Hi. Do you think Christians NEED to read the Bible to persevere in salvation? Do you think reading the Bible hinders some peoples’ walk with God (because the TRUE LIGHT is Christ, and our own ‘understanding’ may make us reject Him, as w/ Pharisees.) Why would God make our eternal salvation DEPENDENT on an EXTERNAL source (i.e:bible) “Oldness of letter VS newness Spirit”?
the reason is ask is because i feel so bogged down in “bible” and the Spirit moving me to do things, or speaking to me, commanding me… and i think “i am supposed to listen to the Spirit (the AUTHOR of the Bible)”, but why do people say to read the bible? am i not reading for head-knowledge, if i have the almighty God RIGHT NEXT TO ME, ********telling me His will******** WHY AM I READING TO FIND OUT — is this what Scripture means, “that we should serve Him not in oldness of the letter, but in newness of the Spirit?” Does “we should serve Him” mean “we should obey the Spirit” versus “neglecting the Spirit and trying to find out the will of God from letters on a page” ?
am I seeking to know God’s will from the Spirit or am I seeking to know God’s will from a book????
The Spirit is telling me things, already!!! I didn’t receive a BOOK when I got saved; I received a SPIRIT. Jesus is the Gift; the SPIRIT is the Gift; not the Bible!!!!
BTW 1 time I had a dream (I was really afraid and condemning myself) and God showed me a gift box (wrapped) that He’d given me, and I hadn’t opened it; only looked through a hole in the side of the box… and He was angered (though still joyful and playful) about it… can you PLEASE help me interpret this? I am afraid to not know..
Hi Daniel, God bless you!
I understand where you are coming from, we do serve a LIVING God and Jesus truly is the LIVING Word! We are called to serve in the newness of the Spirit, Amen.. But, let’s check out some scripture as to what exactly Scripture IS and what it’s “for”…
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Lit. God breathed), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(BTW, you can read Peter’s letters specifically 2 Peter chapter 3, he seems to put Paul’s letters into the same category as “scripture” – meaning, according to 2nd Timothy, God inspired and surely the rest of the writers of the New Testament were inspired by God as well)
But that truly does give us a good definition of what the Bible is to be used for “for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”…
Extremely beneficial in our walk with God and it’s amazing to just read the words of Jesus although yes amen we do serve a living God, but remember God speaks to us through and by His Word as well..
As to your dream brother, I haven’t got anything from the Lord on that – maybe God will give someone else the interpretation. I hope you find your answer.
God bless you and may He use you!
(Also, I didn’t get to listen to this show, I really was just replying to Daniel so if this is off topic – I’m sorry and won’t continue off topic anymore.. Just felt in my spirit to reply to this brother)
Thank you very much… but 2 Peter 3:16 also says that Paul’s writings are difficult for untaught and unstable men to understand — so, not just any person is qualified to read them, lest they “wrest them, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
brother can you respond to me in email (thebeautifulight@gmail.com)
Eric, it just seems that in countries where the Bible is NOT, there is so much MORE “being led by the Spirit” (in China, people are led by the Spirit to a place at a particular time, without any of the other individuals knowing, and have a meeting) of grace; and where there is **so much Bible**, the people (by and large) are not UTILIZING the **Spirit-supply/provision**… so they experience less of that grace… in other words, I can’t “lean” in both directions… if i’m leaning to the right (spirit) I cannot lean also to the left (flesh) – which is where the letters of the bible come through (flesh-brain)… is this a valid statement, or no?
I also don’t want to seem unthankful for your words, Eric – thank you for clearing it up somewhat for me.
Daniel,
I believe your dream means the Lord has given you the “gift” of salvation, or more specifically, being made right with Him. Your not fully “opening” the gift but rather inspecting it speaks of a level of doubt as to what he was giving you really is a free gift. The condemnation is what is keeping you from fully receiving the reality of salvation. Throw off the condemnation! Refuse it as the enemy and lie it is. Faith is believing what we do not see. One of the hardest things to believe is that we have been made right with Him in the midst of the process of him conforming us to his image. It’s in this process we are made aware of how depraved we really are…just don’t fall for the temptation to think this is a bad thing, therefore giving into guilt and condemnation.
I believe the sense of anger the Lord had is that we often don’t fully believe and accept the sacrifice of what he has done for us. The true cornerstone of our faith is when we choose to believe we are made right with him despite the ever-apparent reality of our humanity and sinfulness.
Please don’t misinterpret anything I said to mean I think you aren’t saved! I am simply referring to the level of acceptance of the “gift” he has given you.
Daniel, The wrapped gift box God has given you is His son Jesus. He wants you to open the box all the way and receive this gift. The gift of forgiveness. Do not condemn yourself child. Be free.
Romans 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.
As for the topic question. I do not believe it is right to make parents take education classes if their kid is guilty of a crime. Education about crime should be given to the children in a school system. They teach about sex education in school, they should teach the kids about how and why to avoid going to jail.
Let it be noted all moral teaching should come from the home first. But I truly think it is a great idea to teach kids about living clean lifes in school. They should take field trips to prisons instead of the zoo.
Blessings.
Daniel,
I believe you are right in your assessment of countries without a bible often being led more by the Spirit. We do live in a very intellectualized society. I personally wouldn’t equate the bible with the “flesh” side of flesh vs. spirit. Jesus said the words he speaks are “spirit and life”.
The problem comes when we interpret the bible without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. This is when we start living by “the letter”.
It is also interesting to note that believers in other country’s with very limited access to the word hold the bible in much greater esteem than we do. We(free, western culture) often rely on OUR understanding of the word and it becomes an intellectualized, head knowledge kind of thing. I believe we should cherish the word and always approach it as a great gift he has given us(maybe this has something to do with your dream also?)
Also, it becomes a point of reference and if we are faithful and wise by using this gift I believe he will speak to us often through it, bringing things to our rememberance when we need it the most.
Remember, He wasn’t throwing out the bible itself in the new way of the Spirit, but rather the old way of being made right with Him…specifically the written law. Now that we are made right with Him we approach the word as foundation which the Holy Spirit will build upon and interpret for us.
thank you very much… i looked up “gift” in the Bible, and I saw: 1) righteousness 2) Spirit 3) Jesus, Himself 4) eternal life
..was He saying that I doubted my righteousness (which stopped me from going to Him) ??
ty i appreciate it, all
..was He saying that I doubted my righteousness (which stopped me from going to Him) ??
I believe that’s right. We all doubt the righteousness he has given to us at times, especially when we are struggling. 1st corinthians says “He has become for us our righteousness, holiness and sanctification”. This is a real good example of why the bible is important. It will give us the foundation to believe in the goodness of God and all he has done for us.
Wow Daniel, That is amazing how you looked up “gift” and found out it does mean or represesent Jesus. I interpreted your dream by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I love confirmation of truth.
Well, from my own pride, I refused His mercy IN THE SPIRIT… I didn’t need to “learn from the Bible”; I *only* needed to OBEY THE TRUTH/SPIRIT… but because I didn’t want to practice mercy, neither did I want to believe in it… this is sin.
Sin is refusal to walk in the Sprit; sin is NOT “breaking Scripture”.
Praise God – He is the Author of the Bible, and knows the Mind of Christ. It is interesting to note that WATER RETAINS INFORMATION – and it is WATER that Jesus washes us with (the same Water that came out of His side; not letters in a book: water is not in the Bible). To learn more about the IMPLICATIONS of this WATER that came out of Jesus, there is a documentary from which we may derive understanding: “Water, The Great Mystery”.
Examples: 1) “wild” water holds a charge [life] 2) retains information — our spirits’ thoughts are “recorded” on water, wherefore we have “the Mind of Christ” BY that WATER that came out of Jesus [it recorded His Mind]…
etc) many other things are divulged thereon.
I believe the Scripture is good for equipping for every good work, but there is also another verse in Romans 2 (?) that talks about how the Jewish converts tried to “teach” (from the letters) the Gentile converts(who followed the Spirit) about “righteousness”; but Paul said, “you don’t need to teach them; they are under the New Covenant, whereby a man receives God’s words from within. (I will write my laws on their mind and heart) [paraphrase]” and this is probably what “the ingraft Word” is in James 1…
I just really need clarity on this, because there are so many different angles from which to approach this… I can’t (in reality) just do away with the Scripture about how Scripture is good for training in righteousness and equipping for every good work; however, I cannot discard the other Scriptures that tell people to “listen to the Spirit”! “This is My Beloved Son, HEAR HIM!” (gospels) “…the Voice that speaks to us from Heaven” (heb) “Abraham heard and believed” – heard GOD, not read a Bible… “Isaiah saw His Glory” (John) – after SEEING the glory, he WROTE about it… SEEING precluded writing… and SEEING is given to me, today… I must not discard the SEEING/EXPERIENCING for writings that POINT ME TO THE ACTUAL THING…
Then again, all the true teachers I respect read the Bibles continuously and tell others to do the same… Zac Poonen, Justin Cox, Mark Greening, Mike L. Brown, Paul the Apostle (apparently, he asked for ”the parchments” to be brought to him, which, I am assuming, are the “Scriptures”; since that is what “Bible” means.
Daniel,
Even Jesus read and learned the Scriptures backwards and forwards. If anyone “had the Spirit”, it would be Him – yet we find him as a child learning from the scribes in the temple, studying the Scripture diligently.
My friend, if “man does not live on bread alone, but on EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God”, then we do well to immerse ourselves in the study of that very Word given to us in our 66 canonical books of the Bible. Don’t you agree?
-Tom
Yes, and obviously David loved the Scriptures, too — the Psalms are FULL with reference to Scriptural Truth. As it says, “Your statutes have become my songs.”
Daniel, For one who doesn’t want to read the bible, you sure know it pretty well.
Hi. Do you think Christians NEED to read the Bible to persevere in salvation? Do you think reading the Bible hinders some peoples’ walk with God (because the TRUE LIGHT is Christ, and our own ‘understanding’ may make us reject Him, as w/ Pharisees.) Why would God make our eternal salvation DEPENDENT on an EXTERNAL source (i.e:bible) “Oldness of letter VS newness Spirit”?
the reason is ask is because i feel so bogged down in “bible” and the Spirit moving me to do things, or speaking to me, commanding me… and i think “i am supposed to listen to the Spirit (the AUTHOR of the Bible)”, but why do people say to read the bible? am i not reading for head-knowledge, if i have the almighty God RIGHT NEXT TO ME, ********telling me His will******** WHY AM I READING TO FIND OUT — is this what Scripture means, “that we should serve Him not in oldness of the letter, but in newness of the Spirit?”
Does “we should serve Him” mean “we should obey the Spirit” versus “neglecting the Spirit and trying to find out the will of God from letters on a page” ?
am I seeking to know God’s will from the Spirit
or
am I seeking to know God’s will from a book????
The Spirit is telling me things, already!!!
I didn’t receive a BOOK when I got saved; I received a SPIRIT. Jesus is the Gift; the SPIRIT is the Gift; not the Bible!!!!
BTW 1 time I had a dream (I was really afraid and condemning myself) and God showed me a gift box (wrapped) that He’d given me, and I hadn’t opened it; only looked through a hole in the side of the box… and He was angered (though still joyful and playful) about it… can you PLEASE help me interpret this? I am afraid to not know..
Hi Daniel, God bless you!
I understand where you are coming from, we do serve a LIVING God and Jesus truly is the LIVING Word! We are called to serve in the newness of the Spirit, Amen.. But, let’s check out some scripture as to what exactly Scripture IS and what it’s “for”…
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Lit. God breathed), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(BTW, you can read Peter’s letters specifically 2 Peter chapter 3, he seems to put Paul’s letters into the same category as “scripture” – meaning, according to 2nd Timothy, God inspired and surely the rest of the writers of the New Testament were inspired by God as well)
But that truly does give us a good definition of what the Bible is to be used for “for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”…
Extremely beneficial in our walk with God and it’s amazing to just read the words of Jesus although yes amen we do serve a living God, but remember God speaks to us through and by His Word as well..
As to your dream brother, I haven’t got anything from the Lord on that – maybe God will give someone else the interpretation. I hope you find your answer.
God bless you and may He use you!
(Also, I didn’t get to listen to this show, I really was just replying to Daniel so if this is off topic – I’m sorry and won’t continue off topic anymore.. Just felt in my spirit to reply to this brother)
Thank you very much… but 2 Peter 3:16 also says that Paul’s writings are difficult for untaught and unstable men to understand — so, not just any person is qualified to read them, lest they “wrest them, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
brother can you respond to me in email (thebeautifulight@gmail.com)
Eric, it just seems that in countries where the Bible is NOT, there is so much MORE “being led by the Spirit” (in China, people are led by the Spirit to a place at a particular time, without any of the other individuals knowing, and have a meeting) of grace; and where there is **so much Bible**, the people (by and large) are not UTILIZING the **Spirit-supply/provision**… so they experience less of that grace… in other words, I can’t “lean” in both directions… if i’m leaning to the right (spirit) I cannot lean also to the left (flesh) – which is where the letters of the bible come through (flesh-brain)… is this a valid statement, or no?
I also don’t want to seem unthankful for your words, Eric – thank you for clearing it up somewhat for me.
Daniel,
I believe your dream means the Lord has given you the “gift” of salvation, or more specifically, being made right with Him. Your not fully “opening” the gift but rather inspecting it speaks of a level of doubt as to what he was giving you really is a free gift. The condemnation is what is keeping you from fully receiving the reality of salvation. Throw off the condemnation! Refuse it as the enemy and lie it is. Faith is believing what we do not see. One of the hardest things to believe is that we have been made right with Him in the midst of the process of him conforming us to his image. It’s in this process we are made aware of how depraved we really are…just don’t fall for the temptation to think this is a bad thing, therefore giving into guilt and condemnation.
I believe the sense of anger the Lord had is that we often don’t fully believe and accept the sacrifice of what he has done for us. The true cornerstone of our faith is when we choose to believe we are made right with him despite the ever-apparent reality of our humanity and sinfulness.
Please don’t misinterpret anything I said to mean I think you aren’t saved! I am simply referring to the level of acceptance of the “gift” he has given you.
Daniel,
The wrapped gift box God has given you is His son Jesus. He wants you to open the box all the way and receive this gift. The gift of forgiveness.
Do not condemn yourself child. Be free.
Romans 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.
As for the topic question. I do not believe it is right to make parents take education classes if their kid is guilty of a crime. Education about crime should be given to the children in a school system. They teach about sex education in school, they should teach the kids about how and why to avoid going to jail.
Let it be noted all moral teaching should come from the home first. But I truly think it is a great idea to teach kids about living clean lifes in school. They should take field trips to prisons instead of the zoo.
Blessings.
Daniel,
I believe you are right in your assessment of countries without a bible often being led more by the Spirit. We do live in a very intellectualized society. I personally wouldn’t equate the bible with the “flesh” side of flesh vs. spirit. Jesus said the words he speaks are “spirit and life”.
The problem comes when we interpret the bible without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. This is when we start living by “the letter”.
It is also interesting to note that believers in other country’s with very limited access to the word hold the bible in much greater esteem than we do. We(free, western culture) often rely on OUR understanding of the word and it becomes an intellectualized, head knowledge kind of thing. I believe we should cherish the word and always approach it as a great gift he has given us(maybe this has something to do with your dream also?)
Also, it becomes a point of reference and if we are faithful and wise by using this gift I believe he will speak to us often through it, bringing things to our rememberance when we need it the most.
Remember, He wasn’t throwing out the bible itself in the new way of the Spirit, but rather the old way of being made right with Him…specifically the written law. Now that we are made right with Him we approach the word as foundation which the Holy Spirit will build upon and interpret for us.
thank you very much… i looked up “gift” in the Bible, and I saw:
1) righteousness
2) Spirit
3) Jesus, Himself
4) eternal life
..was He saying that I doubted my righteousness (which stopped me from going to Him) ??
ty i appreciate it, all
I believe that’s right. We all doubt the righteousness he has given to us at times, especially when we are struggling. 1st corinthians says “He has become for us our righteousness, holiness and sanctification”. This is a real good example of why the bible is important. It will give us the foundation to believe in the goodness of God and all he has done for us.
Wow Daniel,
That is amazing how you looked up “gift” and found out it does mean or represesent Jesus. I interpreted your dream by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I love confirmation of truth.
Well, from my own pride, I refused His mercy IN THE SPIRIT… I didn’t need to “learn from the Bible”; I *only* needed to OBEY THE TRUTH/SPIRIT… but because I didn’t want to practice mercy, neither did I want to believe in it… this is sin.
Sin is refusal to walk in the Sprit; sin is NOT “breaking Scripture”.
Praise God – He is the Author of the Bible, and knows the Mind of Christ. It is interesting to note that WATER RETAINS INFORMATION – and it is WATER that Jesus washes us with (the same Water that came out of His side; not letters in a book: water is not in the Bible). To learn more about the IMPLICATIONS of this WATER that came out of Jesus, there is a documentary from which we may derive understanding: “Water, The Great Mystery”.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6iwAZU4oHc)
Examples:
1) “wild” water holds a charge [life]
2) retains information — our spirits’ thoughts are “recorded” on water, wherefore we have “the Mind of Christ” BY that WATER that came out of Jesus [it recorded His Mind]…
etc) many other things are divulged thereon.
I believe the Scripture is good for equipping for every good work, but there is also another verse in Romans 2 (?) that talks about how the Jewish converts tried to “teach” (from the letters) the Gentile converts(who followed the Spirit) about “righteousness”; but Paul said, “you don’t need to teach them; they are under the New Covenant, whereby a man receives God’s words from within. (I will write my laws on their mind and heart) [paraphrase]” and this is probably what “the ingraft Word” is in James 1…
I just really need clarity on this, because there are so many different angles from which to approach this… I can’t (in reality) just do away with the Scripture about how Scripture is good for training in righteousness and equipping for every good work; however, I cannot discard the other Scriptures that tell people to “listen to the Spirit”!
“This is My Beloved Son, HEAR HIM!” (gospels)
“…the Voice that speaks to us from Heaven” (heb)
“Abraham heard and believed” – heard GOD, not read a Bible…
“Isaiah saw His Glory” (John) – after SEEING the glory, he WROTE about it… SEEING precluded writing… and SEEING is given to me, today… I must not discard the SEEING/EXPERIENCING for writings that POINT ME TO THE ACTUAL THING…
Then again, all the true teachers I respect read the Bibles continuously and tell others to do the same… Zac Poonen, Justin Cox, Mark Greening, Mike L. Brown, Paul the Apostle (apparently, he asked for ”the parchments” to be brought to him, which, I am assuming, are the “Scriptures”; since that is what “Bible” means.
Daniel,
Even Jesus read and learned the Scriptures backwards and forwards. If anyone “had the Spirit”, it would be Him – yet we find him as a child learning from the scribes in the temple, studying the Scripture diligently.
My friend, if “man does not live on bread alone, but on EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God”, then we do well to immerse ourselves in the study of that very Word given to us in our 66 canonical books of the Bible. Don’t you agree?
-Tom
Yes, and obviously David loved the Scriptures, too — the Psalms are FULL with reference to Scriptural Truth. As it says, “Your statutes have become my songs.”
Daniel,
For one who doesn’t want to read the bible, you sure know it pretty well.
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. 🙂
amen, sister.