144 Comments
  1. Great show today. Definitely a question, as Christians, that we hear a lot and maybe even wonder for ourselves. This reminds me of the story of Yitzhak Kaduri who was revealed the name of the Messiah, a very spiritual man who memorized the Talmud and Rashi’s commentary on it. Very interesting story which I’m sure Dr. Brown is familiar with, but for others who do not know and are interested, here is the story.
    http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1347

    Also, I’ll be praying for you on your trip to Israel and that God uses you mightily there to reach the lost sheep of the house of Israel! Maybe you can get them to say “baruch haba b’shem Adonai!”… What a joyful day will be!

  2. What about those have have [in one way or another] heard and read the Bible yet do not fully understand the gospel message of the coming Kingdom of God? The reason why Jesus was sent [Lu 4.43]:

    His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’

    This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Luke 8

  3. What about 1 Peter 3:
    19 After being made alive,he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

    If Jesus went into the “belly of the earth” and preached to these imprisoned before His time isn’t it suffice to say He will ensure that same “proclamation” will be made to all mankind before the judgement? Of course we all have a choice, I’m not denying that. But I’ll tell ya one thing…If I was down in the earth and Jesus came preaching to me I think I’d be pretty convinced.

    I am in no way declaring how, or when in each person’s life He would do this, BUT, I am convinced He is good and will give all the opportunity to accept His sacrifice.

    He is just. And while we, as humans, are far from grasping the full reality of true, holy justice, I would presume it safe to say God is not just picking and choosing, or ignoring lone primitive tribes that don’t have a missionary get to them in time. I don’t have a logical way to answer that…but isn’t it fair to say I don’t necessarily need a logical answer because I know within, as much as I know I am saved, that He is a good God?

  4. CLARIFICATION:

    I am not saying they will go to heaven if they reject God. My simple point is that my faith in His ability and goodness to give these all a choice in one fashion or another is greater than my lack of mental capacity to apprehend things “to wonderful for me”.

    My other point is, like Dr. Brown mentioned, maybe it’s our approach in understanding this that is wrong. So, if I said something that sounded heretical and like it was against the basic tenants of our faith it was just worded poorly.

  5. Dave

    My point was that the “purpose of Christianity has been buried under a mass of theological tradition. There is general agreement only about the ethical demands of the present Christian life: a Christian must love and serve his neighbor. But almost nothing at all is known of the ultimate purpose and goal which Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, intended for those who follow Him. Contemporary religion, which claims the name of Christ, has abandoned the purpose of the faith which is clearly spelled out by Jesus in His Gospel message — the Gospel about the Kingdom of God (Luke 4:43, etc.).”

    http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/simplicity.htm

  6. Messiah went into hell to save those that didn’t hear about Him before, those that don’t hear about the Messiah get a chance to believe after they die. Now if people rejected the Messiah they will not be given a chance after they die.

  7. “For Messiah(Christ) also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to Eloheem(God), being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of Eloheem(God) waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    1 Peter 3:18-20”
    One of the meanings of this is that Messiah went into hell, and preached to the spirits in hell after they had died.

    Notice this next quote Luke 4:18 shows Messiah preaches deliverance to the captives.
    “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Luke 4:18”

    Isaiah 61:1 shows Messiah, “…opening of the prison to them that are bound Isaiah 61:1.” Notice that is also what 1 Peter 3:19 talks about.
    “1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Isaiah 61:1”

    Also Isaiah 42:7 explains this too.
    “To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. Isaiah 42:7”

    These are talked about, because Messiah went to the prison of hell, and opened the eyes so that they would come out of hell, which they did if they believed in the Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah. That is one context, there is another true context of Him talking us out of the prison too.

    The Tanach/O.C. believers couldn’t be perfect until Messiah came, and did what He did. “Eloheem(God) having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Hebrews 11:40”

  8. I can not find the scripture. I have tried very hard to find it. Anyone know where in scripture where it says…Everyone will get a chance to hear about Jesus to either reject or receive Him. I will be so extremely happy if someone can show me where in the NT it says this.

    I’m not to sure about what you said Travis is correct. That you will get a chance to receive Salvation when you pass away.

    God fearing men who passed away before Christ came to earth did not go to hell.
    Read Luke 16 19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

    20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

    21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

    25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

    26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:

    28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

    29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

    You can not receive salvation after you die.

    When Jesus talked about setting the captives free He was talking about people who were alive in bondage, captivity. ex) addictions, oppressed by the devil, sick in body, sick in mind.

    People who died who were God fearing men and women before Christ came did not go to hell. Hell is a place of torment. Are you saying people like Abraham and Moses went to hell when they died??? Not true.

  9. Hey Chuck…I wasn’t just posting something I was thinking about since listening to the broadcast…If I sounded like I was differing with you on a point it was a complete accident! haha

  10. Travis,

    I totally agree. My intention was to highlight what you then more clearly expounded on as a “barometer” of God’s heart to those who die but never hear. It gives some faith and understanding into God’s heart and active pursuit of all men, not only to those before His sacrifice, but from the point of Jesus sacrifice forward.

  11. Travis,

    Messiah went into hell to save those that didn’t hear about Him before, those that don’t hear about the Messiah get a chance to believe after they die. Now if people rejected the Messiah they will not be given a chance after they die.

    Did you mean simply those before Christ were given a chance to die or that all, even after Christ, are given a chance if they didn’t hear?

  12. Ask and you shall receive. I found the scripture verse I was looking and asking for. Thank you ever loving, ever faithful Lord.

    Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

  13. Dave

    I think we differ on our view of what the Bible means by the gospel. It has been reduced to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. But if you carefully study and examine the Gospels, you will find that Jesus came preaching something he called “the coming Kingdom of God”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdG3g2Q_p_o

  14. Dave — Did you mean simply those before Christ were given a chance to die or that all, even after Christ, are given a chance if they didn’t hear?

    Travis — My understanding is, The Lord went to Abraham’s bosom that was a place of prison, the righteous part of the prison, and hell was next to it, that is also a prison, he could have went to the evil parts of hell, and preached, I don’t know. I have been told that, Abraham’s bosom was a part of prison or hell, but was the righteous part of hell, the evil part of hell is where so much suffering happens. Another way to see that is that Abraham’s bosom is a place outside of the New Jerusalem, thus any place outside is a place for individuals that are not perfect, it can be viewed as a hell, but it is the righteous part of hell. “14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14-15”

    So the prison is the righteous part of hell, also known as Abraham’s bosom, but the evil part of hell is another prison, which Messiah might have went to them also, not sure. Now Eloheem/God is merciful, He will give everyone a chance to believe, if they believe they will be blessed, if they reject they will be cursed, all must believe in the Messiah, if people didn’t know about the Messiah that He suffered, died, and rose again, and the He is called only begotten Son of Eloheem, if they didn’t know about that, as well as that He is Yah/Lord, and Eloheem/God, if they didn’t know about that, then they can be given another chance to believe after death. If individuals knew Messiah, but rejected belief in Him they will not be given another chance. If individuals didn’t know about Messiah, they couldn’t have accepted Him, or rejected Him, so they are given a chance.

  15. Chuck — The kingdom of Eloheem/God is about Yeshua/Jesus being the Messiah, being the Yah/Lord, and the Eloheem/God, the only begotten Son of Eloheem/God, also His suffering, dying, and resurrection, that covers the kingdom of Eloheem/God, because He is the way, truth, and life. How we are saved is by Him, and through Him we experience the things inside of Him, we experience the way, truth, and life, we experience the suffering, dying, and resurrection.

  16. Dave — Did you mean simply those before Christ were given a chance to die or that all, even after Christ, are given a chance if they didn’t hear?

    Travis — My understanding is, The Lord went to Abraham’s bosom that was a place of prison, the righteous part of the prison, and hell was next to it, that is also a prison, he could have went to the evil parts of hell, and preached, I don’t know. I have been told that, Abraham’s bosom was a part of prison or hell, but was the righteous part of hell, the evil part of hell is where so much suffering happens. Another way to see that is that Abraham’s bosom is a place outside of the New Jerusalem, thus any place outside is a place for individuals that are not perfect, it can be viewed as a hell, but it is the righteous part of hell. “14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14-15″

    So the prison is the righteous part of hell, also known as Abraham’s bosom, but the evil part of hell is another prison, which Messiah might have went to them also, not sure. Now Eloheem/God is merciful, He will give everyone a chance to believe, if they believe they will be blessed, if they reject they will be cursed, all must believe in the Messiah, if people didn’t know about the Messiah that He suffered, died, and rose again, and the He is called only begotten Son of Eloheem, if they didn’t know about that, as well as that He is Yah/Lord, and Eloheem/God, if they didn’t know about that, then they can be given another chance to believe after death. If individuals knew Messiah, but rejected belief in Him they will not be given another chance. If individuals didn’t know about Messiah, they couldn’t have accepted Him, or rejected Him, so they are given a chance.

  17. Chuck,

    The kingdom of Eloheem/God is about Yeshua/Jesus being the Messiah, being the Yah/Lord & the Eloheem/God, the Son of Eloheem/God, also His suffering, dying & resurrection, that covers the kingdom of Eloheem/God, because He is the way, truth & life. We are saved is by Him & through Him, we experience the way, truth & life, we experience the suffering, dying & resurrection.

  18. Jesus went to the place called Sheol(another word is called Hades). Sheol contains 2 parts. Paradise and Hell. Jesus went to retrieve the folks in Paradise to bring them with Him to Heaven. No one could enter Heaven until Jesus went there first.

    Then he went to where the unsaved people were(in hell) to proclaim that sin has no victory over death. That He-Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil.

    1 Corinthians 15:55
    “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

    Thank you for the cross Lord, thank you for the price you paid.

  19. Dr Brown,
    You are needed here. I truly believe there is false information being taught or believed in here.
    Can you please clear it up?

    In the OT, did the unsaved who passed away who are in Hell, did Jesus give them a chance to get out of Hell and receive salvation?

    Really appreciate your help.

  20. Chuck,

    This is funny…when I posted my comment it was just some thoughts I had…it wasn’t in reaction to what you wrote. Didn’t this happen once before:-) haha…or maybe it was someone else I was thinking of…don’t remember.

    But as far as your post #7 is concerned, I think it was a great observation. I have often thought the same thing. Still, I would think God is greater than our poor witness of Him in some of these circumstances. What I mean to say, is that I think God would bring each individual, one way or another, to a conscious choice in the matter.

    This brings up another thought to me…what about severe mentally handicapped people?

  21. Chuck,

    I just read your post #16 to me. I am not sure what comment of mine you are referring to when you said

    I think we differ on our view of what the Bible means by the gospel.

    .

    I believe there is the gospel(good news) of salvation, which is referring to the life, death and burial of Jesus, and also, the gospel(good news) of the kingdom which is referring to His kingdom being within and established on this earth through us.

    I agree that there is more to the gospel than salvation and “get to heaven when you die”…I guess I wouldn’t pick the word “reduced”, though, because this is eternity we are talking about. But again, i do believe there is much more about this Gospel of the Kingdom.

    Could you expound?

  22. Travis,

    I agree with the “gist” of what you are saying…but I honestly need to look into what you are saying specifically. I understand the connection you are trying to make with Abraham’s bosom, but I don’t have a strong enough understanding to comment either way on that yet.

  23. Debbie,

    What specifically are you referring to as false information? The reason I ask is that in your post immediately before you mentioned you thought there might be some false information you said…

    “Jesus went to the place called Sheol(another word is called Hades). Sheol contains 2 parts. Paradise and Hell. Jesus went to retrieve the folks in Paradise to bring them with Him to Heaven. No one could enter Heaven until Jesus went there first.
    Then he went to where the unsaved people were(in hell) to proclaim that sin has no victory over death. That He-Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil.
    1 Corinthians 15:55
    “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”
    Thank you for the cross Lord, thank you for the price you paid.”

    Isn’t that what Travis and I were dialoging about…or am I missing something?

    Also, to both you and Travis…prison equaling paradise doesn’t make sense to me. How is prison paradise?

  24. If none can be saved by the Law, than why wouldn’t it make sense that Jesus preached to these souls in hell?

    Any thoughts?

  25. Dave you said…”Isn’t that what Travis and I were dialoging about…or am I missing something?”

    No. Travis is saying something I believe to be not correct. That is why I would like Dr Brown to straighten it out.

    I do not believe that Jesus gave an opportunity to the unsaved dead to receive Salvation. Travis seems to think that He did.

    Once you leave this earth and you are not saved you do not get a 2nd chance at salvation.

    What I said was “Then he went to where the unsaved people were(in hell) to PROCLAIM that sin has no victory over death.

    Proclaim means to announce officially, to declare. Thats all Jesus did when He went down to the unsaved in the hell.

    paradise was not in prison. Read my post #19 again. It explains.

  26. Travis

    It is a contradiction in theological terms to say that the Son is “the Yah/Lord & the Eloheem/God”, whilst at the same time being “the Son of Eloheem/God”.

    The Apostle Paul says in 1Cor 15 that after the Son destroys every wicked ruler and authority and power he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father:

    For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.”[Ps 8.6]

    (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)

    Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

    Debbie

    In the OT, did the unsaved who passed away who are in Hell, did Jesus give them a chance to get out of Hell and receive salvation?

    If its of any help scripture does not teach that the dead are presently in Hell. Death is described as sleeping, since there is no activity.

    For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. Eccl 9.5

    If by “the unsaved who passed away who are in Hell” you refer to what Peter says regarding Jesus’ “proclamation”, I think it refers back to those wicked angelic beings who are currently in a place similar to Hell called “Tartaros”:

    The inspired Scriptures do not consign any human souls to tartarus, but consign there only spirit creatures, namely, “the angels that sinned” after materializing in human form in Noah’s day and having relations with the “daughters of Men”. Their being cast into tartarus denotes the deepest abasement for them while they are still living, and is a state of restraint by no longer being able to materialize in human form.

    This also serves as punishment for all the rebellious angels who sinned against the Most High God. The apostle Peter associates darkness with their low condition, saying that God “delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.” Compare 2Peter 2:4,5 with Genesis 6:2. Wikipedia article on Tartarus

    Dave

    …the kingdom which is referring to His kingdom being within and established on this earth through us.

    I am sure you are familiar with the LORD’s prayer which says in part…”your KINGDOM COME, your will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven”? The Gospel Jesus and the Apostles preach is about a future, literal and visible coming of God’s Kingdom ON EARTH. Not in heaven! This will be inaugurated at Jesus’ second coming [1Thess 4].

    The traditional, “Christian orthodox” view of the Gospel reduced to “Jesus only” [receive him in your heart] and “going to heaven when you die”, is not found in the NT. I suggest you read and analyze the parable of the sower.

  27. Ok, I understand what you are saying now.

    I’m not 100% sure where I stand on this, but as of now I lean towards what Travis was implicating about those who died before Christ.

    My question is would it be accurate to say there was salvation before Jesus? We know there was a covenant with the Jews, and we know that all who did evil in God’s sight went to hell. We know that if certain Jewish laws were broken they would be killed. But if those who were “right with God” went into the “paradise” part of hell, than why would they need to be preached to? I mean, they were right with God according to that covenant, weren’t they? Why would they be prisoner’s to hell if they were right with God?

    A guess is the answer is because we are told “no one can be made right with God by observing the Law”. Since this is the case, it would seem to make sense that He would preach to them all since all were in need of Him for salvation.

    I really don’t know, Debbie. Maybe if you send Dr. Brown an email he will answer it on the “Questions for Dr. Brown” show on Friday.

  28. Heb 9:29 states, “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”.

    2Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell

    these scriptures back up my point

  29. Dave…But if those who were “right with God” went into the “paradise” part of hell, than why would they need to be preached to? I mean, they were right with God according to that covenant, weren’t they?

    Who said there was preaching to the faithful? I Believe there was great rejoicing. There was no preaching.

    Dave…Why would they be prisoner’s to hell if they were right with God?

    The faithful were not in prison. They were in Paradise.

    Praise God for your hunger Dave. The Lord said those who hunger and thirst for righteous will be fed.

  30. Chuck,
    Sadly to say. There are millions of people in Hell right now. There is activity too. There is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Here is a way to make you understand what the bible means as “sleep”.

    When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death, it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

  31. Hey Debbie,

    When I said “preaching” I was referring the verse in 1 Peter which actually says “proclamation”.

    My question would be, why would Jesus just go and proclaim that sin has no victory over death to those doomed forever before He came?

    It seems like that could also be said in this manner…”Jesus then went to hell and told them, ‘see, sin has no victory over death, but too bad for you because you were alive before I came. Only those who were lucky enough to be born after I came to earth have a chance at salvation through Me…as for, well that’s just too bad”

    If that sounded like I am making light of the subject, I’m not. I do believe people are in hell and I do believe many more are unfortunately going. I’m just saying I don’t understand how to make sense of WHY Jesus would do that.

    Any more thoughts?

  32. Debbie

    There are millions of people in Hell right now. There is activity too. There is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Here is a way to make you understand what the bible means as “sleep”.

    The immortal soul tradition negates the clear biblical teaching of judgment day, which will happen at the resurrection of the dead. When your dead [asleep] you are not alive, and vice versa. No one is current in Hell. If this were true, what is the point of a future resurrection of the dead and judgment if this has already happened?

    All those verses you cited look forward to that future, resurrection/judgment of the dead. The NT is is founded on the prophetic visions experienced by men like Daniel [12.2] and Ezekiel [37], where a literal reanimation of dead bodies by the power of God’s spirit is in view. This unchanging understanding at the centre of what ultimately the gospel message promises [eternal life to be attained only in the KOG], is maintained by Peter at Pentecost in Acts 2.29-35.

    So what does this mean? No one, including prophets, patriarchs or kings, is said to be currently alive [conscious and active] in heaven, where only Jesus is said to be at the present because he is the “firstfruits [first to rise from the dead] of those who have fallen asleep [dead]” [1Cor 15.20-23; cp. Acts 26.23]:

    1Cor 15.20: …If God raised Christ from the dead, then Christ truly was the firstfruits (Ex. 23:19; Lev. 23:10; Deut. 18:4; Neh. 10:35) or the first of many others who would also be raised from the dead. (See also Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 15:23; Col. 1:18.) The term “firstfruits” (Gk. aparchē) refers to a first sample of an agricultural crop that indicates the nature and quality of the rest of the crop; therefore, Christ’s resurrection body gives a foretaste of what those of believers will be like. ESV study Bible

    [WARNING: As good as most of the biblical commentaries sometimes are, they also get it wrong. The ESV Study Bible commentary for the following verse [1Cor 1.23] reads: “Until that time, those who have died exist in heaven as spirits without bodies.”?!]

    http://inthenameofwhowhat.blogspot.com/2009/09/immortal-longing-by-carlos-xavier.html

  33. Rev 6:10
    and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

    Mat 27:51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

    Mat 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

    Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

    So, I don’t see where you are coming from. Did those whose graves were opened just walk around forevermore, or, did the Lord take them with Him as the “firstfruits” of the harvest of Souls from Sheol–the grave? Were they not the “righteous” dead who waited on the Hope of Israel”, their “promised” Messiah? A “firstfruit” implies a “harvest”. Christ the firstfruit from the dead, released those also, and took them with Him. Do those crying out from under the altar, “How long?” represent those who “died in Christ”, or, John didn’t really hear what the Lord gave him to hear?

    Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

    Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

    Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

  34. And, too, Chuck, you never answered this discussion from another blog. What does the story of Abraham and Lazarus have to do with “Kingdom Truths”? The Lord wouldn’t go about teaching lies, even in a “parable”. So, in fact, there is a separation of the righteous dead and the wicked dead. And there is evidence in the OT, as well, for such.

    As far as people who never heard the Gospel, I know that only the Lord knows peoples hearts and can discern between them. And we also have the imagery of the scales in which are weighed the deeds done in the body, whether good or bad.

  35. Dave… Keep seeking and you shall find your answer.
    You are wise to keep questioning about:

    Dave… When I said “preaching” I was referring the verse in 1 Peter which actually says “proclamation”.
    My question would be, why would Jesus just go and proclaim that sin has no victory over death to those doomed forever before He came?

    After further studying I realize that Jesus did not preach to the unsaved dead. He did however go down to the paradise part of Sheol(Hades) and gather with Him the saved who are now in Heaven with Him. So, again I truly believe He did not preach to the unsaved dead. Sorry about saying He did. The unsaved had their chance to know God when they lived on earth. They rejected Him.

    As for Chuck. I totally disagree about what you claim. That there are no people in hell right now. That is not scriptural truth.

    Once we die and leave our bodies, our spirit and soul will either enter Heaven or hell. That is just how it is.
    When the resurrection comes those in Christ will receive new resurrected bodies. But when one dies our spirit and soul either goes to Heaven or hell.

    You got to listen and believe what Jesus says. You can not ignore Luke 16:19-29.

    People who had out of body experience claimed to been to Heaven or Hell when they died.

    I personnely know one guy who literally died and is now alive. He told me what he seen. He saw all darkness. Black. Think about this…How can you see after you die? The reason why he saw darkness is because he is not saved. There is no light in hell. He believes in some Third Dimension world new age theory.

  36. Dave..Did you know that there were righteous people who received salvation before Christ appeared? I’m starting to realize you didn’t know that.

  37. Luke 16:22-23 …the rich man died, and was buried: And in hell he lifted up his eyes…

    Death is a separation of body and spirit. The rich man’s body was in the grave, but he was in hell with all his senses. His body would appear to be asleep because it was lifeless.

    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead…

    At death the body is called dead because nobody is home.

  38. Sheila

    Did those whose graves were opened just walk around forevermore, or, did the Lord take them with Him as the “firstfruits” of the harvest of Souls from Sheol–the grave?

    None of the above. The only human being who has been glorified and taken up into heaven is the Son of God. I would presume all those other cases of a resurrection from the dead eventually died. That is, they were resurrected back to a mortal, human life but eventually died [cp. Heb 11, ALL God’s people are currently dead!].

    What does the story of Abraham and Lazarus have to do with “Kingdom Truths”?

    I’ll let one of ‘Christianity’s’ revered figures, John Wesley [founder of the Methodist Church] answer this oft-used argument regarding immortal soul:

    It is, indeed, very generally supposed that the souls of good men, as soon as they are discharged from the body, go directly to heaven; but this opinion has not the least foundation in the oracles of God.

    On the contrary our Lord says to Mary, after the resurrection, ‘Touch me not; for I have not yet ascended to my Father.’

  39. Chuck,
    This is where the most famous expression in Christian discussions come in.

    Lets agree to disagree and leave it as that.

    May the Lord shine upon you and bless you.

  40. Debbie

    I hope your love for God and His Son direct you to carefully examine and search the scriptures [Deu 29.29; Acts 17.11].

  41. Chuck,

    You wrote “all God’s people are currently dead.”

    Could you explain what you believe Jesus meant in Mark 12:27 “He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly ere.”

  42. Chuck,
    I’m sorry but I do not believe you. I know in all my heart and soul what I said is the truth.

    Those who are children of God are led by the Spirit of God. The Lord speaks the truth to His children.

  43. Actually the Lord always speaks the truth, weather you are His or not.

    Sorry my Lord.

    Blessings to you Chuck!! 🙂

  44. Debbie

    I do not doubt your believes or feelings [Rom 10.2], but their just not based on what the scriptures have to say regarding the state of the dead.

    As Paul says, we should learn from “the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, [yet] never succeeded.” [Rom 9.31]

  45. When we die. Our physical bodies go into the grave. For flesh and blood can not inherited the kingdom of God. But our spirits will be with the Lord when we die. Because we are born again. Our spirits belong to the Lord. Jesus has given us eternal life as soon as we become born again. Eternal means forever.

    When the Lord gives us His word He always refers to physical meaning and spiritual meanings.

    physical meaning…Genesis 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
    spiritual meaning…2 Corinthians 6:14 Don’t team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness?

    physical meaning…without drinking water we will eventually die. We need water to make this physical body live.
    spiritual meaning…John 17 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

    9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

    10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

    11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

    13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

    Jesus is the living water. If you have Jesus living in you you will never die. Again spiritually speaking.

    Check out what Paul been through.
    2Corinthians 12:2-7

    2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
    3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

    Philippians 1:21-24

    21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

    See Paul was torn about being with Christ or staying on earth to preach.

    Again…Our spirits will live forever. Besides when I was 12 years old the Lord told me I would never die. Whether that is spiritually or physically He meant I do not know.

  46. Again…Our spirits will live forever. Besides when I was 12 years old the Lord told me I would never die. Whether that is spiritually or physically He meant I do not know.

    Actually He could of meant both.. Hint…the rapture.

  47. Chuck — You said, It is a contradiction in theological terms to say that the Son is “the Yah/Lord & the Eloheem/God”, whilst at the same time being “the Son of Eloheem/God”.
    —————————————-

    Yet, we know He is the Son, and here is what scripture says. “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Yah(LORD) and my Eloheem(God). John 20:28”

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