If it is in our hearts it is not to hard for us. It is not grievous.
Deuteronomy 6 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Jeremiah 31 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1 John 5 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
So, you see that real faith totally overcomes the world. It keeps YHWH’s commandments. Commandment keeping is proof of real love for YHWH and His children.
Colossians 2 does not say, “don’t let the word of YHWH be your final word on what to eat or drink.” It says, “Let no man judge you.”
That we are no longer under the law does not mean that it does not tell us what sin is. It means that our past offences are pardoned. We do not have to pay the penalty for repented of sins.
1 John 3 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Romans 3 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
1 John 1 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
To be continued:
Continued from above:
When we repent of sin…transgression of the law…He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Sin is transgression of the law and all unrighteousness is sin. The law tells us what is sin. The law cannot save us, it can only tell us that we are acting righteously or not.
1 John 5 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
2 Timothy 3 16 All scripture (This was the Law and Prophets at that time) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
James 1 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
It is the engrafted word (Law written on our hearts) that saves our souls, not the law on stone. When we go to YHWH’s perfect law we need to repent of our short comings or we will begin to think that breaking the law is not wrong. His law is perfect. It converts/renews our minds/souls to know what is righteous and holy…if we subject our minds to it.
Psalm 19 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. 12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Romans 12 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 8 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Shalom
Bo, It is your belief system that is poisonous. See how you twist my interpretation just like you twist the bible’s interpretation.
I’m going to stick to what the Spirit of the living God is leading and guiding me. If your way was correct the Lord would give me a peace inside of me.
Onward Christian soldier. That means this topic is now finished on my end.
Just 1 more comment I can not leave untouched. WE are grafted in because of Salvation. Jesus came to save the house of Israel, but His own rejected Him. So the Lord grafted in the gentiles. To save us. To give us an opportunity of Salvation. We not not grafted in too become Jewish, but to receive the Lord’s Mercy and Grace.
Hence John 3:16
Debbie Fraser,
My point was that I quoted many passages of scripture and basically let it speak for itself, with just a few comments of my own to bring out what it is saying, and you call that poison. You have not shown how the passages that I have brought up say anything different than what I suggest. Let’s try one for the fun of it.
What does this passage mean, if it does not mean what it says?
Matthew 5 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Shalom
Keep in mind….Jesus said everything in Matthew 5:17-19 before the Cross.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 that He came to fulfil the law.
Fulfil means…to emphasize that the Scriptures point to him as Messiah and are fulfilled in his salvation work.
In Matthew 5:18 there was 613 laws given to the Jewish people. Jesus said one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, “TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. Here is the Revelation…Jesus FULFILLED” the Law. It is finished it is fulfilled. The “Till” has taken place in Jesus. Keep in mine Jesus did not die on the cross for our sins as He was speaking that in Matthew 5. The law was clearly in effect full force before the death and Resurrection of Jesus.
Matthew 5:19 Refers to the commandments He has given in Matthew 5:17-18. In vs 19 Jesus said if you break one of these least commandments, (not laws). Again the Commandments He WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS IN VS 17-18.
Bottom Line..Jesus said the law needs to be fulfilled. Well He did fulfilled it. That is why He said on the cross IT IS FINISHED!!!
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Bo, I am praying you received the revelation of what I posted. Give glory to the Lord for He has guided me every step of the way of this understanding.
my, my, my!!!!
Debbie Fraser,
What are the commandments in vs. 17-18? I do not see any commandments given in 17 & 18 except, “Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets.” So I guess that we are commanded not to think such a thing, if you can call that a commandment.
Please list the commandments that Messiah gave in 17-18. I do not understand why the commandments are not the small pieces of the whole law and prophets. What do you see is the difference between a commandment and a law?
Shalom
Also which is the least of the commandments, that if we do not do and teach them, which will relegate us to least in the kingdom?
That is why Paul said in
Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Jesus died for us because we can not keep the law. He said that one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. Well seeing that it is now FULFILLED, we are FREE.
Does this gives us a licence to sin now?
Romans 6:1-4 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
When Jesus speaks to us…You should take that as a commandment and not as advice.
In Matthew 5- 7 the Sermon on the Mount were the commandments Jesus was talking about. Referring to Matthew 5:19
In Matthew 5:27-32 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Divorce
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Jesus changes the commandments that Moses gave.
I guess you can call the “NEW LAW” that we are all obligated to follow are in Matthew 5-7.
Debbie,
If you want, you can look at all the other places in Matthew where the same word for “fulfill” or “fill-up” (Greek: πληρόω) to see how it is used.
As these verses will show, “fulfill” does not mean “to keep” (as it seems Bo would have us believe); but instead it means “to bring to apex and completion”.
Take care, Tom
P.S. I miss interacting here too, but many other things have come up, so I’m limited for now. Hope you are well.
“For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John…” – Matt 11:13
And what of after John? Well, after John it came time for the fulfillment of those prophesies.
That’s why Jesus says that he did not come to break apart the Law and the Prophets – how could He, when they testified of Him? (John 5:39) Instead he came to fulfill them all, as Matthew shows so well (see references above).
Tom, Full circling this. Completing and confirming the word “fulfill”. Wow. What a breakthrough, what truth, what a revelation. When Bo asked that question, my brain was stumped for a bit. Then the layers of fear came off of me and the Lord revealed to me the facts. Thank you Jesus. When we are weak, He is strong. Words of the day…“fulfill” and “New Laws”. Matthew 5-7 is a good study tool.
Blessings Tom.
Ok guys, He said not one jot or tittle will pass from the law and the prophets until ALL was fulfilled. Well, He has not fulfilled the second coming. At the time He was speaking He had not even began gathering the outcasts of Israel and returning them to their land. The list goes on and on. The law and the prophets is in place until all be fulfilled. This is why Paul could tell Timothy:
2 Timothy 3 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The only scripture that existed in those days was the Law and the Prophets. And it was still in force to instruct us in righteous living, as far as Paul was concerned.
That Messiah fulfilled some things is obvious. That He fulfilled everything that was written, is obviously not the case.
So what did He fulfill? The gospels tell us many prophecies that He did fulfill. There is a for sure thing that He did not fulfill…the elements have not melted with a fervent heat. The old earth is still here. The new heavens and earth are not fulfilled yet. He has not ruled and reigned for a thousand years yet. His enemies have not been made his footstool yet. On and On the list goes. When all is fulfilled, then and only then, will there be a possibility of a jot or tittle passing from the law.
As far as the law and prophets prophesying until John, it is true. John was the forerunner of Messiah and the beginning of the prophecies about Messiah being fulfilled. There are still many prophecies that are not fulfilled. So the prophecies in the law and the prophets are almost fulfilled. Once they are fulfilled they are ended in the sense that they are now history instead of prophecy. These individual prophecies are ended in that sense only. They end when they are no longer prophecies.
As far as the statutes and commandments and such in the law and the prophets…they cannot be fulfilled in the sense that the prophecies can. Just because someone didn’t murder for their whole life does not mean that the commandment is fulfilled and therefore ended. We still need to fulfill that command. Thus Paul writes:
Romans 8 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
If we walk in the spirit we fulfill the law of not murdering, not stealing, etc. If we are carnally minded we cannot subject ourselves to YHWH’s law. Well Sabbath keeping and no coveting are on the same list of 10. Coveting is desiring something that is not ours to have. Unclean animals are on the list of things that YHWH said that we are not to have for food.
Messiah did not change the law of adultery. He simply applied the 10th commandment to the 4th. The 10th says not to covet our neighbors wife. Messiah simply says that when we break the 10th in this way we are guilty of the 4th. No change. We are guilty in our hearts of the 4th by being guilty of the 10th. He did not say that we have broken the 4th physically by breaking the 10th. Now that would have been changing the law.
This is the same that He does with the other commandments. He simply states the way it is on the spiritual level. He cancels no law. He changes no law.
If there is a new law in the sermon on the mount, why no mention of abstaining from blood and things strangled? Why at the end does he say that those that habitually break the Fathers commandments will be cast out of the kingdom? There is no new law. The new covenant states very specifically what law will be written on our hearts. The very same one that was written on stone. The Father’s commandments.
Hebrews 8 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
His law is perfect according to James and the Psalmist. No need of change. What needed changing was us…our hearts…our thinking. Laws on stone can never do this. Only laws on our hearts can do this. His laws remain the same. Paul told Timothy to use those very laws to be instructed in righteousness. If we love YHWH’s laws we will want to do it. So when we read it we do not find it hard or grievous. We look into the mirror of YHWH’s perfect law and adjust ourselves accordingly. At least that is what those that have entered the new covenant do. Those that are still in the old covenant continue to not love YHWH’s law and cannot do it.
James 1 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
1 John 3 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
As you can see, sin is still the transgression of the law. Those that look at what the law says and cannot or will not keep it are deceived. Those that think that righteous people do not have to keep torah are deceived. He who does righteousness is the one that is righteous. He how continues in sin, which John says is transgression of the law, is of the devil.
It is a true test of where our hearts really are. If we love YHWH’s law and can keep it, we are walking in the new covenant. If we can find excuses as to why we do not have to keep it, we are not walking in the new covenant. Do not continue to be a hearer of the law only. Become a doer.
Romans 2 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
John, James and Paul all say the same thing. The doers of the law are the ones that are really righteous. It is not the doing that makes one righteous. It is that really being made righteous causes us to do keep the law.
Shalom
Nor has one stroke passed from the Law and the Prophets. Obviously, we still have the Old Testament.
However, just because no stroke has passed does not mean we are still under Mosaic law. Remember, Abraham was commanded by God to go to Canaan – but there’s no way anyone would make a case for us being under that law. Moses was commanded to build a tabernacle – but there’s no way anyone would make a case that we should do so. Jonah was commanded to go to Nineveh – but I see no mass migration taking place of people going there. Why? Because we’re not Abraham, we’re not Moses, we’re not Jonah. Likewise, we’re not Old Covenant Israelites either, so making a case that we should obey the law is completely based on false pretenses.
As to the assertion that God’s commands “never change”: it is patently false in light of Genesis 22, where God “commands” Abraham to kill Isaac, then “commands” Abraham to not kill Isaac. God never changes, and God’s word never changes; however, it is not correct to conclude from this that certain instructions cannot be changed as needed.
Perfect example of how Christ has given us a better way:
In the OT, it was the law that if a man died and left his widow childless his brother must raise up children through her in his name. There were several reasons for this (not least of which being that it kept the land in the family – a very important thing in a land-centered society), but one of the most fundamental was to provide for the woman in her old age. In that day very few men would marry a widow without some sort of compulsion, after all. Therefore it was crucial that a woman have children to look after her well being in her later years – because no one else would.
In the New Covenant, if a woman is widowed, it is the Church that cares for her and provides for her needs (1 Tim 5:16). And thus she has no need of children through her brother-in-law.
This is certainly a better way than tempting a woman’s heart to jealousy when her husband must sleep with his dead brother’s widow – don’t you think?
Tom,
Your arguments are straw men to the max. Deal with what Paul’s statements of “Certainly not!” in Romans mean. No twisting allowed 🙂 The Sabbath was made long before YHWH spoke it from Mt. Sinai. YHWH’s people were expected to know about it and keep it at least as far back as:
Exodus 16 28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
It is one of the Big 10, but it existed since creation, and it was made for man not for the Jews.
Here are Paul’s clarifying statements that obviously show that he was not trying to say that the law is not for us.
Romans 3:31 3 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Romans 6:1-2 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
Romans 6:15-16 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Romans 7:12-13a 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not!
Galatians 3:21a Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!
What part of “Certainly not!” do we not understand?
We can see from the qualifying statements above that what ever Paul was trying to say in Romans and Galatians, he was not trying to say to ignore the law or that the new covenant exempted us from obedience to YHWH’s previous instructions.
He was definitely saying that we would not know what sin was except that the law specified it. He was definitely saying that grace and faith did not give us permission to sin (break the law). He was definitely saying that the law is not sin or (nor is it sin to keep it) or death, but that it is righteous, just and good. He was definitely saying that when we yield ourselves sevants to obey YHWH’s law it is unto righteousness and if we yield to sin, which is the transgression of the law, it is unto death. He is definitely saying that faith causes us to establish YHWH’s law. He is definitely saying that we should not live any longer in sin (transgression of the law).
These things are definite. They are emphasized as clarifying statements by Paul so that we would not misunderstand him to be saying something contrary to YHWH’s perfect law. Whatever Paul meant in Romans and Galatians, he did not mean to set YHWH’s law aside as obsolete or old. These “Certainly not!” statements of his should give us a clue as to who has twisted his words from their true intent.
What part of “Certainly not!” do we not understand?
Shabbat Shalom
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Bo,
I’ll not be drawn into debate, I’ve spoken what I had to speak. If you can’t see how completely the word refutes your position, especially after all of our dialogue in the past, nothing I can say would matter.
In passing, I note how strange it is that every time the subject of the Mosaic law is raised on this program, not 24 hours go by before we see you posting under that heading – other wise we don’t see you so much. You seem drawn to the topic like a moth to flame, and that is deeply concerning to me.
Take care, Tom
OUT with the OLD, IN with the NEW
Why do you suppose the OT is called the “OLD” Testament? Why do you suppose the NT is called the “NEW” Testament?
In the OT they had sacrificed animals for our sins. They had the law of Moses. They had the prophets preparing us for the Messiah
In the NT the Lord Jesus substituted the animal sacrifice for our sins permanently. Jesus replaced the teachings of Moses withe His NEW teachings in the book of Matthew chapters 5-7. Jesus is the Messiah.
Out with the OLD, in with the NEW.
Again we need to be obedient to what Jesus says. I said that from the beginning and I’ll continue to stick by it. Jesus fulfilled the law by dying on the cross. He is not going to be fulfill it in the 2ND coming. That completely does not make sense. Jesus is coming back to separate the sheep from the goat. He is coming back as a lion. He is coming back for Judgment.
Bo… you have a religious spirit, you have a familiar spirit and you have the spirit of pride. All 3 of those spirit are preventing you from seeing the truth about the message of the word of God. You need to ask the Lord to remove those spirits from you. Ask Him to give you new spiritual eyes.
It is time to move onwards to the Truth. Be obedient to Jesus’s teaching. Read Matthew 5-7. That is the new laws. Again…out with the OLD, in with the NEW.
I’m not here to judge you but to sincerely help you.
That is why it is called The “OLD” Testament. That is why it is called the “NEW” testament.
Right, Debbie.
And note too that Matthew, the same one who records the “not one jot or tittle… until all be fulfilled” also records the temple curtain being torn in two. According to the OT Law, that temple curtain was a command of God. If Bo was correct, then that curtain should have remained in place forever (or at least until Jesus’ second coming) – because that is where God had commanded it to be.
Tom,
Funny isn’t it, that the titles “Old Testament” and “New Testament” are not in the inspired writings. They are titles and false delineations instituted by man. No apostle or prophet gathered the former scriptures and the latter scriptures and classified them as old and new. No Hebrew or Greek manuscript would indicate that this is correct.
Not one jot or tittle has passed from the law or prophets. It still tells us what is sin and what is righteousnes. It still tells what is holy and unclean.
The curtain in the temple being rent has nothing to do with the part we are to fulfill. We are talking about righteousness and holiness that is delineated in the scripture. I said nothing about the curtain. I simply state what Y’shua and Paul stated. That you have no answers is evident.
Paul basically wants us to be sure that we do not understand him to be saying that the law is obsolete. He says it over and over in the strongest language. A paraphrase of Paul goes something like this:
Paul: Whatever you think that I am saying, I am not saying that grace or faith voids the law, or that we can continue to sin, which is the transgression of the law. I am not saying that the law is sin. I am not saying anything against the perfect, holy, just and good law of YHWH. So whatever you get out or my letter to the Romans, do not by any means think that Y’shua changed the law. Do not get that it is void. But please do get that we will establish the law and fulfill it by walking in the Spirit. Please do get that if we have carnal minds we will not like the law or keep it or even be able to subject ourselves to it.
Taken together, what do these passages mean?
Romans 7 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Romans 6:1-2 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
I’ll give you the answer…or rather John will:
1 John 3 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The law tells us what is sin. And we should not continue to sin (violate the law) once we have accepted YHWH’s grace. 2+2=4 If we violate the law, we sin. Grace does not change this, it gives us a fresh start. It gives us a fresh start every time we repent of sin. And sin is still the transgression of the law. If we do not repent, we do not get the benefits of grace. If we do not think that breaking the law is sin, we do not repent.
Shalom
Debbie Fraser,
You wrote: “Bo… you have a religious spirit, you have a familiar spirit and you have the spirit of pride. All 3 of those spirit are preventing you from seeing the truth about the message of the word of God. You need to ask the Lord to remove those spirits from you. Ask Him to give you new spiritual eyes.”
Dr. Brown would rebuke me if I said the same of you. You evidentally do not actually read the scriptures I post. Neither do you deal with them in your responses. Give it a try. Show me how the things that I quote out of Romans backs up your position.
Shalom,
If the curtain being torn meant that we are not to take to heart the words of God’s prophets, then Jesus and the apostles would not have quoted from them. Paul would not have written: 2 Timothy 3:14-20: “But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” What else did Paul mean by “all Scripture” but the so-called “Old Testament.”
Much of our attitudes today stem from the early Church, which became proveably anti-Semitic, guilty of the very thing Paul warned against. At the Council of Laodicea in 363/364, Canon 29 reads: “CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”
The full force of law (secular and religious as one in those days) was applied to those willing to be martryed rather than divorce themselves from the fourth commandment, as supported by the Holy Hebrew Scriptures. I’ve researched the Catholic (early Church) explanation of how the Sabbath was “abolished,” read all the NT Scriptures which they quote, and brothers and sisters, I was appalled at the “scripture twisting” I found. None of the Scriptures they quote support their audacity in changing the seventh day to the first. But those same scriptures are quoted over and over by the present day Church to justify various forms of lawlessless.
The Holy Spirit once told me to read AlL of Paul before I made up my mind about him. At one time, I had a negative opinion, based on my unfamiliarity (ignorance of) all but a few verses. I did and realized that Paul is definitely one of the most misunderstood of all of God’s New Testament emissaries. So often those verses which would balance out his statements are ignored, and only a few given prominence. But the whole of Paul’s writing is necessary to understand his intentions.
When he wrote that we are not under the supervision of the Law, he meant that we are under the supervision of the Holy Spirit, to which we have a more direct access through faith in Jesus the Messiah, Yeshua, and all that He accomplished through His shed blood on the Cross. That is certainly NEW. His atonement means there is no longer a heavy curtain separating us from the Holy of Holies. If we approach in faith and genuine repentance, we can be made clean through His imputed righteousness. This does not mean we can throw out His commandments. When Jesus said ‘if you love me, you’ll keep my commandments,’ I do believe He meant “commandments” afterall. http://bible.cc/john/14-15.htm
The Holy Spirit enables us to keep them in spirit and in truth, not with an outward religiosity so as to be seen by others and thought good, but with the conscious knowledge that we do so before Our Father, who sees in secret. Jesus clarified the Law, and rebuked those teachers who had added to it, teaching for doctrine mere commandments of men. That was the same thing the early Church did, as a matter of history, proving that many early Christians were no better at following the Lord than were the rabbinate to whom they felt superior.
And so the Church separated itself more and more from its roots, doing the very thing Paul warned of: Romans 11:17-18: “If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.”
We are justified by the same ingredient (if you will) by which Abraham and the prophets, and even the harlot Rahab was: faith. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, there are “essentials” for salvation, and there are nonessentials for salvation. Anything we do, we must do in good conscience, not biting and devouring each other, but out of our faith, always remembering we have only One judge before whom we stand or fall, and praying for one another, out of love.
The early Church’s traditions have so brainwashed us and we think “so many centuries of teaching can’t be wrong.” But the truth is that the early Church got many things gravely wrong, and the result of these falsehoods have not made Israel jealous at all, but have led to great sorrow and death. The time has come to foist off the false traditions of the early Church fathers, to read our Bibles more thoroughly than ever, to search out all the Scriptures diligently and prayerfully, not lazily depending on others to interpret them for us, and not mindlessly mouthing what we’ve heard over and over. (The whole truth, not a few verses taken from context.)
Respectfully,
Ruth,
If the curtain being torn meant that we are not to take to heart the words of God’s prophets, then Jesus and the apostles would not have quoted from them.
Again and again, we do listen to the words of God’s prophets. As mentioned above, they testify of Christ and are inseparable from Him.
But you know what? Those same prophets say:
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.” – Jeremiah 31:31-32
Look, if words have any meaning at all, the prophets themselves testify to what I have been saying.
Take it or leave it, but that’s a fact.
I agree with the Scriptures, Tom, but not always with how they are applied, that’s all. I was not thinking specifically of you, by the way, when I wrote, or of anyone, actually, only of the same themes which we are dealing with more and more these days, in this present age.
Yes, Israel broke the original covenant, but the Lord God is still faithful, and we know from the prophets that after His anger abates toward His unfaithful wife, He redeems her at last. He redeems her with a new covenant, inaugerated not with the blood of bulls, but by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus. This act of redemption by Him is becoming more and more apparent to us these days as we see more and more of His people coming to faith in Jesus [Yeshua]. But the hidden work of God has been going on for much longer than is apparent to us now.
My problem is with those traditions from the early Church which we’ve inherited that have brainwashed us into believing certain things which are not truly Scriptural at all. The New Testament writings do not sanction the lawlessless that the Church is guilty of today.
Tom,
You left out a certain part of the prophets statement. I wonder why!
Jeremiah 31 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
An He will write His law upon our hearts. “This is the covenant” He says…” that I will put my law in their heart.” Receive the new covenant Tom. Stop fighting it. Let YHWH write His law in you heart, instead of resisting the Holy Spirit.
Shalom
Take it or leave it Tom. The prophets words have meaning. They meant exactly what he said. He obviously did not mean any other law than the one he was very used to calling YHWH’s law.
Shalom
The Center of The Law in The New Covenant Is Jesus Christ. The Mosaic Law And The Prophets Speak of Christ The Old Testament Scriptures bear witness of Christ. “You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me.” John 5:39
Moses wrote of Christ. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote of Me.” John 5:46
The New Covenant Law Centers On The Teachings of Christ. Matthew 5-7 in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus teaches as the new Lawgiver. He repeatedly stated, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’: but I say to you, that every one who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28
Christ’s teachings are a foundation of Rock for those who hear and act upon His words. Matthew 7:24-27
In the Great Commission Christ tells His disciples to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. Matthew 28:19-20
The New Covenant Law Centers On The Example of Christ in His Suffering, Death, Burial, And Resurrection For Our Salvation. The Incarnation Was God’s Fullest Revelation of Himself to Mankind.
Jesus said…. Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.
Its all about Jesus. Being obedient and following Jesus forever and ever.
AMEN
The Church Is Always in Danger of Going Back to The Law of Moses Instead of Forward to The Law of Christ.
Only Those Who Have Been Forgiven Much By Jesus Christ Can Enter Into A Understanding of The Law of Christ Written in Our Heart By The Holy Spirit.
PAUL LOVE CHRIST MUCH BECAUSE HE REALIZED THE DEPTH OF HIS SIN. “It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 1 Timothy 1:15 Paul Values Knowing Christ Above All Things.
Only Those Who Know And Value Christ As Did Paul Will Allow The Holy Spirit to Conform Them into the Image of Jesus Christ.
Thank you Bo for asking me to interpret the meaning of Matthew 5:17-19.
I am more convinced then ever to Follow the Law of Christ. Again move forward. Trust Jesus and what He says. He is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.
Debbie Fraser,
Your welcome. I just wish you would read what it says instead of imagining things about it. “Think not that I have come to abolish the law” means what it says. Your interpretation has Messiah effectively, if not literally, abolishing the law.
Matthew 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Our righteousness does not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees if we continue to void the law through our so called “faith.” Our righteousness does not exceed theirs if we continue to embrace the traditions and doctrines of men that causes us to transgress YHWH’s law.
Matthew 15 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Our worship has become vain and we are hypocrites when we say with our mouths that Y’shua did not abolish the law, but continue to break it. He either abolished it or He didn’t. If He did, then He lied and is the antiMessiah. If He didn’t, then we need to act like it if we are His followers.
The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent. Stop braking YHWH’s perfect law. Stop relaxing His commandments. Let’s stop deceiving ourselves by reading it and never putting it into practice. We need to wake up from our dream land of fairy tales. Real grace and faith empowers us to love and keep YHWH’s law.
Shalom
The law of Messiah is the same as His Father’s law. The Father and Son are one. They do not contradict each other. The Son only says what He hears the Father speak. The Spirit leads us into all truth. The Father’s word is truth. Man is to live by EVERY word of YHWH. Real love fulfills the law. The law is the revelation of what love looks like on a practical level. Messiah is the Word of YHWH made flesh. He did not brake, or teach us to brake, even the smallest law. If He did, He is not the greatest in the kingdom. If He did, He is not the spotless lamb.
Shalom
“Its all about Jesus.” – Debbie Fraser
Jesus obeyed the Law, and you think the Law should be tossed away. Did Jesus not want us to learn from him and do as he did? I do not see any sense in the anti-Law view.
Juan… At the time Jesus had to obey the Law, He didn’t die on the cross yet, He hadn’t fulfilled the Law yet. How come you guys are not getting this? It is so obvious. Now Jesus enhanced the Law. Matthew 5-7.
Bo… I tell you the Lord used you big time to show me clearly all this. You have no idea how thrilled and excited I am. 🙂 I’m truly sorry you don’t see it. Jesus is the NEW LAW. Jesus basically took the Law of Moses and made it sticker then the Law of Moses. But in order to make it easy on following Jesus’s teachings, Jesus told us to do this.. LOVE. Its all about love. Love sums up the teachings of Jesus. Jesus is love. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is AWESOME!!
I pray you will get this. Read and study Matthew 5-7. Jesus said WE NEED TO TEACH OTHERS HIS COMMANDMENTS TO OTHERS. The Kingdom of God is here.
typo…Jesus basically took the Law of Moses and made it sticker.
Delete then the Law of Moses.
stricter
This is so silly…Let me correct this statement. This is what I meant to write.
Jesus made His new teachings(New Law) stricter then the Law of Moses.
I get so excited I mess up on my posts.
“How come you guys are not getting this?” – Debbie Fraser
The truth is I am still not completely sure who is right but I lean towards the view Bo presents. In practice I do what I can understand to be practical and important. (e.g. there are some facets of the Law that seem random to me.)
“You have no idea how thrilled and excited I am.” – Debbie Fraser
No, I am happier and more excited. It seems like when you say things like this you are trying to provoke people. It would be like when a football player scored a touchdown and celebrated too excessively. This is known as unsportsmanlike conduct.
I do agree with your view that Jesus enhanced the Law. I hope you will begin applying these enhancements to your comments to Bo and others.
I am excited. And you can not try to take this away from me. Its called loving revelation. Loving the Lord.
This is why I never want to interact with you Juan because you are not too nice. Wondering where your joy is?
Regardless of how you are to me. The Lord fed me, I wanted to share this. I am so HAPPY!!!!
Debbie Fraser,
I see nothing stricter in Messiah’s teaching. I see restatements of certain commandments and applications of one law to another. Check this out.
Deuteronomy 6 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Leviticus 19 13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. 14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD. 15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. 16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. 19 Ye shall keep my statutes.
The above quotes are the 2 greatest commandments with a little context. Y’shua quotes these to a people that know that context. He does not remove them from the context. As you can see there are smaller commandments that are being summed up by these two, not eliminated by these two.
Love for YHWH includes “all the commandments that Moses commanded that day” and that “all the commandments should be on our hearts.” Love for our neighbors include not only the few verses that I have printed above, but many, many others in the surrounding context. Please note that love for our neighbor causes us to not suffer sin upon him. This means that if we see our neighbor breaking any commandment, we should make him aware of it so that he can repent.
Mark 12 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
No commandment greater than these does not mean that there are no other applicable commandments.
Matthew 22 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets does not mean that the other commandments are abolished or unimportant. It means that all the others are reliant on these two and that all the others fit into these two categories.
So John puts it this way:
1 John 3 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
If we do not keep all the commandments we are not loving YHWH or our neighbor fully because those smaller commandments are the details of loving YHWH and our neighbor. Here is how we know that we are loving them…we keep YHWH’s commandments.
James says this:
James 2 1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons… 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James says the same thing as Leviticus 19. Respect of persons is breaking the law. It is the opposite of loving our neighbor. The perfect law of liberty is YHWH’s law. It includes the 10 commandments. It includes the 2 greatest commandments. It includes all the little commandments. When we break one we are transgressors of the whole law. The 2 or the 10 cannot be removed from the perfect law of liberty, because it is perfect. If we try to segregate any part of it, it becomes imperfect. The parts we take out become imperfect.
James 1 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
To be continued:
Continued from above:
This is also what Paul says.
Romans 2 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
When YHWH’s law is written on our hearts, we keep it. When we love YHWH and our neighbor, we keep YHWH’s law. When we love YHWH, we love his law. We deceive ourselves when we hear/read the law and fail to keep it. This is why the word must be engrafted/written on our hearts. When we meekly agree that YHWH’s law is righteous, just and good, and we accept it as his instruction about how to live righteously instead of walking away unchanged, we will be blessed. When we love it we keep it. This is the new covenant that YHWH makes with us…”His perfect law written on our hearts and minds.”
Psalm 19 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. 12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
We cannot see our secret faults. This is one reason why we need YHWH’s perfect law of liberty. It frees us when we repent. If we do not confess our sin we will not prosper. So we need YHWH’s perfect law to tell us when we sin. We can choose to be “blessed in our deed” or to not prosper. It all comes down to meekly letting YHWH’s word speak into our lives and repenting of not doing things His way.
Proverbs 28 13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Sin is the transgression of the law. Paul, John and James all say so. We will not be blessed if we continue in sin.
Revelation 22 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
It is a lie that the YHWH’s law is not for us to keep. Do you love this lie? Those that keep His commandments will get to enter the city and eat from the tree of life. Not because they kept YHWH’s commandments, but because keeping the commandments is the proof of us entering the new covenant. It is the proof that we love YHWH and our neighbor. It is the proof that we have changed hearts.
Do not be deceived.
1 John 3 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
If we have the hope of seeing Him as He is, we will purify ourselves by lining our lives up with His commandments. Transgressing them is sin. Keeping them is living righteously. We do not need to be deceived. If we keep them, we are children of YHWH. If we transgress them we are children of the devil. If we keep them, we love our bother and YHWH. If not, we don’t.
Shalom
Lord, It is your turn now.
Good stuff Debbie! I agree so much with what you wrote!!
Yes, you’re right that it’s up to the Lord – as Paul said, to this day when they read the Law a veil remains over their eyes.
DO NOT let them drag you down or make you doubt your commitment to Jesus – he has bought you and you are His completely. As He said, His sheep know his voice and follow Him – and it is clear to me that following Him you are!
You are right, Jesus expanded the law in the sermon on the mount. In so doing, he showed how impossible it is for us sinners to keep “one jot or tittle” – hence, the reason we need his grace.
DO NOT let them trouble you with clever-sounding lies that seem to have the truth but inwardly reek of death.
But my words to you could never be as good as Paul’s:
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion is not from him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. But if I, brothers, still preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves! Galatians 5:1-12
And remember too, what the Apostles said in Acts 15:
The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions…
These people have no authority to tell you how to love Christ. They did not get it from the Apostles, they did not get it from the elders, they did NOT get it from Christ.
Keep doing what you’re doing, Debbie, and stay in the light.
The rest can keep the darkness, though we pray that they be delivered from it even as they seek to drag us in too.
In Christ, Tom
Your a good guy Tom. Thank you. You really walk the walk.
Blessings
Tom,
You quote: “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”
This is Paul’s point in the passage you quote.
But what if we are not seeking to be justified by the law? What if we are seeking to be well pleasing to the one that has justified us?
What if the scripture plainly says that those that are justified/righteous do righteousness? What if the it plainly says that only those that keep YHWH’s commandments get to enter the city and partake of the tree of life? What if it plainly says that the the law is not nullified by faith? What if it plainly says that the transgression of the law is sin? What if it says that those that are dead to sin should not live any longer therein? What if it plainly says that if we serve sin (transgression of the law) we get death and if we yield to obedience it is unto righteousness?
I could go on and on. The point is that the passage you quote above does not negate these other things that Paul and the other apostles said. But of course you do not want to deal with these other passages.
The problem, Tom, is that you promise liberty but you are still in bondage to sin (transgression of the law). It is not the law of YHWH that brings bondage, it is transgression of the law that brings bondage.
It is because of transgression that we need grace. Grace does not negate the law. It empowers us to keep it. It appears that you think that one can break YHWH’s perfect law and still be considered righteous. Paul thinks otherwise. The perfect law of liberty is against your teaching.
2 Peter 2 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
I thnk that you have turned from the holy commandment. “Be ye holy for I am holy” is in the context of what we eat, what sabbath we keep, and other precepts in the law. I think that you are in bondage to sin (transgression of the law.) It appears that you can’t stop because your mind is carnal… that you cannot subject your mind to YHWH’s law..that your mind fights Him. It looks like His law is not written on your heart.
Romans 8 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
I think that you have rejected the new covenant that writes his law on our hearts. Remember, you left that part out when you quoted Jeremiah. I still wonder why.
Do you not see the absurdity of believing that the law is righteous, just and good, but also think that it is sin to keep the law? Well that us what you are saying that Paul believed. But what Paul believed is that it was wrong to try to attain righteousness by keeping the law.
Why do you not address the scriptures that I quote directly? The ones I quote are quite plain. Maybe that’s why.
And to be quite plain we are not preaching circumcision. We preach circumcision of the heart. Just like Paul.
Romans 2 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
A circumcised heart keeps the law.
Deuteronomy 30 6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
Heart circumcision results in obedience to YHWH’s commandments. It is so obvious that a child reading it could understand. But blindness has happened unto some, so that when they read the law they think that it is a bad thing instead of righteous, just and good…like Paul thought.
In all of this, I do not judge you as lost. Only YHWH knows that. But because I attempt to love my neighbor as myself, I warn you that you are in danger. Your teaching leads to transgression of the law…sin. Continuing in sin is lawlessness. Lawlessness will ultimately lead to Messiah saying, “depart from me.” There is time to repent. Please do, as the kingdom of heaven is at hand and at stake.
Continued from above:
If it is in our hearts it is not to hard for us. It is not grievous.
Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Jeremiah 31
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
So, you see that real faith totally overcomes the world. It keeps YHWH’s commandments. Commandment keeping is proof of real love for YHWH and His children.
Colossians 2 does not say, “don’t let the word of YHWH be your final word on what to eat or drink.” It says, “Let no man judge you.”
That we are no longer under the law does not mean that it does not tell us what sin is. It means that our past offences are pardoned. We do not have to pay the penalty for repented of sins.
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Romans 3
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
To be continued:
Continued from above:
When we repent of sin…transgression of the law…He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Sin is transgression of the law and all unrighteousness is sin. The law tells us what is sin. The law cannot save us, it can only tell us that we are acting righteously or not.
1 John 5
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture (This was the Law and Prophets at that time) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
James 1
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
It is the engrafted word (Law written on our hearts) that saves our souls, not the law on stone. When we go to YHWH’s perfect law we need to repent of our short comings or we will begin to think that breaking the law is not wrong. His law is perfect. It converts/renews our minds/souls to know what is righteous and holy…if we subject our minds to it.
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Romans 12
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Shalom
Bo,
It is your belief system that is poisonous. See how you twist my interpretation just like you twist the bible’s interpretation.
I’m going to stick to what the Spirit of the living God is leading and guiding me. If your way was correct the Lord would give me a peace inside of me.
Onward Christian soldier. That means this topic is now finished on my end.
Just 1 more comment I can not leave untouched. WE are grafted in because of Salvation. Jesus came to save the house of Israel, but His own rejected Him. So the Lord grafted in the gentiles. To save us. To give us an opportunity of Salvation. We not not grafted in too become Jewish, but to receive the Lord’s Mercy and Grace.
Hence John 3:16
Debbie Fraser,
My point was that I quoted many passages of scripture and basically let it speak for itself, with just a few comments of my own to bring out what it is saying, and you call that poison. You have not shown how the passages that I have brought up say anything different than what I suggest. Let’s try one for the fun of it.
What does this passage mean, if it does not mean what it says?
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Shalom
Keep in mind….Jesus said everything in Matthew 5:17-19 before the Cross.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 that He came to fulfil the law.
Fulfil means…to emphasize that the Scriptures point to him as Messiah and are fulfilled in his salvation work.
In Matthew 5:18 there was 613 laws given to the Jewish people. Jesus said one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, “TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. Here is the Revelation…Jesus FULFILLED” the Law. It is finished it is fulfilled. The “Till” has taken place in Jesus. Keep in mine Jesus did not die on the cross for our sins as He was speaking that in Matthew 5. The law was clearly in effect full force before the death and Resurrection of Jesus.
Matthew 5:19 Refers to the commandments He has given in Matthew 5:17-18. In vs 19 Jesus said if you break one of these least commandments, (not laws). Again the Commandments He WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS IN VS 17-18.
Bottom Line..Jesus said the law needs to be fulfilled. Well He did fulfilled it. That is why He said on the cross IT IS FINISHED!!!
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Bo,
I am praying you received the revelation of what I posted. Give glory to the Lord for He has guided me every step of the way of this understanding.
my, my, my!!!!
Debbie Fraser,
What are the commandments in vs. 17-18? I do not see any commandments given in 17 & 18 except, “Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets.” So I guess that we are commanded not to think such a thing, if you can call that a commandment.
Please list the commandments that Messiah gave in 17-18. I do not understand why the commandments are not the small pieces of the whole law and prophets. What do you see is the difference between a commandment and a law?
Shalom
Also which is the least of the commandments, that if we do not do and teach them, which will relegate us to least in the kingdom?
That is why Paul said in
Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Jesus died for us because we can not keep the law. He said that one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. Well seeing that it is now FULFILLED, we are FREE.
Does this gives us a licence to sin now?
Romans 6:1-4
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
When Jesus speaks to us…You should take that as a commandment and not as advice.
In Matthew 5- 7 the Sermon on the Mount were the commandments Jesus was talking about. Referring to Matthew 5:19
In Matthew 5:27-32
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Jesus changes the commandments that Moses gave.
I guess you can call the “NEW LAW” that we are all obligated to follow are in Matthew 5-7.
Debbie,
If you want, you can look at all the other places in Matthew where the same word for “fulfill” or “fill-up” (Greek: πληρόω) to see how it is used.
Matt 1:22
2:15
2:17
2:23
3:15
4:15
8:17
12:17
13:14
13:45
21:4
23:32
26:54
26:56
27:9
As these verses will show, “fulfill” does not mean “to keep” (as it seems Bo would have us believe); but instead it means “to bring to apex and completion”.
Take care,
Tom
P.S. I miss interacting here too, but many other things have come up, so I’m limited for now. Hope you are well.
“For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John…” – Matt 11:13
And what of after John? Well, after John it came time for the fulfillment of those prophesies.
That’s why Jesus says that he did not come to break apart the Law and the Prophets – how could He, when they testified of Him? (John 5:39) Instead he came to fulfill them all, as Matthew shows so well (see references above).
Tom,
Full circling this. Completing and confirming the word “fulfill”. Wow. What a breakthrough, what truth, what a revelation. When Bo asked that question, my brain was stumped for a bit. Then the layers of fear came off of me and the Lord revealed to me the facts. Thank you Jesus. When we are weak, He is strong. Words of the day…“fulfill” and “New Laws”. Matthew 5-7 is a good study tool.
Blessings Tom.
Ok guys, He said not one jot or tittle will pass from the law and the prophets until ALL was fulfilled. Well, He has not fulfilled the second coming. At the time He was speaking He had not even began gathering the outcasts of Israel and returning them to their land. The list goes on and on. The law and the prophets is in place until all be fulfilled. This is why Paul could tell Timothy:
2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The only scripture that existed in those days was the Law and the Prophets. And it was still in force to instruct us in righteous living, as far as Paul was concerned.
That Messiah fulfilled some things is obvious. That He fulfilled everything that was written, is obviously not the case.
So what did He fulfill? The gospels tell us many prophecies that He did fulfill. There is a for sure thing that He did not fulfill…the elements have not melted with a fervent heat. The old earth is still here. The new heavens and earth are not fulfilled yet. He has not ruled and reigned for a thousand years yet. His enemies have not been made his footstool yet. On and On the list goes. When all is fulfilled, then and only then, will there be a possibility of a jot or tittle passing from the law.
As far as the law and prophets prophesying until John, it is true. John was the forerunner of Messiah and the beginning of the prophecies about Messiah being fulfilled. There are still many prophecies that are not fulfilled. So the prophecies in the law and the prophets are almost fulfilled. Once they are fulfilled they are ended in the sense that they are now history instead of prophecy. These individual prophecies are ended in that sense only. They end when they are no longer prophecies.
As far as the statutes and commandments and such in the law and the prophets…they cannot be fulfilled in the sense that the prophecies can. Just because someone didn’t murder for their whole life does not mean that the commandment is fulfilled and therefore ended. We still need to fulfill that command. Thus Paul writes:
Romans 8
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
If we walk in the spirit we fulfill the law of not murdering, not stealing, etc. If we are carnally minded we cannot subject ourselves to YHWH’s law. Well Sabbath keeping and no coveting are on the same list of 10. Coveting is desiring something that is not ours to have. Unclean animals are on the list of things that YHWH said that we are not to have for food.
Messiah did not change the law of adultery. He simply applied the 10th commandment to the 4th. The 10th says not to covet our neighbors wife. Messiah simply says that when we break the 10th in this way we are guilty of the 4th. No change. We are guilty in our hearts of the 4th by being guilty of the 10th. He did not say that we have broken the 4th physically by breaking the 10th. Now that would have been changing the law.
This is the same that He does with the other commandments. He simply states the way it is on the spiritual level. He cancels no law. He changes no law.
If there is a new law in the sermon on the mount, why no mention of abstaining from blood and things strangled? Why at the end does he say that those that habitually break the Fathers commandments will be cast out of the kingdom? There is no new law. The new covenant states very specifically what law will be written on our hearts. The very same one that was written on stone. The Father’s commandments.
Hebrews 8
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
His law is perfect according to James and the Psalmist. No need of change. What needed changing was us…our hearts…our thinking. Laws on stone can never do this. Only laws on our hearts can do this. His laws remain the same. Paul told Timothy to use those very laws to be instructed in righteousness. If we love YHWH’s laws we will want to do it. So when we read it we do not find it hard or grievous. We look into the mirror of YHWH’s perfect law and adjust ourselves accordingly. At least that is what those that have entered the new covenant do. Those that are still in the old covenant continue to not love YHWH’s law and cannot do it.
James 1
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
As you can see, sin is still the transgression of the law. Those that look at what the law says and cannot or will not keep it are deceived. Those that think that righteous people do not have to keep torah are deceived. He who does righteousness is the one that is righteous. He how continues in sin, which John says is transgression of the law, is of the devil.
It is a true test of where our hearts really are. If we love YHWH’s law and can keep it, we are walking in the new covenant. If we can find excuses as to why we do not have to keep it, we are not walking in the new covenant. Do not continue to be a hearer of the law only. Become a doer.
Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
John, James and Paul all say the same thing. The doers of the law are the ones that are really righteous. It is not the doing that makes one righteous. It is that really being made righteous causes us to do keep the law.
Shalom
Nor has one stroke passed from the Law and the Prophets. Obviously, we still have the Old Testament.
However, just because no stroke has passed does not mean we are still under Mosaic law. Remember, Abraham was commanded by God to go to Canaan – but there’s no way anyone would make a case for us being under that law. Moses was commanded to build a tabernacle – but there’s no way anyone would make a case that we should do so. Jonah was commanded to go to Nineveh – but I see no mass migration taking place of people going there. Why? Because we’re not Abraham, we’re not Moses, we’re not Jonah. Likewise, we’re not Old Covenant Israelites either, so making a case that we should obey the law is completely based on false pretenses.
As to the assertion that God’s commands “never change”: it is patently false in light of Genesis 22, where God “commands” Abraham to kill Isaac, then “commands” Abraham to not kill Isaac. God never changes, and God’s word never changes; however, it is not correct to conclude from this that certain instructions cannot be changed as needed.
Perfect example of how Christ has given us a better way:
In the OT, it was the law that if a man died and left his widow childless his brother must raise up children through her in his name. There were several reasons for this (not least of which being that it kept the land in the family – a very important thing in a land-centered society), but one of the most fundamental was to provide for the woman in her old age. In that day very few men would marry a widow without some sort of compulsion, after all. Therefore it was crucial that a woman have children to look after her well being in her later years – because no one else would.
In the New Covenant, if a woman is widowed, it is the Church that cares for her and provides for her needs (1 Tim 5:16). And thus she has no need of children through her brother-in-law.
This is certainly a better way than tempting a woman’s heart to jealousy when her husband must sleep with his dead brother’s widow – don’t you think?
Tom,
Your arguments are straw men to the max. Deal with what Paul’s statements of “Certainly not!” in Romans mean. No twisting allowed 🙂 The Sabbath was made long before YHWH spoke it from Mt. Sinai. YHWH’s people were expected to know about it and keep it at least as far back as:
Exodus 16
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
It is one of the Big 10, but it existed since creation, and it was made for man not for the Jews.
Here are Paul’s clarifying statements that obviously show that he was not trying to say that the law is not for us.
Romans 3:31
3 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
Romans 6:15-16 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Romans 7:12-13a
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not!
Galatians 3:21a Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!
What part of “Certainly not!” do we not understand?
We can see from the qualifying statements above that what ever Paul was trying to say in Romans and Galatians, he was not trying to say to ignore the law or that the new covenant exempted us from obedience to YHWH’s previous instructions.
He was definitely saying that we would not know what sin was except that the law specified it. He was definitely saying that grace and faith did not give us permission to sin (break the law). He was definitely saying that the law is not sin or (nor is it sin to keep it) or death, but that it is righteous, just and good. He was definitely saying that when we yield ourselves sevants to obey YHWH’s law it is unto righteousness and if we yield to sin, which is the transgression of the law, it is unto death. He is definitely saying that faith causes us to establish YHWH’s law. He is definitely saying that we should not live any longer in sin (transgression of the law).
These things are definite. They are emphasized as clarifying statements by Paul so that we would not misunderstand him to be saying something contrary to YHWH’s perfect law. Whatever Paul meant in Romans and Galatians, he did not mean to set YHWH’s law aside as obsolete or old. These “Certainly not!” statements of his should give us a clue as to who has twisted his words from their true intent.
What part of “Certainly not!” do we not understand?
Shabbat Shalom
🙂
🙂
🙂
Bo,
I’ll not be drawn into debate, I’ve spoken what I had to speak. If you can’t see how completely the word refutes your position, especially after all of our dialogue in the past, nothing I can say would matter.
In passing, I note how strange it is that every time the subject of the Mosaic law is raised on this program, not 24 hours go by before we see you posting under that heading – other wise we don’t see you so much. You seem drawn to the topic like a moth to flame, and that is deeply concerning to me.
Take care,
Tom
OUT with the OLD, IN with the NEW
Why do you suppose the OT is called the “OLD” Testament?
Why do you suppose the NT is called the “NEW” Testament?
In the OT they had sacrificed animals for our sins. They had the law of Moses. They had the prophets preparing us for the Messiah
In the NT the Lord Jesus substituted the animal sacrifice for our sins permanently.
Jesus replaced the teachings of Moses withe His NEW teachings in the book of Matthew chapters 5-7. Jesus is the Messiah.
Out with the OLD, in with the NEW.
Again we need to be obedient to what Jesus says. I said that from the beginning and I’ll continue to stick by it. Jesus fulfilled the law by dying on the cross. He is not going to be fulfill it in the 2ND coming. That completely does not make sense. Jesus is coming back to separate the sheep from the goat. He is coming back as a lion. He is coming back for Judgment.
Bo…
you have a religious spirit, you have a familiar spirit and you have the spirit of pride. All 3 of those spirit are preventing you from seeing the truth about the message of the word of God. You need to ask the Lord to remove those spirits from you. Ask Him to give you new spiritual eyes.
It is time to move onwards to the Truth. Be obedient to Jesus’s teaching. Read Matthew 5-7. That is the new laws. Again…out with the OLD, in with the NEW.
I’m not here to judge you but to sincerely help you.
That is why it is called The “OLD” Testament. That is why it is called the “NEW” testament.
Right, Debbie.
And note too that Matthew, the same one who records the “not one jot or tittle… until all be fulfilled” also records the temple curtain being torn in two. According to the OT Law, that temple curtain was a command of God. If Bo was correct, then that curtain should have remained in place forever (or at least until Jesus’ second coming) – because that is where God had commanded it to be.
Tom,
Funny isn’t it, that the titles “Old Testament” and “New Testament” are not in the inspired writings. They are titles and false delineations instituted by man. No apostle or prophet gathered the former scriptures and the latter scriptures and classified them as old and new. No Hebrew or Greek manuscript would indicate that this is correct.
Not one jot or tittle has passed from the law or prophets. It still tells us what is sin and what is righteousnes. It still tells what is holy and unclean.
The curtain in the temple being rent has nothing to do with the part we are to fulfill. We are talking about righteousness and holiness that is delineated in the scripture. I said nothing about the curtain. I simply state what Y’shua and Paul stated. That you have no answers is evident.
Paul basically wants us to be sure that we do not understand him to be saying that the law is obsolete. He says it over and over in the strongest language. A paraphrase of Paul goes something like this:
Paul: Whatever you think that I am saying, I am not saying that grace or faith voids the law, or that we can continue to sin, which is the transgression of the law. I am not saying that the law is sin. I am not saying anything against the perfect, holy, just and good law of YHWH. So whatever you get out or my letter to the Romans, do not by any means think that Y’shua changed the law. Do not get that it is void. But please do get that we will establish the law and fulfill it by walking in the Spirit. Please do get that if we have carnal minds we will not like the law or keep it or even be able to subject ourselves to it.
Taken together, what do these passages mean?
Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
I’ll give you the answer…or rather John will:
1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The law tells us what is sin. And we should not continue to sin (violate the law) once we have accepted YHWH’s grace. 2+2=4 If we violate the law, we sin. Grace does not change this, it gives us a fresh start. It gives us a fresh start every time we repent of sin. And sin is still the transgression of the law. If we do not repent, we do not get the benefits of grace. If we do not think that breaking the law is sin, we do not repent.
Shalom
Debbie Fraser,
You wrote:
“Bo…
you have a religious spirit, you have a familiar spirit and you have the spirit of pride. All 3 of those spirit are preventing you from seeing the truth about the message of the word of God. You need to ask the Lord to remove those spirits from you. Ask Him to give you new spiritual eyes.”
Dr. Brown would rebuke me if I said the same of you. You evidentally do not actually read the scriptures I post. Neither do you deal with them in your responses. Give it a try. Show me how the things that I quote out of Romans backs up your position.
Shalom,
If the curtain being torn meant that we are not to take to heart the words of God’s prophets, then Jesus and the apostles would not have quoted from them. Paul would not have written:
2 Timothy 3:14-20: “But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” What else did Paul mean by “all Scripture” but the so-called “Old Testament.”
Much of our attitudes today stem from the early Church, which became proveably anti-Semitic, guilty of the very thing Paul warned against. At the Council of Laodicea in 363/364, Canon 29 reads: “CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”
The full force of law (secular and religious as one in those days) was applied to those willing to be martryed rather than divorce themselves from the fourth commandment, as supported by the Holy Hebrew Scriptures. I’ve researched the Catholic (early Church) explanation of how the Sabbath was “abolished,” read all the NT Scriptures which they quote, and brothers and sisters, I was appalled at the “scripture twisting” I found. None of the Scriptures they quote support their audacity in changing the seventh day to the first. But those same scriptures are quoted over and over by the present day Church to justify various forms of lawlessless.
The Holy Spirit once told me to read AlL of Paul before I made up my mind about him. At one time, I had a negative opinion, based on my unfamiliarity (ignorance of) all but a few verses. I did and realized that Paul is definitely one of the most misunderstood of all of God’s New Testament emissaries. So often those verses which would balance out his statements are ignored, and only a few given prominence. But the whole of Paul’s writing is necessary to understand his intentions.
When he wrote that we are not under the supervision of the Law, he meant that we are under the supervision of the Holy Spirit, to which we have a more direct access through faith in Jesus the Messiah, Yeshua, and all that He accomplished through His shed blood on the Cross. That is certainly NEW. His atonement means there is no longer a heavy curtain separating us from the Holy of Holies. If we approach in faith and genuine repentance, we can be made clean through His imputed righteousness. This does not mean we can throw out His commandments. When Jesus said ‘if you love me, you’ll keep my commandments,’ I do believe He meant “commandments” afterall. http://bible.cc/john/14-15.htm
The Holy Spirit enables us to keep them in spirit and in truth, not with an outward religiosity so as to be seen by others and thought good, but with the conscious knowledge that we do so before Our Father, who sees in secret. Jesus clarified the Law, and rebuked those teachers who had added to it, teaching for doctrine mere commandments of men. That was the same thing the early Church did, as a matter of history, proving that many early Christians were no better at following the Lord than were the rabbinate to whom they felt superior.
And so the Church separated itself more and more from its roots, doing the very thing Paul warned of: Romans 11:17-18: “If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.”
We are justified by the same ingredient (if you will) by which Abraham and the prophets, and even the harlot Rahab was: faith. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, there are “essentials” for salvation, and there are nonessentials for salvation. Anything we do, we must do in good conscience, not biting and devouring each other, but out of our faith, always remembering we have only One judge before whom we stand or fall, and praying for one another, out of love.
The early Church’s traditions have so brainwashed us and we think “so many centuries of teaching can’t be wrong.” But the truth is that the early Church got many things gravely wrong, and the result of these falsehoods have not made Israel jealous at all, but have led to great sorrow and death. The time has come to foist off the false traditions of the early Church fathers, to read our Bibles more thoroughly than ever, to search out all the Scriptures diligently and prayerfully, not lazily depending on others to interpret them for us, and not mindlessly mouthing what we’ve heard over and over. (The whole truth, not a few verses taken from context.)
Respectfully,
Ruth,
Again and again, we do listen to the words of God’s prophets. As mentioned above, they testify of Christ and are inseparable from Him.
But you know what? Those same prophets say:
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.”
– Jeremiah 31:31-32
Look, if words have any meaning at all, the prophets themselves testify to what I have been saying.
Take it or leave it, but that’s a fact.
I agree with the Scriptures, Tom, but not always with how they are applied, that’s all. I was not thinking specifically of you, by the way, when I wrote, or of anyone, actually, only of the same themes which we are dealing with more and more these days, in this present age.
Yes, Israel broke the original covenant, but the Lord God is still faithful, and we know from the prophets that after His anger abates toward His unfaithful wife, He redeems her at last. He redeems her with a new covenant, inaugerated not with the blood of bulls, but by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus. This act of redemption by Him is becoming more and more apparent to us these days as we see more and more of His people coming to faith in Jesus [Yeshua]. But the hidden work of God has been going on for much longer than is apparent to us now.
My problem is with those traditions from the early Church which we’ve inherited that have brainwashed us into believing certain things which are not truly Scriptural at all. The New Testament writings do not sanction the lawlessless that the Church is guilty of today.
Tom,
You left out a certain part of the prophets statement. I wonder why!
Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
An He will write His law upon our hearts. “This is the covenant” He says…” that I will put my law in their heart.” Receive the new covenant Tom. Stop fighting it. Let YHWH write His law in you heart, instead of resisting the Holy Spirit.
Shalom
Take it or leave it Tom. The prophets words have meaning. They meant exactly what he said. He obviously did not mean any other law than the one he was very used to calling YHWH’s law.
Shalom
The Center of The Law in The New Covenant Is Jesus Christ.
The Mosaic Law And The Prophets Speak of Christ
The Old Testament Scriptures bear witness of Christ. “You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me.” John 5:39
Moses wrote of Christ. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote of Me.” John 5:46
The New Covenant Law Centers On The Teachings of Christ.
Matthew 5-7 in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus teaches as the new Lawgiver. He repeatedly stated, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’: but I say to you, that every one who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28
Christ’s teachings are a foundation of Rock for those who hear and act upon His words. Matthew 7:24-27
In the Great Commission Christ tells His disciples to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. Matthew 28:19-20
The New Covenant Law Centers On The Example of
Christ in His Suffering, Death, Burial, And Resurrection For Our Salvation. The Incarnation Was God’s Fullest Revelation of Himself to Mankind.
Jesus said…. Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.
Its all about Jesus. Being obedient and following Jesus forever and ever.
AMEN
The Church Is Always in Danger of Going Back to The Law of Moses Instead of Forward to The Law of Christ.
Only Those Who Have Been Forgiven Much By Jesus Christ Can Enter Into A Understanding of The Law of Christ Written in Our Heart By The Holy Spirit.
PAUL LOVE CHRIST MUCH BECAUSE HE REALIZED THE DEPTH OF HIS SIN. “It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 1 Timothy 1:15
Paul Values Knowing Christ Above All Things.
Only Those Who Know And Value Christ As Did Paul Will Allow The Holy Spirit to Conform Them into the Image of Jesus Christ.
Thank you Bo for asking me to interpret the meaning of Matthew 5:17-19.
I am more convinced then ever to Follow the Law of Christ. Again move forward. Trust Jesus and what He says. He is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.
Debbie Fraser,
Your welcome. I just wish you would read what it says instead of imagining things about it. “Think not that I have come to abolish the law” means what it says. Your interpretation has Messiah effectively, if not literally, abolishing the law.
Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Our righteousness does not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees if we continue to void the law through our so called “faith.” Our righteousness does not exceed theirs if we continue to embrace the traditions and doctrines of men that causes us to transgress YHWH’s law.
Matthew 15
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Our worship has become vain and we are hypocrites when we say with our mouths that Y’shua did not abolish the law, but continue to break it. He either abolished it or He didn’t. If He did, then He lied and is the antiMessiah. If He didn’t, then we need to act like it if we are His followers.
The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent. Stop braking YHWH’s perfect law. Stop relaxing His commandments. Let’s stop deceiving ourselves by reading it and never putting it into practice. We need to wake up from our dream land of fairy tales. Real grace and faith empowers us to love and keep YHWH’s law.
Shalom
The law of Messiah is the same as His Father’s law. The Father and Son are one. They do not contradict each other. The Son only says what He hears the Father speak. The Spirit leads us into all truth. The Father’s word is truth. Man is to live by EVERY word of YHWH. Real love fulfills the law. The law is the revelation of what love looks like on a practical level. Messiah is the Word of YHWH made flesh. He did not brake, or teach us to brake, even the smallest law. If He did, He is not the greatest in the kingdom. If He did, He is not the spotless lamb.
Shalom
“Its all about Jesus.” – Debbie Fraser
Jesus obeyed the Law, and you think the Law should be tossed away. Did Jesus not want us to learn from him and do as he did? I do not see any sense in the anti-Law view.
Juan…
At the time Jesus had to obey the Law, He didn’t die on the cross yet, He hadn’t fulfilled the Law yet. How come you guys are not getting this? It is so obvious. Now Jesus enhanced the Law. Matthew 5-7.
Bo…
I tell you the Lord used you big time to show me clearly all this. You have no idea how thrilled and excited I am. 🙂 I’m truly sorry you don’t see it. Jesus is the NEW LAW. Jesus basically took the Law of Moses and made it sticker then the Law of Moses.
But in order to make it easy on following Jesus’s teachings, Jesus told us to do this.. LOVE. Its all about love. Love sums up the teachings of Jesus. Jesus is love. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is AWESOME!!
I pray you will get this. Read and study Matthew 5-7. Jesus said WE NEED TO TEACH OTHERS HIS COMMANDMENTS TO OTHERS. The Kingdom of God is here.
typo…Jesus basically took the Law of Moses and made it sticker.
Delete then the Law of Moses.
stricter
This is so silly…Let me correct this statement. This is what I meant to write.
Jesus made His new teachings(New Law) stricter then the Law of Moses.
I get so excited I mess up on my posts.
“How come you guys are not getting this?” – Debbie Fraser
The truth is I am still not completely sure who is right but I lean towards the view Bo presents. In practice I do what I can understand to be practical and important. (e.g. there are some facets of the Law that seem random to me.)
“You have no idea how thrilled and excited I am.” – Debbie Fraser
No, I am happier and more excited.
It seems like when you say things like this you are trying to provoke people. It would be like when a football player scored a touchdown and celebrated too excessively. This is known as unsportsmanlike conduct.
I do agree with your view that Jesus enhanced the Law. I hope you will begin applying these enhancements to your comments to Bo and others.
I am excited. And you can not try to take this away from me. Its called loving revelation. Loving the Lord.
This is why I never want to interact with you Juan because you are not too nice. Wondering where your joy is?
Regardless of how you are to me. The Lord fed me, I wanted to share this. I am so HAPPY!!!!
Debbie Fraser,
I see nothing stricter in Messiah’s teaching. I see restatements of certain commandments and applications of one law to another. Check this out.
Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Leviticus 19
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
19 Ye shall keep my statutes.
The above quotes are the 2 greatest commandments with a little context. Y’shua quotes these to a people that know that context. He does not remove them from the context. As you can see there are smaller commandments that are being summed up by these two, not eliminated by these two.
Love for YHWH includes “all the commandments that Moses commanded that day” and that “all the commandments should be on our hearts.” Love for our neighbors include not only the few verses that I have printed above, but many, many others in the surrounding context. Please note that love for our neighbor causes us to not suffer sin upon him. This means that if we see our neighbor breaking any commandment, we should make him aware of it so that he can repent.
Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
No commandment greater than these does not mean that there are no other applicable commandments.
Matthew 22
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets does not mean that the other commandments are abolished or unimportant. It means that all the others are reliant on these two and that all the others fit into these two categories.
So John puts it this way:
1 John 3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
If we do not keep all the commandments we are not loving YHWH or our neighbor fully because those smaller commandments are the details of loving YHWH and our neighbor. Here is how we know that we are loving them…we keep YHWH’s commandments.
James says this:
James 2
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons…
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James says the same thing as Leviticus 19. Respect of persons is breaking the law. It is the opposite of loving our neighbor. The perfect law of liberty is YHWH’s law. It includes the 10 commandments. It includes the 2 greatest commandments. It includes all the little commandments. When we break one we are transgressors of the whole law. The 2 or the 10 cannot be removed from the perfect law of liberty, because it is perfect. If we try to segregate any part of it, it becomes imperfect. The parts we take out become imperfect.
James 1
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
To be continued:
Continued from above:
This is also what Paul says.
Romans 2
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
When YHWH’s law is written on our hearts, we keep it. When we love YHWH and our neighbor, we keep YHWH’s law. When we love YHWH, we love his law. We deceive ourselves when we hear/read the law and fail to keep it. This is why the word must be engrafted/written on our hearts. When we meekly agree that YHWH’s law is righteous, just and good, and we accept it as his instruction about how to live righteously instead of walking away unchanged, we will be blessed. When we love it we keep it. This is the new covenant that YHWH makes with us…”His perfect law written on our hearts and minds.”
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
We cannot see our secret faults. This is one reason why we need YHWH’s perfect law of liberty. It frees us when we repent. If we do not confess our sin we will not prosper. So we need YHWH’s perfect law to tell us when we sin. We can choose to be “blessed in our deed” or to not prosper. It all comes down to meekly letting YHWH’s word speak into our lives and repenting of not doing things His way.
Proverbs 28
13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Sin is the transgression of the law. Paul, John and James all say so. We will not be blessed if we continue in sin.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
It is a lie that the YHWH’s law is not for us to keep. Do you love this lie? Those that keep His commandments will get to enter the city and eat from the tree of life. Not because they kept YHWH’s commandments, but because keeping the commandments is the proof of us entering the new covenant. It is the proof that we love YHWH and our neighbor. It is the proof that we have changed hearts.
Do not be deceived.
1 John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
If we have the hope of seeing Him as He is, we will purify ourselves by lining our lives up with His commandments. Transgressing them is sin. Keeping them is living righteously. We do not need to be deceived. If we keep them, we are children of YHWH. If we transgress them we are children of the devil. If we keep them, we love our bother and YHWH. If not, we don’t.
Shalom
Lord,
It is your turn now.
Good stuff Debbie! I agree so much with what you wrote!!
Yes, you’re right that it’s up to the Lord – as Paul said, to this day when they read the Law a veil remains over their eyes.
DO NOT let them drag you down or make you doubt your commitment to Jesus – he has bought you and you are His completely. As He said, His sheep know his voice and follow Him – and it is clear to me that following Him you are!
You are right, Jesus expanded the law in the sermon on the mount. In so doing, he showed how impossible it is for us sinners to keep “one jot or tittle” – hence, the reason we need his grace.
DO NOT let them trouble you with clever-sounding lies that seem to have the truth but inwardly reek of death.
But my words to you could never be as good as Paul’s:
And remember too, what the Apostles said in Acts 15:
These people have no authority to tell you how to love Christ. They did not get it from the Apostles, they did not get it from the elders, they did NOT get it from Christ.
Keep doing what you’re doing, Debbie, and stay in the light.
The rest can keep the darkness, though we pray that they be delivered from it even as they seek to drag us in too.
In Christ,
Tom
Your a good guy Tom. Thank you. You really walk the walk.
Blessings
Tom,
You quote:
“You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”
This is Paul’s point in the passage you quote.
But what if we are not seeking to be justified by the law? What if we are seeking to be well pleasing to the one that has justified us?
What if the scripture plainly says that those that are justified/righteous do righteousness? What if the it plainly says that only those that keep YHWH’s commandments get to enter the city and partake of the tree of life? What if it plainly says that the the law is not nullified by faith? What if it plainly says that the transgression of the law is sin? What if it says that those that are dead to sin should not live any longer therein? What if it plainly says that if we serve sin (transgression of the law) we get death and if we yield to obedience it is unto righteousness?
I could go on and on. The point is that the passage you quote above does not negate these other things that Paul and the other apostles said. But of course you do not want to deal with these other passages.
The problem, Tom, is that you promise liberty but you are still in bondage to sin (transgression of the law). It is not the law of YHWH that brings bondage, it is transgression of the law that brings bondage.
It is because of transgression that we need grace. Grace does not negate the law. It empowers us to keep it. It appears that you think that one can break YHWH’s perfect law and still be considered righteous. Paul thinks otherwise. The perfect law of liberty is against your teaching.
2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
I thnk that you have turned from the holy commandment. “Be ye holy for I am holy” is in the context of what we eat, what sabbath we keep, and other precepts in the law. I think that you are in bondage to sin (transgression of the law.) It appears that you can’t stop because your mind is carnal… that you cannot subject your mind to YHWH’s law..that your mind fights Him. It looks like His law is not written on your heart.
Romans 8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
I think that you have rejected the new covenant that writes his law on our hearts. Remember, you left that part out when you quoted Jeremiah. I still wonder why.
Do you not see the absurdity of believing that the law is righteous, just and good, but also think that it is sin to keep the law? Well that us what you are saying that Paul believed. But what Paul believed is that it was wrong to try to attain righteousness by keeping the law.
Why do you not address the scriptures that I quote directly? The ones I quote are quite plain. Maybe that’s why.
And to be quite plain we are not preaching circumcision. We preach circumcision of the heart. Just like Paul.
Romans 2
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
A circumcised heart keeps the law.
Deuteronomy 30
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
Heart circumcision results in obedience to YHWH’s commandments. It is so obvious that a child reading it could understand. But blindness has happened unto some, so that when they read the law they think that it is a bad thing instead of righteous, just and good…like Paul thought.
In all of this, I do not judge you as lost. Only YHWH knows that. But because I attempt to love my neighbor as myself, I warn you that you are in danger. Your teaching leads to transgression of the law…sin. Continuing in sin is lawlessness. Lawlessness will ultimately lead to Messiah saying, “depart from me.” There is time to repent. Please do, as the kingdom of heaven is at hand and at stake.
Shalom