52 Comments
  1. Keep me in prayer I am a Jewish man the Lord call me out and start some new and help them undrestand the Jewishness of tyhe bible,

  2. Dr. Brown,

    God bless you.

    I would like to hear a debate between you and Bill Maher. I think that Mr. Maher would decline such an invitation as you would pose a real challenge to his “beliefs” and in my opinion, challenge is something that Mr. Maher has not faced since releasing his movie “religulous”. I have not seen the movie in full however I seen clips of film which were obviously slanted and portrayed religion in a negative manner in order to try and justify Mr. Maher’s sinful lifestyle.

    I hope such a debate can be arranged however Mr. Maher does not want to be challenged. All we can do is pray for him.

    God Bless you Sir,

    Respectfully,

    Kenneth Sullivan

    Bupyong, Republic of Korea

  3. Also, just to add something interesting from Isaiah 6 (and I am sure most who read this will have already known this), if you go to John 12 we see that John teaches that Christ was the One seated on the throne, he describes Christ as the LORD (YHWH)!

    John 12:37-41

    But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

    “ Lord, who has believed our report?
    And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?”

    Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
    “ He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
    Lest they should see with their eyes,
    Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
    So that I should heal them.”

    These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

    The last line I quoted is the key in determining that John was saying it was Christ who Isaiah saw.

  4. Loris,

    One more point: Someone could argue against this position that the “glory” Isaiah saw pointed to the Isaiah 53 passage, but I do agree with your reading of the text, as many others do as well.

  5. Dr. Brown,

    I can understand how some people might argue that John is talking about Isaiah 53. But the problem is, the Suffering Servant (Christ) of Isaiah 53 obviously wasn’t revealed yet. And nowhere does the text (Isaiah 53) imply that Isaiah saw the ”arm of the LORD”, as Isaiah 6 clearly states that Isaiah saw the LORD.

    I’m sure you can further elaborate why it probably is NOT referring to Isaiah 53 🙂

    God bless you brother.

  6. I am learning the greek just to read the book of John in greek (though I’m sure I could use the greek to read whatever else in the New Testament, too) but I just learned the N.T. was written in ALL CAPS with NO SPACING and NO DIACRITICAL OR PUNCTUATION MARKINGS.
    HOW DO WE KNOW AT ALL THAT OUR NEW TESTAMENTS ARE WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE!???
    We have an english translation -> of a greek “circus” translation -> of the original greek… this is ridiculous…

  7. On that note — Greg’s — do you think that possibly children were born in the Garden of Eden? God said, “…your pain in childbirth will be multiplied…” unless she’d had children, she/they wouldn’t know what He was talking about. Could they possibly have had daughters? Sons? I am interested in knowing this – not that it is necessary.

  8. I want to ask Dr Brown about the divine council doctrine proposed by Hebrew Scholar Dr Mike Heiser.

    This doctrine has far reaching ramification from Gen 6 to Deut 32:8 having the Sons of God put in ruler-ship over the nations the site is http://www.divinecouncil.com

    will you take some time to discuss this please 🙂

    It can give answers to tricky questions such as “Nephilim” “false gods” and the war that is going on physically and spiritually.

  9. Dr.Brown,sorry for chipping in a little prematurely-with respect to our deal,although you should not worry because I will be reading your books in the very near future. However I think that Greg got his idea of twins from the following question which is:How did the world as we know it come about if the verse describes that Adam had 2 children and then shortly thereafter in verse 17 kayin gets married. So the million dollar question is who on earth did he marry? There was nobody else alive at that point! The answer is;the oral torah tradition tells us that a twin was born with each of the sons. So again without oral torah,we would never understand the plain meaning of the text,because accordingly the world could not have continued. So that might be where Greg got the idea of twins from.

  10. zvi,
    sons were always more important – very few women are mentioned in lineages – it only goes to reason that daughters were not mentioned and are UNDERSTOOD as being born. It is probably “adding to” God’s Words to say they both had twins born with them – and the reason? so as to have a “logical” answer your question (being asked by others).

  11. Hi Dr. Brown,

    Adam Clarke among others believed this. I think it has to do with the Hebrew of Genesis 4:2 saying that Eve “continuing to give birth…”

    I have other reasons to suspect his, though I have little scriptural evidence right now.

    However, I’m certainly not sold one way or the other.

    God Bless,
    Greg

  12. Hi Greg,

    The more you write it is evident that you are referring to the twin girl that was born to the 2 boys as the words “continuing to give birth” is precisely where the oral torah derives this idea from-so it is most likely that this is where the idea came from.

  13. Zvi, there is another tradition that says that Adam and Hava were not the only people YHWH created in the beginning, but their story is told to us in the Tanach as a part of history. Maybe they were the only people in the Garden of Eden. This tradition makes more sense to me. Consider the fact that there are two creation stories in Genesis – one where the human race is created and the other one where only Adam and Hava are created. Or do you have a reason for the twin-theory besides the fact that some rabbis said it?

  14. Erica,

    Any tradition cannot go against the torah to say that there were others alive would be in direct cotrast to the verse that states that Chava was the mother of all humanity in chapter 3:20,so while it would make sense to you-g-d says differently.

  15. Zvi, it says in Genesis 3:20

    “The man called his wife Havah, because she was the mother of all living.”

    Not all humans, but all living. That is a difference.

  16. The point is that not all humans are spiritually alive!! Nothing false about that. Just because the rabbi didn’t say it does not prove that there is no other level to this.

  17. I agree with Zvi, that Eve is the mother of all humanity. There is nothing to indicate “spiritually alive” talk ,based on the plain reading of the text. Also, whether or not Cain and Abel were twins, I don’t think it matters. One could have been minutes older than the other, or years older, it just doesn’t matter.

  18. No need for the Talmud’s take on the issue.

    You really only need to go to Genesis 5:4 which states ”the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had SONS AND DAUGHTERS.”

    There is only 1 creation account and it is explained with different details 3 times.

  19. I know that my way of thinking is quite un-orthodox, but one question: Why is Yeshua in the New Testament called the “second Adam”? The first Adam failed in his redeeming role, that’s why the second Adam had to come.

  20. Loris

    The talmudic account is absolutely needed because those sons and daughters were born after shes was in verse 4 plus at least 130 years later! So there were additional sons and daughters born much later-no contradiction at all.

  21. Erika,
    The first Adam never had a redeeming role. There was nothing for him to redeem, seeing that there was no sin in the world before him. Neither did he have the capability to redeem anything as a man. Yeshua was indeed called the second Adam, who was to redeem the fellowship between God and man, which the first Adam divided by his disobedience to God. Adam was sinless at birth, so this is why Yeshua can be called the second Adam. Yeshua however does have the power to redeem since he IS God in the flesh.

  22. Michael,

    in Genesis 2:15 we read:

    “YHWH Elohim took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.”

    So we see that there was some stuff to redeem.

  23. Zvi,

    I am sorry, but I am not understanding what you are trying to say, can you please reword it? Thanks.

    Just to add something to my post, one way to look at it is like with many of the genealogies in the Bible and how at times they are not complete but they only include the names of the more important people. It is also the same way with Genesis 5:4, just because it doesn’t mention these daughters until the 5th chapter, doesn’t mean they didn’t at the time Cain took for himself a wife.

    Plus, Genesis is not always chronological and again, I believe this is the same case with the way Genesis 4:16-18 is written……..it doesn’t give any indication of how long Cain live in the land of Nod either.

  24. Just to clarify what I said above.

    Genesis doesn’t give any indication of how long Cain lived in the land of Nod before he knew his wife. It could have been 10 years, or 300 years, but again, Genesis 5:4 is sufficient to explain how Cain procreated, there is no need for the Talmudic tradition.

  25. Loris,the verse later says that “shes” was born in verse 3. This birth of shes was 130 years after the first boys. Then in the next verse it says that he gave birth to boys and girls,so these girls were born much AT LEAST 130 years after the fist 2 boys.

  26. Well, if you only look at chapter five of Genesis, then Seth was the first son of Adam. My point was a different one though.

  27. Zvi,

    I apologize but I am still not understanding what you mean, what is this ”shes”, and why is it so significant?

    Please read my comment at 4:47 and 4:51 and tell me if it addresses what you are saying or not.

  28. Erica,

    Adam was not put in the garden to redeem any thing. He was put there to tend to it. This was his service to his maker and I guess it may be called priestly in the sense of worship through service but there was nothing to redeem. Death hadn’t come into the world and so he could not redeem any thing. And once death did come into the world he (Adam) was the one in need of redemption. Adam was just a man like any of us. The difference is Adam had no physical father, his father was God. Which brings me to another point, The Lord Jesus being called the Son of God is to do with his Messianic identity in as much as Him being called the Son of Man is to do with his Messianic identity.

    ****

    No where in the tanakh do we see a Divine Being (pre-incarnate) being called The Son of God. No the Messenger of YHWH (The Word of YHWH [1 samuel 3:7 and 10] also known as The Messenger of the Presence in Isaiah 63:9 ) was simply refered to as YHWH. So clearly God is trinitarian, however The title Son of God relates to the Davidic promise that God would regard David’s heir as his own as well as the fact that to be The Redeemer the Messiah had to be Divine and yet human. This meant that his flesh had to be Holy and so he had to be conceived by the Holy Spirit which makes him the Son of God (sort of like Adam) and even more than this…hence the Angel’s remarks to Mary

    And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David………..And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy- the Son of God. [from Luke 1]

    Clearly Jesus being called the Son of God is to do with his messianic identity and the nature of his conception. One could even add the twist that the word used in some of the gospels ” only begotten” can be understood as “unique Son” in the sense that out of God’s many son’s, The Messiah is unique because He is God (YHWY-The Messenger of YHWH/ LOGOS or Word) and in taking human flesh conceived through the Spirit he has also become a Son. This is completely plausable as in Hebrews 11, Isaac is called Abraham’s only begotten even though he had numerous other sons and so the context may very well determine the meaning of the word “monogenes” which usually means only begotten in the literal sense of the word.

    I’m convinced it was The pre-incarnate Christ that Moses may have spoken to on Mt. Sinai and that the elders of Israel and Aaron saw when they shared the covenant meal with God. He is also the God that Abraham prepared a meal for in Genesis 18, that Hagar spoke to when in thirst, that lead and protected Jacob in his reference to God being the Angel who was with Him. He is the One who appeared to Israel in Judges 2, who spoke with Samson’s parents as well as to Gideon! He is the One who spoke to Zechariah and of whom Zechariah prophesied about in Zechariah 12! He is from everlasting as the prophets said of Him.

    In regards to there having been another woman made before Eve. That is not scriptural. Eve is the mother of all humankind and clearly God says He saw that the Man was ALONE. For him to be ALONE means there were no other human beings, none at all besides Adam. So Genesis’ account of the creation of mankind comes from various angles with different depths of detail. General chronology of creation as well as in depth account of man’s creation and then the necessity for a woman to be made for him.

  29. Actually the only times we see the scriptures speaking of sons of God it is usually angels as is the case in Job. However in Psalm 1 and parts of Isaiah a Son of God who is Divine is prophesied about-the is the Messiah. The God-man who was to come into the world and has come and shall return soon.

  30. Loris,”sheth” was born in verse 25chapter 4 he was instead of kayin-g-d replaced kayin with shes. So sheth was the first child after kain and hevel,and in 5:3 it was 130 years later,and at that point adam bore sons and daughters as we see in verse 4. So at that point kayin was dead. So who did kayin marry? It must have been his twin as the rabbis say.

  31. Sorry,last post was a mistake that I must correct. Hevel was killed not kayin. However the boys and girls that were born to Adam were at lest 130 years later as the verse that I quoted said.

  32. Zvi,

    Okay, I understand what you are saying now (or at least I think I do), but what I already posted addresses what you are saying, as I said before, Genesis is not always in chronological order, and again, I believe this is the same case we have here……Genesis doesn’t give any indication of how long Cain lived in the land of Nod before he knew his wife. But with what you have brought up it appears it would have been at least 130 years.

  33. Loris,that was my point since he was at least 130 years older than her it would probably be more likely that he married somone his own age.

  34. Still though, the language of verses 3 and 4 are NOT very clear. It doesn’t necessarily say that the ”sons and daughters” were born after Adam begot Seth, it just mentions them in passing after it tells us how long Adam lived for.

    Also, we don’t know how old Adam was when he had Cain. Who’s to say Adam wasn’t, say, 120 years old when he begot Cain?

  35. Loris,

    If Adam would have had children before seth,then their name would have been seth because the reason for the name was as the verse states was “because g-d gave me different offspring instead of hevel, so the verse is quite clear that shes was the next child to be born and that occured 130 years later. As to your second point,take a look at the verse in chapter 5:1 These are the children of Adam in the DAY the g-d created Adam he made him in other words Adam gave bith to his child the very day that he was created.

  36. Psalm 90:4

    ” For a thousand years in your sight are just like yesterday when it is past, like a watch in the night.”

  37. Genesis 2:17

    “but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it; for IN THE DAY that you eat of it you will surely die.”

    That really happened – they died within the first thousand years from that moment on.

    Seven days this world will last, and right now we are living in the end of the sixth day – but according to the The Astronomically and Agriculturally Corrected Biblical Hebrew Calendar we are right now living in the beginning of the seventh day already – the eve of the Millennial Kingdom (biblical days always begin in the evening). Midnight is ahead. See the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13).

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