1. Ryan,

    Thanks for your response to Frank’s material. Obviously, I feel his documentation is far better than what you credit him for, and what you call fear-mongering I would call sounding a clarion call warning based on truth, but I’m glad to see that you have, in fact, read his book.

    As for the biblical witness, alas, my friend, you do reject it, and quite categorically at that. I suggest you watch two videos mine if you haven’t already. This has nothing to do with prejudice, nor is it a justification for hatred or mistreatment (God forbid). Rather, it has to do with truth and love.

    The first video deals in depth with what the Bible really says: http://coalitionofconscience.askdrbrown.org/resources/2007_lecture_monday.html.

    The second video deals with the question of using the Bible to support prejudices: http://coalitionofconscience.askdrbrown.org/resources/2008_lecture_monday.html.

    Again, thanks for all the interaction.

    For a list of further resources dealing with same-sex “marriage,” see here: http://coalitionofconscience.askdrbrown.org/resources/same_sex_marriage_resources.html.

  2. Dr. Brown,

    I, too, appreciate the interaction. I also appreciate your links to those videos, but I don’t want to debate what Holy Scripture has to say about homosexuality, though not for lack passionate interest in the subject. Here and now, it doesn’t get us anywhere.

    I think that we, like people on opposite sides across this debate can keep tearing down one another’s positions indefinitely. We set forth different premises, which makes it difficult to even engage one another’s arguments directly.

    But, the circumstances in which we have this conversation are clear. Homosexual marriage is an accomplished fact across the Western world, including parts of the United States. And every day that homosexuals live within legal marriages, the position of opponents to homosexual marriage grows weaker. This is testified to by the bulk of recent polling data, which indicates equal numbers Americans favor and oppose same-sex marriage, but a strong majority favor marriage or a civil union. Other polling indicates half of Americans think homosexuals either do, or should have, the right to enjoy a recognized union. And Americans under 30 favor marriage in far greater numbers than their elders, which means simple demographics will prove an almost irresistible force.

    Same-sex marriage will continue to expand in acceptance across the United States – perhaps quickly, perhaps slowly, but certainly. And you are a leader within a large community of Americans who believe, in fidelity to your understanding of the biblical witness, homosexuality to be a moral evil that will unravel marriage and society. But, there isn’t another Mayflower to carry pilgrims to another unknown continent; we will continue to live together.

    So what will be our shared path? How and where will you lead once homosexuals are an established part of our culture of marriage? Despite your moral stance, are there ways to build up homosexual marriages – to contribute to their existence as positive, meaningful relationships? I don’t think that waiting for, or hoping for, their failure is an option we have.

  3. Ryan,

    Homosexual marriage is anything but established in the Western world, and in America, every state that has voted on the issue has voted to define marriage as it is: the union of a man and a woman. Just like ABC is not math and 2+2 = 4 is not spelling, the union of two men or two women is not marriage. (BTW, the polling data I have read from numerous sources does not verify your stats; also, public opinion changes, for better or worse, and I would not be surprised if the tide turns strongly against gay activism in the coming years, for quite a few reasons, none of them hateful.)

    So, I will work to bring homosexual men and women to the life-changing message of Jesus, I will work to strength real marriage, and I will work to educate the public that same-sex “marriage” is not marriage.

    Since homosexual practice is morally wrong and ultimately not in the best interest of society or even those practicing it, to encourage it in any form is immoral, and thus not a loving option for me. I will, however, offer hope for a better life in Jesus to all who will accept it. That is true love, even if people reject it and misunderstand it, and I would rather go against the grain and do what is right in God’s sight and for the good of my fellow-human beings, even if people misunderstand and malign me, then be accepted by the homosexual community and their allies.

    So, the answer is simple: God has a better way!

  4. One of the problems I see with gay marriage is the rejection of Biblical authority. The notion of separation of church and state has resulted in elevation of the Constitution beyond that of a governing document. The statement of physicist Robert Jastrow comes to mind, β€œFor the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

    The analogy here is the same. Same sex marriage, by the faith in reason in political philosophy proclaims it knows. But the story isn’t over. The point being that true reason leads to the Biblical God. This is why I believe Dr. Brown is correct in that there are non hateful reasons for rejecting homosexuality in the future.

  5. …Just heard the show. I thought by far the strongest point made in that editorial was that Anne Rice has publicly quit Christianity. My first thought was, “will the church recover?”

    I mean, really, who’d ever have thought that a woman who’s made millions peddling erotic horror novels would one day turn her back on Christianity? πŸ˜‰

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