His hands by our Father. All judgment, too, is His to dispense. There is, however, no condemnation to those who are in Messiah, Yeshua.
Thank you for your resposne.
a couple of thoughts:
1) I never suggested that the length of the work in any way attests to its truth. I was simply trying to ascertain whetehr you were sufficently familiar with it to form a credible opinion.
2) You say you’ve read abot 100 pages. I assume you are referring to an English translation. May I ask what translation you’ve been using.
To be honest, I’m am not especially inclined to engage in a discussion about this with you.
I will leave you, though, with a repitition of a prior thought. You’bve asked some reasonable questions about the Talmud, it’s structure and the role it plays in Judaism. I have no doubt you will get a throrugh response from Dr. Browm. However, if you are truly interested in genuionely Jewish answers to your questions, temper the christian polemical answers you will get from Dr. brown with geuine Jewish perspectives from orthodox Jews. Their are many Jewish educational websites you can tap into for this.
Thank you for your considerate response. I looked into one online translation, but, it was so vulgar that I left it immediately and found another. I’ve been looking into this one: Bablyonian Talmud, by Michael L. Rodkinson, , at sacred-texts.com If you recommend a better translation, I will certainly move over to it.
“1. First of all, do the Jews believe (the Orthodox as a whole) that the Gentiles would ever be brought under the Law of Moses? I’m asking this for the sake of some others.”
The Law of Moses has laws for Gentiles, Jews, Jewish slaves, Gentile slaves, women, men, hermaphrodites, descendants of Aaron (priests) and Levites. The Noachide Law found in the Torah abides over non slave Gentiles outside and inside of Israel. A Gentile may be brought under the Law of Moses (613 commandments) if the Gentile first becomes Jewish. If they are still Gentile, then, they would never be under the entirety of Moses’ Law intended for Jews. Any prophetic futuristic Scripture verses, pointing to worldwide Torah observance would be why some teach that at some point in the future; most of the Gentiles will convert to Judaism.
“2. Secondly, do they believe that God ever intended to include us in Israel’s salvation?”
Salvation for a Gentile is being just and righteous as a Gentile, obeying the commands Hashem gave to Gentiles.
“3. Do you think that, perhaps, they view Christianity as false because Messiah has delivered us from our sins too? That He came to redeem “all” of mankind as opposed to just the Jews? “
No I do not. Judaism loves Gentiles.
“Because, forgive me for coming right out and saying it, but, I get the feeling that they think we are ignorant of God because we don’t have the Talmud to explain the Scriptures to us. Sort of like, “Those who don’t know the law are cursed.”
Many if not most Gentiles are ignorant (just my opinion). Most Christians, even, do not know how to read Hebrew or Greek. There is far too much ignorance. The Christians used to have it forbidden to read the Bible themselves as only the Priests were allowed to read it, and thus only they could teach it, everyone else had to take their interpretation and follow it. This is how the atrocities of the Crusades happened. Today, I see the majority of Christians, having never even read the entire Tanach or Brit Chadashah. The argument above, needing the Talmud to understand the Law, is better directed towards the Karites but not the Christians who do not even follow any Law of Moses, and are not required to, besides the Noachide Laws. With exception to the Jewish followers of Y’shua, only to them would this really be relevant.
“4. Do you see that the failure of Israel before Messiah came to “declare His Name to the ends of the earth” was part of the LORD’s “own arm bringing Him the victory”? Instead of winning converts to the true God, they took up the worship of the pagan nations and so the Lord brought the knowledge of the true God to the ends of the earth by way of Messiah, Yeshua, because God so loved the whole world that much. Those “who were never thought of as ‘beloved’ are now called beloved too.”
Yes sure, I do. Jewish Rabbis have often seen how Hashem used both Christianity and Islam to spread the Tanach to all the world.
“5. Another thing is, the Talmud was written down hundreds of years after the earliest copies of the NT writings and I was wondering why if it was “passed down” by oral tradition is there not the mention of those priests who go all the way back to the time of Moses and after? Is there any mention anywhere in it of those priests who presided in the First Temple or the Second Temple period?”
Yes, many names of Kohanim (priests) were recorded in the Talmud, Tanach, Brit Chadashah, even Josephus. The Mishna in the beginning of Avot and (in more detail) Maimonides in his Introduction to Mishneh Torah records a chain of tradition from Moses at Mount Sinai down to R’ Ashi, redactor of the Talmud and last of the Amoraim.
“6. Another question. If the Talmud is true, why is there anything to even be debated at all? It seems it should have been settled when Moses first gave it, don’t you think? It should just say, “The LORD said to Moses…”, and then just list everything! Forgive me, but, it seems to me that they are forever looking for something that “was hidden” from the very beginning when it should have been perfectly plain for all of them (the priests and the Israelites) in the first place.”
There is the Doraita (Torah commands) and there is De’Rabanan (Rabbinic commands). The parts being argued are from the De’Rabanan. Ezra instituted that the Torah have a fence around it. So the DeRabanan commandments can change because it is only a fence. The arguments are usually only De’Rabanan commands.
“The Jewish identity, as the Rabbin say, was the “Revelation at Sinai” which they rightly claim was “given to all of Israel” by the mouth of God, correct? So, how in the world did the “direct” revelation give way to something “hidden” and not at all revealed at Sinai?! The revelation sort of disappears in a smoke screen.”
The Torah was given to Moses and the people as a Trigonometry math book is given to students. Likewise the Oral Torah is the math teacher explaining the written Torah.
“7. Is it possible, that the Talmud arose in direct response to the Gospel and the New Testament Scriptures, as it first appears hundreds of years later than the Gospel age? It doesn’t seem to have Moses specifically stating anything as solidly from the LORD’s mouth to his ears and then from Moses mouth to the Priests ears. If it was part of Torah, why wasn’t it written down at the same time as the Scriptures were? What’s their reason for that? I would think it was only because it (the oral tradition) wasn’t meant to be given to the whole world, is that correct reasoning?”
Talmud Babylonian Temurah 14b, and, Talmud Babylonian Gittin 60b. Jerusalem Talmud Meggila 4:1, all point to the Talmud being forbidden to be written down. Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai, the rule from Moses from Sinai, is often said. The Talmud never mentions that it was written down as a reaction to the Brit Chadashah writings. But it does say that it was written down out of fear that the Torah would be forgotten in exile.
“8. Do you believe that the Orthodox Rabbis “strive for debate and the pointing of the finger” to such an extent that the Talmud has, in a way, become an idolatrous obsession? It seems that the laws have become to them “precept upon precept, line upon line, until they have gone and fallen backwards.”
I do not think that idolatry is the correct term. There is no worship of Talmud. The Karite Jews appreciate the Talmud commentaries yet do not hold to it as anything other than a commentary. It is a good source of historical insight into those past days.
“Honestly, it seems to me that they have taken the clear, written words of Scripture and turned them upside down and thoroughly added to them to the point where no one even recognizes the original text anymore. Just my personal observation. I’m wondering if the LORD who gave them would even recognize them.”
Only Hashem knows what Hashem thinks. The Karite Jews would have a similar inquiry.
“If the Talmud’s origin was from Mt. Sinai, why does it never end? If it was an original revelation given with the Torah, it should have been settled, what, 4000 years ago. As you said a while back–how can anyone get away with adding to it?”
Jeremiah 14:14, “”The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.” Because the Talmud claims to be the true teaching of Hashem and the Brit Chadashah claims to be the true teachings of Hashem, I cannot claim both to be the true teachings of Hashem. Therefore, either the Talmud, is similar to the above verse from Jeremiah or the Brit Chadashah is similar to the above verse. “The deception from their own minds” is either referring to the Brit Chadashah or the Talmud. I am not claiming that that Jeremiah is literally prophesying about either the Brit Chadashah or the Talmud. I am saying that in likewise form, this is what has happened to either the Talmud or Brit Chadashah. I, like the Karites, have a hard time accepting the Talmud. Peace.
M. Brown’s “Answers to Jewish Questions about Jesus” gives such insights in broad terms of Jewish community understanding, impact, and prejudice, where so. His long and short publications on these matters are most useful.
Thanks again, Eliyahu. I very much appreciate your taking the time to answer all of my inquiries. There’s no other way to get an answer to some things except to come right out and ask. Personally I love studying the Word of God more than any other subject. There is always something to be discovered with the next reading. Thankfully there is a place for all of us in the Kingdom–I can’t wait to talk to Abraham and Sarah!
ESV – Isa 28:9 – “To whom will he teach knowledge, and to whom will he explain the message? Those who are weaned from the milk, those taken from the breast?
“From the mouth of babes, you have perfected praise.”
I’m just starting on Volume 5 of that series. Never delved into it before now.
I pray you are well.
Are you aware that I wrote a critique of volumes 1 3 and 4 of Dr. Brown’s Answering Jewish Objections?
I began writing a critique of volume 5 – it is not yet finished – but I can share parts of it with you – if you are interested you can contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org
You said: “I know a person who is utterly convinced that his pet cat is God. It’s not that he worships that actual feline anatomy, that is simply the vessel, in which He has become flesh. He simply believes that God’s spirit has become manifest in this particular tabby. (God can do that can’t he?) He sees in this cat a strength of spirit, humility, and oneness with the world, from which he derives great comfort and from which he is motivated to be the best person he can be.
So great is his conviction that he prays using the following formulation “Our Lord “whiskers” in whom we have found the true meaning of our existence”.
Is this man an idolator based on the Tanakh?
If so why?”
Could you tell me how this is relevant to Christianity, at all? I just don’t see the parallels. Perhaps we could zero in on your misunderstanding of the incarnation or the divine Messiah.
Well, answer my question. And we’ll take it from there.
And keep in mind two points
1) I wrote this in reposne to your asking me wy I don’t think yeshua is from God (read IS GOD)
2) I am not asking whether you would consider this man’s belief system compelling. You would clearly consider him delusional. But this man does believe in the OT. So I am simply asking whether within the context of HIS own delusion, you would charge him with idolatry, and if so, on the basis of what OT verse?
To reiterate my last post, I don’t see the relevance of your question.
If you would like to discuss why I believe Yeshua is God or why you believe Yeshua is not God. (or cannot be God) I’d be more than happy to partake in that discussion with you.
It is a paradox, the mystery of godliness shrouded in the words of the Hebrew Prophets of old. Every one from Moshe forward tells of the Prophet like unto Moshe, the eternal One placed on the throne of David, the one ‘cut off’ of Daniel, the Kingdom which will overtake all others, the one coming to speak out of the wilderness, the law coming forth from Zion, the nations coming to be taught with “G-d” in the land of the People of the Book, on and on.
This came from the chosen Land’s rural area to the chosen city, by way of the season of righteous repute. What Jeremiah declared started, and went out from the People to the world–out of compassion. Out of compassion. Out of compassion. Like a pearl thrown into the center of an pond thereafter: it rippled out from Jerusalem to the whole wide world. And, for every first visitation event, more will complete what is written. A voice was heard over the Land, spoken to the People. Let it be so.
Based on the teachings of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Can I get some thoughts on this please? Thanks.
Blessings to you all.
*Based on the teachings of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Does anyone have any comments on this?
(By the way – Dr. Brown, LOFradio, I had to change my e-mail address because for some reason whenever I posted anything on here (using my other e-mail) it would just delete what I said and brought me to the top of the page. Hopefully everything’s OK.)
Strange, 13 is the number of depravity according to Illuminists, who have divided the American Calendar into 13’s — it is 6 (man) placed above God (7) — according to a former Illuminist (Doc Marquis), in his expose, “America’s Occult Holidays” (http://www.youtube.com/user/1156511?feature=mhee#p/u/38/DeK-O2FkRbI).
12, 7, and 8 are numbers of completion in the Tenach. Once the altar is reestablished, who goes over its flames with the power of the air, and by what number?
I guess the major point I was trying to point out was not the gematria, but the fact that these chassidic Rabbis taught (based on what the Lubavitcher Rebbe taught) that: “Yachid is a oneness that cannot tolerate plurality — if another being or element is introduced into the equation, the yachid is no longer yachid. Echad, on the other hand, represents the fusion of diverse elements into an harmonious whole. The oneness of echad is not undermined by plurality; indeed, it employs plurality as the ingredients of unity.”
I believe that opens the door to a complex unity within God/trinity, discussion. Strictly from a Jewish perspective. (as these Chassidic Rabbis are not secret Christians)
So in Deuteronomy 6:4, the shema “Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad” – Hear o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one (echad)”…
Obviously, the rabbis are NOT teaching that there is more than one God. Nor do we (Christians) believe that there is more than one eternal God. But what they are pointing out is that there is a PLURALITY within the ONENESS of God.
I just found this amazing, sorry to repeat it so many times. I just want everyone to understand this point. So, we could quote Dr. Benjamin Sommer and the orthodox Rabbis could write him off as being a liberal, but could you say the same about these Chassidic Rabbis, or the Lubavitcher Rebbe?
Just to restate the point here, in Deuteronomy 6:4, “Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad”, “Hear o’Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one (echad)”
The Rabbis here are not saying that there is a plurality of “gods”. Nor do Christians believe this about God. What the Rabbis are saying here is that “echad” in this particular verse speaks of a plurality WITHIN the ONENESS of God. A plurality within the UNITY of God.
We could quote Dr. Benjamin Sommer, and the orthodox Rabbis can write him off as being a liberal. Sure… But, can we say that these Chassidic Rabbis or the Lubavitcher Rebbe ware all liberals? I wonder.
Sorry for posting this so many times, I was just very excited to find this and I would really like some interaction, or understanding from the traditional Jewish side of how they interpret the words of these Chassidic Rabbis teaching’ which was based off of what the Lubavitcher Rebbe taught.
Whoa, I apologize for all the duplicates. I see my e-mail got fixed and everything I tried to type a few says ago finally came through.
Thanks for fixing my e-mail! I appreciate it!
I read your post about Jesus ceasing to be God for some time. The bible said that Jesus gave up his heavenly privileges for a little while being on earth and humbled himself submitting to the Father doing the will of God the Father. Jesus being one with the Father is part of the Trinity. Coming as a human being is to come in a position lower than God, what Jesus did to offer himself as a sacrifice. Note that a human is inclusive of the body with the soul and the spirit. When the body was sacrificed and blood was shed it is that Jesus died, as human beings die. Note the spiritual aspect of the person is eternal. God is not a man, the body Jesus came in died! God was still very present in the spiritual form when departed from the body like any of us will when we die. Jesus not only died but rose from the dead on the 3rd day. This new body is the kindof body that believers followers in Jesus the truth if God will have when we are resurrected from the dead. Jesus conquered death on the cross.
God bless you
Just to be very clear. Jesus is God, Jesus is the Son of God. The Father is God, The yHoly Spirit is God. They are 3 distinct persons being ONE. They are ONE God: Father, Son (Jesus) & Holy Spirit. Thus the term trinity.
and also to add to the above. Our sins lead to spiritual death. spiritual death does not lead to having the soul cease to exist but the soul is eternal and dying eternally. (not to forget when God made man he breathed His own breath). Jesus who is God who came in the flesh died physically and rose from the dead. There is life after physically dying to those who believe in Jesus. none of us is exempt from physically dying. What is born of flesh has to die. From dust we are made to dust we shall return. Thats the physical aspect of things. Jesus came to die to save our souls from the eternal death to come which all men deserve without the Grace of God. This Grace comes from Jesus who became the sacrifice and the Chief Priest.. Which means repentance and turning away from ones sins and living a live in Jesus.
The reason why Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah is because of self-righteousness and pride. It’s the same reason why the Pharisees rejected him during His time on earth. If they knew how spiritually depraved they are, they would understand their need for Jesus and trust in Him. The problem is that they are spiritually blind because of their pride. They believe they are good enough save themselves.
DR Brown; Rabbi Skobac claims on one of his videos that in Isaiah53;8 where it says”for the transgressions of My people He was stricken” that the word He is really they in the tanack’s Hebrew.Could there be any truth to this? One would think that all Hebrew scholars could be
agreed on this linguistic point.
originally I gave the wrong email address.The right email address is email@example.com
Dr Brown;In one of Rabbi Skobac’s videos he said that in Isaiah53vs8 where it says “for the transgressions of My people He was stricken” that the
Hebrew word is “we” not “He”.Could he be correct? It would seem all Hebrew scholars should know the difference between the words “he” and “we” in the Hebrew scrolls.
Dr. Brown, can you please stop!
We are all tired already.
Rabbi Freitag and Rabbi Singer showed you that, you have taken scriptures out of context but, you didn’t want to accept it.
We are not stupid and we know Hebrew better than you probably do.
You yourself shut yourself on the foot when at the end of your debate with Rabbi Freitag called Jesus Ado-ai.
Rabbi Mizrachi gave you good questions, we are still waiting for the GOOD answer. Yes, you answer what you wanted people to hear. Show us the Hebrew scriptures from the Torah not, what you want people to hear.
By the way, you have a doctorate don’t you? So, stop using Sid Roth as your puppy. He acts like a clown, and always cut people off because, he doesn’t want people to know the truth. Rabbi Singer yet did great job although you had your puppy.
Two more things:
1)G-d will speak clearly from the less knowledgeable Jew to the most knowledgeable Jew. If someone with a doctorate comes to try to explain us about G-d than, we know it’s not G-ds words. We don’t need someone with doctorate to talk about G-d.
2)You read Talmud, didn’t you?
Have you read about Jesus there? it’s not hidden.
Do you know who Pandira or Panthera is?
I made screen shoots of my comments to you and made a copy, in case if you deny to reply.
Jew to Jew, Return to G-d the creator, it’s not too late. There is no need to focus on Messiah now.
If you are right we will know. But ask yourself, what if you were wrong?
By the way, I live 10-15 minutes from Rabbi Freitag. I will share that with him although I know, he doesn’t really care.
Actually, Rabbi Freitag did not provide one verse that Dr. Brown took out of context and Rabbi Singer had refused to debate Dr. Brown for the last 25 years. That alone should tell you something.
Dr. Brown has answered Rabbi Mizrachi’s answers in depth in writing, but Rabbi Mizrachi refused to read them, even when Dr. Brown offers to send him the books for free. He also refuses to debate him. Rabbi Mizrachi is running from Dr. Brown!
Dr. Brown is quite aware of what the Talmud says about Jesus, and it is shameful.
He invites you to call his radio show one Thursday to raise your points. Dr. Brown will gladly answer you directly and clearly. He is praying for your repentance.
I am just going to talk about Rabbi Freitag debate with Dr. Brown today otherwise, we could spend here for month.
With all my respect to you, you must be ignorant not to see that, Dr Brown haven’t take a verse out of context at the debate with Rabbi Freitag. You may want to look at the debate again between them. It’s available in Youtube.
How about you read Jeremiah 31 verse 33? Rabbi Freitag read it twice but, Dr. Brown refuse to accept it. Would you be so kind and subscribe it here?
Like I said in my previous message, don’t assume we are stupid, we probably know Hebrew better than Dr. Brown does.
You can convince a lot of ignorant American Jews, but you can’t convince us.
Unfortunately for you, all this will subside one day. As you can see, since 2011 only 3 posts were posted here. Two in 2014 and mine (in six years) People lost interest.
How about Isaiah 53:6 that, Dr. Brown mentioned at the end of the debate (Rabbi Freitag may have not catch that). Who are we talking about? Jesus? It is written Yod, key, vav, key in the Tanah. Do you know what Yod, key, vav, key is?
Is Je–ho—va (lamdeni chochecha) Jesus?
So wait, I am confused.
1) Who is Jesus? G-d, Messiah or an atonement?
2) Do you know what an atonement is? How effective it is? What we must do to make an atonement effective?
Believe me, 95% of Christian today don’t have a strong understanding for what an atonement is. I explained it to many Christian that, never thought of it that way.
3) Where in the Torah it is said that, G-d will provide so called “His Son” to die, and give up his blood as sacrifice for our sins? In first person, unambiguously.
4) Where in the Torah it is said that, the coming Messiah will give us his blood as sacrifice for our sin?
5) Is David, G-d’s grand father?
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