I do not ever believe that it is right to “shake your fist” at God and angrily question and acccuse him. He is GOD. He is GOOD no matter what. He is SOVEREIGN. But I do agree with the woman who called in about the missing kids. I do think we should be able to go to Him respectfully, but honestly with some questions we may have. I can’t for the life of me understand why God has not changed some things in my marriage (things that only He can do) and make our marriage the kind that God want us to have and says we should have in His Word. It makes no sense when I am praying in His will and it is clearly stated in His word, why after almost 6 years of praying this it only appears that things are even worse. But it never ever makes me question Gods goodness or His love for me.
Grace, I really do identify with your comments, and it tends to be how I relate to God myself. But I think you’ll agree that there may be other sides to the story for other believers, as I mentioned on the show.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your faith!
First, I just want to share some encouraging verses from the New Testament. 2 Corinthians 12:9a “And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.” Romans 5:3 “And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;” 2 Corinthians 11:23b-31 “in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern? If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.” We see the great suffering that the Apostle Paul had to endure, and yet through his suffering, he rejoices. Here is where I think that Job crossed the line. Job 32:1 “So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.” Now this verse says to me that Job was doing exactly the thing that the Apostle Paul spoke of in the book of Romans. Romans 10:3 “For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.” I don’t know if Job was being entirely ignorant of God’s righteousness, but I do notice Job seeking to establish his own righteousness as I read his own words in the book of Job. I would also add that Job, in the end, learned to submit himself to God’s righteousness, but throughout the book of Job, it seemed to me like Job was questioning God’s righteousness because of the great suffering in his life. When we take a look at the Apostle Paul and his life of sufferings, we can see that he had great faith in God, especially in his sufferings. I think that this was clearly shown in 2 Corinthians 11:30-31 where the Apostle Paul writes “If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.” And last but not least is the perfect example for each of our own lives, our Lord Jesus Christ, the captain and author of our salvation. Hebrews 2:10 “ For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.” I think that we can all agree that this verse clearly states that our Savior and overcomer was perfected through the sufferings that he had to endure. Did Jesus deserve to suffer? 1 Peter 2:19 “For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.” Can we say that Jesus did anything wrong and deserved to suffer for his sins? No! Jesus was sent by God to suffer on the cross, and I believe that this was his top priority. He submitted himself to God, which meant obeying God’s command to suffer. 1 Peter 2:20b-23 “but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.” Finally, I want to say that I will never know the suffering that Job had to go through who was a man that feared God and eschewed evil. I know that in my own life, I am suffering, but it is largely due to terrible sins that I’ve committed. Suffering for doing what is right, as in Job’s case, is beyond my comprehension, at least for today. I am like the man on the cross beside Jesus at the crucifixion who said “And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man (Yeshua) has done nothing wrong.” I believe that God’s word to us is that in any circumstance that we encounter in this life, we should bow down and worship the God who is King both now and forever.
Grace, I remember reading from a book about marriage that it’s designed not to make people happy but to make them holy.
I remember how the scripture says that Jesus was made perfect through sufferings, (Heb 2:10) even the suffering of the cross. If he needed to suffer being already perfect, how much more do we need some suffering.
I don’t think it’s ever right to challenge God, unless he says, “Prove me now about this…” (Mal 3:10) but that’s more like an invitation or a proding to do something good.
I think it’s good to ask God about things that are a burden to us as has been said here. I can’t seem to think of challenging God as being a good thing to do. It seems to be rooted in pride, unless there’s another sense of it.
Job seemed to challenge God and now we have his case laid open before us all to read and learn from. I thank God for Job’s life. There’s so much to learn from his book, but I don’t think I should do it. I think I should know better. But knowing and doing are not always the same. (Romans 7:19)
I’ve never been married and don’t know the suffering within that situation, but I wish all married people have someone they can both go to, to plead their case and plead for mercy when it’s due, someone who is willing to hear whatever matter is the cause of any present distress, not preferring one over another, being patient, forbearing, kind, gentle, finding light and good things from the scripture, praying, pleading, being discerning, willing to work through whatever it is that is the cause of any present suffering that need not be so, or that can be eased by an oppressor coming to the knowledge of it and bringing it under the blood of Jesus which has the promise of God.
When will the church lay hold of the Life that is life of Yeshua , the life that transcends this world instead of always trying to fix this broken world and be what the Lord called us to be , and stop measuring God by the World and measure the World by God…Eph 3:16 -19… strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what [is] the width and length and depth and height– to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. [Jesus The Christ the cause of His own effect… when I know this, this trumps all comers.]
Ray, I understand what you are saying. I have definitely been letting God work in me and my attitudes and doing things just because God said so even though the feelings aren’t there. :0)
hello, not wanting to even presume to understand the pain and anguish a brother or sister in Christ Jesus.
All i can share is my testimony.
.. when it all breaks down and you cannot, despite knowing that you shouldn’t, but you cannot help it because it hurts too much…
.. when reading the Word leaves a slightly bitter taste in your mouth because it doesn’t seem like the Truth anymore..
.. when the faith falters..
.. especially when He just remains so quiet when all you need is “its going to be ok because Im’ your God”
I’ve been through it.
And in that walk i’ve found that He reveals Himself in the midst of my suffering, usually not to cause the suffering to stop, but to comfort and to refine.
And when we’re clouded by pain we so often forget that the solution isn’t in the resolution of our problem but that it is a time of training (literally) our eyes on Jesus so that we might walk on water just like Peter….
When we do the word of God but the feeling are not there, what then?
Then God comes with a blessing. His blessings surely come.
I’ve been thinking about this issue a lot in the last year because of the situation I’m in. I am my Dad’s caretaker, 24/7, and he has dementia and partial blindness. This situation for me runs the gamut between being easy at times to being the most challenging, most difficult job I’ve ever had. Recently, I have felt the Lord teaching me specifically through this situation.
When my Dad needs to go to the bathroom, he can’t get there on his own. He can’t see well enough, and he can’t remember where it is. I guide him along, sometimes taking his hand, sometimes just directing with my voice. During the “long walk,” because he literally inches along, he sometimes hesitates and then just stops. At that point, I have asked him, “Do you trust me?” He always says, “Yes, I trust you with my whole heart.” “Okay then,” I reply, “If you trust me, then just keep walking this way.” He’ll boldly step where he can’t see for awhile, but then fall back into confusion and doubt again. Sometimes, depending on how patient I am, this can get pretty irritating. And I’ve wondered if the Lord ever finds it irritating that He guides us, but we keep on questioning. At some point, trust, genuine trust, has to sink in, and we have to step out into the unknown, just knowing that He can see, even if we can’t.
Even in Job’s situation, God knew the total outcome. So Job’s truth was his truth at that given point. He could not see further down the road. And depending on one’s viewpoint on the afterlife, one might even say that Job still doesn’t know what’s in store for him.
So what the Lord has laid on my heart is that while questioning can be completely valid, it can also become a habit, albeit a very human one. Trust is something that is active. Saying, “I trust You, Lord, with my whole heart” sounds nice and deep, but it’s proven by action. Do we DO the thing He tells us to do, not knowing how it will affect things in ways and places we cannot tell, or do we hold back, saying we trust but not acting so? I know these are universal issues, but the Lord has really been pressing this upon my own heart because I have praised Him from the depths of my heart, yet not always obeyed when true and simple trust would have made me obey. And just as I can get tired of hearing my Dad say “I trust you” yet proving otherwise, I’m considering that the Lord also wearies of our actionless words. Compared to the Lord, we are that blind person, being guided by His voice, or at times, even taken by His hand. Let’s not weary Him with the kind of constant questioning which needs to know all the details, much of which really is beyond our comprehension, but learn the art of letting go. I believe children manifest this quite naturally. I just hope to remember this lesson, and most of all, put it into practice in my daily walk with Him. Please take a moment to pray for me and for the Body in this regard. Thank you; God be praised!
At the beginning of the show you mentioned whether it is right to blame God, or to challenge God because when people do it in the Bible they repent anyway. If it was ok to do, why would repentance be necessary? What about this… Zacharias was made mute because he questioned the angel’s message. I think it is because he was given already God’s word (through Abraham/Sarah) that a baren, aged couple could conceive if God says so. Is this a way, sort of, of saying we shouldn’t challenge God, because in the Bible men challenge God and they are shown to have to repent of it. If I question God, and go ahead and do what I want, I am wrong, If I question God- yet obey, then that is trust.
Thank you Steve. God bless you.
I needed that personally. Shalom.
Hi Dr. Brown and friends,
I’m commenting on this radio show because I want to abide by your simple rule of staying on topic. Well, I was reading the news today, and I found out that a 9-year old boy was the sole survivor of a plane crash in Africa. Sadly, 103 people died in the crash, and the young boy, who was traveling with his parents and older brother, was the only survivor. The young boy’s name is Ruben van Assouw, and he is at the Tripoli’s El Khadra hospital in Libya. The report says that the boy could not remember what happened when he woke up in the hospital. He lost a lot of blood, and he is healing well from multiple fractures to his legs. The young boy fortunately has an aunt and uncle who rushed from the Netherlands to see him. I was touched when I saw a picture of the young boy in the hospital. I can’t imagine being at that age and losing my whole family. I believe that the boy and his family were on a family vacation. I think that this story touched my heart more because I have a younger brother around the same age. Please say a prayer for the young boy. I pray that God comforts his heart.
Hi I was asking myself this question this morning! I dont know why, but it seems to be an answered prayer to find this conversation! Now it make a lot of sense! God really finds a way!
great help jason & steve!
you have a good message here cos i was telling my wife that it is not good to challenge GOD
cos i’m not happy when people say they challenging GOD,i see it to be stupid.
This topic & thought of brethren had today change me. Because i sometime made such mistake of asking The King of kings, Lord of lords, Elshadai, IAM THAT IAM, Maker of heaven & earth these question. Today i pray to God Almighty to forgive me & promise never to do such again.
I do not ever believe that it is right to “shake your fist” at God and angrily question and acccuse him. He is GOD. He is GOOD no matter what. He is SOVEREIGN. But I do agree with the woman who called in about the missing kids. I do think we should be able to go to Him respectfully, but honestly with some questions we may have. I can’t for the life of me understand why God has not changed some things in my marriage (things that only He can do) and make our marriage the kind that God want us to have and says we should have in His Word. It makes no sense when I am praying in His will and it is clearly stated in His word, why after almost 6 years of praying this it only appears that things are even worse. But it never ever makes me question Gods goodness or His love for me.
Grace, I really do identify with your comments, and it tends to be how I relate to God myself. But I think you’ll agree that there may be other sides to the story for other believers, as I mentioned on the show.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your faith!
First, I just want to share some encouraging verses from the New Testament. 2 Corinthians 12:9a “And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.” Romans 5:3 “And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;” 2 Corinthians 11:23b-31 “in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern? If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.” We see the great suffering that the Apostle Paul had to endure, and yet through his suffering, he rejoices. Here is where I think that Job crossed the line. Job 32:1 “So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.” Now this verse says to me that Job was doing exactly the thing that the Apostle Paul spoke of in the book of Romans. Romans 10:3 “For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.” I don’t know if Job was being entirely ignorant of God’s righteousness, but I do notice Job seeking to establish his own righteousness as I read his own words in the book of Job. I would also add that Job, in the end, learned to submit himself to God’s righteousness, but throughout the book of Job, it seemed to me like Job was questioning God’s righteousness because of the great suffering in his life. When we take a look at the Apostle Paul and his life of sufferings, we can see that he had great faith in God, especially in his sufferings. I think that this was clearly shown in 2 Corinthians 11:30-31 where the Apostle Paul writes “If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.” And last but not least is the perfect example for each of our own lives, our Lord Jesus Christ, the captain and author of our salvation. Hebrews 2:10 “ For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.” I think that we can all agree that this verse clearly states that our Savior and overcomer was perfected through the sufferings that he had to endure. Did Jesus deserve to suffer? 1 Peter 2:19 “For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.” Can we say that Jesus did anything wrong and deserved to suffer for his sins? No! Jesus was sent by God to suffer on the cross, and I believe that this was his top priority. He submitted himself to God, which meant obeying God’s command to suffer. 1 Peter 2:20b-23 “but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.” Finally, I want to say that I will never know the suffering that Job had to go through who was a man that feared God and eschewed evil. I know that in my own life, I am suffering, but it is largely due to terrible sins that I’ve committed. Suffering for doing what is right, as in Job’s case, is beyond my comprehension, at least for today. I am like the man on the cross beside Jesus at the crucifixion who said “And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man (Yeshua) has done nothing wrong.” I believe that God’s word to us is that in any circumstance that we encounter in this life, we should bow down and worship the God who is King both now and forever.
Grace,
I remember reading from a book about marriage that it’s designed not to make people happy but to make them holy.
I remember how the scripture says that Jesus was made perfect through sufferings, (Heb 2:10) even the suffering of the cross. If he needed to suffer being already perfect, how much more do we need some suffering.
I don’t think it’s ever right to challenge God, unless he says, “Prove me now about this…” (Mal 3:10) but that’s more like an invitation or a proding to do something good.
I think it’s good to ask God about things that are a burden to us
as has been said here. I can’t seem to think of challenging God as being a good thing to do. It seems to be rooted in pride, unless there’s another sense of it.
Job seemed to challenge God and now we have his case laid open before us all to read and learn from. I thank God for Job’s life. There’s so much to learn from his book, but I don’t think I should do it. I think I should know better. But knowing and doing are not always the same. (Romans 7:19)
I’ve never been married and don’t know the suffering within that
situation, but I wish all married people have someone they can both go to, to plead their case and plead for mercy when it’s due, someone who is willing to hear whatever matter is the cause of any present distress, not preferring one over another, being patient, forbearing, kind, gentle, finding light and good things from the scripture, praying, pleading, being discerning, willing to work through whatever it is that is the cause of any present suffering that need not be so, or that can be eased by an oppressor coming to the knowledge of it and bringing it under the blood of Jesus which has the promise of God.
When will the church lay hold of the Life that is life of Yeshua , the life that transcends this world instead of always trying to fix this broken world and be what the Lord called us to be , and stop measuring God by the World and measure the World by God…Eph 3:16 -19… strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what [is] the width and length and depth and height– to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. [Jesus The Christ the cause of His own effect… when I know this, this trumps all comers.]
Ray, I understand what you are saying. I have definitely been letting God work in me and my attitudes and doing things just because God said so even though the feelings aren’t there. :0)
hello, not wanting to even presume to understand the pain and anguish a brother or sister in Christ Jesus.
All i can share is my testimony.
.. when it all breaks down and you cannot, despite knowing that you shouldn’t, but you cannot help it because it hurts too much…
.. when reading the Word leaves a slightly bitter taste in your mouth because it doesn’t seem like the Truth anymore..
.. when the faith falters..
.. especially when He just remains so quiet when all you need is “its going to be ok because Im’ your God”
I’ve been through it.
And in that walk i’ve found that He reveals Himself in the midst of my suffering, usually not to cause the suffering to stop, but to comfort and to refine.
And when we’re clouded by pain we so often forget that the solution isn’t in the resolution of our problem but that it is a time of training (literally) our eyes on Jesus so that we might walk on water just like Peter….
Fight the good fight of faith. 🙂
http://messiah.com.es/demo/video.html
When we do the word of God but the feeling are not there, what then?
Then God comes with a blessing. His blessings surely come.
I’ve been thinking about this issue a lot in the last year because of the situation I’m in. I am my Dad’s caretaker, 24/7, and he has dementia and partial blindness. This situation for me runs the gamut between being easy at times to being the most challenging, most difficult job I’ve ever had. Recently, I have felt the Lord teaching me specifically through this situation.
When my Dad needs to go to the bathroom, he can’t get there on his own. He can’t see well enough, and he can’t remember where it is. I guide him along, sometimes taking his hand, sometimes just directing with my voice. During the “long walk,” because he literally inches along, he sometimes hesitates and then just stops. At that point, I have asked him, “Do you trust me?” He always says, “Yes, I trust you with my whole heart.” “Okay then,” I reply, “If you trust me, then just keep walking this way.” He’ll boldly step where he can’t see for awhile, but then fall back into confusion and doubt again. Sometimes, depending on how patient I am, this can get pretty irritating. And I’ve wondered if the Lord ever finds it irritating that He guides us, but we keep on questioning. At some point, trust, genuine trust, has to sink in, and we have to step out into the unknown, just knowing that He can see, even if we can’t.
Even in Job’s situation, God knew the total outcome. So Job’s truth was his truth at that given point. He could not see further down the road. And depending on one’s viewpoint on the afterlife, one might even say that Job still doesn’t know what’s in store for him.
So what the Lord has laid on my heart is that while questioning can be completely valid, it can also become a habit, albeit a very human one. Trust is something that is active. Saying, “I trust You, Lord, with my whole heart” sounds nice and deep, but it’s proven by action. Do we DO the thing He tells us to do, not knowing how it will affect things in ways and places we cannot tell, or do we hold back, saying we trust but not acting so? I know these are universal issues, but the Lord has really been pressing this upon my own heart because I have praised Him from the depths of my heart, yet not always obeyed when true and simple trust would have made me obey. And just as I can get tired of hearing my Dad say “I trust you” yet proving otherwise, I’m considering that the Lord also wearies of our actionless words. Compared to the Lord, we are that blind person, being guided by His voice, or at times, even taken by His hand. Let’s not weary Him with the kind of constant questioning which needs to know all the details, much of which really is beyond our comprehension, but learn the art of letting go. I believe children manifest this quite naturally. I just hope to remember this lesson, and most of all, put it into practice in my daily walk with Him. Please take a moment to pray for me and for the Body in this regard. Thank you; God be praised!
At the beginning of the show you mentioned whether it is right to blame God, or to challenge God because when people do it in the Bible they repent anyway. If it was ok to do, why would repentance be necessary? What about this… Zacharias was made mute because he questioned the angel’s message. I think it is because he was given already God’s word (through Abraham/Sarah) that a baren, aged couple could conceive if God says so. Is this a way, sort of, of saying we shouldn’t challenge God, because in the Bible men challenge God and they are shown to have to repent of it. If I question God, and go ahead and do what I want, I am wrong, If I question God- yet obey, then that is trust.
Thank you Steve. God bless you.
I needed that personally. Shalom.
Hi Dr. Brown and friends,
I’m commenting on this radio show because I want to abide by your simple rule of staying on topic. Well, I was reading the news today, and I found out that a 9-year old boy was the sole survivor of a plane crash in Africa. Sadly, 103 people died in the crash, and the young boy, who was traveling with his parents and older brother, was the only survivor. The young boy’s name is Ruben van Assouw, and he is at the Tripoli’s El Khadra hospital in Libya. The report says that the boy could not remember what happened when he woke up in the hospital. He lost a lot of blood, and he is healing well from multiple fractures to his legs. The young boy fortunately has an aunt and uncle who rushed from the Netherlands to see him. I was touched when I saw a picture of the young boy in the hospital. I can’t imagine being at that age and losing my whole family. I believe that the boy and his family were on a family vacation. I think that this story touched my heart more because I have a younger brother around the same age. Please say a prayer for the young boy. I pray that God comforts his heart.
Hi
I was asking myself this question this morning! I dont know why, but it seems to be an answered prayer to find this conversation!
Now it make a lot of sense! God really finds a way!
great help jason & steve!
you have a good message here cos i was telling my wife that it is not good to challenge GOD
cos i’m not happy when people say they challenging GOD,i see it to be stupid.
This topic & thought of brethren had today change me. Because i sometime made such mistake of asking The King of kings, Lord of lords, Elshadai, IAM THAT IAM, Maker of heaven & earth these question. Today i pray to God Almighty to forgive me & promise never to do such again.