I wish you would make it clear of what you agreed and disagreed with Dr.Demar other than being a short term pessimist and long term optimist. On most of his teachings I disagreed…..would love to know where you stood on the various subjects he spoke on.
Oh well….maybe next time.
Mat 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. / Great guest!!We thank God for Government But
we know God works on a mans Heart first.
This was a fascinating and timely topic. The tiny slice was just an appetizer, though.
I look forward to future conversations between yourself, Dr. Brown, and Dr. Demar. Thanks so much.
“Myths, Lies, and Half-Truths” is definitely on my must-have list.
why are you not a pretrib-er? can you give me scripture for pre trib, mid-trib, and post-trib. I believe the church will be taken out before that great and terrible day. I believe we will be found blameless before the coming of the LORD. I pray Jehovah Shalom Peace in Jerusalem
Freda, I’ve discussed the pre-trib issue many times on the show here, so search the archives for more information. In short, I am not a pre-trib-er because I am sure it is not taught in the Word.
Hello Dr Brown,
I have tried to listen to the shows that talk about your position on the rapture, pr-trib, mid-trib, and so on, but they are not available.
Thank You
Raul,
We’re looking into the problem. The shows listed here: http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/?s=trib should be relevant, but you’re correct, the files are not available. We should have things corrected soon.
Thanks for your patience.
Thank you Dr Brown,
I have really been blessed by your many teachings and books. I have read What Do Jewish People Think About Jesus?, Revolution in the Church – Challenging The Religious System, and I’m currently reading Israel’s Divine Healer. I am also planning to purchase the 5 volumes of Jewish of Objections and the Jeremy Commentary to start with and once I finish with that I’ll continue to go down the list.
Where I live, there is little if any interest in returning to the Hebrew roots of Christianity, so I’m very thankful for your material and how it has help refocus my life.
God Bless,
Raul
Dr. Brown;
After listening to this broadcast the question came to my mind as to why God’s Word is not clearer? I can understand how individual biases can color Scriptural interpretation. I can understand how some people just lack the clarity of thought to see what is present. But here you have Gary Demar who appears to be a clear thinker at odds with other clear thinkers such as yourself and the likes of the Norman Geisler (in my opinion—one of the clearest minds I have ever encountered) at odds with each other, even though both are using the same material. It seems that if God revealed certain things to us in His Word, then He wanted us to understand what He has spoken—else why speak? So why are there so many intramural debates?
If I understand you correctly, you seem to put a great deal of stock in what you hear from God. God has directed you to leave one position for another; God has convinced you at a subjective level of certain Biblical truths. Yet in one of your books (“Our Hands are Stained with Blood—if memory serves correctly) you spoke of a man that spent hours on his face before the Lord and came to the conclusion that Israel had been replaced by the church. So how is it that two men who sincerely seek the Lord’s face come away from their encounters with opposite conclusions?
In summary then, we appear to have Scripture that is interpreted to come to opposite conclusions, and subjective encounters that lead to opposite conclusions. How does one make sense of this?
S. Johnson,
As far as doctrine is concerned, I put everything on what I find written in the Word, and I don’t believe I have ever said a single time on the show that I changed my doctrinal views because of something I “heard” from God outside of His Word. And I am on record as saying that you can pray all day but you will find doctrine through study of the Word.
That being said, I don’t believe God made everything about the end times totally clear in the Word, hence the massive differences in belief on the subject. I do believe He told us everything we need to know on the subject and as we study and pray and humble ourselves before Him in obedience, He will reveal to us through His Word (by His Spirit) what is essential for us to know at whatever point in history we find ourselves.
My appologies. Perhaps I conflated the subjective experiences brought to DOCTRINAL issues with subjective experience on PERSONAL guidance. The latter I believe you have stressed heavily in your teachings (although interestingly, not much on your broadcasts–at least the many that I have heard). I would actually love to hear a show on your views of the subjective experience. It seems you have struck a balance between cold scholarship and richness of subjective interaction in prayer life.
And while I understand that everything about the last times may not be clear, should that which is available at least not lead to contradictions?
S. Johnson — no problem at all. And yes, I should do some teaching on the very real leading and witness of the Spirit one of these days.
As for the available data on the end times, perhaps if we major on the majors we won’t have so many contradictions! Also, as we get closer to the end, I firmly believe things will become clearer.
Interesting interview…It seems that after mentioning slavery Gary forgot to mention what we did to the American Indians and how the “TRAIL of TEARS” and many other such incidents along with the push west were completely “antichrist”. And who were the “real” Christians the ones who burned witches at the stake or the ones who sent out small pox in blankets to the Indians. Most denominations could hardly tolerate each other and the colonies were divided along denominational lines for the most part. The same question could be asked was Israel really Jewish by Gods definition and we find no it wasnt..
ROMANS 9: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God
ROMANS 10:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And so I believe its the same with America only a true remnant known to God are and have been really His. Many things were / are done in Gods name without His approval by people with their own worldly and national agendas. Christ changed the law and set a new standard with the new covenant and just as the Catholic church had done to Jews much of America & Britians Christian “manifest destiny” derived its self appointed approval falsely interpreted from passages in the OT such as Joshua & Cannan. And I think until we as believers are really willing to look at our past and our national sins admitting and recompencing our wrong doing we will be blinded with nationalistic pride. If we are not careful God will give us over to our sin completely which I think is basically whats happening in America today. The church is an ever splintering basket case and will never I repeat never “bring in the kingdom” that will happen with the 2nd coming of Christ through Israel. Anyway there is alot of insightful truth in this short little video… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s44NXlGfwOg
Thanks, caucazhin.
It is this history (and of course, it goes on and on) that so often does gets painted “in sable tones” which exemplifies how people can go wrong by thinking they are doing God’s work without His Love.
The two main commandments for a believer in the Messiah, Jesus, are to love God with all one’s heart, soul and mind, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself. [Matthew 22:36-39] By that standard, where was the example of Christianity in the treatment of the natives of America, whose lands were stolen through murder? How could this whole enterprise be justified? Not by considering the natives “neighbors” or equals, but as an inferior species, well in keeping with the latest advancements in “science” at that time.
Was it not in no small part for the love of money (which Paul calls the root of all evil*) that America was created, a capitalistic (money-istic) enterprise? Do we not make the very same mistakes today, asserting our hegemony in the global marketplace, belitting the people whose livelihoods are pulled out from underneath them, while touting the latest science, as in the theft of their seeds through [unwanted and forced] genetic modification and patenting?
When will the name of Jesus no longer be used to spearhead incursions into the lives of others whose own resources we deem necessary for our expansionism?
In short, when will we “love our neighbor as ourselves”? For until we can do so, we should not dare to call ourselves Christians.
It is a dangerous alliance, an unholy marriage, when church and state are hand in glove, unless the state can truly cast its crown before the God of Love and become an instrument of His justice, mercy, and peace.
* 1 Timothy 6:10
What lens do we use to assess US faith/religious involvement in its foundations? The Deist lens best fits the founding fathers, in spite of churchmen largely filling the Continental Army officer ranks. What is truth, and what is romance?
Another lens which is currently placed on it all is current equal rights advocacies, multiculturalism, and reactionary views on the actual literal fact of slavery and its acceptance–at the time–by the likes of Jefferson and company. How does one, with such lenses in play, then assert that the Children of Israel, were acting on God’s bidding to wipe out all levels of population in the Promised Land, without placing this reality in context, rather than with current notions of justice and truth Lenses?
It is obvious that those of faith were motivated to take up muskets and do to the British other than the Golden Rule, due to the beliefs and passions involved at that time. So, contextualism of the USA experience is vital to understanding it with hindsight.
Dr. M.B. Are you a prewrath catching up of the saints understander?
AMEN Ruth & Jabez ! ! !
We’ve had the New Covenant writings for some time now, and these clearly show us that we are to live by these two decrees, because “All of the Law and the Prophets are dependent on these two commandments.” Jesus [Yeshua], Matthew 22:40.
So to be righteous in God’s eyes today still includes obedience, in spirit and truth. We’re to manifest, in all our dealings, whether civil or familial, those two commandments, actualized through us by the indwelling being of our beloved Lord, who says, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Matthew 22:37-39. The greatest two commandments, and we can clearly see they’re all about loving.
Are we supposed to worry about our security? And what we’ll eat and drink? He is teaching us to pursue righteousness first.
Giving up acquiesence to the ways of the world and changing the way we deal with each other. New wine, new wineskins. Letting God protect us, trusting Him to “add unto us” whatever we need.
We see our enemies. And they do indeed mean us harm. And we can’t seem to bless them. Instead we aim at one another. Can we — can we find it within our collective soul to love our enemies?? Will there ever be a time when we can manifest this in the world?
“If you have done it to the least of these you have done it unto me” We could honestly argue that the whole war for independence was unbiblical or at the least certianly unchristian… I found the whole film if anyones interested
Verily, love is supposed to conquer all. While this true Spirit of love coordinates with the human volition in order to materialize and make effects its fruits, we know for sure that multitudes of committed anti-christs continue to thrive in all human history.
We gear ourselves up at all times for this Great Spiritual Battle. The Word of God is our only weapon.
By this it means that we true believers needed to be crucified with Christ, and one of the harshest whips that we take is that which comes from forgiving our enemies.
Dr. Brown,
Good to hear Gary Demar’s position on domionism and government; I was in agreement generally with his statements.
Very nice that you could have a cordial discussion with a Preterist. Did you find it necessary to be condescending towards pre-tribbers?
“Neither of us are pre-trib dispensationalists, neither of us are just looking to escape because everything is crumbling down, there’s nothing we can do.”
-Dr. Brown
I’d put this in the same category as Gary North’s infamous statement:
“Christians living today supposedly will escape this supposedly burning building because we all have been issued free tickets on God’s helicopter escape.”
-Gary North
My point – it is possible to be pre-trib and NOT have an escapist mentality, which at the same time looking forward to the “lessed hope?” Personally, I’ll be happy to stay around for the tribulation if that is God’s will for me.
I think your characture of pre-tribbers is unfair. To make it clear I’m not interested in re-hashing eschatological viewpoints, just would like a little respect here. To that mutual end, I promise not to make jokes about the “great U-turn rapture.”
-Bill
blessed hope. sorry
Bill,
I was a pre-tribber, saved in a pre-trib church, and I witnessed a whole generation of believers having an escapist mentality, even to this day, hence my concerns. As I deal more with preterists and see issues of concern, I will be sure to raise them.
The sad fact is that the best-selling pre-trib materials — Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind, etc. — do feed into an escapist mentality and/or a pessimistic eschatology, and that simply cannot be denied.
That would be a great day. When Love conquers all.
Ruth, Whoeha, a read of later Zech. and the Revelation to John shows that love dishing out harsh justice for gathered troops at and after the Return.
You are right, Jabez…
BTW, what or who is “Whoeha?”
Isaiah 66:12-14
For this is what the LORD says: “I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream; you will nurse and be carried on her arm and dandled on her knees. As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.” When you see this, your heart will rejoice and you will flourish like grass; the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes.
Dr. Brown,
Not sure I’ve actually read either of those books. I’m comimg from the perspective of pre-trib but “occupying (keep busy with kingdom stuff) til He comes.”
Anyhow, good show.
-Bill
Gary DeMar has a set of short video clips that give succinct answers to common eschatology objections, especially those of the premillenial dispensationalist. I started looking into the claims of preterism in general and found many different threads of it rather than finding it to be monolithic as it has been charicaturized by many who nay say it’s basic hermenuetic. A man named Jay Rogers has a YouTube channel that hosts Gary DeMars Q&A and also has a video series from Dr. Ken Gentry that would be a good primer for those wanting to get their toes into preterism to at least understand it. I don’t want to put the links here because, though others have linked to sites, I don’t know how Dr. Brown feels about people throwing links around so I’ll wait for his okay, or you internet savy folks could just scrounge up the sites yourselves.
It’s good to watch if for no other reason than to force yourself to listen to what you THINK you don’t agree with. You might be surprised to find out that what you think you don’t agree with you don’t even understand well enough to criticize.
Blessings in Christ, mark jr.
Ruth, Whoeha is an expressive which might have an explanation point after it. It would be the equivalent of nonprofane expletives stated as a kind of rushing convergent emotional realization happening all at once regarding a rush of acceptance of the phenomena of: “wait a minute in concluding much of an angle on this point, as life will deal with this differently than what is implied as God’s acting pacifistically!”
And, add, so where’s Waldo in the theological scene as it was painted to be (by apparently portraying God one way/?
Ask yourself the vital question of when Waldo is coming home so to speak, and how so, after reading what you implied.
Thanks for clearing that up for me!
Not!
LOL
Jabez, I just meant (jokingly) that what you wrote was not really clear. I’m not getting the Waldo reference….are you saying “Where’s Waldo?” and meaning “Where’s God?”
Are you saying I’m expecting Him to be a “pacifist” when prophecies indicate He will be making war on His enemies (and being, of course, victorious)?
Are you saying that because of this, we are not commanded to love our enemies?
“Intercession is the primary means that God has chosen to release His government both in His relationship with Jesus within the fellowship of the Trinity and with His people now and forever. The majesty and mystery of intercession is seen first and most in Jesus’ relationship with the Father.
Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. (Ps. 2:8) ”
-Allen Hood
“We’re not afraid of the great tribulation, the judgment of God, we’re releasing it. We’re not victims that are fearful and helpless, we’re participants. We’re agents in God’s hands, loosing through prayers of faith supernatural provisions for the saints and heavenly arsenals striking the power bases – the political and military and economic power bases across the world, the Holy Spirit will release Heavenly arsenal and strike and literally and physically destroy them through the prayers of faith of the unified body of Christ.”
-Mike Bickle
Ruth, The unclarity went both ways. The Waldo children’s books scenes as indicative of what seemed to be being presented as only inclusive of a scene where Waldo (God) was present as it was framed to be.
And yes, humor was flowing both ways apparently as well.
Great Show Dr. Brown!
I hope and pray that you and Dr. Demar will be able to dialogue on Israel and end-time events. I think it would be hugely popular and fruitful. Thanks for all you do.
I wish you would make it clear of what you agreed
and disagreed with Dr.Demar other than being
a short term pessimist and long term optimist. On
most of his teachings I disagreed…..would love to know where you stood on the various subjects he
spoke on.
Oh well….maybe next time.
Mat 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. / Great guest!!We thank God for Government But
we know God works on a mans Heart first.
This was a fascinating and timely topic. The tiny slice was just an appetizer, though.
I look forward to future conversations between yourself, Dr. Brown, and Dr. Demar. Thanks so much.
“Myths, Lies, and Half-Truths” is definitely on my must-have list.
why are you not a pretrib-er?
can you give me scripture for pre trib, mid-trib, and post-trib.
I believe the church will be taken out before that great and terrible day. I believe we will be found blameless before the coming of the LORD.
I pray Jehovah Shalom Peace in Jerusalem
Freda, I’ve discussed the pre-trib issue many times on the show here, so search the archives for more information. In short, I am not a pre-trib-er because I am sure it is not taught in the Word.
Hello Dr Brown,
I have tried to listen to the shows that talk about your position on the rapture, pr-trib, mid-trib, and so on, but they are not available.
Thank You
Raul,
We’re looking into the problem. The shows listed here: http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/?s=trib should be relevant, but you’re correct, the files are not available. We should have things corrected soon.
Thanks for your patience.
Thank you Dr Brown,
I have really been blessed by your many teachings and books. I have read What Do Jewish People Think About Jesus?, Revolution in the Church – Challenging The Religious System, and I’m currently reading Israel’s Divine Healer.
I am also planning to purchase the 5 volumes of Jewish of Objections and the Jeremy Commentary to start with and once I finish with that I’ll continue to go down the list.
Where I live, there is little if any interest in returning to the Hebrew roots of Christianity, so I’m very thankful for your material and how it has help refocus my life.
God Bless,
Raul
Dr. Brown;
After listening to this broadcast the question came to my mind as to why God’s Word is not clearer? I can understand how individual biases can color Scriptural interpretation. I can understand how some people just lack the clarity of thought to see what is present. But here you have Gary Demar who appears to be a clear thinker at odds with other clear thinkers such as yourself and the likes of the Norman Geisler (in my opinion—one of the clearest minds I have ever encountered) at odds with each other, even though both are using the same material. It seems that if God revealed certain things to us in His Word, then He wanted us to understand what He has spoken—else why speak? So why are there so many intramural debates?
If I understand you correctly, you seem to put a great deal of stock in what you hear from God. God has directed you to leave one position for another; God has convinced you at a subjective level of certain Biblical truths. Yet in one of your books (“Our Hands are Stained with Blood—if memory serves correctly) you spoke of a man that spent hours on his face before the Lord and came to the conclusion that Israel had been replaced by the church. So how is it that two men who sincerely seek the Lord’s face come away from their encounters with opposite conclusions?
In summary then, we appear to have Scripture that is interpreted to come to opposite conclusions, and subjective encounters that lead to opposite conclusions. How does one make sense of this?
S. Johnson,
As far as doctrine is concerned, I put everything on what I find written in the Word, and I don’t believe I have ever said a single time on the show that I changed my doctrinal views because of something I “heard” from God outside of His Word. And I am on record as saying that you can pray all day but you will find doctrine through study of the Word.
That being said, I don’t believe God made everything about the end times totally clear in the Word, hence the massive differences in belief on the subject. I do believe He told us everything we need to know on the subject and as we study and pray and humble ourselves before Him in obedience, He will reveal to us through His Word (by His Spirit) what is essential for us to know at whatever point in history we find ourselves.
My appologies. Perhaps I conflated the subjective experiences brought to DOCTRINAL issues with subjective experience on PERSONAL guidance. The latter I believe you have stressed heavily in your teachings (although interestingly, not much on your broadcasts–at least the many that I have heard). I would actually love to hear a show on your views of the subjective experience. It seems you have struck a balance between cold scholarship and richness of subjective interaction in prayer life.
And while I understand that everything about the last times may not be clear, should that which is available at least not lead to contradictions?
S. Johnson — no problem at all. And yes, I should do some teaching on the very real leading and witness of the Spirit one of these days.
As for the available data on the end times, perhaps if we major on the majors we won’t have so many contradictions! Also, as we get closer to the end, I firmly believe things will become clearer.
Interesting interview…It seems that after mentioning slavery Gary forgot to mention what we did to the American Indians and how the “TRAIL of TEARS” and many other such incidents along with the push west were completely “antichrist”.
And who were the “real” Christians the ones who burned witches at the stake or the ones who sent out small pox in blankets to the Indians. Most denominations could hardly tolerate each other and the colonies were divided along denominational lines for the most part.
The same question could be asked was Israel really Jewish by Gods definition and we find no it wasnt..
ROMANS 9:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God
ROMANS 10:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And so I believe its the same with America only a true remnant known to God are and have been really His.
Many things were / are done in Gods name without His approval by people with their own worldly and national agendas.
Christ changed the law and set a new standard with the new covenant and just as the Catholic church had done to Jews much of America & Britians Christian “manifest destiny” derived its self appointed approval falsely interpreted from passages in the OT such as Joshua & Cannan.
And I think until we as believers are really willing to look at our past and our national sins admitting and recompencing our wrong doing we will be blinded with nationalistic pride.
If we are not careful God will give us over to our sin completely which I think is basically whats happening in America today.
The church is an ever splintering basket case and will never I repeat never “bring in the kingdom” that will happen with the 2nd coming of Christ through Israel.
Anyway there is alot of insightful truth in this short little video…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s44NXlGfwOg
Thanks, caucazhin.
It is this history (and of course, it goes on and on) that so often does gets painted “in sable tones” which exemplifies how people can go wrong by thinking they are doing God’s work without His Love.
The two main commandments for a believer in the Messiah, Jesus, are to love God with all one’s heart, soul and mind, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself. [Matthew 22:36-39] By that standard, where was the example of Christianity in the treatment of the natives of America, whose lands were stolen through murder? How could this whole enterprise be justified? Not by considering the natives “neighbors” or equals, but as an inferior species, well in keeping with the latest advancements in “science” at that time.
Was it not in no small part for the love of money (which Paul calls the root of all evil*) that America was created, a capitalistic (money-istic) enterprise? Do we not make the very same mistakes today, asserting our hegemony in the global marketplace, belitting the people whose livelihoods are pulled out from underneath them, while touting the latest science, as in the theft of their seeds through [unwanted and forced] genetic modification and patenting?
When will the name of Jesus no longer be used to spearhead incursions into the lives of others whose own resources we deem necessary for our expansionism?
In short, when will we “love our neighbor as ourselves”? For until we can do so, we should not dare to call ourselves Christians.
It is a dangerous alliance, an unholy marriage, when church and state are hand in glove, unless the state can truly cast its crown before the God of Love and become an instrument of His justice, mercy, and peace.
* 1 Timothy 6:10
What lens do we use to assess US faith/religious involvement in its foundations? The Deist lens best fits the founding fathers, in spite of churchmen largely filling the Continental Army officer ranks. What is truth, and what is romance?
Another lens which is currently placed on it all is current equal rights advocacies, multiculturalism, and reactionary views on the actual literal fact of slavery and its acceptance–at the time–by the likes of Jefferson and company. How does one, with such lenses in play, then assert that the Children of Israel, were acting on God’s bidding to wipe out all levels of population in the Promised Land, without placing this reality in context, rather than with current notions of justice and truth Lenses?
It is obvious that those of faith were motivated to take up muskets and do to the British other than the Golden Rule, due to the beliefs and passions involved at that time. So, contextualism of the USA experience is vital to understanding it with hindsight.
Dr. M.B. Are you a prewrath catching up of the saints understander?
AMEN Ruth & Jabez ! ! !
We’ve had the New Covenant writings for some time now, and these clearly show us that we are to live by these two decrees, because “All of the Law and the Prophets are dependent on these two commandments.” Jesus [Yeshua], Matthew 22:40.
So to be righteous in God’s eyes today still includes obedience, in spirit and truth. We’re to manifest, in all our dealings, whether civil or familial, those two commandments, actualized through us by the indwelling being of our beloved Lord, who says, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Matthew 22:37-39. The greatest two commandments, and we can clearly see they’re all about loving.
Are we supposed to worry about our security? And what we’ll eat and drink? He is teaching us to pursue righteousness first.
Giving up acquiesence to the ways of the world and changing the way we deal with each other. New wine, new wineskins. Letting God protect us, trusting Him to “add unto us” whatever we need.
We see our enemies. And they do indeed mean us harm. And we can’t seem to bless them. Instead we aim at one another. Can we — can we find it within our collective soul to love our enemies?? Will there ever be a time when we can manifest this in the world?
“If you have done it to the least of these you have done it unto me”
We could honestly argue that the whole war for independence was unbiblical or at the least certianly unchristian…
I found the whole film if anyones interested
http://www.archive.org/details/NoamChomsky-WarAndRemembrance-2003
Verily, love is supposed to conquer all. While this true Spirit of love coordinates with the human volition in order to materialize and make effects its fruits, we know for sure that multitudes of committed anti-christs continue to thrive in all human history.
We gear ourselves up at all times for this Great Spiritual Battle. The Word of God is our only weapon.
By this it means that we true believers needed to be crucified with Christ, and one of the harshest whips that we take is that which comes from forgiving our enemies.
Dr. Brown,
Good to hear Gary Demar’s position on domionism and government; I was in agreement generally with his statements.
Very nice that you could have a cordial discussion with a Preterist. Did you find it necessary to be condescending towards pre-tribbers?
“Neither of us are pre-trib dispensationalists, neither of us are just looking to escape because everything is crumbling down, there’s nothing we can do.”
-Dr. Brown
I’d put this in the same category as Gary North’s infamous statement:
“Christians living today supposedly will escape this supposedly burning building because we all have been issued free tickets on God’s helicopter escape.”
-Gary North
My point – it is possible to be pre-trib and NOT have an escapist mentality, which at the same time looking forward to the “lessed hope?” Personally, I’ll be happy to stay around for the tribulation if that is God’s will for me.
I think your characture of pre-tribbers is unfair. To make it clear I’m not interested in re-hashing eschatological viewpoints, just would like a little respect here. To that mutual end, I promise not to make jokes about the “great U-turn rapture.”
-Bill
blessed hope. sorry
Bill,
I was a pre-tribber, saved in a pre-trib church, and I witnessed a whole generation of believers having an escapist mentality, even to this day, hence my concerns. As I deal more with preterists and see issues of concern, I will be sure to raise them.
The sad fact is that the best-selling pre-trib materials — Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind, etc. — do feed into an escapist mentality and/or a pessimistic eschatology, and that simply cannot be denied.
That would be a great day. When Love conquers all.
Ruth, Whoeha, a read of later Zech. and the Revelation to John shows that love dishing out harsh justice for gathered troops at and after the Return.
You are right, Jabez…
BTW, what or who is “Whoeha?”
Isaiah 66:12-14
For this is what the LORD says:
“I will extend peace to her like a river,
and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
you will nurse and be carried on her arm
and dandled on her knees.
As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.”
When you see this, your heart will rejoice
and you will flourish like grass;
the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants,
but his fury will be shown to his foes.
Dr. Brown,
Not sure I’ve actually read either of those books. I’m comimg from the perspective of pre-trib but “occupying (keep busy with kingdom stuff) til He comes.”
Anyhow, good show.
-Bill
Gary DeMar has a set of short video clips that give succinct answers to common eschatology objections, especially those of the premillenial dispensationalist. I started looking into the claims of preterism in general and found many different threads of it rather than finding it to be monolithic as it has been charicaturized by many who nay say it’s basic hermenuetic. A man named Jay Rogers has a YouTube channel that hosts Gary DeMars Q&A and also has a video series from Dr. Ken Gentry that would be a good primer for those wanting to get their toes into preterism to at least understand it. I don’t want to put the links here because, though others have linked to sites, I don’t know how Dr. Brown feels about people throwing links around so I’ll wait for his okay, or you internet savy folks could just scrounge up the sites yourselves.
It’s good to watch if for no other reason than to force yourself to listen to what you THINK you don’t agree with. You might be surprised to find out that what you think you don’t agree with you don’t even understand well enough to criticize.
Blessings in Christ,
mark jr.
Ruth, Whoeha is an expressive which might have an explanation point after it. It would be the equivalent of nonprofane expletives stated as a kind of rushing convergent emotional realization happening all at once regarding a rush of acceptance of the phenomena of: “wait a minute in concluding much of an angle on this point, as life will deal with this differently than what is implied as God’s acting pacifistically!”
And, add, so where’s Waldo in the theological scene as it was painted to be (by apparently portraying God one way/?
Ask yourself the vital question of when Waldo is coming home so to speak, and how so, after reading what you implied.
Thanks for clearing that up for me!
Not!
LOL
Jabez, I just meant (jokingly) that what you wrote was not really clear. I’m not getting the Waldo reference….are you saying “Where’s Waldo?” and meaning “Where’s God?”
Are you saying I’m expecting Him to be a “pacifist” when prophecies indicate He will be making war on His enemies (and being, of course, victorious)?
Are you saying that because of this, we are not commanded to love our enemies?
“Intercession is the primary means that God has chosen to release His government both in His relationship with Jesus within the fellowship of the Trinity and with His people now and forever. The majesty and mystery of intercession is seen first and most in Jesus’ relationship with the Father.
Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. (Ps. 2:8) ”
-Allen Hood
“We’re not afraid of the great tribulation, the judgment of God, we’re releasing it. We’re not victims that are fearful and helpless, we’re participants. We’re agents in God’s hands, loosing through prayers of faith supernatural provisions for the saints and heavenly arsenals striking the power bases – the political and military and economic power bases across the world, the Holy Spirit will release Heavenly arsenal and strike and literally and physically destroy them through the prayers of faith of the unified body of Christ.”
-Mike Bickle
Ruth, The unclarity went both ways. The Waldo children’s books scenes as indicative of what seemed to be being presented as only inclusive of a scene where Waldo (God) was present as it was framed to be.
And yes, humor was flowing both ways apparently as well.
Great Show Dr. Brown!
I hope and pray that you and Dr. Demar will be able to dialogue on Israel and end-time events. I think it would be hugely popular and fruitful. Thanks for all you do.
–Amos