I’m a little envious that you got to see video footage of the alleged Ark discovery. To your knowledge, did they discover any evidence of animals being on board this structure?
The Genesis account claims that animals (potentially thousands of them) lived on this ship for well over a year…so it seems like there would be obvious signs that animals were onboard (e.g. claw marks, birds’ nests, feathers, etc.)
Was any of that discussed during the private showing?
I’d seen the Flotilla Choir’s video on YouTube and liked it. However, I couldn’t remember the lyrics of the original We Are The World for comparison, so I went and looked them up.
And what a shock I got: somethin’ sure ain’t right there…
…Anyone else spot it? (I imagine it will leap out and slap most readers of this blog in the face, but it’s amazing that no-one in the entire Tinseltown team involved in producing the record recognised the mistake.) …Funny and sad at the same time.
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon on this site, but you and your listeners/readers need to hear the truth about the flotilla attack from an eyewitness. It completely contradicts the statements made by the Israeli govt and the IDF.
This is the statement made by Ken O’Keefe who was on the ship that IDF commandos attacked.
Reflections by a Former US Marine on the Mavi Marmara
On Cowardice and Violence
By KEN O’KEEFE
Istanbul
In 2002 I initiated the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq because I knew that the invasion of Iraq had been planned well in advance, that it was part of a ‘Global Spectrum Dominance’ agenda as laid out by the Project For A New American Century. I knew that protests had no chance of stopping the invasion, and that largely these protests were just a way of making us feel better about the coming mass murder; by being able to say “I protested against it.” With that understanding I argued that the only viable way to stop the invasion was to conduct a mass migration to Iraq. A migration in which people from around the world, especially western citizens, would position themselves at sites in Iraq that are supposed to be protected by international law, but which are routinely bombed when it is only Iraqi, Palestinian, generally non-white, western lives who will be killed. I felt 10,000 such people could stop the invasion, or at the very least, expose the invasion for what it was from the start, an act of international aggression, a war crime and a crime against humanity.
I have for many years understood that we, people of conscience, are the true holders of power in this world. Frustratingly however we have largely relinquished that power and failed to reach our full potential. Our potential to create a better world, a just world. Nonetheless I have conspired with others of like mind to reveal and exercise our true power.
When our two double decker busses travelled from London to Baghdad through Turkey, it was ever clear that the people of Turkey also could sense the power of this act, and they were the biggest participants in it. In the end we did not get the numbers required to stop the war, with at least one million Iraqi’s dead as a result, but I remain convinced that it was within our power to prevent the invasion. A massive opportunity lost as far as I am concerned.
In 2007 I joined the Free Gaza Movement with its plan to challenge the blockade of Gaza by travelling to Gaza by sea. From the moment I heard of the plan I knew it could succeed and ultimately I served as a captain on the first attempt. The Israeli government said throughout our preparation that we were no better than pirates and they would treat us as such. They made clear we would not reach Gaza. And still I knew we could succeed. And we did. Two boats with 46 passengers from various countries managed to sail into Gaza on August 23, 2007; this was the first time this had been done in 41 years.
The truth is the blockade of Gaza is far more than three years old, and yet we, a small group of conscientious people defied the Israeli machine and celebrated with tens of thousands of Gazans when we arrived that day. We proved that it could be done. We proved that an intelligent plan, with skilled manipulation of the media, could render the full might of the Israeli Navy useless. And I knew then that this was only the tip of the iceberg.
So participating in the Freedom Flotilla is like a family reunion to me. It is my long lost family whose conscience is their guide, who have shed the fear, who act with humanity. But I was especially proud to join IHH and the Turkish elements of the flotilla. I deeply admire the strength and character of the Turkish people, despite your history having stains of injustice, like every nation, you are today from citizen to Prime Minister among the leaders in the cause of humanity and justice.
I remember being asked during the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq if I was a pacifist, I responded with a quote from Gandhi by saying I am not a passive anything. To the contrary I believe in action, and I also believe in self-defence, 100 per cent, without reservation. I would be incapable of standing by while a tyrant murders my family, and the attack on the Mavi Marmara was like an attack on my Palestinian family. I am proud to have stood shoulder to shoulder with those who refused to let a rogue Israeli military exert their will without a fight.
And yes, we fought.
When I was asked, in the event of an Israeli attack on the Mavi Marmara, would I use the camera, or would I defend the ship? I enthusiastically committed to defence of the ship. Although I am also a huge supporter of non-violence, in fact I believe non-violence must always be the first option. Nonetheless I joined the defence of the Mavi Mamara understanding that violence could be used against us and that we may very well be compelled to use violence in self defence.
I said this straight to Israeli agents, probably of Mossad or Shin Bet, and I say it again now, on the morning of the attack I was directly involved in the disarming of two Israeli Commandos. This was a forcible, non-negotiable, separation of weapons from commandos who had already murdered two brothers that I had seen that day. One brother with a bullet entering dead center in his forehead, in what appeared to be an execution.
I knew the commandos were murdering when I removed a 9mm pistol from one of them. I had that gun in my hands and as an ex-US Marine with training in the use of guns it was completely within my power to use that gun on the commando who may have been the murderer of one of my brothers. But that is not what I, nor any other defender of the ship did. I took that weapon away, removed the bullets, proper lead bullets, separated them from the weapon and hid the gun. I did this in the hopes that we would repel the attack and submit this weapon as evidence in a criminal trial against Israeli authorities for mass murder. I also helped to physically separate one commando from his assault rifle, which another brother apparently threw into the sea.
I and hundreds of others know the truth that makes a mockery of the brave and moral Israeli military. We had in our full possession, three completely disarmed and helpless commandos. These boys were at our mercy, they were out of reach of their fellow murderers, inside the ship and surrounded by 100 or more men. I looked into the eyes of all three of these boys and I can tell you they had the fear of God in them. They looked at us as if we were them, and I have no doubt they did not believe there was any way they would survive that day. They looked like frightened children in the face of an abusive father.
But they did not face an enemy as ruthless as they. Instead the woman provided basic first aid, and ultimately they were released, battered and bruised for sure, but alive. Able to live another day. Able to feel the sun over head and the embrace of loved ones. Unlike those they murdered. Despite mourning the loss of our brothers, feeling rage towards these boys, we let them go.
The Israeli prostitutes of propaganda can spew all of their disgusting bile all they wish, the commandos are the murderers, we are the defenders, and yet we fought. We fought not just for our lives, not just for our cargo, not just for the people of Palestine, we fought in the name of justice and humanity. We were right to do so, in every way.
While in Israeli custody I, along with everyone else was subjected to endless abuse and flagrant acts of disrespect. Women and elderly were physically and mentally assaulted. Access to food and water and toilets was denied. Dogs were used against us, we ourselves were treated like dogs. We were exposed to direct sun in stress positions while hand cuffed to the point of losing circulation of blood in our hands. We were lied to incessantly, in fact I am awed at the routineness and comfort in their ability to lie, it is remarkable really. We were abused in just about every way imaginable and I myself was beaten and choked to the point of blacking out… and I was beaten again while in my cell. In all this what I saw more than anything else were cowards… and yet I also see my brothers. Because no matter how vile and wrong the Israeli agents and government are, they are still my brothers and sisters and for now I only have pity for them. Because they are relinquishing the most precious thing a human being has, their humanity.
In conclusion; I would like to challenge every endorser of Gandhi, every person who thinks they understand him, who acknowledges him as one of the great souls of our time (which is just about every western leader), I challenge you in the form of a question.
Please explain how we, the defenders of the Mavi Mamara, are not the modern example of Gandhi’s essence? But first read the words of Gandhi himself. I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence…. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour. – Gandhi And lastly I have one more challenge. I challenge any critic of merit, publicly, to debate me on a large stage over our actions that day. I would especially love to debate with any Israeli leader who accuses us of wrongdoing, it would be my tremendous pleasure to face off with you. All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns, so I am ripe to see you in a new context. I want to debate with you on the largest stage possible. Take that as an open challenge and let us see just how brave Israeli leaders are.
Ken O’Keefe is a former US Marine and Gulf War veteran.
Ken’s story is further corroborated by a news report of a 19 year old US citizen shot 4 times in the head and once in the chest.
The Christian community needs to wake up already and stop blindly supporting the govt of Israel as though they are infallible. If we really want to stand with Israel, then we must be consistent with Christ’s message.
I challenge everyone who reads this to go to this website and check out everything on it.
In regard to We Are the World lyric, the only thing I saw that jumped off the page was when he mentions God changing the stone into bread! That was when the Devil said to Jesus, if you are the Son of God, turn these rocks into bread! We all know what Jesus replied to that suggestion, right?
I read the ABC article. No time this am to go to other website. Will look at it after work. So, how are we supposed to believe ANYTHING the media reports to us? I don’t know what to think anymore, not just about this issue, but about anything I see and hear on the news. So, who is really lying?
Quotes are from the withgodonourside website:
“Christian Zionists believe that God has a continuing “special” relationship with, and covenantal purposes for the Jewish people, apart from the church, and that the Jewish people have a divine right to posses the land of Israel / Palestine. This is based on a literal and futurist interpretation of the Bible and the conviction that Old Testament prophecies concerning the Jewish people are being fulfilled today in and through the contemporary secular State of Israel.”
I read the bible in a literal way and believe what the prophets have said. This does not necessarily mean that I support Israel without question.
“UN Resolutions & The Geneva Convention
There have been several UN Resolutions dealing with the Israeli / Palestinian issue. The one we would like to highlight is UN Resolution 242, which was first adapted in 1967 after the 1967 war
• Full Israeli Withdraw from lands occupied in recent conlficts. • Full recognition from Arab states of the right for Israel to exist. • Resolution and/or compensation for Palestinians refugees affected by the displacement from war.
The resolution cites the 4th Geneva Convention, article 49. The responsibilities of an occupying power (Israel) have toward peoples living under occupation. The Geneva Convention prohibits the transfer of the occupying powers population into areas that it has occupied.”
First, I don’t understand why any nation which is attacked and gains territory in it’s defense should be required to give it back. Americans have stolen a lot of territory from Native Americans and have never been required by the world to give it back. Maybe I just don’t understand war?
As for Arabs giving Israel full recognition of the right for it to exist, this will never happen as long as Muslim extremists want to blow Israel off the face of the map. Every time Israel has given land for peace they have been attacked in one way or another. Is this fair? I think if I were Israeli I would be just a little bit paranoid at this point.
There is a lot I don’t understand about wars and politics, but it seems to me that from day one there has been a united desire in the Arab world for Israel to be destroyed. Muslims once controlled Palestine and Jews having any kind of a nation in that land at all is anethema to them.
“The UN Partition plan was formulated which was to give 55% of mandate Palestine to the Jews, and 45% to the Arabs. The Jews immediately accepted the plan as “the indispensable minimum”, while Arabs rejected it as being unfair according to the population balance between Jews and Arabs at the time.”
This is not at all what I have read in the history of the conflict. I have read that the Jews were offered a much, much smaller tract of land than the Palestinian Arabs. So, I say again, which history is a person to believe?
Just a lot of questions……
I wonder if Israel would have done well to use deadly force against the Flotilla since it had been warned fairly, refused to turn away, and was in violation of the laws that were in place to govern those waters.
Suppose they had torpedoed the ship and sank it after giving it fair warning. What would be wrong with that?
It would have been a great tragedy, but maybe some people in the future would be more discerning as to what boat they get on and where it is inteded to go, and for what purpose.
Maybe it would have yielded some good things in the future though at a costly price.
About the “Captain Stabbing” video where the characters acted out their version of what is going on, I have this to say: I watched it, laughed, thought it was entertaining, and fwd’d it to others.
The following day, I realized that the song they sang was “stuck in my head”, taking occupation as if by a strength of it’s own as it appealed to my carnal weakness. I felt my heart smitten because I had sent it on to others.
Did anyone else experience similar things about what they did with this video?
It seems to me that if a people occupy a land through war and do indeed hold on to it, the world should recognize that it has gained it’s possession and that it is now, their land.
There are laws concerning real estate that speak of “adverse possession”. Adverse posession speaks of someone occupying land by force. If they can hold on to it, and the rightful owner does not use whatever means he has to force them off the property, in time it will be understood by law that it was gained by adverse posession and thereby the ownership of the property has been transferred. (or something to this effect. These are my words as I try to explain the jist of what adverse posession is about, according to my understanding. Please understand that I am not a lawyer or much into real estate law.)
It does seem to me that Israel’s land is their land and all the world would do well to understand that also.
Being a friend of Israel doesn’t mean that one is then a friend of Jesus, but for some it would be a good place to start.
Dr. Brown, Please forgive me for mentioning on this blog about how it wasn’t good for me to have passed on the video (the “Captain Stabbing” thing) on the recent Flotilla incident. I should have let you know this privately. I haven’t yet learned to live without sinning.
“I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon on this site…”
Au contraire: it was the best laugh I’ve had all day. The guy’s a nut.
Don’t you think that if there was a real “smoking gun” here, then the Israel-bashing BBC, with its tax-funded bottomless-pit resources, would have rooted it out and plastered it all over the one/six/ten o’clock news for a fortnight? It sure ain’t as though they haven’t been trying…
…So rather than trawl the mainstream websites for yet more anti-Zionist agitprop, just re-read the first sentence: “In 2002 I initiated the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq because I knew that the invasion of Iraq had been planned well in advance, that it was part of a ‘Global Spectrum Dominance’ agenda as laid out by the Project For A New American Century.”
…Just like all the other nuts who think that those evil Zionist/Conservative/Christian/American Imperialists are at root responsible for everything that’s wrong, from general personal dissatisfaction with life to the attacks on the World Trade Centre. And just listen to the guy’s prose style: it’s what we in Britain call mental. “And yes, we fought.” He sounds like a thwarted Hemingway wannabe who’s just got his big break. It’s not a dispassionate account of an international incident. It’s the rambling of a grade A nut.
And though I’m far from being one of them, I think that Gandhi’s real followers (or even those who know a bit about him) might take issue with this little pearl: “Please explain how we, the defenders of the Mavi Mamara,(sic) are not the modern example of Gandhi’s essence?” …Oh, I can just see the Mahatma now at the Dharasana satyagraha, his face flushed with fury, raising his steel-tipped lathi over a pair of British sepoys as they cower on the floor, “like frightened children in the face of an abusive father”… I wonder whether the entire account isn’t another piece of satire, to test just how gullible Israel’s detractors are…
Why are Christians so incapable of discernment these days? Has the glut of bland “worship” music rotted their brains? Come on, folks — WAKE UP! It’s not a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other: Israel is, and has been for years, locked in an asymmetric existential war, which it is losing badly — thanks partly to its rulers’ ineptness, but also to the hand-wringing witless wetness of the West whenever the latest propaganda coup hits the newspapers. The Church should be different, and shouldn’t get sucked in like the rest of the world. Yes, God is sovereign in this, and will eventually deliver His people, but He expects us to discern truth from lies.
I make no apologies if anyone’s offended by this: so many Christians are getting ever softer in the head, thinking that championing what they see as the underdog pleases God. Yet first and foremost we are to discern — to judge shrewdly. How else will we know who is the real underdog?
Jesus commands us to be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. When the world is sharpening the axe against Israel, is it really following Christ’s teaching to be repeating the defamatory paranoia of an Israel-hater? That’s the sort of “global Zionist conspiracy” trash that has the real head-hackers taking to the streets. It is not being “harmless as doves”: It does harm. …And it’s anything but wise.
Israel might be an awful place — just like my own country (the UK), and America, and all the other nations who have turned their backs on God — but it’s hardly the bloodthirsty abomination that its haters seek to make it out to be. There is a plan — and not a secret, conspiratorial plan known only to a few, but an openly avowed one declared before the world — to wipe Israel from the map. …Indeed, in the schools of Gaza the new maps are already available, telling us what the geography of the region should look like if the plan works out.
Were he here, Jesus would condemn the so-called leadership of the church for failing to discern the times. …Just as He did with the leaders of the Jews in His day: as with Israel and Judah, so with the Church. We’re doing exactly what they did. Don’t the catastrophic mistakes of our forefathers in the faith teach us anything?
Ray, I had the tune and words of the video in my head after watching it, and I’m glad I did. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.
Paul, I don’t know if you are the same Paul in both posts #2 and #10 — but I applaud both.
While no one wants to see innocent victims in the crossfire harmed (and rightly so), I know why people sympathize with the rhetoric of the Free Gaza people. It’s because they can’t conceive of the almost comic-book scenario of an evil totalitarian state driven mad over a tiny sliver of land belonging to a people who have defied their control for centuries. It sounds so improbable — like a bad sci-fi movie. So it’s hard to get some people to even entertain the notion, let alone believe it. Even when they see a video of a HAMAS spokesman passionately and unequivocably declaring that Israel must be destroyed, it somehow doesn’t soak in.
Also, the reference to the stone turning into bread — yes — not something the Lord did, though Satan suggested it so he could “prove” he was the Son of God … and being that he was fasting, the idea might have been tempting for a moment or two. If Michael wrote the lyrics, well, he WAS a “Jehovah’s Witness” for a number of years, and my experience is that they are Scripture-twisters of the first order.
Paul, I am asking for permission to reprint your letter (post #10) on a forum which is discussing Islam. Of course, it would be credited to “Paul – from another forum” or by any other designation of your choosing; that is, if it’s okay with you.
I’ll await your reply. Thanks.
Also, here is a link which really belongs on the “Mosque” Discussion, but is also pertinent here…
Dr.Brown, The words to the music are carnal, sensual and devilish. It’s not of God. Isn’t that why you said it was “dark”?
Ray, I was just wondering – are you talking about the Flotilla song lyrics in your Q. above?
I have lived long enough to know that when something doesn’t make sense it’s most likely because I don’t have all the information. The bottom line is that we will never have all the information when it comes to man’s eye-view of Israel.
My daughter and I had a go-around when the first reports of the flotilla issue surfaced. After futilely trying to get her to reserve judgment until information from the Israeli side was made available, I realized I needed to take some time to think through any further response. What came to me was, ultimately, I cannot base my response to my daughter, or anyone else, on anything other than God’s Word.
I was privileged to have spent a year in my recent past living in Jerusalem. I remember sitting at the promenade looking over the Old City thinking about how many of the “holy” places – Bethlehem, Nazareth, the Temple Mount, the Mount of Olives, etc. – are, for all intents and purposes, in Arab hands. I asked God what that was about. A short while later I went for a walk to the Old City and, while standing at the wall listening to the Muslim prayers wafting over the heads of Jews praying, I asked God again – what is this about . . . why? . . . this isn’t the way it is supposed to be. The response I sensed in my spirit was that it was about consequences. That was a hard thought for me and, as I started to ponder it, another thought broke in – but I am not finished . . . I am not done.
I value the insights and information you bring to us on this program each day, Dr. Brown. I am sure I am like many of your listeners who long to see Israel vindicated in the eyes of the world. I also value hearing the differing voices because they remind me that we need to pray for the peace of Jerusalem . . . for every Jew, Muslim, Christian, Ethiopian, Chinese, Russian, Israeli, Arab, Canadian, American, African, etc., who lives there . . because God is not finished.
The name of the Lord WILL be declared in Zion and His praise in Jerusalem when the peoples and the kingdoms assemble to worship the Lord. (Ps 102:21, 22).
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. (Rev. 21:3)
Maranatha!
Ruth, yes to your question in #15.
As Ruth last pointed out on Je. 9th, under the original posting on the floatilla here of Je. 1, Rabbis in Israel have met and consider the alignment of Turkey, Iran, and Syria an ominous sign regarding prophetic events foretold about the chosen Land and the chosen People vs. the Nations in rebellion in the Tenach.
The last one is the take on the situation from some Rabbis in Israel. The former is a very well researched excellent linguistic/etmological geographic origins piece on the origins of Gog and Magog we would be foolish to ignore. Please be urged now to Watch and Pray, and reserve three months of food and water reserves now, by summer’s end.
Scriptures in the Psalms, Isaiah, Ezkl., Obidiah, Joel, Daniel, the Revelation, Zech., etc. seem to point to a time of trouble coming for Israel. The outcome seems to be a shift to Israel, after difficulty, repositioning its importance in Prophetic fulfillments leading eventually to the Return of Yeshua and the establishment of the Kingdom promised David’s descendant from its region. The fact that Turkey has shifted its government most recently to align against Israel, with its neighbors bordering No. Israel, that the US will soon vacate Iraq–perhaps to Iran–that the cruise missile development by the Iran navy was completed by late summer 2006, then awaiting nuclear equippage, and now tests are planned against the Gaza blockade as announced by Turkey and Iran should be observed for intercession among the body of the Messiah.
Israel is not dwelling in safety, but has two local armies set to wage immediate war on two of its borders, with stockpiled thousands of rockets, who can call for other nations involvement as world opinion galvanizes against Israel (not by thought through reasoning, but by Satanic fed pure negative emotion and false religion’s presumptions); some observers hold that Is. 17:1 could be the next reality of the conflict. Obediah 1:15 on may be soberly regarded too, along with Psalm 83 (and, of course, the present Israeli Rabbis’ concerns over Ezkl. 36-38. But, be cautioned, for Israel is not yet in the state spoken of there for these fulfillments conditions).
It is not currently popular among Christian Seminaries to project the Prophets of Old into current events. It is far more reasonable–from their perspective of conservative assessment of scriptural meanings for a more comfortable armchair distant scholarly approach, and social-appropriate library like quietude and order–to academically remark on current western social conditions or corruption of morality. In a sense editorializing Biblical analysis is within the bonds of the halls of Ivy. Taking this outside this comfort zone to a state of alarm over events brooding is not academically popular. As some past Messianic watchmen have assessed, however, events are on the edge of what has been western civilization losing its grip.
“Line of Fire” remarks have been encouraging testing our comfort zone, to hope and pray for authentic revival, to expect and anticipate change in order for our Nation to be with the forces of good working in this world. Billy Graham has rereleased his updated Storm Warning book, in 2010, “Escapism may provide temporary enjoyment, but sooner or later we must face the reality of sin and judgment, and repent as a nation,” so, watch and pray, prepare, and act.
Ray, I wish you’d explain where the lyrics were “fleshly, sensual and devilish” … because I’m not really seeing that…
It seemed to me — just MY observation, that each actor in the song was supposed to represent one of Israel’s enemies. Whether they are the Far Left liberals who mistakenly believe they are supporting the underdog by aligning with HAMAS; American government-haters who would gladly see America fall; HAMAS-trained Jihadists; some Muslim women. I may have missed a few others. And the point is that their song was supposed to be a satire. The irony is that this coalition runs under the banner of peace, but they are, in fact, “waving [their] own knives.” The coalition against Israel does con the world, amazingly, as if it’s in a big sleep. The world seems to feel sorry for the Gazans. Well, I say, let’s look into Gaza. I’m glad I got SOME glimpses today on Walid Shoebat’s home page.
But the real victims are Israel. The surrounding nations cannot abide the fact that she is there, like a stye in the eye. Tiny, but oh so irritating to them. So they are always threatening to exterminate the Jews — they are in the midst of their enemies. Well, I don’t need to tell you all of this, Ray, you know it as well as me.
I’m just wondering — where is the devilishness in the lyrics? Don’t they point, rather, to the devilishness? I mean, most Israeli’s, if religious, are certainly not Christian. We can’t expect Christ-like expressions falling from their lips right now. But they are fighting back in an effective way: through the arts and the media.
I’m just trying to understand your point of view, so please explain…thanks Ray
“Paul, I am asking for permission to reprint your letter (post #10) on a forum which is discussing Islam. Of course, it would be credited to “Paul – from another forum” or by any other designation of your choosing; that is, if it’s okay with you.”
By all means, Ruth — and you can credit it howsoever you see fit.
Much of the problem (at least in my own country) is the confusion of Christian compassion with sentimentality. The former is clear-eyed and grounded in Biblical truth, whereas the latter is humanistic and rooted entirely in feelings and fashions. I think that at its core the issue boils down ultimately to one’s view of God and one’s view of human beings.
Many people (some of whom even call themselves followers of Christ) will readily accuse the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob of everything from misogyny to mass murder, yet will excuse human beings (particularly those in certain approved “victim” groups) of all manner of wickedness. It is an attitude which is not only unjust and dangerous, but also deeply patronising, since by repudiating the moral agency of the individuals in those groups, it all but denies them full humanity. They become more like pets or props than people.
There is a very fashionable belief that if one has experienced suffering or discrimination, then one qualifies for a moral exemption certificate. This attitude is endemic amongst the academic, political and legal establishment in my country, and has our criminal justice system in its grip: the idea is that criminals are often themselves victims in some sense, so punishing them is therefore cruel; the concept of punishment comes to be viewed as barbaric and unenlightened.
The consequences of this approach are entirely predictable (they are described over and over again in Scripture) and have been utterly disastrous: particularly hard hit have been Britain’s poorer areas, where lawlessness and its attendant suffering have multiplied rapidly over the decades. Criminals themselves are hardly helped by it (at least not in the rehabilitative sense — though they are much assisted and emboldened in their careers as criminals).
Yet the same patronising view is taken of a diverse number of groups, from paupers to prostitutes, pot-smokers to Palestinians: their sin, no matter how brazen, is downplayed (or even flatly denied) on account of their suffering — and so mendacity, lenity and “harm reduction” are preferred over honesty, justice and compassionate discipline. The humanistic view that leads to this travesty springs from the rejection of an unpalatable truth.
That unpalatable truth is that humans do evil because they are evil. Yes, we may be provoked, and God will deal also with those who cause others to sin, but we still choose to sin. As Jesus pointed out, we might well know how to give good things, but it doesn’t alter the fact that we are at heart evil. And we hate to hear this (far easier to blame biology, our environment, other people or even the Devil himself), but there it is. …Worse still for our precious self-esteem is the fact that we can’t “balance out” our evil works with good works or a fresh start: our only hope is to plead guilty, agree with The Law’s verdict on us, and throw ourselves on our faces before The Judge.
Scary stuff, yet it’s the reason for the Cross: if this were not true, were we really not so bad, then Jesus’ death would not be a Divine triumph but a Divine blunder. Human nature is deeply rotten. …No matter how well human beings themselves might manage to suppress it, contain it and live with it. One alone is good, and that is God. All glory be to Him.
Ruth, I completely agree with your remarks on the Israeli song parody approach to the social-political situation.
Ruth,another good post that you’ve listsd.Seems they are not as bad off in gaza as is made out.
Thank you, brothers. We strengthen one another in truth. Thanks for your kind permission, Paul.
And yes, “All glory be to Him.” (o:
I was just thinking about the beautiful colors of the rainbow. Dr. Brown was talking about a footage that he saw of Noah’s ark, and he explained the reality that he felt when he was seeing this for the first time. I was thinking about how I felt the same way when I see a rainbow. God made a covenant with Noah and every living creature on the earth. He placed His rainbow in the sky to remind Him and us of this everlasting covenant, that He will not flood the entire world anymore.
One more thing, the Hebrew word qeshet which is a warrior’s bow is quite interesting because now I wonder why got used that symbol.
Oops, please take note – on #25 post, the word “got” means “God”.
Ruth, I will respond to your request on post #19 by asking you how you would feel if someone saw you do something wrong, deceptive, or otherwise contrary to righteousness, and made a song of it as we have seen done with this controversy?
Psalm 1 comes to my attention.
Ray, you posted on #14
Dr.Brown, The words to the music are carnal, sensual and devilish. It’s not of God. Isn’t that why you said it was “dark”?
I would like to add that you are right if you are saying that God is a being that separated darkness from light because light is good and Satan will be punished for His dark works. Concerning the video, I think that we should let God judge the intentions for that video. God judges them, and we have the privilege of praying for their salvation. In other words, I think that Paul states in 1 Cor. 5:12-13 that God judges those outside of Christ.
Ray, Certainly Jesus had very descriptive things to say negatively about the scribes and Pharisees–comparing them to whited walls, etc. In many oracles and prophecies what is said is much darker in judgment than the song. I agree with Michael Brown and Ruth.
So just a quick clarification here. I didn’t post Ken O’Keefe’s statement for his comments on Full Spectrum Dominance or any references to Gandhi. I only posted it for his eyewitness account and I didn’t have to trawl through mainstream media sites to find it. Calling him a nut as a quick and easy way to dismiss his testimony out of hand is your prerogative, but you don’t make any case for why his testimony, or dozens of others’ testimony isn’t valid. But I suppose everyone is entitled to their demagoguery.
At any rate, I would challenge everyone reading this to think about something here. Does God have a special plan for Israel? Yes He does. Its the same plan that He has for all of us, and His name is Jesus. Last time I checked, the salvation that Jesus offers to all of us, doesn’t involve laying claim to a piece of real estate. You can say that God has promised the land called Israel to his people, but land and salvation are two very different things. God’s plan of salvation for everyone, including Jews, is Jesus, and his kingdom is not based on land. So with this in mind, what do you think the reoccupation of the land of Israel by Jews is really accomplishing? And why are we as Christians so concerned about how this is going? What’s really riding on this? If Dr. Brown’s assertion that Jesus will not return until his people say Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord is really correct (which I personally think it is), what does this have to do with the occupation of Israel? Do we really think this is the only way that His people will come to say this? Maybe it is, in that once they see just how completely hopeless this mission really is will they look for another answer, that being Jesus and his kingdom which I say again, isn’t based on real estate. Funny how it seems to be coming full circle isn’t it. Is this not why He was rejected by His own people in the first place? So instead of cheering on Israel in this quest for land, isn’t it time we cheered them on towards their true salvation in Jesus instead? Unless you seriously believe that these two goals are somehow compatible. If that’s what you’re selling, sorry, I’m not buying. Unless I’m missing something here, I’m pretty sure Jesus was preaching salvation comes through Him, and the kingdom follows, not the other way around.
Rob, I don’t see myself disagreeing with your thoughts on Israel, but I would like to say that many times, we think we know everything about a certain topic until a greater revelation is revealed.
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2
Then in verse three it says that if any man loves God, that person is known by God. In other words, Yes, I think you’re right. It’s all about Jesus and loving him, not about real estate. I also love praying for Israel because God promised them an inheritance.
Genesis 13:15 “For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.” keywords: “seed” and “for ever”
Genesis 17:8 “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. keywords: “seed” and “everlasting”
Also, concerning other questions you raise about the account of Noah’s Ark (such as how did all the animals fit on board, and other logistical problems, etc.), these have mostly been answered through books such as Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study.
BTW, The Flotilla Choir spoof was excellent. I enjoyed it.
Whether it be about the Ark, or Israel, certainly reality will happen. I read the piece on the milling of lumber as one reality, and other pieceds as other realities. Clearly time will tell. I read another update, elsewhere, which stated that the area that these brethren entered–as led by Kurdish/Turkish climbers–was within 1/2 mile of what has been the historical “anomoly,” cited and recorded for hundreds of years on the Mountain. If Turkey is going to investigate, and appeals for UN funding to do so, we can wait it out. Actually, after 12 years as a builder, Middle Eastern crafting was among the best in the ancient world as well.
Likely the phrase M.B. has quoted of Yeshua on the Mt. of Olives regarding his people group and Messianic recognition comes toward the middle or end of Return and Restoration completion events; however, in the linear later Revelation sequences there are significant realities that will affect all on the earth, so we may wish to pay attention as events unfold.
The bottom line is certainly redemption. What leads up to that event is worth knowing about. Israel and the on-earth Body of the Messiah’s interrelationships, the promises and oracles of the Prophets of Old (Acts 3:21), the restraint of Evil in present day intervention, the visitaion promised the Land by the Holy Spirit, prophecy underscoring end-time events, the drama of the tests of faith, Jew and Gentile reconciliation, separation for God’s purposes and the call to personal integrity: All will be tested and proven in the Messiah.
Reconciliation was the purpose of the Visitation and Passion, and it is the reality we all should seek for any lost at this juncture, and as events make the world seem less secure, and the Kingdom promised even greater in urgency for meeting the difficulties of the world, the flesh, and the enemies’ forces. Maranantha!
The milling on that plank is pretty obvious when you enlarge the photo. It’s hard to think of another explanation for it other than that it is a “modern” plank.
Dr. Brown’s initial skepticism may have been justified. I think the best evidence for the existence of the Ark is the Biblical account.
Jabez H, When we think what the scripture says about our fallen condition, we are thinking good and right thoughts, things of truth. When Jesus told sinners of the condition of their souls it was done in righteousness. He didn’t use them for entertainment, nor did he make fun of them for any carnal enjoyment. What he did, he did for their salvation.
Anyone who was involved on the Flotilla doing wrong, might see the video in question and see the error of their ways and decide they were indeed taking an active part in deception, or being used by such, for evil purposes. Though there is some “making manifest” the deeds of darkness in it, there is also some of the darkness itself in the manner in which it was presented.
Haven’t we all been bullied at some time in our life? Maybe other children made their “fun” of us because of some fault of ours. We may have come to know our mistakes more fully by such “fun” of theirs, but with it, also there was something evil because of the manner in which we were portrayed.
That song will not sing in Zion. There is none of that substance in Jesus. Are not Satan’s messengers often disguised as messengers of light? We need not wear their clothing.
They mocked Jesus at the cross. He didn’t return any of that back to them. The cross is the way for us. It’s there that we will find our salvation and by it we may lead others to Christ.
Sometime I would like to talk about music, but especially the words to the music. Psalm 115:1 reminds me that glory is to be given to God. When we mock others, are we not saying that we think ourselves to be better than they? At such a time, who is it that we are giving glory to? And what about pride? Doesn’t that enter in? Self-righteousness? There can be so much evil all wrapped up in one wrong thing. We don’t want to be found eating from a wrong tree.
Ray, what you have said is true in many ways. Jesus did not return “like for like” and counseled us to do the same.
But of course, Jews are not Christians, and we can’t hold them to that standard, can we? We do have hope for Israel and its people, that they will see the light of Christ, their Messiah, and recognize their failure to see Him as He really is, all these centuries. Certainly it is blindness on their part and no Christian denies this.
BUT…the matter of the flotilla was that it was an act of deception and it worked! People really took it for granted that they said they came in peace and they meant it. But we know that it was a ruse to get world sympathy; the real reason was to exploit the nature of the times in order to push open the blockade.
Why should Israel open up these ‘gates’ to their avowed enemies? That would be foolish, militarily. Who would open the door to a man banging on it, with a knife in his hand, demanding that you open your door, even if he is dressed as a girl scout?
Humor is sometimes the best weapon, Ray. It diffuses the situation when everyone laughs. And then they can begin to see reason. Of course, they were dressed as peaceniks – metaphorically dressed – that is, disguised, but they were brandishing weapons when the Israeli commandos boarded them. Their intention was always to fight back; never to allow for a peaceful inspection.
Now your point about how would I like this done to me… Well, Bob, none of us would like his sins exposed to the world. For most humans, exposure is their greatest fear. So yes, I would have to say that in answer to your question — no, I would not like this. Nobody likes that.
But we are not dealing with individuals and their closely-guarded sins. We are talking about a group of people who attempted to deceive others, were successful, and have now gotten their costume pulled down, and it is funny, albeit tragic, too. We are not only poking fun of the perpetrators, but also of ourselves…for believing in such a lie in the first place.
Really, it is a kindness to attack their problem in this creative manner. It is powerful, too — like a punch that you do not see coming, but which lets all the air out.
I meant to write “Ray” and wrote “Bob” at one point. (That’s another blog!) Sorry!
REV 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
It does not yet appear what we shall be, in Him
“I didn’t post Ken O’Keefe’s statement for his comments on Full Spectrum Dominance or any references to Gandhi. I only posted it for his eyewitness account and I didn’t have to trawl through mainstream media sites to find it. Calling him a nut as a quick and easy way to dismiss his testimony out of hand is your prerogative, but you don’t make any case for why his testimony, or dozens of others’ testimony isn’t valid.”
…But the case against him is the wacky stuff about “Full Spectrum Dominance” and the appalling and wilful distortion of Gandhi’s teachings — the bloke’s plainly out to lunch. …As were the “dozens of others” — the crew of wannabe martyrs (“Go back to Auschwitz!”) and their cargo of love-blind useful idiots. Eyewitness statements are only ever as reliable as the eyewitnesses themselves: if the latter have a screw loose or are ideologically committed liars (both of which are commonplace amongst the anti-Israel faction), then any accounts they give are obviously going to be highly suspect. …And Israel’s jihadist enemies are adept at scoring propaganda victories using such “eyewitnesses”, especially in the early reports of an incident. (See Jenin, the 2006 Hezbollah War, Mohammed Al Durah, etc.)
This is because those waging war against Israel (Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) know that they are extremely unlikely to beat Israel in a straight military confrontation. They thus take Israel on in a battle they know they can win, namely the propaganda war which has been waged on Israel with ever increasing ferocity.
“Last time I checked, the salvation that Jesus offers to all of us, doesn’t involve laying claim to a piece of real estate.”
Correct.
“You can say that God has promised the land called Israel to his people, but land and salvation are two very different things.”
Correct.
“God’s plan of salvation for everyone, including Jews, is Jesus, and his kingdom is not based on land. So with this in mind, what do you think the reoccupation of the land of Israel by Jews is really accomplishing?”
It is proving that God keeps His promises: it is the fulfillment of His prophetic Word. It is His stated will to regather Israel from the ends of the Earth and to restore them to their land — not for their sake, but for His holy name’s sake.
Christian Zionists believe that this is not about Jews, Arabs or a plot of land, but about nothing less than God Himself, because that is what He has declared throughout Scripture — if you want a good synopsis of the plan, then read Ezekiel 36. The underlying issue is not politics: it’s about discerning the times and standing for God.
“So instead of cheering on Israel in this quest for land, isn’t it time we cheered them on towards their true salvation in Jesus instead?”
This is a false dichotomy: one can (and of course should) pray that Jews will come to salvation through Christ, whilst at the same time affirming their God-given right to the land of Israel. These things are not mutually exclusive.
“Unless you seriously believe that these two goals are somehow compatible. If that’s what you’re selling, sorry, I’m not buying.”
I’m sorry you’re sorry.
“Unless I’m missing something here, I’m pretty sure Jesus was preaching salvation comes through Him, and the kingdom follows, not the other way around.”
Has anyone argued otherwise?! The modern state of Israel is not the Kingdom of Heaven! As I said previously, contemporary Israel’s a godless mess, no different from our own nations. The Jews aren’t angelic beings — they’re rotten sinners at heart, like their Arab neighbours, and me, and you, and everybody else on the planet. Biblical support of Israel is not rooted in some quixotic ideal about the Jewish people or a piece of land: it’s rooted in what the Bible says is God’s purpose for the Jews and for that piece of land.
The film you linked to is typical of the sort of thing which is screened routinely in my country on the more popular television channels: the mainstream churches here are generally unsympathetic to Israel in their struggle to live in peace with their neighbours. Yet in the pro-Palestinian documentaries on Israel, the suffering of the Palestinians (which is often horrific) is never shown in its full historical, ideological and geopolitical context — and familiarity with this context is crucial if one is not to be deceived. As I say, the war being waged against Israel is (at least until Iran reaches nuclear capability) predominantly a propaganda war, wherein deception is used to devastating effect.
I write this as I think you may just be genuinely and honestly confused about what’s going on: the general media are both prejudiced against Israel and lax when it comes to doing their own job properly. …Yet they effectively do Hamas’s job for them. There are some web-based news sites out there which try to balance some of the distortions and attempt to hold the mainstream media to account (here’s one based in my own country). Sadly they have rather limited success in the latter regard. Still, I see that even The Huffington Post (anything but a friend of Israel) has realised that the Mavi Marmara incident was simply part of the propaganda war.
If you are interested in getting a deeper understanding of the roots of the conflict and how it accords with Scripture, ask Dr. Brown (or a member of his staff) to recommend some reading material to this end. He’s more of a bookworm than am I and will doubtless be able to give you better directions than I…
Lastly, I wish you well in your search for answers, Rob, and shall pray for you (I’d appreciate your prayers, too). We live an age when deception abounds (both in the world and in the church), but God’s Word is sure and as reliable now as it was in Jesus’ day. There has never been a more crucial time to know and accept and trust it. And to know and love its Author, too.
Spirit of religion. We need to be aware of it.
REMOVED? “Flotilla Choir’s video on YouTube”
“This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Warner/ Chappell Music, Inc. .”
…do you know anything about this? Seems odd…?
J., I found this article re: your question, linking here…
Dr. Brown,
I’m a little envious that you got to see video footage of the alleged Ark discovery. To your knowledge, did they discover any evidence of animals being on board this structure?
The Genesis account claims that animals (potentially thousands of them) lived on this ship for well over a year…so it seems like there would be obvious signs that animals were onboard (e.g. claw marks, birds’ nests, feathers, etc.)
Was any of that discussed during the private showing?
I’d seen the Flotilla Choir’s video on YouTube and liked it. However, I couldn’t remember the lyrics of the original We Are The World for comparison, so I went and looked them up.
And what a shock I got: somethin’ sure ain’t right there…
Here’s a link to the lyrics.
…Anyone else spot it? (I imagine it will leap out and slap most readers of this blog in the face, but it’s amazing that no-one in the entire Tinseltown team involved in producing the record recognised the mistake.) …Funny and sad at the same time.
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon on this site, but you and your listeners/readers need to hear the truth about the flotilla attack from an eyewitness. It completely contradicts the statements made by the Israeli govt and the IDF.
This is the statement made by Ken O’Keefe who was on the ship that IDF commandos attacked.
Reflections by a Former US Marine on the Mavi Marmara
On Cowardice and Violence
By KEN O’KEEFE
Istanbul
In 2002 I initiated the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq because I knew that the invasion of Iraq had been planned well in advance, that it was part of a ‘Global Spectrum Dominance’ agenda as laid out by the Project For A New American Century. I knew that protests had no chance of stopping the invasion, and that largely these protests were just a way of making us feel better about the coming mass murder; by being able to say “I protested against it.” With that understanding I argued that the only viable way to stop the invasion was to conduct a mass migration to Iraq. A migration in which people from around the world, especially western citizens, would position themselves at sites in Iraq that are supposed to be protected by international law, but which are routinely bombed when it is only Iraqi, Palestinian, generally non-white, western lives who will be killed. I felt 10,000 such people could stop the invasion, or at the very least, expose the invasion for what it was from the start, an act of international aggression, a war crime and a crime against humanity.
I have for many years understood that we, people of conscience, are the true holders of power in this world. Frustratingly however we have largely relinquished that power and failed to reach our full potential. Our potential to create a better world, a just world. Nonetheless I have conspired with others of like mind to reveal and exercise our true power.
When our two double decker busses travelled from London to Baghdad through Turkey, it was ever clear that the people of Turkey also could sense the power of this act, and they were the biggest participants in it. In the end we did not get the numbers required to stop the war, with at least one million Iraqi’s dead as a result, but I remain convinced that it was within our power to prevent the invasion. A massive opportunity lost as far as I am concerned.
In 2007 I joined the Free Gaza Movement with its plan to challenge the blockade of Gaza by travelling to Gaza by sea. From the moment I heard of the plan I knew it could succeed and ultimately I served as a captain on the first attempt. The Israeli government said throughout our preparation that we were no better than pirates and they would treat us as such. They made clear we would not reach Gaza. And still I knew we could succeed. And we did. Two boats with 46 passengers from various countries managed to sail into Gaza on August 23, 2007; this was the first time this had been done in 41 years.
The truth is the blockade of Gaza is far more than three years old, and yet we, a small group of conscientious people defied the Israeli machine and celebrated with tens of thousands of Gazans when we arrived that day. We proved that it could be done. We proved that an intelligent plan, with skilled manipulation of the media, could render the full might of the Israeli Navy useless. And I knew then that this was only the tip of the iceberg.
So participating in the Freedom Flotilla is like a family reunion to me. It is my long lost family whose conscience is their guide, who have shed the fear, who act with humanity. But I was especially proud to join IHH and the Turkish elements of the flotilla. I deeply admire the strength and character of the Turkish people, despite your history having stains of injustice, like every nation, you are today from citizen to Prime Minister among the leaders in the cause of humanity and justice.
I remember being asked during the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq if I was a pacifist, I responded with a quote from Gandhi by saying I am not a passive anything. To the contrary I believe in action, and I also believe in self-defence, 100 per cent, without reservation. I would be incapable of standing by while a tyrant murders my family, and the attack on the Mavi Marmara was like an attack on my Palestinian family. I am proud to have stood shoulder to shoulder with those who refused to let a rogue Israeli military exert their will without a fight.
And yes, we fought.
When I was asked, in the event of an Israeli attack on the Mavi Marmara, would I use the camera, or would I defend the ship? I enthusiastically committed to defence of the ship. Although I am also a huge supporter of non-violence, in fact I believe non-violence must always be the first option. Nonetheless I joined the defence of the Mavi Mamara understanding that violence could be used against us and that we may very well be compelled to use violence in self defence.
I said this straight to Israeli agents, probably of Mossad or Shin Bet, and I say it again now, on the morning of the attack I was directly involved in the disarming of two Israeli Commandos. This was a forcible, non-negotiable, separation of weapons from commandos who had already murdered two brothers that I had seen that day. One brother with a bullet entering dead center in his forehead, in what appeared to be an execution.
I knew the commandos were murdering when I removed a 9mm pistol from one of them. I had that gun in my hands and as an ex-US Marine with training in the use of guns it was completely within my power to use that gun on the commando who may have been the murderer of one of my brothers. But that is not what I, nor any other defender of the ship did. I took that weapon away, removed the bullets, proper lead bullets, separated them from the weapon and hid the gun. I did this in the hopes that we would repel the attack and submit this weapon as evidence in a criminal trial against Israeli authorities for mass murder. I also helped to physically separate one commando from his assault rifle, which another brother apparently threw into the sea.
I and hundreds of others know the truth that makes a mockery of the brave and moral Israeli military. We had in our full possession, three completely disarmed and helpless commandos. These boys were at our mercy, they were out of reach of their fellow murderers, inside the ship and surrounded by 100 or more men. I looked into the eyes of all three of these boys and I can tell you they had the fear of God in them. They looked at us as if we were them, and I have no doubt they did not believe there was any way they would survive that day. They looked like frightened children in the face of an abusive father.
But they did not face an enemy as ruthless as they. Instead the woman provided basic first aid, and ultimately they were released, battered and bruised for sure, but alive. Able to live another day. Able to feel the sun over head and the embrace of loved ones. Unlike those they murdered. Despite mourning the loss of our brothers, feeling rage towards these boys, we let them go.
The Israeli prostitutes of propaganda can spew all of their disgusting bile all they wish, the commandos are the murderers, we are the defenders, and yet we fought. We fought not just for our lives, not just for our cargo, not just for the people of Palestine, we fought in the name of justice and humanity. We were right to do so, in every way.
While in Israeli custody I, along with everyone else was subjected to endless abuse and flagrant acts of disrespect. Women and elderly were physically and mentally assaulted. Access to food and water and toilets was denied. Dogs were used against us, we ourselves were treated like dogs. We were exposed to direct sun in stress positions while hand cuffed to the point of losing circulation of blood in our hands. We were lied to incessantly, in fact I am awed at the routineness and comfort in their ability to lie, it is remarkable really. We were abused in just about every way imaginable and I myself was beaten and choked to the point of blacking out… and I was beaten again while in my cell. In all this what I saw more than anything else were cowards… and yet I also see my brothers. Because no matter how vile and wrong the Israeli agents and government are, they are still my brothers and sisters and for now I only have pity for them. Because they are relinquishing the most precious thing a human being has, their humanity.
In conclusion; I would like to challenge every endorser of Gandhi, every person who thinks they understand him, who acknowledges him as one of the great souls of our time (which is just about every western leader), I challenge you in the form of a question.
Please explain how we, the defenders of the Mavi Mamara, are not the modern example of Gandhi’s essence? But first read the words of Gandhi himself. I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence…. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour. – Gandhi And lastly I have one more challenge. I challenge any critic of merit, publicly, to debate me on a large stage over our actions that day. I would especially love to debate with any Israeli leader who accuses us of wrongdoing, it would be my tremendous pleasure to face off with you. All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns, so I am ripe to see you in a new context. I want to debate with you on the largest stage possible. Take that as an open challenge and let us see just how brave Israeli leaders are.
Ken O’Keefe is a former US Marine and Gulf War veteran.
Ken’s story is further corroborated by a news report of a 19 year old US citizen shot 4 times in the head and once in the chest.
Here’s the link:
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/Gareth%20Porteramerican-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848
The Christian community needs to wake up already and stop blindly supporting the govt of Israel as though they are infallible. If we really want to stand with Israel, then we must be consistent with Christ’s message.
I challenge everyone who reads this to go to this website and check out everything on it.
http://withgodonourside.com/
In regard to We Are the World lyric, the only thing I saw that jumped off the page was when he mentions God changing the stone into bread! That was when the Devil said to Jesus, if you are the Son of God, turn these rocks into bread! We all know what Jesus replied to that suggestion, right?
I read the ABC article. No time this am to go to other website. Will look at it after work. So, how are we supposed to believe ANYTHING the media reports to us? I don’t know what to think anymore, not just about this issue, but about anything I see and hear on the news. So, who is really lying?
Quotes are from the withgodonourside website:
“Christian Zionists believe that God has a continuing “special” relationship with, and covenantal purposes for the Jewish people, apart from the church, and that the Jewish people have a divine right to posses the land of Israel / Palestine.
This is based on a literal and futurist interpretation of the Bible and the conviction that Old Testament prophecies concerning the Jewish people are being fulfilled today in and through the contemporary secular State of Israel.”
I read the bible in a literal way and believe what the prophets have said. This does not necessarily mean that I support Israel without question.
“UN Resolutions & The Geneva Convention
There have been several UN Resolutions dealing with the Israeli / Palestinian issue. The one we would like to highlight is UN Resolution 242, which was first adapted in 1967 after the 1967 war
• Full Israeli Withdraw from lands occupied in recent conlficts.
• Full recognition from Arab states of the right for Israel to exist.
• Resolution and/or compensation for Palestinians refugees affected by the displacement from war.
The resolution cites the 4th Geneva Convention, article 49. The responsibilities of an occupying power (Israel) have toward peoples living under occupation. The Geneva Convention prohibits the transfer of the occupying powers population into areas that it has occupied.”
First, I don’t understand why any nation which is attacked and gains territory in it’s defense should be required to give it back. Americans have stolen a lot of territory from Native Americans and have never been required by the world to give it back. Maybe I just don’t understand war?
As for Arabs giving Israel full recognition of the right for it to exist, this will never happen as long as Muslim extremists want to blow Israel off the face of the map. Every time Israel has given land for peace they have been attacked in one way or another. Is this fair? I think if I were Israeli I would be just a little bit paranoid at this point.
There is a lot I don’t understand about wars and politics, but it seems to me that from day one there has been a united desire in the Arab world for Israel to be destroyed. Muslims once controlled Palestine and Jews having any kind of a nation in that land at all is anethema to them.
“The UN Partition plan was formulated which was to give 55% of mandate Palestine to the Jews, and 45% to the Arabs. The Jews immediately accepted the plan as “the indispensable minimum”, while Arabs rejected it as being unfair according to the population balance between Jews and Arabs at the time.”
This is not at all what I have read in the history of the conflict. I have read that the Jews were offered a much, much smaller tract of land than the Palestinian Arabs. So, I say again, which history is a person to believe?
Just a lot of questions……
I wonder if Israel would have done well to use deadly force against the Flotilla since it had been warned fairly, refused to turn away, and was in violation of the laws that were in place to govern those waters.
Suppose they had torpedoed the ship and sank it after giving it fair warning. What would be wrong with that?
It would have been a great tragedy, but maybe some people in the future would be more discerning as to what boat they get on and where it is inteded to go, and for what purpose.
Maybe it would have yielded some good things in the future though at a costly price.
About the “Captain Stabbing” video where the characters acted out their version of what is going on, I have this to say: I watched it, laughed, thought it was entertaining, and fwd’d it to others.
The following day, I realized that the song they sang was “stuck in my head”, taking occupation as if by a strength of it’s own as it appealed to my carnal weakness. I felt my heart smitten because I had sent it on to others.
Did anyone else experience similar things about what they did with this video?
It seems to me that if a people occupy a land through war and do indeed hold on to it, the world should recognize that it has gained it’s possession and that it is now, their land.
There are laws concerning real estate that speak of “adverse possession”. Adverse posession speaks of someone occupying land by force. If they can hold on to it, and the rightful owner does not use whatever means he has to force them off the property, in time it will be understood by law that it was gained by adverse posession and thereby the ownership of the property has been transferred. (or something to this effect. These are my words as I try to explain the jist of what adverse posession is about, according to my understanding. Please understand that I am not a lawyer or much into real estate law.)
It does seem to me that Israel’s land is their land and all the world would do well to understand that also.
Being a friend of Israel doesn’t mean that one is then a friend of Jesus, but for some it would be a good place to start.
Dr. Brown,
Please forgive me for mentioning on this blog about how it wasn’t good for me to have passed on the video (the “Captain Stabbing” thing) on the recent Flotilla incident. I should have let you know this privately. I haven’t yet learned to live without sinning.
“I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon on this site…”
Au contraire: it was the best laugh I’ve had all day. The guy’s a nut.
Don’t you think that if there was a real “smoking gun” here, then the Israel-bashing BBC, with its tax-funded bottomless-pit resources, would have rooted it out and plastered it all over the one/six/ten o’clock news for a fortnight? It sure ain’t as though they haven’t been trying…
…So rather than trawl the mainstream websites for yet more anti-Zionist agitprop, just re-read the first sentence: “In 2002 I initiated the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq because I knew that the invasion of Iraq had been planned well in advance, that it was part of a ‘Global Spectrum Dominance’ agenda as laid out by the Project For A New American Century.”
…Just like all the other nuts who think that those evil Zionist/Conservative/Christian/American Imperialists are at root responsible for everything that’s wrong, from general personal dissatisfaction with life to the attacks on the World Trade Centre. And just listen to the guy’s prose style: it’s what we in Britain call mental. “And yes, we fought.” He sounds like a thwarted Hemingway wannabe who’s just got his big break. It’s not a dispassionate account of an international incident. It’s the rambling of a grade A nut.
And though I’m far from being one of them, I think that Gandhi’s real followers (or even those who know a bit about him) might take issue with this little pearl: “Please explain how we, the defenders of the Mavi Mamara,(sic) are not the modern example of Gandhi’s essence?” …Oh, I can just see the Mahatma now at the Dharasana satyagraha, his face flushed with fury, raising his steel-tipped lathi over a pair of British sepoys as they cower on the floor, “like frightened children in the face of an abusive father”… I wonder whether the entire account isn’t another piece of satire, to test just how gullible Israel’s detractors are…
Why are Christians so incapable of discernment these days? Has the glut of bland “worship” music rotted their brains? Come on, folks — WAKE UP! It’s not a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other: Israel is, and has been for years, locked in an asymmetric existential war, which it is losing badly — thanks partly to its rulers’ ineptness, but also to the hand-wringing witless wetness of the West whenever the latest propaganda coup hits the newspapers. The Church should be different, and shouldn’t get sucked in like the rest of the world. Yes, God is sovereign in this, and will eventually deliver His people, but He expects us to discern truth from lies.
I make no apologies if anyone’s offended by this: so many Christians are getting ever softer in the head, thinking that championing what they see as the underdog pleases God. Yet first and foremost we are to discern — to judge shrewdly. How else will we know who is the real underdog?
Jesus commands us to be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. When the world is sharpening the axe against Israel, is it really following Christ’s teaching to be repeating the defamatory paranoia of an Israel-hater? That’s the sort of “global Zionist conspiracy” trash that has the real head-hackers taking to the streets. It is not being “harmless as doves”: It does harm. …And it’s anything but wise.
Israel might be an awful place — just like my own country (the UK), and America, and all the other nations who have turned their backs on God — but it’s hardly the bloodthirsty abomination that its haters seek to make it out to be. There is a plan — and not a secret, conspiratorial plan known only to a few, but an openly avowed one declared before the world — to wipe Israel from the map. …Indeed, in the schools of Gaza the new maps are already available, telling us what the geography of the region should look like if the plan works out.
Were he here, Jesus would condemn the so-called leadership of the church for failing to discern the times. …Just as He did with the leaders of the Jews in His day: as with Israel and Judah, so with the Church. We’re doing exactly what they did. Don’t the catastrophic mistakes of our forefathers in the faith teach us anything?
Ray, I had the tune and words of the video in my head after watching it, and I’m glad I did. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.
Paul, I don’t know if you are the same Paul in both posts #2 and #10 — but I applaud both.
While no one wants to see innocent victims in the crossfire harmed (and rightly so), I know why people sympathize with the rhetoric of the Free Gaza people. It’s because they can’t conceive of the almost comic-book scenario of an evil totalitarian state driven mad over a tiny sliver of land belonging to a people who have defied their control for centuries. It sounds so improbable — like a bad sci-fi movie. So it’s hard to get some people to even entertain the notion, let alone believe it. Even when they see a video of a HAMAS spokesman passionately and unequivocably declaring that Israel must be destroyed, it somehow doesn’t soak in.
Also, the reference to the stone turning into bread — yes — not something the Lord did, though Satan suggested it so he could “prove” he was the Son of God … and being that he was fasting, the idea might have been tempting for a moment or two. If Michael wrote the lyrics, well, he WAS a “Jehovah’s Witness” for a number of years, and my experience is that they are Scripture-twisters of the first order.
Paul, I am asking for permission to reprint your letter (post #10) on a forum which is discussing Islam. Of course, it would be credited to “Paul – from another forum” or by any other designation of your choosing; that is, if it’s okay with you.
I’ll await your reply. Thanks.
Also, here is a link which really belongs on the “Mosque” Discussion, but is also pertinent here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg
It’s called “Of Mosques and Men”
Dr.Brown,
The words to the music are carnal, sensual and devilish. It’s not of God. Isn’t that why you said it was “dark”?
Ray, I was just wondering – are you talking about the Flotilla song lyrics in your Q. above?
I have lived long enough to know that when something doesn’t make sense it’s most likely because I don’t have all the information. The bottom line is that we will never have all the information when it comes to man’s eye-view of Israel.
My daughter and I had a go-around when the first reports of the flotilla issue surfaced. After futilely trying to get her to reserve judgment until information from the Israeli side was made available, I realized I needed to take some time to think through any further response. What came to me was, ultimately, I cannot base my response to my daughter, or anyone else, on anything other than God’s Word.
I was privileged to have spent a year in my recent past living in Jerusalem. I remember sitting at the promenade looking over the Old City thinking about how many of the “holy” places – Bethlehem, Nazareth, the Temple Mount, the Mount of Olives, etc. – are, for all intents and purposes, in Arab hands. I asked God what that was about. A short while later I went for a walk to the Old City and, while standing at the wall listening to the Muslim prayers wafting over the heads of Jews praying, I asked God again – what is this about . . . why? . . . this isn’t the way it is supposed to be. The response I sensed in my spirit was that it was about consequences. That was a hard thought for me and, as I started to ponder it, another thought broke in – but I am not finished . . . I am not done.
I value the insights and information you bring to us on this program each day, Dr. Brown. I am sure I am like many of your listeners who long to see Israel vindicated in the eyes of the world. I also value hearing the differing voices because they remind me that we need to pray for the peace of Jerusalem . . . for every Jew, Muslim, Christian, Ethiopian, Chinese, Russian, Israeli, Arab, Canadian, American, African, etc., who lives there . . because God is not finished.
The name of the Lord WILL be declared in Zion and His praise in Jerusalem when the peoples and the kingdoms assemble to worship the Lord. (Ps 102:21, 22).
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. (Rev. 21:3)
Maranatha!
Ruth, yes to your question in #15.
As Ruth last pointed out on Je. 9th, under the original posting on the floatilla here of Je. 1, Rabbis in Israel have met and consider the alignment of Turkey, Iran, and Syria an ominous sign regarding prophetic events foretold about the chosen Land and the chosen People vs. the Nations in rebellion in the Tenach.
Ruth posted two significant sites on this matter.
http://www.imninalu.net/G&M.htm
and
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2010/June07/0721.html
The last one is the take on the situation from some Rabbis in Israel. The former is a very well researched excellent linguistic/etmological geographic origins piece on the origins of Gog and Magog we would be foolish to ignore. Please be urged now to Watch and Pray, and reserve three months of food and water reserves now, by summer’s end.
Scriptures in the Psalms, Isaiah, Ezkl., Obidiah, Joel, Daniel, the Revelation, Zech., etc. seem to point to a time of trouble coming for Israel. The outcome seems to be a shift to Israel, after difficulty, repositioning its importance in Prophetic fulfillments leading eventually to the Return of Yeshua and the establishment of the Kingdom promised David’s descendant from its region. The fact that Turkey has shifted its government most recently to align against Israel, with its neighbors bordering No. Israel, that the US will soon vacate Iraq–perhaps to Iran–that the cruise missile development by the Iran navy was completed by late summer 2006, then awaiting nuclear equippage, and now tests are planned against the Gaza blockade as announced by Turkey and Iran should be observed for intercession among the body of the Messiah.
Israel is not dwelling in safety, but has two local armies set to wage immediate war on two of its borders, with stockpiled thousands of rockets, who can call for other nations involvement as world opinion galvanizes against Israel (not by thought through reasoning, but by Satanic fed pure negative emotion and false religion’s presumptions); some observers hold that Is. 17:1 could be the next reality of the conflict. Obediah 1:15 on may be soberly regarded too, along with Psalm 83 (and, of course, the present Israeli Rabbis’ concerns over Ezkl. 36-38. But, be cautioned, for Israel is not yet in the state spoken of there for these fulfillments conditions).
It is not currently popular among Christian Seminaries to project the Prophets of Old into current events. It is far more reasonable–from their perspective of conservative assessment of scriptural meanings for a more comfortable armchair distant scholarly approach, and social-appropriate library like quietude and order–to academically remark on current western social conditions or corruption of morality. In a sense editorializing Biblical analysis is within the bonds of the halls of Ivy. Taking this outside this comfort zone to a state of alarm over events brooding is not academically popular. As some past Messianic watchmen have assessed, however, events are on the edge of what has been western civilization losing its grip.
“Line of Fire” remarks have been encouraging testing our comfort zone, to hope and pray for authentic revival, to expect and anticipate change in order for our Nation to be with the forces of good working in this world. Billy Graham has rereleased his updated Storm Warning book, in 2010, “Escapism may provide temporary enjoyment, but sooner or later we must face the reality of sin and judgment, and repent as a nation,” so, watch and pray, prepare, and act.
Ray, I wish you’d explain where the lyrics were “fleshly, sensual and devilish” … because I’m not really seeing that…
It seemed to me — just MY observation, that each actor in the song was supposed to represent one of Israel’s enemies. Whether they are the Far Left liberals who mistakenly believe they are supporting the underdog by aligning with HAMAS; American government-haters who would gladly see America fall; HAMAS-trained Jihadists; some Muslim women. I may have missed a few others.
And the point is that their song was supposed to be a satire. The irony is that this coalition runs under the banner of peace, but they are, in fact, “waving [their] own knives.” The coalition against Israel does con the world, amazingly, as if it’s in a big sleep. The world seems to feel sorry for the Gazans. Well, I say, let’s look into Gaza. I’m glad I got SOME glimpses today on Walid Shoebat’s home page.
http://shoebat.com/videos/oGaza.php
But the real victims are Israel. The surrounding nations cannot abide the fact that she is there, like a stye in the eye. Tiny, but oh so irritating to them. So they are always threatening to exterminate the Jews — they are in the midst of their enemies. Well, I don’t need to tell you all of this, Ray, you know it as well as me.
I’m just wondering — where is the devilishness in the lyrics? Don’t they point, rather, to the devilishness? I mean, most Israeli’s, if religious, are certainly not Christian. We can’t expect Christ-like expressions falling from their lips right now. But they are fighting back in an effective way: through the arts and the media.
I’m just trying to understand your point of view, so please explain…thanks Ray
“Paul, I am asking for permission to reprint your letter (post #10) on a forum which is discussing Islam. Of course, it would be credited to “Paul – from another forum” or by any other designation of your choosing; that is, if it’s okay with you.”
By all means, Ruth — and you can credit it howsoever you see fit.
Much of the problem (at least in my own country) is the confusion of Christian compassion with sentimentality. The former is clear-eyed and grounded in Biblical truth, whereas the latter is humanistic and rooted entirely in feelings and fashions. I think that at its core the issue boils down ultimately to one’s view of God and one’s view of human beings.
Many people (some of whom even call themselves followers of Christ) will readily accuse the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob of everything from misogyny to mass murder, yet will excuse human beings (particularly those in certain approved “victim” groups) of all manner of wickedness. It is an attitude which is not only unjust and dangerous, but also deeply patronising, since by repudiating the moral agency of the individuals in those groups, it all but denies them full humanity. They become more like pets or props than people.
There is a very fashionable belief that if one has experienced suffering or discrimination, then one qualifies for a moral exemption certificate. This attitude is endemic amongst the academic, political and legal establishment in my country, and has our criminal justice system in its grip: the idea is that criminals are often themselves victims in some sense, so punishing them is therefore cruel; the concept of punishment comes to be viewed as barbaric and unenlightened.
The consequences of this approach are entirely predictable (they are described over and over again in Scripture) and have been utterly disastrous: particularly hard hit have been Britain’s poorer areas, where lawlessness and its attendant suffering have multiplied rapidly over the decades. Criminals themselves are hardly helped by it (at least not in the rehabilitative sense — though they are much assisted and emboldened in their careers as criminals).
Yet the same patronising view is taken of a diverse number of groups, from paupers to prostitutes, pot-smokers to Palestinians: their sin, no matter how brazen, is downplayed (or even flatly denied) on account of their suffering — and so mendacity, lenity and “harm reduction” are preferred over honesty, justice and compassionate discipline. The humanistic view that leads to this travesty springs from the rejection of an unpalatable truth.
That unpalatable truth is that humans do evil because they are evil. Yes, we may be provoked, and God will deal also with those who cause others to sin, but we still choose to sin. As Jesus pointed out, we might well know how to give good things, but it doesn’t alter the fact that we are at heart evil. And we hate to hear this (far easier to blame biology, our environment, other people or even the Devil himself), but there it is. …Worse still for our precious self-esteem is the fact that we can’t “balance out” our evil works with good works or a fresh start: our only hope is to plead guilty, agree with The Law’s verdict on us, and throw ourselves on our faces before The Judge.
Scary stuff, yet it’s the reason for the Cross: if this were not true, were we really not so bad, then Jesus’ death would not be a Divine triumph but a Divine blunder. Human nature is deeply rotten. …No matter how well human beings themselves might manage to suppress it, contain it and live with it. One alone is good, and that is God. All glory be to Him.
Ruth, I completely agree with your remarks on the Israeli song parody approach to the social-political situation.
Ruth,another good post that you’ve listsd.Seems they are not as bad off in gaza as is made out.
Thank you, brothers. We strengthen one another in truth. Thanks for your kind permission, Paul.
And yes, “All glory be to Him.” (o:
I was just thinking about the beautiful colors of the rainbow. Dr. Brown was talking about a footage that he saw of Noah’s ark, and he explained the reality that he felt when he was seeing this for the first time. I was thinking about how I felt the same way when I see a rainbow. God made a covenant with Noah and every living creature on the earth. He placed His rainbow in the sky to remind Him and us of this everlasting covenant, that He will not flood the entire world anymore.
One more thing, the Hebrew word qeshet which is a warrior’s bow is quite interesting because now I wonder why got used that symbol.
Oops, please take note – on #25 post, the word “got” means “God”.
Ruth, I will respond to your request on post #19 by asking you how you would feel if someone saw you do something wrong, deceptive, or otherwise contrary to righteousness, and made a song of it
as we have seen done with this controversy?
Psalm 1 comes to my attention.
Ray, you posted on #14
Dr.Brown,
The words to the music are carnal, sensual and devilish. It’s not of God. Isn’t that why you said it was “dark”?
I would like to add that you are right if you are saying that God is a being that separated darkness from light because light is good and Satan will be punished for His dark works. Concerning the video, I think that we should let God judge the intentions for that video. God judges them, and we have the privilege of praying for their salvation. In other words, I think that Paul states in 1 Cor. 5:12-13 that God judges those outside of Christ.
Ray, Certainly Jesus had very descriptive things to say negatively about the scribes and Pharisees–comparing them to whited walls, etc. In many oracles and prophecies what is said is much darker in judgment than the song. I agree with Michael Brown and Ruth.
So just a quick clarification here. I didn’t post Ken O’Keefe’s statement for his comments on Full Spectrum Dominance or any references to Gandhi. I only posted it for his eyewitness account and I didn’t have to trawl through mainstream media sites to find it. Calling him a nut as a quick and easy way to dismiss his testimony out of hand is your prerogative, but you don’t make any case for why his testimony, or dozens of others’ testimony isn’t valid. But I suppose everyone is entitled to their demagoguery.
At any rate, I would challenge everyone reading this to think about something here. Does God have a special plan for Israel? Yes He does. Its the same plan that He has for all of us, and His name is Jesus. Last time I checked, the salvation that Jesus offers to all of us, doesn’t involve laying claim to a piece of real estate. You can say that God has promised the land called Israel to his people, but land and salvation are two very different things. God’s plan of salvation for everyone, including Jews, is Jesus, and his kingdom is not based on land. So with this in mind, what do you think the reoccupation of the land of Israel by Jews is really accomplishing? And why are we as Christians so concerned about how this is going? What’s really riding on this? If Dr. Brown’s assertion that Jesus will not return until his people say Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord is really correct (which I personally think it is), what does this have to do with the occupation of Israel? Do we really think this is the only way that His people will come to say this? Maybe it is, in that once they see just how completely hopeless this mission really is will they look for another answer, that being Jesus and his kingdom which I say again, isn’t based on real estate. Funny how it seems to be coming full circle isn’t it. Is this not why He was rejected by His own people in the first place? So instead of cheering on Israel in this quest for land, isn’t it time we cheered them on towards their true salvation in Jesus instead? Unless you seriously believe that these two goals are somehow compatible. If that’s what you’re selling, sorry, I’m not buying. Unless I’m missing something here, I’m pretty sure Jesus was preaching salvation comes through Him, and the kingdom follows, not the other way around.
Rob, I don’t see myself disagreeing with your thoughts on Israel, but I would like to say that many times, we think we know everything about a certain topic until a greater revelation is revealed.
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2
Then in verse three it says that if any man loves God, that person is known by God. In other words, Yes, I think you’re right. It’s all about Jesus and loving him, not about real estate. I also love praying for Israel because God promised them an inheritance.
Genesis 13:15 “For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.”
keywords: “seed” and “for ever”
Genesis 17:8 “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
keywords: “seed” and “everlasting”
Hi Dr. Brown,
CMI has an update on the “Ark find”. It seems it may be a hoax afterall:
http://creation.com/noahs-ark-or-what
Also, concerning other questions you raise about the account of Noah’s Ark (such as how did all the animals fit on board, and other logistical problems, etc.), these have mostly been answered through books such as Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study.
BTW, The Flotilla Choir spoof was excellent. I enjoyed it.
Whether it be about the Ark, or Israel, certainly reality will happen. I read the piece on the milling of lumber as one reality, and other pieceds as other realities. Clearly time will tell. I read another update, elsewhere, which stated that the area that these brethren entered–as led by Kurdish/Turkish climbers–was within 1/2 mile of what has been the historical “anomoly,” cited and recorded for hundreds of years on the Mountain. If Turkey is going to investigate, and appeals for UN funding to do so, we can wait it out. Actually, after 12 years as a builder, Middle Eastern crafting was among the best in the ancient world as well.
Likely the phrase M.B. has quoted of Yeshua on the Mt. of Olives regarding his people group and Messianic recognition comes toward the middle or end of Return and Restoration completion events; however, in the linear later Revelation sequences there are significant realities that will affect all on the earth, so we may wish to pay attention as events unfold.
The bottom line is certainly redemption. What leads up to that event is worth knowing about. Israel and the on-earth Body of the Messiah’s interrelationships, the promises and oracles of the Prophets of Old (Acts 3:21), the restraint of Evil in present day intervention, the visitaion promised the Land by the Holy Spirit, prophecy underscoring end-time events, the drama of the tests of faith, Jew and Gentile reconciliation, separation for God’s purposes and the call to personal integrity: All will be tested and proven in the Messiah.
Reconciliation was the purpose of the Visitation and Passion, and it is the reality we all should seek for any lost at this juncture, and as events make the world seem less secure, and the Kingdom promised even greater in urgency for meeting the difficulties of the world, the flesh, and the enemies’ forces. Maranantha!
The milling on that plank is pretty obvious when you enlarge the photo. It’s hard to think of another explanation for it other than that it is a “modern” plank.
Dr. Brown’s initial skepticism may have been justified. I think the best evidence for the existence of the Ark is the Biblical account.
Jabez H,
When we think what the scripture says about our fallen condition, we are thinking good and right thoughts, things of truth. When Jesus told sinners of the condition of their souls it was done in righteousness. He didn’t use them for entertainment, nor did he make fun of them for any carnal enjoyment. What he did, he did for their salvation.
Anyone who was involved on the Flotilla doing wrong, might see the video in question and see the error of their ways and decide they were indeed taking an active part in deception, or being used by such, for evil purposes. Though there is some “making manifest” the deeds of darkness in it, there is also some of the darkness itself in the manner in which it was presented.
Haven’t we all been bullied at some time in our life? Maybe other children made their “fun” of us because of some fault of ours. We may have come to know our mistakes more fully by such “fun” of theirs, but with it, also there was something evil because of the manner in which we were portrayed.
That song will not sing in Zion. There is none of that substance in Jesus. Are not Satan’s messengers often disguised as messengers of light? We need not wear their clothing.
They mocked Jesus at the cross. He didn’t return any of that back to them. The cross is the way for us. It’s there that we will find our salvation and by it we may lead others to Christ.
Sometime I would like to talk about music, but especially the words to the music. Psalm 115:1 reminds me that glory is to be given to God. When we mock others, are we not saying that we think ourselves to be better than they? At such a time, who is it that we are giving glory to? And what about pride? Doesn’t that enter in? Self-righteousness? There can be so much evil all wrapped up in one wrong thing. We don’t want to be found eating from a wrong tree.
Ray, what you have said is true in many ways. Jesus did not return “like for like” and counseled us to do the same.
But of course, Jews are not Christians, and we can’t hold them to that standard, can we? We do have hope for Israel and its people, that they will see the light of Christ, their Messiah, and recognize their failure to see Him as He really is, all these centuries. Certainly it is blindness on their part and no Christian denies this.
BUT…the matter of the flotilla was that it was an act of deception and it worked! People really took it for granted that they said they came in peace and they meant it. But we know that it was a ruse to get world sympathy; the real reason was to exploit the nature of the times in order to push open the blockade.
Why should Israel open up these ‘gates’ to their avowed enemies? That would be foolish, militarily. Who would open the door to a man banging on it, with a knife in his hand, demanding that you open your door, even if he is dressed as a girl scout?
Humor is sometimes the best weapon, Ray. It diffuses the situation when everyone laughs. And then they can begin to see reason. Of course, they were dressed as peaceniks – metaphorically dressed – that is, disguised, but they were brandishing weapons when the Israeli commandos boarded them. Their intention was always to fight back; never to allow for a peaceful inspection.
Now your point about how would I like this done to me… Well, Bob, none of us would like his sins exposed to the world. For most humans, exposure is their greatest fear. So yes, I would have to say that in answer to your question — no, I would not like this. Nobody likes that.
But we are not dealing with individuals and their closely-guarded sins. We are talking about a group of people who attempted to deceive others, were successful, and have now gotten their costume pulled down, and it is funny, albeit tragic, too. We are not only poking fun of the perpetrators, but also of ourselves…for believing in such a lie in the first place.
Really, it is a kindness to attack their problem in this creative manner. It is powerful, too — like a punch that you do not see coming, but which lets all the air out.
I meant to write “Ray” and wrote “Bob” at one point. (That’s another blog!) Sorry!
REV 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
It does not yet appear what we shall be, in Him
“I didn’t post Ken O’Keefe’s statement for his comments on Full Spectrum Dominance or any references to Gandhi. I only posted it for his eyewitness account and I didn’t have to trawl through mainstream media sites to find it. Calling him a nut as a quick and easy way to dismiss his testimony out of hand is your prerogative, but you don’t make any case for why his testimony, or dozens of others’ testimony isn’t valid.”
…But the case against him is the wacky stuff about “Full Spectrum Dominance” and the appalling and wilful distortion of Gandhi’s teachings — the bloke’s plainly out to lunch. …As were the “dozens of others” — the crew of wannabe martyrs (“Go back to Auschwitz!”) and their cargo of love-blind useful idiots. Eyewitness statements are only ever as reliable as the eyewitnesses themselves: if the latter have a screw loose or are ideologically committed liars (both of which are commonplace amongst the anti-Israel faction), then any accounts they give are obviously going to be highly suspect. …And Israel’s jihadist enemies are adept at scoring propaganda victories using such “eyewitnesses”, especially in the early reports of an incident. (See Jenin, the 2006 Hezbollah War, Mohammed Al Durah, etc.)
This is because those waging war against Israel (Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) know that they are extremely unlikely to beat Israel in a straight military confrontation. They thus take Israel on in a battle they know they can win, namely the propaganda war which has been waged on Israel with ever increasing ferocity.
“Last time I checked, the salvation that Jesus offers to all of us, doesn’t involve laying claim to a piece of real estate.”
Correct.
“You can say that God has promised the land called Israel to his people, but land and salvation are two very different things.”
Correct.
“God’s plan of salvation for everyone, including Jews, is Jesus, and his kingdom is not based on land. So with this in mind, what do you think the reoccupation of the land of Israel by Jews is really accomplishing?”
It is proving that God keeps His promises: it is the fulfillment of His prophetic Word. It is His stated will to regather Israel from the ends of the Earth and to restore them to their land — not for their sake, but for His holy name’s sake.
Christian Zionists believe that this is not about Jews, Arabs or a plot of land, but about nothing less than God Himself, because that is what He has declared throughout Scripture — if you want a good synopsis of the plan, then read Ezekiel 36. The underlying issue is not politics: it’s about discerning the times and standing for God.
“So instead of cheering on Israel in this quest for land, isn’t it time we cheered them on towards their true salvation in Jesus instead?”
This is a false dichotomy: one can (and of course should) pray that Jews will come to salvation through Christ, whilst at the same time affirming their God-given right to the land of Israel. These things are not mutually exclusive.
“Unless you seriously believe that these two goals are somehow compatible. If that’s what you’re selling, sorry, I’m not buying.”
I’m sorry you’re sorry.
“Unless I’m missing something here, I’m pretty sure Jesus was preaching salvation comes through Him, and the kingdom follows, not the other way around.”
Has anyone argued otherwise?! The modern state of Israel is not the Kingdom of Heaven! As I said previously, contemporary Israel’s a godless mess, no different from our own nations. The Jews aren’t angelic beings — they’re rotten sinners at heart, like their Arab neighbours, and me, and you, and everybody else on the planet. Biblical support of Israel is not rooted in some quixotic ideal about the Jewish people or a piece of land: it’s rooted in what the Bible says is God’s purpose for the Jews and for that piece of land.
The film you linked to is typical of the sort of thing which is screened routinely in my country on the more popular television channels: the mainstream churches here are generally unsympathetic to Israel in their struggle to live in peace with their neighbours. Yet in the pro-Palestinian documentaries on Israel, the suffering of the Palestinians (which is often horrific) is never shown in its full historical, ideological and geopolitical context — and familiarity with this context is crucial if one is not to be deceived. As I say, the war being waged against Israel is (at least until Iran reaches nuclear capability) predominantly a propaganda war, wherein deception is used to devastating effect.
I write this as I think you may just be genuinely and honestly confused about what’s going on: the general media are both prejudiced against Israel and lax when it comes to doing their own job properly. …Yet they effectively do Hamas’s job for them. There are some web-based news sites out there which try to balance some of the distortions and attempt to hold the mainstream media to account (here’s one based in my own country). Sadly they have rather limited success in the latter regard. Still, I see that even The Huffington Post (anything but a friend of Israel) has realised that the Mavi Marmara incident was simply part of the propaganda war.
If you are interested in getting a deeper understanding of the roots of the conflict and how it accords with Scripture, ask Dr. Brown (or a member of his staff) to recommend some reading material to this end. He’s more of a bookworm than am I and will doubtless be able to give you better directions than I…
Lastly, I wish you well in your search for answers, Rob, and shall pray for you (I’d appreciate your prayers, too). We live an age when deception abounds (both in the world and in the church), but God’s Word is sure and as reliable now as it was in Jesus’ day. There has never been a more crucial time to know and accept and trust it. And to know and love its Author, too.
Spirit of religion. We need to be aware of it.
REMOVED? “Flotilla Choir’s video on YouTube”
“This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Warner/ Chappell Music, Inc. .”
…do you know anything about this? Seems odd…?
J., I found this article re: your question, linking here…
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/12/inevitable-youtube-pulls-we-con-the-world-video/
Here is a response to the link in Ewan’s post, #32, above. Let’s keep the insightful discussion going!
http://philipernestwilliams.wordpress.com/
New video by the group that brought us the first spoof on the Mavi Marmara – for the library:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmffgIqlAYA