Dr. Brown Answers Your Questions

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What are the differences between a Jew, a Hebrew, and an Israeli? Does 1 Cor 13:8 indicate that tongues will cease in this age? And what did Jesus mean when He said one will be taken and one will be left behind? Join Dr. Brown today as he answers your questions! Listen live here from 2-4 pm EST, and call with your questions at (866) 348-7884!

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Dr Brown Debates Rabbi Tovia Singer on Sid Roth’s Radio show “Time is running short”.

Dr Brown and Rabbi Tovia Singer debate on a variety of topics, from the Messianic fulfillments of Yeshua to the core foundations of Christianity and Judaism.

This fascinating debate has a surprise ending!

A Christian Response to Homosexuality: Brown/Knox Debate [DVD] An important debate between Dr. Michael Brown, Director of the Coalition of Conscience, and Mr. Harry Knox, Director of Faith and Religion for the Human Rights Campaign, on the topic of “A Christian Response to Homosexuality.”

Must a President Be Smarter Than A Fifth-Grader? Townhall Article by Dr. Brown

If a man earned poor grades in college, is he fit to be the next president of the United States?

The recent attacks on the intelligence of Texas Governor Rick Perry included the charge that he was dumb and, more bitingly, was like George W. Bush only without the brains. The release of his college transcripts seemed to confirm these accusations. In fact, Frank James, writing on NPR.org, warned, “if you ever enter politics, you may one day think about running for president. And if you do decide to run, your college grades could become an issue, especially if they’re mediocre.” […]

  1. Jabez,

    Give it up.

    One, two, three, four, five, six, seven…over and over again. Do the foolish things confound the wise, or what?

    No time has escaped the view of YHWH or His people.

    I quoted scientists and chronologists greater than yourself. It is settled by scientists and the scripture…the Sabbath has not been lost…just overlooked by those that should know better.


  2. Hey everybody, I suggest that everyone take a step back and let things sit for a while. I’ve noticed that some of the posts are getting a bit emotional and not without some sting — which is really not the goal of this forum. May I also suggest that some here might benefit from taking a little break from posting? If you’re convinced in your heart that some of the positions being taken here are wrong — as I surely am — then take some time to pray for those in error, since it seems that lots of the same ground is gone over time and again, while precious time is being taken from other, important life pursuits.

    I’m not judging anyone’s motives, but I am giving some pastoral input.

  3. Attention!!!

    We know that the Law is good.

    Romans 7
    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    Not doing the good that we know, is sin.

    James 4
    17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    We have sinned and need grace.

    Romans 3
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    We are not supposed to keep sinning because we are under grace.

    Romans 6
    15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    Faith does not negate the law.

    Romans 3
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    If we walk in the Spirit we will be doing what the law says.

    Romans 8
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    If our minds cannot agree to keeping the law we are carnal minded and cannot please YHWH.

    Romans 8
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    If this is the case we are looking into YHWH’s perfect law and going away unconvinced of the truth. We are deceiving ourselves.

    James 1
    22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
    23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
    24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
    25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

    We will continue on this self deception and start deceiving others or we will start living righteously and get persecuted for it.

    2 Timothy 3

    12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
    13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

    If we continue down the wrong road we will be sent strong delusion because we refused the love of the truth and continued to walk in unrighteousness/law breaking.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    So we should work out, not for, our salvation.

    Philippians 2
    12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    To be continued below.

  4. Continued from above.

    For continuing to sin is not a sign of true faith. Sinning wilfully is not covered by grace.

    Hebrews 10
    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    So if we are still breaking YHWH’s law/sinning, we should confess it as sin and repent. Then we can go down the road of being cleansed of unrighteousness/law breaking.

    1 John 1
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Brothers can sin unto death. That is what Hebrews 10 above is about. Unrighteousness is sin.

    1 John 5
    16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
    17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

    Sin is the transgression of the law. Those that continue transgressing are not righteous, no matter what they may believe. If we think they are righteousness, we are deceived by those deceiving themselves.

    1 John 3
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    The quotes above are all new testament. They show the fallacy of ignoring YHWH’s Torah/instructions/law. The sword of the Spirit (the word of YHWH) divides between soul (mind) and spirit..between those that think that they are serving YHWH and those that actually are sering Him.

    Ephesians 6
    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    Hebrews 4
    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    Your actions will show whether you really desire to serve YHWH or if you just think you want to serve Him. The word, when it is proclaimed, lets us know if we are just hearers or if we have real faith. The doers of the word are blessed. The hearers only, are deceived. The demons have enough sense to tremble.

    James 2
    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    The option is up to the reader…will you allow your mind to subject itself to the law of YHWH, or will you resist His will? The man of lawlessness is about to enter the scene. Will you continue in deception and go along with Him, or keep the commandments of YHWH? The end is upon us. Will you endure until the end?

    2 Thessalonians 2
    3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
    4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?
    6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
    8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming.
    9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,
    10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
    11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false,
    12 so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Being forgiven does not excuse us from further transgression of YHWH’s law. Turn around. Stop going down the broad road that leads to destruction. Now is the acceptable day of salvation.


  5. “You don’t understand how someone couldn’t fully grasp what you are saying in a one line statement you posted?” – Dave L.

    No, I thought it was a simple general statement.

    “I wasn’t sure if you were just making a general point or making a case for your viewpoint on this thread and I don’t know what your view is which is why I asked you to expound.” – Dave L.

    It would’ve been a brief, vague case in any event. But, I know that generally people should pursue perfection if they love God (be the brightest light you can be).
    Bonus information:
    Yes, I am interested in the Torah observant Christians and those who actually care about pursuing perfection and doing their best. I’d like to visit them.
    However, I’m not Torah observant or knowledgable, I live in chaos and ignorance somewhat.

    I do attempt to observe the two greatest commandments – and that can be shown in many, many diverse ways. Just doing that has led me far from basically everyone I’ve ever known. The people here who I seem to agree with most are Ruth and Bo. This is the first site of many over the past few years where I’ve found Christians with whom I can agree.

  6. Dr. Brown,

    I just read your post, but, I have been working on some things I hoped would help others understand my position on how I understand the Sabbath. I hope you don’t mind my posting it as it has taken me days, inbetween much travail, to complete it.

    And I got up early specifically to submit it. It does not contain anything offensive.


    Your expositon on the Lord’s emphasis of mercy taking precedence over burdensome and trivial interpretations that were added by the Pharisees and others’s own initiative is exactly what He meant to teach and I agree with you on that. The fact that “The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath”, is further proof that all things were delivered to Him by the Father. He came as sent by the Father to fulfill all righteousness, to bind up those who were bruised, to heal the sick, to gather the outcasts and to proclaim liberty to the captives. The Lord not only judged what was obvious, but, only He can discern the hearts of all men and He laid them bear, much to their indignation. In pointing out that the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath, He was further pointing out that God, in His mercy ordained a rest for us, which will find it’s ultimate fulfillment in the establishment of the Kingdom to come. Man was made to serve in labor and to toil for our sustenance as God had decreed after Adam and Eve’s disobedience separated them from God’s Holy presence. And the Patriarch’s decendents were later to toil in bondage to cruel taskmasters, and in the greater truth, we were all, in like manner, in bondage to sin and under the curse, not only as through Adam, through whom comdemnation passed upon all, but in bondage to the prince of this world and our adversary, who could justly accuse us before the Father, because it is wriiten, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to do them.” Christ has set us free and released us from the curse inherent in the law having spoiled the principalities that held us imprisoned as their captives. So too, the law was not established to provide mercy; just the opposite, it was given to point out the gross divide between the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man, and to meet out judgment for our sins. Mercy and Grace and Truth came by way of Messiah, Jesus. Genesis 2: “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” Hbr 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,'” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. Hbr 4:4 For he has in a certain place spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God has from his.” To say, then, that we cease from our own works, is not saying that we cease doing good, or, that we negate the other commandments which are an extention of the first two as outlined by the Lord, but that out of gratitude and love we now willingly do the works that we learned from Christ. Not that it is a licence to sin, but, that it is freedom to serve the Lord and that there is now no condemnation for those in Christ. “Who will lay anything to the charge of God’s elect, it is God who justifies.” And we should endeavor to understand the depth of the statement that God rested from all His work, and to fully grasp the knowledge that all things created by God were created by Christ, as He and the Father are One. Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.” So, it seems this statement found in the law of Moses is “the” most important commandment it contains. “Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!””

    The ten commandments, the golden pot of manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, were all placed in the Ark of the Covenant, under the Mercy seat. Christ is that true manna which came down from heaven. And as Moses took the blood of the sacrifice and sprinkled the book and altar and the people of the congregation, so, Messiah has sprinkled all these things, covering them with His own blood and consecrating forever those who believe that He has atoned for our sins. And to our joy, we approach Him who occupies the seat of Mercy.

    As made mention in a yonder post, the Gentiles had no tradition of the Sabbath, having no knowledge of the only true God, and they certainly did not have the law of Moses. God’s plan of redemption was hidden, while at the same time all things were finished; that through Christ, Gentiles would become fellow heirs with the decendants of Abraham through “faith” as well as the Jews. This mystery was only revealed after Christ’s work on the cross was finished. God’s will is that none should perish, but, that all would come to repentance. That God had leveled the playing field, so to speak, making faith in Christ the standard for all, He has also brought to fruition the promise made to Abraham, that his decendents would be as many as the stars of heaven and as the sand of the sea, and we see this was accomplished by faith in Messiah, for all mankind, and as the only way to communion once more with God is through Messiah, Jesus. We read in the book of Revelation, that the number of souls will be so great that John was unable to assign a number to them. The Glory of the riches of the Mercy of God is beyond our understanding at present, but, we have the promise of the restoration of His creation to the unadulterated state of His making. Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. 1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
    So, the Lord “resting” on the Sabbath day in the grave, is again saying, that “He has finished His work”. We, who have died to ourselves together with Christ, resting in His finished work, are to now live for Him, waiting on His promise that this sinful flesh which clothes our present bodies will be changed into incorruptible and immortal bodies like His in fulfillment of His resurrection which we will partake of when He comes to redeem us.

    So, perhaps the Sabbath day that we are to keep holy is the day Christ “rested in the grave” for us, that would be honoring the Holy Day of Passover, known as Easter, “not doing our own work, nor, thinking our own thoughts, nor, doing our own pleasure on His day”, but, rejoicing in Him, and truly calling the Sabbath a delight, Holy to the Lord.”

    This is how I understand the Sabbath and keeping it holy, while looking for a more glorious Sabbath to come.

  7. Dr Brown,
    I am sorry. Thanks for caring about us too. Sorry also Bo if I hurt you in any way in my previous post.

    Here is my thing. Bo, I feel like you are saying those who do not keep the Sabbath is sinning against the Lord. Yet I am not feeling convicted by the Holy Spirit by not keeping the Sabbath day.

    Here is an example of what I mean. It is like accusing an innocent person who is in a police line up. Lets say he is accused of being guilty of murder or robbery. Basically being accused of a crime he did not commit. So that that person has a record and has a reputation of being a felon or jailed for something he did not do.

    I feel like those who disagree with you theory of Sabbath Day keeping is basically no different then being a practicing homosexual who believes they are saved and will go to Heaven when they die.

    I feel like you are saying I am living in sin, I think that I am saved but I truly am not because I do not believe in keeping the Sabbath day. Are you saying I will not go to Heaven when I leave this earth because I do not keep the Sabbath day?

  8. Hello brother Jabez — you said, As John states in his first letter, if I say I have no sin, I lie and the truth is not in me….[later he states about pattern sin] if I continue in sin I am none of his. Both remain true.

    I say — You are correct if someone has sin they can’t say they don’t otherwise they continue to sin, but Messiah also talked about that if He would lie that would be sin, so if someone is not sinning, and say they are sinning, then they too would be continuing in sin. So if we let Messiah have His perfect way in our lives we are perfect as our Father is in shamayim(heaven), as He instructed us to be.

  9. I feel that this next post is very important, so I will post it here, the Yah/Lord just showed me this.

    Andrew you wrote, ” whilst having an historical application, ultimately has its fulfillment in the Son of God, Jesus /Yeshua, for Jew and Gentile alike.” That is a good point, it is very true.Good insight too about Paul not having a problem… about Jews carrying out the Torah/Law as long as it was a part of the heart shachah(worship), certainly whatever is really from aman(faith, trust, belief) working by chesed(mercy, love, kindness), and Ahab(love, like) in, to, by, for, through Yeshua/Jesus.Very good point, they caused worship to Yeshua/Jesus. The Yah/Lord yesterday was showing me a truth about the difference between a melek(king) and a kohen(priest) spiritually speaking, still learning more about that even now, Moses was said to be eloheem(god) to Aaron, likewise scr. talks about there will be others that will be as Eloheem(God) and others as David. “In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. Zech. 12:8” The first is about the allpowerful position to be as Eloheem(God), the second is not allpowerful but is still very powerful, and extremely powerful. I think this understand can transfere into what we are talking about, Messiah without relevant Torah customs is as David, and Messiah with relevant Torah customs is as Eloheem(God). Why would it be considered to be that way someone might ask? The answer is because the Jews are still the chosen people, and still have callings, and election, but if they don’t believe then they are enemies unto the good news, yet if they do believe it appears there is extra blessing, the blessing of being as Eloheem(God), the Kingly blessing, the blessing of being like Mosheh/Moses. Let’s consider this Mosheh/Moses was a King, and Priest, even He was from the Levitical Priest tribe, yet He didn’t operate in the priestly office, but He was more of a priest than Aaron was, Mosheh/Moses was a type, and shadow of how the Messiah would be above the Aaronic way of priesthood, yet Mosheh even though above the Aaronic priesthood chose to establish the Aaronic priesthood. When I hear that I say wow.

    I think you are correct it is a private matter of Trust(faith, belief), yet what does Eloheem/God say in the scr.s of Malachi, the scr.s declare right by Elijah to Remember the Torah/Law of Mosheh/Moses, the reason they are placed right next to each other is for us to see the importance of the Torah of Moses, the part it has in the restoration of all things, through the perfect way of Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah. So also this private matter of belief(faith, trust) also through being led by Eloheem/God causes the blessing of Yeshua/Jesus making the Torah/Law of Mosheh/Moses honorable. “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. Yeshayahu/Isaiah 42:21″May I ask you what that means to you?

    Andrew you said, “Tithe is symbolic of first fruits, and so is a Jesus / Kingdom principle, not merely a Jewish one. God now looks for a cheerful giver and worshiper. So is the Sabbath Rest symbolic of Jesus’ rest for His people – a heart set free. Circumcision is symbolic in Jesus death and resurrection, and in Romans 25 – 29 was one of the heart. The heart dead to sin and the world, and alive in God. Paul states that an uncircumcised person will condemn he who lives to the written code yet breaks the law of God. Issues of the heart.”

    You are correct the Messiah/Christ is the most weighter matters of Torah, He is who we must accept and believe in the Most, He is more important than the tithe, Shabbath, circumcision, they are all part of the shadow, but Messiah/Christ is the body, the substance, the most important, the weighter matters of the Torah/Law. Messiah can chose to use the Torah, or not, in some cases He has continually used Torah, while others not so. So then the tithes are not a part of the weighter matters of Torah/Law, but they do have weight, this is also true for the Shabbath, and circumcision, it is a lesser weight, not as important, but then we can notice what Messiah said about the lesser weighter matters of Torah/law, He explained that they should be done, but to consider the weighter matters of Torah before, and during the time, of doing the lesser matters of Torah. So we see here a blessing that can be ours as long as we are in the weighter matters of Torah(Law), that is mercy, faith, love, justice, righteous judgement, now certainly at this time people don’t have to do the lesser matters of the Torah, but those lesser matters can be a blessing to them in many different ways, causing them to pass from being as David, to being as Eloheem(God).

    Notice there is blessing in every way for the Jew, and for those that are circumcised physically, this is really about inheriting the kingdom on earth as in shamayim/heaven.”What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. Romans 3:1-2″

  10. Debbie Fraser,

    You wrote:
    “Here is my thing. Bo, I feel like you are saying those who do not keep the Sabbath is sinning against the Lord. Yet I am not feeling convicted by the Holy Spirit by not keeping the Sabbath day.”

    I see you are using the words “feel” and “feeling.” Conviction is an interesting concept also. These are not what the scripture says we are to base our ideas of right and wrong or good and evil on. We are to renew our minds in the scripture so that we believe the correct things, not just go by whether we feel guilty or feel justified in our actions.

    The Bible says that we are not to hold a grudge or take revenge, but we sometimes feel justified in holding a grudge and even getting someone back. We may feel guilty after doing so…or we may not. The way we feel about it, does not make it right or wrong. Right and wrong are usually directly stated in the scripture.

    There are plenty of “believers” that live in adultery or fornication. The scripture says that this is wrong, no matter what feelings they have about the situation. The same goes for Sabbath breaking. How we feel about it is irrelevant to the fact that Sabbath breaking is a transgression of the law. The law tells us not to commit adultery and to keep the Sabbath holy. It is simply the truth.

    Our response to the truth is based upon our minds. If we reason that the law is not applicable to us or not in effect or wrong, we may feel no conviction while breaking it. It is still a transgression.

    Our consciences only act upon our beliefs of what is right and wrong. If we believe something to be true that is not true, our consciences will convict us improperly. This is why we need to take YHWH’s word as perfect truth. If we do not, we will deceive ourselves into thinking that we are not doing wrong when, in fact, we are transgressing.

    Paul said that he would not have known sin except the law informed his conscience of the truth.(Rom. 7:7) If we only let the rules (spoken or unspoken) of our parents or our culture or our church or our friends be the informer of our consciences, we will only be convicted when we go against their ideas. If we subject our minds to the law of YHWH we will be convicted when we transgress His law.(Rom. 8:7)

    YHWH’s law says to remember the Sabbath to keep it set apart. We tend to go by our convictions no matter if they are right or not. This is why it is so important to renew our stinkin’ thinkin’ by accepting the word of YHWH as right…no matter what we feel about it.

    Here is an example: There is a story about a man that was caught gathering sticks on Sabbath. YHWH said that he should be stoned for purposely going against commandment. The man doing the stick gathering may or may not have felt convicted. He may have justified his actions by reasoning that, “a few sticks is not work” or “I am resting in spirit while I work” or “it doesn’t matter if I keep Sabbath on the 7th day or the 1st.” It doesn’t matter what his conscience told him, because he was not subjecting his mind or body to the word of YHWH. He was guilty whether he felt guilty or not.

    Most of us think that this punishment is too harsh…even unjust. The reason we do this is that we do not see the whole situation. YHWH can see what Sabbath breaking causes from beginning to end. He sees the ramifications on the whole congregation. We judge unrighteous judgment because we do not “feel” that it is that bad. We “feel” this way because we have not renewed our minds in the word of YHWH properly. We can trust YHWH’s law/word to be perfect.

    Psalm 19
    7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
    8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
    9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
    10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
    11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
    12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
    13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
    14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

    We need to allow YHWH’s perfect law to convert/renew our souls/minds. We need his testimony (this term means the 10 commandments…all 10) to make us wise to real righteousness…not just what we feel to be right. YHWH’s judgments are completely righteous. If we do not saturate our minds in YHWH’s word, we will commit presumptuous sins (transgressing willfully after we know the truth). If we continue down the path of transgressing YHWH’s law we may even commit the great transgression. This is probably what John called a sin unto death.

    We cannot trust our hearts.

    Jeremiah 17
    9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    The best thing to do is to read it and then do it…period. It is easy to deceive ourselves with our deceitful hearts. We read YHWH’s perfect law and talk ourselves out of doing what it says. This ought not to be!

    James 1
    21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
    22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
    23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
    24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
    25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


  11. Hey folks, I was really serious about everyone laying off for a while. Take a break from this thread for a few days, OK? No need to reply to unanswered questions this moment. It can all wait. Step back. Take a breath. Pray and enjoy the Lord. Visit some other threads. OK?


  12. Or 3 or 4 weeks. 🙂

    If folks can’t get away from this for a while — whoever they may be — then there obsessed with the subject, IMHO. I’ve certainly been guilty of this in the past.

  13. Thanks, Bo, for pointing out the exact record of Genesis on the days of Noah and the Great Flood. Thanks for your desire too for consistency. I only wish that the reference of 8:13 translated easily into the calendar transitions over prerecorded and recorded time, and enough for, e.g., Noah’s years to be our’s. It would make any discussions here all the more commonly approachable, and our common interchange more outstanding than cited differences. I did note on rereading that section that it is stated by the Lord: “As long as the earth endures,
    seedtime and harvest,
    cold and heat,
    summer and winter,
    day and night
    will never cease”

    May it be so.

  14. Jabez,

    It just so happens that Noah’s years are exactly the same as the scriptural luna-solar calendar. Though one may be inclined to think that all of Noah’s months (year in and year out) had 30 days; it is not necessarily the case.

    It works out that some scriptural years have the sort of fallout that would produce 150 days in five months on occasion. With sighted new moons being the determination of the beginning of each month, there can be 29 or 30 day months.

    In the year of the flood there just happened to be such a fallout of new moon sightings that produced 150 days (inclusive reckoning) between the 2/17 and 7/17. This would be 4-30 day months interspersed with1-29 day month during this period.

    Though the lunar cycle averages approximately 29.5 days, the actual sighting of the new crescent moon varies due to its exact position in the sky at sunset and its position relative to the sun. There are many, many times that there are 2-30 day months in a row or 2-29 months in a row. On occasion there are even 3 in a row of either.

    If Noah was counting the days of the week during his voyage, all the above does not matter to us in this discussion because the days of the week have no correlation to the day of the month or year in the scriptural or solar calendars.

    He got on the ark on 2/17 and off on 2/27 the following year. Lets just say he got on the ark on a Sunday. One scriptural year (354 days + or – 1 day) and 10 days later (possibly 365 days in total)he got off the ark on Monday. And he just kept counting…1 through 7 like he had always done. Like all those before him and all those after him.

    A 365 day calendar starts one day of the week later than the previous. A 366 day (leap year) calendar starts two days of the week later. There is no interruption in the weekly cycle. The same is true of virtually every calendar man has devised. It does not matter if the calendar is accurate or not, as long as the 1-7 count continues unbroken. And it has continued unbroken at least from the time that our Messiah kept the Sabbath on the correct day of the week. We can know for sure.

    Do you accept the testimony of the scripture that YHWH knew when Sabbath was during the exodus, when He stopped the manna every seven days and called it the Sabbath? That was a divine testimony that would have fixed any problems in counting that the flood had caused.

    Do you accept the testimony of Gospels that Y’Shua was in the habit of going to the synagogue on sabbath? He called it Sabbath. If anyone knew when it was, it would have been the Master/Lord of the Sabbath.

    Two divine testimonies that would have fixed any counting mistakes are two witnesses by which we can establish that the Sabbath count was not lost up to 2000 years ago. Do you accept these testimonies as true, even if you think science cannot reestablish the correct day by it’s measurements? Or do you accept, what man calls, science over the testimony of scripture?

    There is ample historic testimony to the continuation of the seven day week from well before the Gospels were written. So If one accepts the scriptural witnesses and the testimony of modern histories, there is not a doubt that the Jewish people along with most of the rest of humanity have maintained an accurate count.

    I believe that you are trying to tell us that there is no scientifically accurate way to know what day of the week a certain date fell on in the distant past. OK! If science cannot tell us what day of the week it was on September 23, 2525 BC…so be it. We only need to know what day of the week it is now…and we do.


  15. Bo, Noticed, yes. The instruments used in present GIS referenced work are computer based, earth magnetic referenced, sun cyle referenced, and linked to NOAA, NCAR, etc. The Wiki article includes compensations that are necessary for atomic clock references, placements on the earth’s surface, solar storms, eclipses, and moon to sun anomilies, as are presently precisely measured. Comparing this to budding life arrivals in the ancient Holy Land is not simply circumspect.

    Current applications of a time/space/suncyle continuum mentions the factors of relativity which must be regarded as to when, where, and how one is traveling, observing, counting, and navigating. You might look up how airplanes do their own navigation from maps to globe to understand the issues involved calendar to calendar over centuries of recorded history, and not. How these become related to human perception of time, days, weeks, years, etc. when moving around the planet by those realities say something about earlier and later founded time/space/locus realities.

    Ever contemplate how to fit Dinosaurs into the 7 literal day creation scheme, how to they first florish, then completely go away within seven literal 24 hour days? What is the reality involved in understanding a short day vs long day creation comprehension? How would such bear on origins, days, dates, and time, where so?

    The answers are used for present into Space travel tajectories planning, according to days, months, years, and earth and solar calendar parts of seconds rotation interrelations and the like. The earth slightly changes shape, and orientation to our Sun over time. Comets and the like also alter our perception of time, days, weeks, months, where we are, have been, and are arriving. As to these arriving at different compensations over time and earth history for such reference than simply counting days and nights as such, is the case.

    IF anything certain astronomy in certain eras is more understanding of such eon influencing relativity than present calendar and day measures, or Holy Land based agricultural seasonal and new moon events. If I am coordinating a calendar formed hundreds of kilometers away from the Holy Land, with such a calendar as the evolving Jewish one, and it predominates world references over time, eclipsing any such past relative references, how does Einstien come into play as to making here and now comparisons of present and past, of locations and moving reference points, days and years, etc.?

    Please read the Wiki article.

  16. Jabez H.,

    Do yo think that Messiah kept the Sabbath on the seventh day? Do you think He knew when the correct day was? Do you think YHWH knew when to stop the manna on the correct day?

    Why was there not dinosaurs on the ark? Why did not the vast majority die during the flood? We find their bones all jumbled together as if moved there by millions of gallons of water.

    I am fine with all the preciseness of scientific time measurements. They just do not relate to knowing when the seventh day Sabbath is. We have accurate Bibles and histories that have kept us on track. The whole argument of scientific measurement of time is of no value in knowing when the seventh day sabbath starts or ends.

    The scriptural day starts at dusk. It has happened since creation…6000 years ago. It has happened every day since the exodus and the manna. It has happened every day since Messiahs time. It has been kept track of. Your science means nothing as to counting days and watching the sun set. Are you sure your god isn’t science?


  17. Jabez h.,

    Here is the link of that wikipedia article you linked us to : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

    Here are some quotes:

    “The Hebrew calendar year is longer by about 6 minutes and 25+25/57 seconds than the present-day mean solar year, so that every 224 years, the Hebrew calendar will fall a full day behind the modern solar year, and about every 231 years it will fall a full day behind the Gregorian calendar year.”

    “The Hebrew calendar follows a seven-day weekly cycle, which runs concurrently but independently of the monthly and annual cycles.”

    “Furthermore, the seasonal drift of the Rabbinic calendar is avoided, resulting in the years affected by the drift starting one month earlier in the Karaite calendar.”

    I will try to comment on these tomorrow.


  18. Jabez H.,

    I read the wikipedia from start to finish. There is nothing in thr article that would even hint at the day of the week being lost. The above quotes are instructive.

    The first quote is the only thing I could find that could be misunderstood to mean that the day of the week gets off. What it is saying is that every 224 years the calculated rabbinic calendar (Hebrew calendar) will get another day out of sinc with our calendar. This has been going on for many centuries already, but has not affected the day of the week count or caused anyone be confused as to what day of the week it is.

    The second quote above provides the reason why the day of the week is not lost, even though the calendar is off compared to the earths actual spot in in the solar system. The reason is that, “The Hebrew calendar follows a seven-day weekly cycle, which runs concurrently but independently of the monthly and annual cycles.” The Gregorian calendar does the same thing. As long as there no large scale amnesia epidemic, the people using either calendar will remain on the same day of the week as the other.

    There is a way to avoid the seasonal drift described in the first quote. The Karaites use the older Hebrew/Biblical calendar. They have been using it quite a long time. They are still on the same day of the week that we are. The Rabbinic calendar followers are on the same day of the week as us too. It is because almost the whole world is counting 1 through 7 over and over. Quote number 2 above explains why the Sabbath was never lost… will it be, as the prophets declare that we will worship on Sabbaths in the Messianic Kingdom to come.

    Is there anyone that is not on the same day of the week as us? Is there something in the article that you can point us to that you see causes a loss of the day of the week? Please quote a specific statement from the article so that we may see why you think that we do not know what day of the week it is.


  19. Correction:

    …the Sabbath was never lost…nor will it be, as the prophets declare that we will worship on Sabbaths in the Messianic Kingdom to come.

  20. OK Bo, Apparently you misunderstand what I originally stated and recently stated as to Calendar correlations, and accurate reflection of days of the week since Creation: in current science reference uses and current calendar applications being skewed from the Bibilcal Hebrew calendar original recorded days of its reference. I will post more when I can get to it, hopefully soon.

    I understand your position to be that days are days, and if counted sequentially by sevens, sun up to sun down from the beginning, the seventh day will still be such repeatedly. I will clarify differences with this position being reflected by the current days on the current calendar in my future post.

  21. Jabez H.,

    Before you get long winded, would you please tell us whether you believe that Y’Shua kept the Sabbath on the correct day…or confess that you think that He didn’t? This will give us a starting point.

    If you can muster a declaration as to the accuracy of history since that time it would also be helpful.

    One last thing, do you think that the seven day count has been maintained from Messiahs earthly sojourn till now? If we can agree on these…great. If not, we need to know where the mix up has occurred in the last 2000 years. What ever happened before that will prove irrelevant if there is has been a problem lately.


  22. No, Bo, I will start with the original post premise as followed throughout my posts, as that was my subject. I am tied up a couple of days, so be patient.

  23. Jabez H.,

    When you get a chance…please answer my post # 234 directly so that we can understand your position clearly.


  24. The Bible and scripture are precise indicators of who is the Messiah, when he would come according to Daniel, and what transpired accordingly. My soon sharing will be about the changing of calendars, confusion, and clarity regarding the coming Return, and why it is the way it is. This will include my original premise.

  25. Jabez H.,

    I keep checking back here and see no response. Shall I remove the link from my favorites bar?


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