I listen 9-10onwaijradio Very interesting. ? about the Eshdus 21’22-23. Hebrew is unclear that the baby death is the one being punished and objected to. Explain the Hebrew text difference from KJV or other.please. Can’t understand why any Jew would not value life as God does.
I listen 9-10onwaijradio Very interesting. ? about the Exodus 21’22-23. Hebrew is unclear that the baby death is the one being punished and objected to. Explain the Hebrew text difference from KJV or other.please. Can’t understand why any Jew would not value life as God does. ncw
The guest on the show…I got his first name, but what is his last name? I’d like to get his book when it comes out.
Michael Brown, I look forward to your friends book, and, as a past avid mountaineer agree totally with him on the impossibility of erecting a facsimile at such altitudes in the icefields of Mt. Arat. It would take a massive effort, with construction weight bearing heliocopters, a massive supply base, considerable construction crews and equipment, etc. unknown in that part of the world. It would take intention beyond the mere desires of a few guides. There are the preexisting aerial and satellite anomolies, the accounts of eyewitnesses over centuries, and the literal receeding of the waters and the settling of the Ark. High altitude is about weather’s merciless hammering of the futile potentials of human efforts, about humans preparing for survival alone in such winter conditions, and about risk and the need for a technically savvy approach to the challenges involved.
The Chinese team did embrace the weather window, the glacer ice field risks and conditions for exploration, and worked as a team. Their hearts and minds were not predisposed to fabricate reality, they entered the permeations of the glacer and the secrets only time could create.
I am surprised there are not more comments on this topic. I find it fascinating. I don’t know that it would be the greatest archaelogical discovery ever, but it certainly significant. I have seen a few specials on the Ark of the Covenant may actually be in Ethopia, but we can’t examine it. The Ark’s discovery does have potential to affect how we look at history. I suspect that the impact will be to verify there was a local flood and the Ark is less than a Biblical myth. The larger questions of a global flood will have a much wider challenge. Still, I think this is terribly exciting stuff.
I was just wondering if it’s possible there was some kind of old mining up there that might explain what this is about. I still wonder about when people tell about things they say they saw if they are true or not.
In this age of video recorders and such I should think that if there is an ark of Noah still remaining, or clear evidence of it somewhere in those mountains and someone has found it, that we should be seeing it on video sometime soon, unless it’s usually under snow or ice, or some other weather related reasons.
What I had seen in the past on TV is some pictures of a dark shadow in a mountainous region which really looked like nothing to me, and lots of people giving testimony of what they saw…along with a piece of wood.
I think it’s awesome that the Lord has left further proof of His testimony. You can go to the team’s website to see the pictures of the wood and the compartments. It’s at http://www.araratdiscovery.com
I signed up for the book when it comes out. I love a mystery, especially the mystery of God. Mysteries keep us in wonder of God’s creation and in awe of the miraculous.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Sheila, thank you for the website. I went there and saw a few pictures which seemed rather dark to me. I couldn’t make much of them. Maybe we will be getting better pictures in the future of whatever it is.
Maybe others can make more of it than I could.
Yeah, I hope his book has a lot more to offer. I’m somewhat surprised that Turkey let the researchers get as far as they did. I imagine they are thinking of the tourist money.
Sheila,are you familiar with Ron Wyatt’s findings, or claims about the ark of Noah?
I found Ron Wyatt’s information on findings of some of the things mentioned in the Bible about 14 years ago. At the time I thought his information gave the most “evidence” of something, many things that could be what the Bible has spoken of.
Lots of his “findings” are quite amazing. I don’t know how accurate they are, or if they really are what he has claimed them to be.
Search for the earlier posting on the ARK on this website, as a topic of past pursuit. Ron W., and most of the controversies on his, and many other researchers are discussed in depth by many leads and postings there. What is new is the soon coming of the Chinese to Charlotte. In addition to the ticketed seminar, perhaps they will hold a news conference??? It seems like a new opportunity for clarifications from this Spring’s Press conferences. Has a nonprofit fund been declared to aid donations for this effort?
I think it’s important because belief must be rooted in fact. If there has been a flood we should see some evidence of it. If we see no evidence, then either there is a problem with our eyes (we haven’t found it yet) etc., or our beliefs re: the flood is wrong.
archeology is one limb. other branches of science and thinking, should, I hope, corroborate this and each other.
This doesn’t add to my belief in God (just look at Creation and see God’s handywork!!) and I sadly have little faith that it will persuade any unbelievers, (at least that I know) of the reality of God, but it certainly does sound exciting!!! 🙂
Re: Ron Wyatt, I thought that the claims about his discoveries had been disproved…..
Jabez,
I haven’t taken the time to read anything by Wyatt. I’ve read about several expeditions from years ago, but, nothing recent, so, I hope the new book is thorough. People that know me call to let me know whenever any special comes on the tube.
It’s cool to think the Lord sealed this up until the time of the end. And just like the researcher who had fallen out of faith, maybe this will reawaken some other people. Always a good thing!
I can’t help but be reminded of an abscure (if there is such a thing) verse in the Bible about God’s “treasures hid in the sand”. Of course, this is hid on the top of a mountain, but, when I first read it I thought of archeaology. I subscribe to “Biblical Archeology” magazine and although the “evidence” is scarce, you never know…
Just finished reading, “The Signature of God”, by Grant Jeffrey. Lots of very interesting tidbits of various finds that historians had previously doubted because they were only mentioned in the bible and now they find them etched in stone.
I apologize. I meant to answer to Ray above.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to this show yet but here are a few relevant links:
The two explorations of reference, this year, and of Ron Wyatt of past decades both have plausible theories of possibility, and doubt. Time will tell. Just because Wyatt had a sensational and stretched history, when detaching from this reputation, the actual theory and context of his placement is also a possibility. This includes scientific trace studies on the shape and sediment of discovery, a historiography and lore of the area of discovery, the anchor/ballast theory, etc.–all equally as plausible as the possibilities and potentials of the icefield on Mountain potential. Sadly, the siting on the Mountain could be a mixture of present hoax with actual literal deposits from history. Without further investments of resources and expertise, we may not know “all you need to know’ in our own lifetimes on these matters of dispute.
But when not one of Wyatt’s many grand “discoveries” can be verified then that is all I need to know about him. The guy was a fraud.
As for the latest Ark discovery you can see for yourself the milling marks on the wood in the photos on the CMI article. How do you explain that? That Noah had access to modern machinery when building the Ark? I don’t think so.
The other thing I might add, is that whilst I agreed with some of what the guest on this show had to say, the whole idea that anyone could find archaeological evidence for Noah’s Flood is flawed and presupposes that the Flood was tranquil in nature and did not hardly disturb the topography of the Earth. But the Flood as the Bible describes it must have been catastrophic in its effect on the Earth and as such all evidence of pre-Flood human civilisation would have been destroyed. To suggest that the pyramids date from before the Flood is absurd.
In short, there is no archaeological evidence for Noah’s Flood, but there is plenty of geological evidence for it. Try the entire geological column and fossil record for starters! http://creation.com/genesis-and-catastrophe
I request prayer for the Chinese group claiming the spring 2010 report of discovery. They, in fact, did not attend the US National Apologetics Conference, primarily because they did not wish to be recorded (which I can understand due to dealing with the Turkish and Chinese governments, as to continuing to access the discovery in the future). Like many so-called discoverers prior, their claims are now matters of great controversy. If this is “the real deal” our prayers should request that the Father continue to open its discovery to greater view.
The Parasut/NAMI Noah’s Ark in an ice cave is a total fraud first conceived of by the Chinese and Parasut in 2004. Everyone around the Ararat area and Dogubayazit, Turkey, know this. If they go on public record, they risk their lives. This is a small town.
Amy, thanks for your post, but those are very strong claims, and my researchers have told me the opposite, namely that the fraud is on the side of those who deny the discovery. (On my end, I simply ask, “Could this be the real thing?”)
May I ask you candidly if you have had any past or present professional or non-professional affiliation with scholars like Randall Price, who also made a similar fraud claim? This will be helpful for our readers to know, especially we always aim for full disclosure.
My statements are intended to be strong so there is no doubt. They are not “claims,” they are facts. I have interviewed a number of people in Dogubayazit who told me about the fraud. They were directly involved in planning it. As stated before, they risk their livelihoods and lives if they state it publicly. That is why some people “recanted” their statements, which were in fact, true.
Parasut and the Ceven family are now sending family members to pressure me and try to intimidate me. Harrassment techniques include posting my phone number online with “sexy photo and blog”. Very Christian of them!
I notice a number of websites now adding PayPal to donate to the fraudulent NAMI/Parasut search and excavation. It’s a con in the name of religion. Shame on everyone who promotes this scam.
I met Randall Price in 2011. He has no bearing on my own conclusions, but I support his statements entirely.
Lets keep it simple . You pick two people you trust with archological credentials let Randall Price pick two people and one from university in Turkey let Parasut take these people to the site and if three out of five of these scholars agree that it is the Ark then the other side apologize and let’s let our Christain brothers move on with leading people to Jesus in a unified effort.
I have created a webpage with links to the primary sources of those exposing the NAMI/MEDIA Noah’s Ark fraud. I keep it updated and readers may send me links to new exposures of the fraud.
There are many other players involved in this fraud that goes back to at least 2004. They know who they are. This week Ahmet Ertugrul ‘ParaÅŸut’ raised his threat level to me, stating he will kill me if I return to Istanbul or Dogubayazit. In private, he does not defend the Ark discovery as true. Instead, he stated to another Kurdish friend, ‘I make a lot of money with my lies. Why is Amy angry because of my lies? I don’t know her.’ The last part is a lie, too. I first met ParaÅŸut in 2007, then again March 14, 2011, when he picked me up at the Istanbul airport.
When the truth begins to leak out, people start jumping ship. To quote ParaÅŸut ‘the partner sheep is break down’ with NAMI and Holland group.
In answer to Cowboy’s comment, above, the majority rule is not equivalent to truth. What a silly suggestion. It’s about as scientific as the pseudo-science blather I’ve been reading about Noah’s Ark being discovered up there on Ararat.
And just so there is no doubt in anyone’s mind, when I call Joel David Klenck a liar I use the word with full intent of its meaning. I looked it up along with synonyms:
has been removed from Youtube because it violated the terms of service.
Got another link?
Shalom
Amy,
Whether you are in error or speaking accurately, you should know that we don’t allow defamatory posts against a group or individual on this thread. (BTW, I haven’t the least vested interest in this subject on a personal level, and I would be posting this same comment here had you attacked Dr. Price in this way.) That being said, if you want to continue to post here, simply put up links you feel are relevant and raise objections without using words like “fraudulent.” Thanks!
I pray that Ray is alright, we haven’t heard from him lately.
But I’m wondering about the photos from the Ark website. They look real to me. I’m waiting for the paperback book due to be released on Feb. 15, 2012.
Amy, have you read the author’s book?
I have reviewed Amy’s website and certainly a video there does put one American self publicist in doubt, but does not necessarily put the Chinese explorers in doubt. Recall too that they have a prominant Dutch Archeologist agreeing. Even the person Amy has taken to task, whose motives seem unreliable, and personal economy tainted, is not directly representative of the original claims of the Chinese group.
She does cue us in where the site is located, and that in general it is in caves under massive ice: an area hard to excavate at the altitude and in the rockfall area mentioned. It simply would be a great undertaking to fake wooden structure or facsimile in that environment. High altitude has exacting demands on concentration, labor, and hand precision.
As for lies and rumors in the area, perhaps what is being referenced is the general tourism guide climate, the tension between the official and the popular and area notions which have built a village and enterprise around the possibility of another petrified site potential as well. What is unclear is why no recent progress has been undertaken, where, the government of Turkey has asked for UN funding, and what is up with all of that.
Amy has uncovered one man’s lack of integrity, not the group’s, not the sites, nor the resulting photos. When will more evidence be presented? And how did Amy become a mountain guide in the area, where her vita on line claims being an IT specialist, with a related degree in education?
One of the comments on the above article, carried forward to here. “The length of the ark was 300 cubits, its breadth 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits”. This is equivalent to a length of 137.2 meters, a breadth of 22.9 meters and a height of 13.7 meters (assuming an 18″ cubit); or 152.4m, 25.4m and 15.2m (if the 20″ Egyptian cubit was used). (per Wikipedia).
The dimensions of the remains provided in the article are quite close to those of Noah’s Ark.”
Come on preservationists, let’s get this examination underway!
In reply to Bo’s question, Dec. 5, and his comment about my videos being removed from YouTube. Even without SOPA being passed, YouTube already practices heavy-handed censorship. Parasut and company complained to YouTube that the content was “inappropriate” and without investigating, they simply removed the video. That’s their policy. It’s too costly and bothersome for YouTube to investigate; simpler to disable videos. So much for the free flow of information. I reposted the videos of Parasut and Joel Klenck at http://www.mountainararattrek.com/ark.
In reply to Jebez H., I certainly did not mean to imply that there actually is a “room in an ice cave” as seen from camp 2 on Mount Ararat. What you do see are about 2 dozen trenches cut in the rocks. I am sure in 2012 we will be identifying publicly where the photos of the Chinese man wearing an orange coat in a room with a wooden wall were actually taken. Most people in Dogubayazit say that photo was taken miles away from Mount Ararat, near the Black Sea.
I will say that my posting #30 seems to be a posting as Amy describes it to be of J.K. in the third person. I must have been tired when not putting this together with the video and reported journal pages attributed to J.K. which she past posted on her site. If these were J.K.’s journal pages, photographed as supposedly left behind while he was missing from a guided camps leveled trek exploration near the site mentioned, then in fact the video of his interview with the represented authorities in Turkey after the reported fact of his AWOL from the guided tour are indeed incongruent with the supposed photos of his supposed journal pages.
The lingering concerns remain, however, about how Amy obtained these pages (if J.K.’s was their consent on going into his possessions supposedly in the camp in his absence?)? If J.K. is an authentic palentologist, and of questionable integrity–if so–where is the linkage of complicity with a supposed conspiracy? And, if the group from China and its Hong Kong were somehow duped by their guides, if so, where is the linkage proving their own integrity being in doubt? If anything, if in fact their photos are what they beheld in the rock and ice causeway, with large caves and ice covered wooden structures, we have to remain open for further exploration of the site.
Dr. Price also published a retraction on his own statements on the Turkish guides Amy names, due to their open disagreement with him: as attributing some written correspondence remarks to them (which they claimed they did not compose). The Chinese group site cites this dispute, and still stands by their photos as being generated from the rock and ice causeway site.
I wonder if the American Alpine Institute, Golden, Colorado, could be solicited as a neutral third party to provide an internationally recognized team to validate or invalidate the supposed as reported site? Certainly their integrity is unquestionable.
As for having vesting in the discovery, if valid, all people of faith have such vesting, and hope: faith being the substance of things hoped for, yet unseen in present moments when faith is in formation. I fully understand Dr. Brown’s concerns and wonder if a posting on academic integrity could be posted as a website of reference for all empiracle assertions advanced or made by any and all commenters here, to be a standard for such discovery and assertion over time.
Whether it be M.B., A.B., J.K, S.C., J.H. or anyone commenting here, we all hope for further news from the higher regions of Turkey or the area, where Biblical Archeology has a vested interest. Whatever the case, greetings to all who hold faith dear, hope, and love in central regard of life pursuit.
Thanks for your post, Jabez. As for Dr. Beam’s comments in #33 (“Most people in Dogubayazit say that photo was taken miles away from Mount Ararat, near the Black Sea”), are we to assume that “most people” in that city (with a reported population of more than 115,000) have been interviewed on the subject, that “most people” have accurate knowledge as to the origins of the photo, and that they have testified accordingly (“Most people . . . say”)? Is that really meant to be a scientific, careful statement that is to be taken seriously?
Hi Jabez,
I certainly hope for further news. I think it’s just like God to keep some treasures sealed away for these times when the truth of Scripture and of His Power is called into question! Yeap, just like God to do that. 🙂
I received my first stripes recently–I’m “holding fast to my profession” (and confession of Faith!).
Now that the 2912 area climbing season has wound down, what’s up with this pursuit of an Ark?
Regarding Joel Klenck’s false accusations that I and my Turkish business partners stole money from him, the court in Dogubeyazit agreed that it was not true and dismissed his charges in May 2012. Regarding Hakan Bosboga, a former business partner, he still owes me money loaned for his business license, for which he has failed to pay his back taxes. Readers may read the full details of the fraud of the Noah’s Ark discovery at http://www.mountainararattrek.com. I stand by my statements. If you want to climb Mount Ararat, please visit http://www.mountararattrek.com. Honestly, I don’t think there is anyone left who believes it.
I listen 9-10onwaijradio Very interesting. ? about the Eshdus 21’22-23. Hebrew is unclear that the baby death is the one being punished and objected to. Explain the Hebrew text difference from KJV or other.please. Can’t understand why any Jew would not value life as God does.
I listen 9-10onwaijradio Very interesting. ? about the Exodus 21’22-23. Hebrew is unclear that the baby death is the one being punished and objected to. Explain the Hebrew text difference from KJV or other.please. Can’t understand why any Jew would not value life as God does.
ncw
The guest on the show…I got his first name, but what is his last name? I’d like to get his book when it comes out.
Michael Brown, I look forward to your friends book, and, as a past avid mountaineer agree totally with him on the impossibility of erecting a facsimile at such altitudes in the icefields of Mt. Arat. It would take a massive effort, with construction weight bearing heliocopters, a massive supply base, considerable construction crews and equipment, etc. unknown in that part of the world. It would take intention beyond the mere desires of a few guides. There are the preexisting aerial and satellite anomolies, the accounts of eyewitnesses over centuries, and the literal receeding of the waters and the settling of the Ark. High altitude is about weather’s merciless hammering of the futile potentials of human efforts, about humans preparing for survival alone in such winter conditions, and about risk and the need for a technically savvy approach to the challenges involved.
The Chinese team did embrace the weather window, the glacer ice field risks and conditions for exploration, and worked as a team. Their hearts and minds were not predisposed to fabricate reality, they entered the permeations of the glacer and the secrets only time could create.
I am surprised there are not more comments on this topic. I find it fascinating. I don’t know that it would be the greatest archaelogical discovery ever, but it certainly significant. I have seen a few specials on the Ark of the Covenant may actually be in Ethopia, but we can’t examine it. The Ark’s discovery does have potential to affect how we look at history. I suspect that the impact will be to verify there was a local flood and the Ark is less than a Biblical myth. The larger questions of a global flood will have a much wider challenge. Still, I think this is terribly exciting stuff.
I was just wondering if it’s possible there was some kind of old mining up there that might explain what this is about. I still wonder about when people tell about things they say they saw if they are true or not.
In this age of video recorders and such I should think that if there is an ark of Noah still remaining, or clear evidence of it somewhere in those mountains and someone has found it, that we should be seeing it on video sometime soon, unless it’s usually under snow or ice, or some other weather related reasons.
What I had seen in the past on TV is some pictures of a dark shadow in a mountainous region which really looked like nothing to me, and lots of people giving testimony of what they saw…along with a piece of wood.
I think it’s awesome that the Lord has left further proof of His testimony. You can go to the team’s website to see the pictures of the wood and the compartments. It’s at http://www.araratdiscovery.com
I signed up for the book when it comes out. I love a mystery, especially the mystery of God. Mysteries keep us in wonder of God’s creation and in awe of the miraculous.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Sheila, thank you for the website. I went there and saw a few pictures which seemed rather dark to me. I couldn’t make much of them. Maybe we will be getting better pictures in the future of whatever it is.
Maybe others can make more of it than I could.
Yeah, I hope his book has a lot more to offer. I’m somewhat surprised that Turkey let the researchers get as far as they did. I imagine they are thinking of the tourist money.
Sheila,are you familiar with Ron Wyatt’s findings, or claims about the ark of Noah?
I found Ron Wyatt’s information on findings of some of the things mentioned in the Bible about
14 years ago. At the time I thought his information gave the most “evidence” of something, many things that could be what the Bible has spoken of.
Lots of his “findings” are quite amazing. I don’t know how accurate they are, or if they really are what he has claimed them to be.
Search for the earlier posting on the ARK on this website, as a topic of past pursuit. Ron W., and most of the controversies on his, and many other researchers are discussed in depth by many leads and postings there. What is new is the soon coming of the Chinese to Charlotte. In addition to the ticketed seminar, perhaps they will hold a news conference??? It seems like a new opportunity for clarifications from this Spring’s Press conferences. Has a nonprofit fund been declared to aid donations for this effort?
I think it’s important because belief must be rooted in fact. If there has been a flood we should see some evidence of it. If we see no evidence, then either there is a problem with our eyes (we haven’t found it yet) etc., or our beliefs re: the flood is wrong.
archeology is one limb. other branches of science and thinking, should, I hope, corroborate this and each other.
This doesn’t add to my belief in God (just look at Creation and see God’s handywork!!) and I sadly have little faith that it will persuade any unbelievers, (at least that I know) of the reality of God, but it certainly does sound exciting!!! 🙂
Re: Ron Wyatt, I thought that the claims about his discoveries had been disproved…..
Jabez,
I haven’t taken the time to read anything by Wyatt. I’ve read about several expeditions from years ago, but, nothing recent, so, I hope the new book is thorough. People that know me call to let me know whenever any special comes on the tube.
It’s cool to think the Lord sealed this up until the time of the end. And just like the researcher who had fallen out of faith, maybe this will reawaken some other people. Always a good thing!
I can’t help but be reminded of an abscure (if there is such a thing) verse in the Bible about God’s “treasures hid in the sand”. Of course, this is hid on the top of a mountain, but, when I first read it I thought of archeaology. I subscribe to “Biblical Archeology” magazine and although the “evidence” is scarce, you never know…
Just finished reading, “The Signature of God”, by Grant Jeffrey. Lots of very interesting tidbits of various finds that historians had previously doubted because they were only mentioned in the bible and now they find them etched in stone.
I apologize. I meant to answer to Ray above.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to this show yet but here are a few relevant links:
CMI has an update (Sept 29) on the Ark ‘discovery’:
http://creation.com/noahs-ark-or-what
Also, regarding the claims of Ron Wyatt all you need to know is here:
http://creation.com/has-the-ark-of-the-covenant-been-found
The two explorations of reference, this year, and of Ron Wyatt of past decades both have plausible theories of possibility, and doubt. Time will tell. Just because Wyatt had a sensational and stretched history, when detaching from this reputation, the actual theory and context of his placement is also a possibility. This includes scientific trace studies on the shape and sediment of discovery, a historiography and lore of the area of discovery, the anchor/ballast theory, etc.–all equally as plausible as the possibilities and potentials of the icefield on Mountain potential. Sadly, the siting on the Mountain could be a mixture of present hoax with actual literal deposits from history. Without further investments of resources and expertise, we may not know “all you need to know’ in our own lifetimes on these matters of dispute.
But when not one of Wyatt’s many grand “discoveries” can be verified then that is all I need to know about him. The guy was a fraud.
As for the latest Ark discovery you can see for yourself the milling marks on the wood in the photos on the CMI article. How do you explain that? That Noah had access to modern machinery when building the Ark? I don’t think so.
The other thing I might add, is that whilst I agreed with some of what the guest on this show had to say, the whole idea that anyone could find archaeological evidence for Noah’s Flood is flawed and presupposes that the Flood was tranquil in nature and did not hardly disturb the topography of the Earth. But the Flood as the Bible describes it must have been catastrophic in its effect on the Earth and as such all evidence of pre-Flood human civilisation would have been destroyed. To suggest that the pyramids date from before the Flood is absurd.
In short, there is no archaeological evidence for Noah’s Flood, but there is plenty of geological evidence for it. Try the entire geological column and fossil record for starters!
http://creation.com/genesis-and-catastrophe
I request prayer for the Chinese group claiming the spring 2010 report of discovery. They, in fact, did not attend the US National Apologetics Conference, primarily because they did not wish to be recorded (which I can understand due to dealing with the Turkish and Chinese governments, as to continuing to access the discovery in the future). Like many so-called discoverers prior, their claims are now matters of great controversy. If this is “the real deal” our prayers should request that the Father continue to open its discovery to greater view.
The Parasut/NAMI Noah’s Ark in an ice cave is a total fraud first conceived of by the Chinese and Parasut in 2004. Everyone around the Ararat area and Dogubayazit, Turkey, know this. If they go on public record, they risk their lives. This is a small town.
From camp 2 on Mt. Ararat, you can view the excavation site where the movie was made. See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOA3tr99zfU
Amy, thanks for your post, but those are very strong claims, and my researchers have told me the opposite, namely that the fraud is on the side of those who deny the discovery. (On my end, I simply ask, “Could this be the real thing?”)
May I ask you candidly if you have had any past or present professional or non-professional affiliation with scholars like Randall Price, who also made a similar fraud claim? This will be helpful for our readers to know, especially we always aim for full disclosure.
My statements are intended to be strong so there is no doubt. They are not “claims,” they are facts. I have interviewed a number of people in Dogubayazit who told me about the fraud. They were directly involved in planning it. As stated before, they risk their livelihoods and lives if they state it publicly. That is why some people “recanted” their statements, which were in fact, true.
Parasut and the Ceven family are now sending family members to pressure me and try to intimidate me. Harrassment techniques include posting my phone number online with “sexy photo and blog”. Very Christian of them!
I notice a number of websites now adding PayPal to donate to the fraudulent NAMI/Parasut search and excavation. It’s a con in the name of religion. Shame on everyone who promotes this scam.
View my video of Parasut’s site and email at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCSnqjMcDc.
I met Randall Price in 2011. He has no bearing on my own conclusions, but I support his statements entirely.
Lets keep it simple . You pick two people you trust with archological credentials let Randall Price pick two people and one from university in Turkey let Parasut take these people to the site and if three out of five of these scholars agree that it is the Ark then the other side apologize and let’s let our Christain brothers move on with leading people to Jesus in a unified effort.
I have created a webpage with links to the primary sources of those exposing the NAMI/MEDIA Noah’s Ark fraud. I keep it updated and readers may send me links to new exposures of the fraud.
http://www.mountainararattrek.com/ark
There are many other players involved in this fraud that goes back to at least 2004. They know who they are. This week Ahmet Ertugrul ‘ParaÅŸut’ raised his threat level to me, stating he will kill me if I return to Istanbul or Dogubayazit. In private, he does not defend the Ark discovery as true. Instead, he stated to another Kurdish friend, ‘I make a lot of money with my lies. Why is Amy angry because of my lies? I don’t know her.’ The last part is a lie, too. I first met ParaÅŸut in 2007, then again March 14, 2011, when he picked me up at the Istanbul airport.
When the truth begins to leak out, people start jumping ship. To quote ParaÅŸut ‘the partner sheep is break down’ with NAMI and Holland group.
In answer to Cowboy’s comment, above, the majority rule is not equivalent to truth. What a silly suggestion. It’s about as scientific as the pseudo-science blather I’ve been reading about Noah’s Ark being discovered up there on Ararat.
And just so there is no doubt in anyone’s mind, when I call Joel David Klenck a liar I use the word with full intent of its meaning. I looked it up along with synonyms:
Definition: person who tells falsehood
Synonyms: cheat, con artist, deceiver, deluder, dissimulator, equivocator, fabler, fabricator, fabulist, false witness, falsifier, fibber, maligner, misleader, perjurer, phony, prevaricator, promoter, storyteller, trickster
Stay tuned. There’s more to the story.
Dr. Amy L. Beam
Dr. Amy L. Beam,
The link you provide above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCSnqjMcDc
has been removed from Youtube because it violated the terms of service.
Got another link?
Shalom
Amy,
Whether you are in error or speaking accurately, you should know that we don’t allow defamatory posts against a group or individual on this thread. (BTW, I haven’t the least vested interest in this subject on a personal level, and I would be posting this same comment here had you attacked Dr. Price in this way.) That being said, if you want to continue to post here, simply put up links you feel are relevant and raise objections without using words like “fraudulent.” Thanks!
I pray that Ray is alright, we haven’t heard from him lately.
But I’m wondering about the photos from the Ark website. They look real to me. I’m waiting for the paperback book due to be released on Feb. 15, 2012.
Amy, have you read the author’s book?
I have reviewed Amy’s website and certainly a video there does put one American self publicist in doubt, but does not necessarily put the Chinese explorers in doubt. Recall too that they have a prominant Dutch Archeologist agreeing. Even the person Amy has taken to task, whose motives seem unreliable, and personal economy tainted, is not directly representative of the original claims of the Chinese group.
She does cue us in where the site is located, and that in general it is in caves under massive ice: an area hard to excavate at the altitude and in the rockfall area mentioned. It simply would be a great undertaking to fake wooden structure or facsimile in that environment. High altitude has exacting demands on concentration, labor, and hand precision.
As for lies and rumors in the area, perhaps what is being referenced is the general tourism guide climate, the tension between the official and the popular and area notions which have built a village and enterprise around the possibility of another petrified site potential as well. What is unclear is why no recent progress has been undertaken, where, the government of Turkey has asked for UN funding, and what is up with all of that.
Amy has uncovered one man’s lack of integrity, not the group’s, not the sites, nor the resulting photos. When will more evidence be presented? And how did Amy become a mountain guide in the area, where her vita on line claims being an IT specialist, with a related degree in education?
The debate on the evidence continues. Now with an Ivy League professor weighing in positively. See: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2817909/posts
One of the comments on the above article, carried forward to here. “The length of the ark was 300 cubits, its breadth 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits”. This is equivalent to a length of 137.2 meters, a breadth of 22.9 meters and a height of 13.7 meters (assuming an 18″ cubit); or 152.4m, 25.4m and 15.2m (if the 20″ Egyptian cubit was used). (per Wikipedia).
The dimensions of the remains provided in the article are quite close to those of Noah’s Ark.”
Come on preservationists, let’s get this examination underway!
In reply to Bo’s question, Dec. 5, and his comment about my videos being removed from YouTube. Even without SOPA being passed, YouTube already practices heavy-handed censorship. Parasut and company complained to YouTube that the content was “inappropriate” and without investigating, they simply removed the video. That’s their policy. It’s too costly and bothersome for YouTube to investigate; simpler to disable videos. So much for the free flow of information. I reposted the videos of Parasut and Joel Klenck at http://www.mountainararattrek.com/ark.
In reply to Jebez H., I certainly did not mean to imply that there actually is a “room in an ice cave” as seen from camp 2 on Mount Ararat. What you do see are about 2 dozen trenches cut in the rocks. I am sure in 2012 we will be identifying publicly where the photos of the Chinese man wearing an orange coat in a room with a wooden wall were actually taken. Most people in Dogubayazit say that photo was taken miles away from Mount Ararat, near the Black Sea.
I will say that my posting #30 seems to be a posting as Amy describes it to be of J.K. in the third person. I must have been tired when not putting this together with the video and reported journal pages attributed to J.K. which she past posted on her site. If these were J.K.’s journal pages, photographed as supposedly left behind while he was missing from a guided camps leveled trek exploration near the site mentioned, then in fact the video of his interview with the represented authorities in Turkey after the reported fact of his AWOL from the guided tour are indeed incongruent with the supposed photos of his supposed journal pages.
The lingering concerns remain, however, about how Amy obtained these pages (if J.K.’s was their consent on going into his possessions supposedly in the camp in his absence?)? If J.K. is an authentic palentologist, and of questionable integrity–if so–where is the linkage of complicity with a supposed conspiracy? And, if the group from China and its Hong Kong were somehow duped by their guides, if so, where is the linkage proving their own integrity being in doubt? If anything, if in fact their photos are what they beheld in the rock and ice causeway, with large caves and ice covered wooden structures, we have to remain open for further exploration of the site.
Dr. Price also published a retraction on his own statements on the Turkish guides Amy names, due to their open disagreement with him: as attributing some written correspondence remarks to them (which they claimed they did not compose). The Chinese group site cites this dispute, and still stands by their photos as being generated from the rock and ice causeway site.
I wonder if the American Alpine Institute, Golden, Colorado, could be solicited as a neutral third party to provide an internationally recognized team to validate or invalidate the supposed as reported site? Certainly their integrity is unquestionable.
As for having vesting in the discovery, if valid, all people of faith have such vesting, and hope: faith being the substance of things hoped for, yet unseen in present moments when faith is in formation. I fully understand Dr. Brown’s concerns and wonder if a posting on academic integrity could be posted as a website of reference for all empiracle assertions advanced or made by any and all commenters here, to be a standard for such discovery and assertion over time.
Whether it be M.B., A.B., J.K, S.C., J.H. or anyone commenting here, we all hope for further news from the higher regions of Turkey or the area, where Biblical Archeology has a vested interest. Whatever the case, greetings to all who hold faith dear, hope, and love in central regard of life pursuit.
Thanks for your post, Jabez. As for Dr. Beam’s comments in #33 (“Most people in Dogubayazit say that photo was taken miles away from Mount Ararat, near the Black Sea”), are we to assume that “most people” in that city (with a reported population of more than 115,000) have been interviewed on the subject, that “most people” have accurate knowledge as to the origins of the photo, and that they have testified accordingly (“Most people . . . say”)? Is that really meant to be a scientific, careful statement that is to be taken seriously?
Hi Jabez,
I certainly hope for further news. I think it’s just like God to keep some treasures sealed away for these times when the truth of Scripture and of His Power is called into question! Yeap, just like God to do that. 🙂
I received my first stripes recently–I’m “holding fast to my profession” (and confession of Faith!).
To Amy L. Beam
Are you the same Amy L Beam in this article?
http://hostelfromhell.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/amy-l-beam-is-a-scam-artist-and-fraud/
Also this one
http://amybeam.blogspot.com.au/
Now that the 2912 area climbing season has wound down, what’s up with this pursuit of an Ark?
Regarding Joel Klenck’s false accusations that I and my Turkish business partners stole money from him, the court in Dogubeyazit agreed that it was not true and dismissed his charges in May 2012. Regarding Hakan Bosboga, a former business partner, he still owes me money loaned for his business license, for which he has failed to pay his back taxes. Readers may read the full details of the fraud of the Noah’s Ark discovery at http://www.mountainararattrek.com. I stand by my statements. If you want to climb Mount Ararat, please visit http://www.mountararattrek.com. Honestly, I don’t think there is anyone left who believes it.
Correction: Readers may read the full details of the fraud of the Noah’s Ark discovery at http://www.mountainararattrek.com/ark