I only listened to a bit of this as it took so long to download. It seemed to me that Jennifer was not clear on much, but seemed to be saying that she was happy with her life as it is now.
There are Christians and then there are Christians just as there can be teachers and then there are teachers, or prophets and then there are prophets, or straight edges, and then there are straight edges, or dollar bills , and then there are dollar bills.
Two dollar bills might say “Legal Tender” but both might not be so.
There was a character in the book “The Pilgrim’s Progress” that got all the way to the gate of Celestial City, but as he was at the gate, two Shining Ones took him to an opening in the side of a hill and he was throne into hell itself.
His name was Ignorance and he did not understand justification. He wasn’t clear on anything when Christian talked to him.
I always wonder what kind of music did this artist do. Was it really worship music that was truly worship to God? Anyone with a singing voice can sing “How Great Thou Art”, but when it comes to the part about “My Saviour God, to Thee..” , it could be untrue.
I wonder if she wrote any of her music and what the words were.
Too often I’ve listened to what is called worship music that is more worship of self than it is worship to God, as if we don’t know what we worship.
Have you ever taken the words and put them on one side of a vertical line or the other and found out who got more of the worship, self, or God? I don’t think real worship begins until God gets over 50%.
If we worship God we can have faith in God…. If it’s not just in word only. If it’s not the cross, it’s not really Christianity. In this world it’s too easy to forget what we really are like.
She said “the gods” not God.
Rebecca,
Yes she did. You’re absolutely correct. I’m just not sure if it was intended, or a Freudian slip, or a total slip of the tongue. Enough was said, however, to make me deeply question what this young woman means by “Christianity.”
I listened to the complete show. I find that I agree with “things” said by both of the pastors. As I look at the scriptures I see that God does call sin sin. There is a big difference however of commiting sin or falling short and “practicing sin” and making excuses for it instead of seeing that it is wrong in God’s sight. I fall short every day, but I try not to make a “practice ” of them….I had many things that I was doing wrong when I first came to the LORD, and He did not ask me to do away with all of them before we could have a relationship. During the course of our relationship He has pointed out many things to me, one by one. Some of them we have had to work on harder and longer than others and I believe that is what Pastor Haggard is talking about. Does God wait until we are all cleaned up to except us? If that is the case then we all are in big trouble. Again…Jesus did say to the woman caught in adultry, go and sin no more..He was talking about the sin of adultry but I am quite sure that she had many other things to work through besides just that. If Jennifer truely continues to study God’s word with people who are not afraid to call sin sin and she continues to desire a true relationship with God I am sure that sooner or later the Holy Spirit will direct her and convict her…but she will need Christian friends to direct her and pray with her and to pray for her along the way. One other issue I saw was that the world is sooooooo mixed up about not judging….having dicscernment in seeing good fruit and bad fruit is not judgment against that person. We as the body are suppose to be discerning. How else would we know what is good and Godly or what is not good and needs to change?
The issue of choice kept coming up. Many people say that they are born homosexual. This may or may not be true scientifically, but it is no different than me being born with a tendency to lie, or someone being born with a tendency to rebel. We are all born into sin….so who cares if you are born that way….that is the beauty of Christianity…we are to be born again. We are to leave behind the sin we were born into and be born of a new nature that turns from sin.
The argument is not if homosexuality is a choice, but rather is being a Christian a choice. We would all say that it is…..we choose to follow Christ. If we choose to follow anything opposite of Christ, then we are not choosing Christianity…….
The issue is not if people are born gay, but if they are following Christ….We are to take up our cross and follow Him….where did He go when he took up His cross? To His death, so when we follow Him we are heading to death……The death of every sin that we are born into and we get to take part in the power of His resurrection….the resurrection of His life in us…..
Jennifer stated “It’s not on my agenda to convert the world to a religion, but to convert the world to compassion and grace. I’ve experienced that in my life through Christianity.
“Inside” isn’t about the church….If there’s any anger or frustration on this record [her new one called non religious], it’s the desperation to hold onto what is honest and true, and let the rest of it just burn”. Since owning a same sex relationship it is her life lived she upholds as truth, idealizing God as primarily compassion and grace. Is this any different than Joel Osteen, or others who represent one side of the character of the God they prefer? Or of the so-called counseling psychology priesthood which holds that feelings=meaning?
Jennifer would pass expectations for honesty in our age of relevancy, but, does her kind of grace ignore aspects of the transaction between the Spirit of Christ and a believer in accepting the grace of Atonement, or is it grace to feel feelings and not deny the “honesty” involved. So, has honesty replaced holiness as to authenticity in the “connections” of life in the flesh? There is no opportunity for the spirit to divide the old self from the new if the self and its being is the primary candidate for the newly conjectured “grace”, embraced without the basis of God’s truth.
Contrast the above with the spirit of adoption which Paul conceptualizes and acknowledges as fact….the orientation to that identity contrasts with going with all that self can experience and connect with. This is perhaps our era’s greatest deception, which may lead to the eventual seige of a Jerusalem (which Yeshua defends and transforms by his coming) that eventually just does not get the importance of relevancy in our day.
Jennifer’s Christianity would say that those of Jihad too deserve to live honestly about their feelings and live purpose as well.
er, livewired purpose as well.
Jabez,
Good and relevant questions!
I’m for loving everyone, too, as Jesus made it clear we are to.
HOWEVER, loving someone does not mean always approving or supporting everything they say or do.
I’m glad the Line of Fire team is holding the line firmly for God’s standards of conduct. It’s not easy to hold firm against the swelling tide of public opinion, but God’s word is clear. He condemns the practice of homosexuality, as well as all forms of sexual immorality.
Though we have to hold firm for God’s standards, we are charged to love our brothers and sisters through their transgressions; and this takes plenty of patience and consistent kindness. While a true friend will risk your displeasure in order to point out a grave error, it’s important that this be done firmly, yet compassionately; otherwise, the one pointing out the error can be guilty of misrepresenting God’s love, to the hurt of the sinner.
” Pop Christianity ” thats a perfect term you mentioned Michael for the ” please dont you dare take away my cotton candy Jesus ” type of faith we see passing 4 the real thing these days. Western culture especially is in very very deep moral trouble…
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter………..
Well stated, Ruth. Firm and fair, for sure.
satan is the author of confusion its his best card. hes using it against the american sheeple quite successfully by appealing to their pride hook line and sinker…
I saw most of the interview on t.v. A couple of things: Ms. Knapp is selective in submitting to authority. It is one thing to disagree on disputable matters, but this is very clearly laid out in Scripture. I found it amusing that Larry King called the Pastor Botsford a sinner because he said he ate shellfish. I did think that Botsford could have responded better than to say that God “changed His mind” about dietary laws. For the most part I think Botsford did an excellent job and was very gracious and loving.
I only listened to a bit of this as it took so long to download. It seemed to me that Jennifer was not clear on much, but seemed to be saying that she was happy with her life as it is now.
There are Christians and then there are Christians just as there
can be teachers and then there are teachers, or prophets and then there are prophets, or straight edges, and then there are straight edges, or dollar bills , and then there are dollar bills.
Two dollar bills might say “Legal Tender” but both might not be so.
There was a character in the book “The Pilgrim’s Progress” that got all the way to the gate of Celestial City, but as he was at the gate, two Shining Ones took him to an opening in the side of a hill and he was throne into hell itself.
His name was Ignorance and he did not understand justification.
He wasn’t clear on anything when Christian talked to him.
I always wonder what kind of music did this artist do. Was it really worship music that was truly worship to God? Anyone with a singing voice can sing “How Great Thou Art”, but when it comes to the part about “My Saviour God, to Thee..” , it could be untrue.
I wonder if she wrote any of her music and what the words were.
Too often I’ve listened to what is called worship music that is more worship of self than it is worship to God, as if we don’t know what we worship.
Have you ever taken the words and put them on one side of a vertical line or the other and found out who got more of the worship, self, or God? I don’t think real worship begins until God gets over 50%.
If we worship God we can have faith in God…. If it’s not just in word only. If it’s not the cross, it’s not really Christianity. In this world it’s too easy to forget what we really are like.
She said “the gods” not God.
Rebecca,
Yes she did. You’re absolutely correct. I’m just not sure if it was intended, or a Freudian slip, or a total slip of the tongue. Enough was said, however, to make me deeply question what this young woman means by “Christianity.”
I listened to the complete show. I find that I agree with “things” said by both of the pastors. As I look at the scriptures I see that God does call sin sin. There is a big difference however of commiting sin or falling short and “practicing sin” and making excuses for it instead of seeing that it is wrong in God’s sight. I fall short every day, but I try not to make a “practice ” of them….I had many things that I was doing wrong when I first came to the LORD, and He did not ask me to do away with all of them before we could have a relationship. During the course of our relationship He has pointed out many things to me, one by one. Some of them we have had to work on harder and longer than others and I believe that is what Pastor Haggard is talking about. Does God wait until we are all cleaned up to except us? If that is the case then we all are in big trouble. Again…Jesus did say to the woman caught in adultry, go and sin no more..He was talking about the sin of adultry but I am quite sure that she had many other things to work through besides just that. If Jennifer truely continues to study God’s word with people who are not afraid to call sin sin and she continues to desire a true relationship with God I am sure that sooner or later the Holy Spirit will direct her and convict her…but she will need Christian friends to direct her and pray with her and to pray for her along the way.
One other issue I saw was that the world is sooooooo mixed up about not judging….having dicscernment in seeing good fruit and bad fruit is not judgment against that person. We as the body are suppose to be discerning. How else would we know what is good and Godly or what is not good and needs to change?
The issue of choice kept coming up. Many people say that they are born homosexual. This may or may not be true scientifically, but it is no different than me being born with a tendency to lie, or someone being born with a tendency to rebel. We are all born into sin….so who cares if you are born that way….that is the beauty of Christianity…we are to be born again. We are to leave behind the sin we were born into and be born of a new nature that turns from sin.
The argument is not if homosexuality is a choice, but rather is being a Christian a choice. We would all say that it is…..we choose to follow Christ. If we choose to follow anything opposite of Christ, then we are not choosing Christianity…….
The issue is not if people are born gay, but if they are following Christ….We are to take up our cross and follow Him….where did He go when he took up His cross? To His death, so when we follow Him we are heading to death……The death of every sin that we are born into and we get to take part in the power of His resurrection….the resurrection of His life in us…..
Jennifer stated “It’s not on my agenda to convert the world to a religion, but to convert the world to compassion and grace. I’ve experienced that in my life through Christianity.
“Inside” isn’t about the church….If there’s any anger or frustration on this record [her new one called non religious], it’s the desperation to hold onto what is honest and true, and let the rest of it just burn”. Since owning a same sex relationship it is her life lived she upholds as truth, idealizing God as primarily compassion and grace. Is this any different than Joel Osteen, or others who represent one side of the character of the God they prefer? Or of the so-called counseling psychology priesthood which holds that feelings=meaning?
Jennifer would pass expectations for honesty in our age of relevancy, but, does her kind of grace ignore aspects of the transaction between the Spirit of Christ and a believer in accepting the grace of Atonement, or is it grace to feel feelings and not deny the “honesty” involved. So, has honesty replaced holiness as to authenticity in the “connections” of life in the flesh? There is no opportunity for the spirit to divide the old self from the new if the self and its being is the primary candidate for the newly conjectured “grace”, embraced without the basis of God’s truth.
Contrast the above with the spirit of adoption which Paul conceptualizes and acknowledges as fact….the orientation to that identity contrasts with going with all that self can experience and connect with. This is perhaps our era’s greatest deception, which may lead to the eventual seige of a Jerusalem (which Yeshua defends and transforms by his coming) that eventually just does not get the importance of relevancy in our day.
Jennifer’s Christianity would say that those of Jihad too deserve to live honestly about their feelings and live purpose as well.
er, livewired purpose as well.
Jabez,
Good and relevant questions!
I’m for loving everyone, too, as Jesus made it clear we are to.
HOWEVER, loving someone does not mean always approving or supporting everything they say or do.
I’m glad the Line of Fire team is holding the line firmly for God’s standards of conduct. It’s not easy to hold firm against the swelling tide of public opinion, but God’s word is clear. He condemns the practice of homosexuality, as well as all forms of sexual immorality.
Though we have to hold firm for God’s standards, we are charged to love our brothers and sisters through their transgressions; and this takes plenty of patience and consistent kindness. While a true friend will risk your displeasure in order to point out a grave error, it’s important that this be done firmly, yet compassionately; otherwise, the one pointing out the error can be guilty of misrepresenting God’s love, to the hurt of the sinner.
” Pop Christianity ” thats a perfect term you mentioned Michael for the ” please dont you dare take away my cotton candy Jesus ” type of faith we see passing 4 the real thing these days.
Western culture especially is in very very deep moral trouble…
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter………..
Well stated, Ruth. Firm and fair, for sure.
satan is the author of confusion its his best card. hes using it against the american sheeple quite successfully by appealing to their pride hook line and sinker…
great post as usual!
Heres an article worth checking out concerning this subject
http://www.outofur.com/archives/2006/01/brian_mclaren_o_2.html
I saw most of the interview on t.v. A couple of things: Ms. Knapp is selective in submitting to authority. It is one thing to disagree on disputable matters, but this is very clearly laid out in Scripture.
I found it amusing that Larry King called the Pastor Botsford a sinner because he said he ate shellfish. I did think that Botsford could have responded better than to say that God “changed His mind” about dietary laws. For the most part I think Botsford did an excellent job and was very gracious and loving.