Dr. Brown Interacts with a Palestinian Christian and Sets the Record Straight about Saul Becoming Paul

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2. We are all cursed without Christ, the Jewish people included. There are no exceptions based upon race. The Jews, however, are also in a state of desolation for their rejection of Christ and for the crime of killing him, which falls upon them corporately. But they can be saved and regathered when they accept the Lord, the God of their forefathers. Their call to salvation has not been revoked, for their calling is by its nature irrevocable. An individual Jewish man or woman can only be chosen of God when he or she accepts the Messiah, for to be chosen is to be bound for Heaven, having been washed in the blood of the Lamb.

   Christianity 101, folks.

3. Jug,

   You wrote:
   “The Jews, however, are also in a state of desolation for their rejection of Christ and for the crime of killing him, which falls upon them corporately.”

   There is no such thing as the crime of killing Messiah. He laid down His life and no one killed him. Our sin necessitated His death so we are just as guilty as the ones that shouted “Crucify Him.” And for those that crucified Him Messiah said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

   Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
   18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

   Lu 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

   There is no such thing as a punishment for the crime of killing Messiah falling on the Jewish people corporately through the centuries. There are many things that cultures and subcultures bring upon themselves because of the false teachings and ideas that permeate those cultures. There are many atrocities perpetrated upon groups of people by other groups of people that believe lies like these.

   It is a lie that much of Christianity has believed that the Jews deserve desolation and punishment for supposedly killing Messiah. Much of the fault lies not with the Jews, but with the false doctrine and prejudice in the Church.

   Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

   Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

   Our punishment, as well as the Jew’s punishment, fell upon Messiah and He gladly took it in hopes of saving us all. It pleased the Father Kill His Son for our sakes. So who killed Messiah? Who is responsible? Certainly not the Jews, but the one who chose them to be a special people for Himself.

   Biblical Christianity 101 please.

   Shalom

4. Bo,

   Peter said to the Jews, “I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.” Even though they did so in ignorance, the Jews are the ones who “acted.” In several places, the Bible affirms that the Jews specifically killed Christ. The Bible also affirms that this was according to the design and foreknowledge of the Father. Obviously, the Messiah laid down his life. It was not taken from him. We know this. However, the Bible still speaks of the culpability of the Jewish people. (To whom much is given, much is expected, and so on.) Their culpability is such that it leaves them in a state of desolation, not eternal condemnation without the possibility of repentance, as I explained quite clearly.

   Christ says to the Jews, “And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.”

   Christ says to Pilate, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

   The Jews say, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

   Peace

5. Jug and Bo,

   This is from a Traditionalist Catholic source, the SSPX, a priestly society that is currently in a state of partial-separation from Rome due to their rejection of the reforms of Vatican II. I would be interested to hear your take, and Dr. Brown’s, for that matter.

   This very clearly articulates the position of historic Roman Catholicism:

   “The Jews were consequently directly responsible for the crucifixion. Deicide is the name given to the crime of killing the person who is God, namely the Son of God in His human nature. It is those persons who brought about the crucifixion who are guilty of deicide, namely the Jews.

   St. Matthew’s Gospel states very clearly, not only that Pilate considered Jesus innocent of the accusations made against him, but also that the whole people of the Jews took the responsibility of his murder upon their own heads. Indeed, to Pilate’s statement: “I am innocent of the blood of this just man; look you to it,” the response is immediate: “And the whole people answering, said: His blood be upon us and upon our children.” (Mt. 27:24, 25) The Gospel teaches us, therefore, that the Jewish race brought upon themselves the curse that followed the crime of deicide.

   However, in what does that curse consist. Surely it cannot be that there is a collective guilt of the Jewish race for the sin of deicide. For only those individuals are responsible for the sin who knowingly and willingly brought it about. Jews of today are manifestly not responsible for that sin. The curse is of a different nature, and corresponds to the greatness of the vocation of the Jewish people as a preparation for the Messias, to the superiority of their election, which makes them first in the order of grace. Just as the true Israelites, who accept the Messias, are the first to receive “glory, honor and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek” (Rm. 2:10), so also are the first to receive the punishment of their refusal of the Messias: “Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek” (Rm. 2:9). The curse is then the punishment for the hardhearted rebelliousness of a people that has refused the time of its visitation, that has refused to convert and to live a moral, spiritual life, directed towards heaven. This curse is the punishment of blindness to the things of God and eternity, of deafness to the call of conscience and to the love of good and hatred of evil which is the basis of all moral life, of spiritual paralysis, of total preoccupation with an earthly kingdom. It is this that sets them as a people in entire opposition with the Catholic Church and its supernatural plan for the salvation of souls. Fr. Denis Fahey in The Kingship of Christ and Organized Naturalism explains this radical opposition. He describes “the Naturalism of the Jewish Nation” and the “age-long struggle of the Jewish Nation against the supernatural life of the Mystical Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ” (p. 42) He goes on to explain that “we must distinguish accurately between opposition to the domination of Jewish Naturalism in society and hostility to the Jews as a race” which latter form of opposition “is what is designated by the term, ‘Antisemitism,’ and has been more than once condemned by the Church. The former opposition is incumbent on every Catholic and on every true lover of his native land.””

   Source: Featured in the Q&A section of the March 2004 issue of “The Angelus.”

6. You guys are talking antisemitism. It is at the roots of the Roman Catholic Mystery Babylon harlot system and it has been passed down to the daughters of the great Mother of harlots.

   Jug,

   How about quoting chapter and verse that says what you assert. The verses I quoted show your idea to be false.

   Lulu,

   Not all the Jews consented to Messiah’s death and therefore they are not culpable as a nation. The Jewish leaders that pressed the issue and unfairly “tried” and condemned Messiah are guilty. The vineyard was taken from the scribes, Pharisees, and chief priests and given to the Apostles…that were also Jews. (Mat 21:43)

   2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

   Eze 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father’s sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
   15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour’s wife,
   16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
   17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
   18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
   19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
   20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

   A man cannot pass blood guiltiness to his children. And no man can pass on innocence to his children either. There is no such crime a deicide. No one can kill YHWH. He lays down his life.

   Shalom

7. Jug,

   Here is one of your quotes in context:

   Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
   30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
   31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
   32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
   33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
   34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
   35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
   36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

   That generation had the judgment fall upon them. He was speaking to the scribes and Pharisees…not to the Jewish nation as whole.

   Who turned Messiah over to Pilot? The Jewish religions leaders, not the whole nation.

   Shalom

8. Bo,

   There were always two Israels, two Jewish peoples: the faithful Remnant and the apostates. To the apostates Christ pronounced condemnation. These were the people who conspired to have the Lord crucified, just as they conspired against and killed all the other prophets who prepared for his coming. These people today are the Synagogue. The same pharisees live on in the modern Jews who reject the Messiah. The ‘curse’ is not one of blood but of identity, the identity of those who reject God. The faithful Remnant of righteous Jews did not kill Christ, nor did they kill the prophets. They became the foundation of the Church and the Church exists to this day, made up of the Jews who follow Christ and the Gentiles who have been grafted in to the believing Israelites.

9. Jug, call in and get your opinions vetted.

10. Bo,

    The above quotation that I cited clearly repudiates anti-Semitism. It is one thing to reject the Jews’ rebellion against God and His Church, their anti-Christ ideologies, political movements, and activities, and something else entirely to despise the Jewish people out of irrational cultural prejudice, to hate them as a people, and to not pray for their salvation, which God desires. As Christians, we pray that the Jews turn from lawlessness and accept Jesus. All Christians and all patriots must reject Jewish anarchy, and we as Christians must love the Jews themselves enough to help them out of their error.

11. We can disagree on small things like secret rapture which I don’t hold to but this we can’t .Honoring the TRINITY Obaying GOD through Christ Jeus . http://www.jvim.com/

12. Lulu, what do you mean by “Jewish anarchy”? Also, do you recognize how much of what you say (negatively) about Jewish people can be said about Christians worldwide?

13. Lucy, I mean Lulu, you got some splainin’ to do.

    Shalom

14. I would define Jewish anarchy as the Jewish people’s rejection of Jesus Christ manifesting in all facets of Jewish life and sociocultural expressions, and the tendency of the Jews to develop and encourage subversive, revolutionary, and counter-Christian political ideologies, like Marxism, etc. This worldview is a yoke from which the Jewish people need to be freed, by the grace of God.

15. Lulu do you remember that there is only two types of People in this world saved and unsaved in Christ not in Christ . Those who pray in and through Christ Jesus .Those who choose to pray to GOD or though Pepole this Leads to hell . So to claim Religous superiority because of a gift given that can’t be earned is as bad as the Pharisees or worst. We are supposed to know better after the cross of Christ if we are saved.

16. Lulu,

    Thanks for your explanation, a significant part of which is overstated and/or inaccurate.

17. It may be politically incorrect, or sound anti-Semitic, but we should not censor ourselves when it comes to observing and reporting on social trends.

18. Both of these men in my opinion are wrong? First by attempting to find some consonance between the gospel and the political circumstances are blatantly unbiblical!While we can use the principles of the gospel to have a political opinion or influence we must also recognize that God moves in two ways in the world. One is His providence over the nations as He directs the affairs of men to fulfill His salvation purpose in His Son Jesus our Lord? The second is His working among His people to build His Assembly through their labor and effort to be witnesses to the world for the grace and mercy that is found in Jesus our Lord. In other words we have a commission to be the agents to spread the gospel and establish a kingdom of believers who are in the world, among the nations, but are not of the world. The nation we reside in is our first mission field and we should be concerned about being faithful disciples and followers of the Savior in the eyes of those around us. We are not a political entity! Even Paul told Timothy that any man who wars in this life for the truth does not make the concerns of this world his objective? God in His providence has placed us in any nation to be the light to those in darkness not to be taken up with the political concerns of the times. There is no reason why Palestinians cannot be solid and sound believers under the existing political circumstances without venturing into politics? If God has ordained that the state of Israel should be right where they are then they should accept that and be about the gospel both to Jews and to their fellow Palestinians and not worry about the worldly affairs surrounding the Middle East or the area where they have been called to serve the Lord for those who are truly saved? The New Testament has no examples of political activity or discourse among the redeemed people of God? Paul who was called to go to Rome never made any evil in society a political concern? He well understood that his call was to Preach Christ and Him crucified? Hence his admonition to Timothy! When Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers He was not referring to political activity and a peace that does not bring the Prince of Peace into the hearts of those called to salvation! There is a principle there that can be used to some extent over political issues but never to the extent of rendering the term from its gospel priority and significance! When a slave under the Roman rule was saved he was commanded to use his new position in Christ to be a witness to the power that delivered him from death and eternal punishment as they were now set free by the power of the gospel? They were not called to make the abolition of slavery a calling? Rather they were admonished to live under the conditions and be a witness for Christ their Lord? I can multiply passages and principles to show that we are not a political people who fight for rights as much as we serve the Lord in His Assembly and other gospel ministries.
    So all of this political talk about Israel and the Palestinians is outside off our primary call and responsibility. On point both men have drifted away from the word of God. Not that they cannot have a discussion about this to some degree but that organizing meetings and conferences are beyond the pale of who and what we are as the Children of God by faith in Jesus.
    The Palestinian Brother is wrong in that not only has he become involved in something that he is not called to do but that he associates with unbelievers who not only spurn our Lord but hold to a false faith, namely Islam? We are told to separate our selves from unbelievers? Be not equally yoked together goes beyond marital relationships. Islam is one of the most sinister religions on earth and is one that we must address with an urgency that goes beyond politics and historical rivalries and controversies? Paul could have addressed many evils and injustices within the Roman empire but he never did? And he went before Kings and Rulers? This is the example not only to ministers but all of the Saints of God in Christ?
    From the purely political side of this even though I don’t believe that a Jewish state should have been created in the first place and that no Arab or dweller in the land at the time of partition should have been forced to live under a Jewish state nevertheless this is what God in His wisdom and governance determined to be the case and a believer though he may have the right to express their approval or disapproval nevertheless should have been willing to live under the divine will and take up the cause of Christ no matter who the land had been given to? It must be observed that even if a Jewish state was not established and the proposal was for a state that consisted of both Arabs and Jews living together under a Palestinian designation, in other words it would have been a non ethnic arrangement where both parties and the many other nations who resided there before 1948 would have created a pluralistic society similar to the US. I believe this would have been fair except for that stubborn fact that Arabs did not want a mass immigration of Jews coming from the USSR or Europe even after the holocaust to end up in this region and create a multi-national state? They were vehement in resisting Jewish migration and with the apathy and indifference of the world including America the argument for a Jewish state was hard to ignore since no one Arab or otherwise offered another possibility? So The Palestinian Brother seems to ignore those incontrovertible facts as to why a Jewish state seemed to be the only viable alternative? Also that even after the 48 partition it was the Arabs who began militaristic action against the Jews not the other way about? After the 1967 assault instigated and conducted by the Arab nations it was only logical that Israel was forced into taking a more aggressive position now that the Arabs could not be trusted and that they really wanted the final destruction of the Jews after all? All of the grievances they have used were intended to hide this Jewish hatred that most of them feel even if they are not willing to engage in violence? Most Muslims and Arabs who want peace really harbor resentment for the Jewish state? They just recognized that the Jews will not give in and deal with the issues very cautiously and skeptically due to this undeniable history! He seemed to by pass all of this as the main reason why the problems persist? Nor did he ever really address the Islamic element and the the fact that the PLA cannot be trusted? Arafat was a liar and devious individual who did not want peace? Even today you cannot trust Abbas either? And you will never hear the Palestinians denounce and commit themselves to the prosecution of Islamic terror groups who openly express their hatred and intent to obliterate Israel? How can there ever be peace as long as this attitude exists? The Jews have every right to deal with the Palestinians with suspicion and distrust?
    Once you put all of this into proper prospective and follow the historical development you have to side mostly with Israel. Now that is my opinion on the present situation but that is as far as I believe I can go with a good conscience insofar as my political thought are concerned? What I think of as being the ultimate concern is how the gospel will fare in Israel and among the Palestinians to see the power of the gospel take root in the lives of the people in this pace? As I said that should be our main ambition and heart desire. Let the hand of God who will do as He wills among men deal regarding the politics of the ungodly? Then we will be living out the tenets of the gospel and the great commission.
    Where I think Michael Brown goes wrong, although I believe he is following the gospel mandate politically speaking far more than the Palestinian Brother is on this issue, since his understanding is based on his views of the providence of God in what he believes is prophecy and not mere social and political passion? So my view is that he is wrong on the prophetic strain in that I don’t believe that God has a special plan for Israel in the future? Israel came back as a nation to demonstrate that they are still hard of heat against their messiah as they were in the first century? And that there appearance at this juncture of history is to show that we are at the end of time and that our Lord Jesus is gathering the final remnants of those who I call thee elect who are saved from the once elect,national only, nation? The promises to the Fathers and the warning to the gentiles that there will always be a chosen remnant who are of the seed of Abraham and who number among the elect taken from every nation is being fulfilled as we draw near to the end as the Lord is about to be revealed in flaming fire to use the imagery of Paul in Thessalonians as the final day of judgment approaches. In other words God reestablished the nation of Israel because he is about to conclude His eternal purpose of not only saving the remnant of Abraham’s seed but all those who were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world. He simply has many others yet to be saved in this final age of redemption demonstrating His faithfulness to that once privileged people whose national standing came to and end when Jesus pronounced in Matthew that the house of Israel was to be left desolate! This is the whole point and gist of Pauls words in Romans 9-11. The nation is dead but as touching the elect they are beloved for the Fathers sake? And the Fathers were all chosen and saved bu God and His eternal purpose and not their own choosing. Jesus said plainly to His Apostles that He choose them they did not chose Him? In John 17 Jesus prays for those given to Him by the Father? He prayed not for the world. The context is unmistakable there! As the early Assembly was made up of all Jews and remained a predominantly a Jewish Assembly so to God has a goodly number of Jews to save as He gathers His elect from around the world. This gospel must first be preached to all nations then come the end said our Lord. The gospel is reaching people everywhere around the world today. When this is accomplished all of the ages will have culminated in the salvation of all God chosen.
    Another feature I believe is contained in the reestablishment of Israel though they are as wicked a nation as any other and will be judged the same is that as the nature of the gospel and the appearance and doctrine of our Lord was intended to be stumbling block and an offense so is this nation appearing at the end of time? In what I believe is the false doctrines of what is dispensationalism or premilleniaism, namely that God has some great spiritual restoration for the Jews as a nation once again and Jesus will return and will rule and reign on earth through Israel showing to the Jews alive that He was the Messiah that the nation had rejected at Hid first advent and throughout the ages and they will see Him in the flesh and turn to Him as He ushers in a thousand years of peace among all nations and save I guess most people. Some even go so far as to say that the Temple with its blood sacrifices will be built and Jesus will show by undeniable demonstrations that He is the fulfillment of those sacrifices and the words of the Prophets? This eschatological prospective is deluding multitudes who show that they want to see Jesus in the flesh and spend more time on this earth than they would in the new heavens where true and pure righteousness dwells only as Peter says? I guess many want more time in this world and worldly pleasure? Death does not end according to Revelation until this earth is gone as Pete also says 2 Peter 3:8-12. So why would anyone want to live longer here in this sin cursed world where pain and death will still occur? When the Bible tells us that we have a world to look forward to that is free from sin,suffering and all of the other pains of this world? To be a morally pure as God Himself is less desired than whatever gospel good would come about in this life? The Bible shows and exposes our hearts and reveals where we are really spiritually? I believe that this doctrine does just that. Not that I believe that good and sincere believers cannot be mistaken on that but it does beg the question as to why such a doctrine is so popular? No one can deny that there is a great deal of difficult statements within any of the end times beliefs? It requires great study but I am confidant that the plains statements of the Bible in the New Testament refute the premillenial idea and definitely the dispensational error like the one Dick Scoffield taught! That is so blatantly false on many counts. Also the pre-trib rapture taught by Hagee and co is also false based on the many plain admonitions of bot Paul and Peter and our Lord who said, watch for you do not know the hour etc? He was talking about His second return not a third?
    So I think Michael Brown is wrong on prophecy and like most Jewish believers he wants to believe that the Jews still hold some special place or standing even in the New Covenant?
    Lastly, he is wrong on the history of the so called Church. Most persecution from a political standing was from the heretical forms of christianity. Not Christians in the biblical or gospel sense of the term but by unsaved clerical officials which ultimately became the Roman Church? Or that branch we call Orthodox etc. Here is where your Jewish persecution is as the false and heretical church which became political under Constantine and later and more aggressively under Justinian. It must be said that true Christians or evangelicals were also persecuted by this Sate backed Ecclesiastical darkness? Inn fact the established state Churches shed far more evangelical blood then they ever did Jewish blood is well attested by history. There were always the true followers of Jesus who stood outside of the heretical powers and challenged them. I would direct anyone to study Baptist history, and I say Baptist history because there has always been a people who are the Assembly of God in Christ who remained steadfast and true to the word of God and who were persecuted because they refused to accept unbaptized believers who were not baptized by immersion as the visible sign of the inward reality of conversion. This set them apart because they knew that the Assembly was not national or political? The Assembly as established by its head and founder called them out from among the nations and ancient Israel was not the exemplar of what this New Covenant Assembly was to be? Over time the state church had made the baptism or sprinkling of infants the covenantal sign of participation in this national entity. In other words they said that baptism replaced circumcision as the sign of the New Covenant as it was like circumcision under the Old Covenant identifying the people of God in a national way as that which replaced ancient Israel. The difference was that Israel was temporary and a single nation whereas Christ was now to make all nations Christian legally just as Israel was a nation guided by specific law and doctrine? That is why Rome had the power to declare heresy worthy of civil punishment as it was the state who was responsible to preserve and enforce the doctrines hammered out by ecclesiastical authority or the clergy. The Roman west the Pope was the Highest and final authority over doctrine and practice while in the East the Patriarch of any given region was at the head of those under his dominion. By insisting that baptism was for adult believers who made an intelligent profession of faith in order to be received into what was truly a Christian Assembly that is a local body of believers for that is what the word in the Greek signifies was a reproach to this political monster that had taken sway over civilization and Lorded over the conscience of people who now lived under official and political christendom? And as the word tells us that Jesus would be glorified in truth in His Assembly, the one He died for and reigns over throughout all ages or literally every single age for a witness to all the world Ephesians 3:21. Even where history fails we know that the Assembly always exists even during great persecution and satanic heresy God is faithful for He cannot deny Himself! It was this Assembly that never persecuted Jews but would gladly receive the children of Abraham by faith as the Bible promises. So lets distinguish between false christianity and the true gospel? Even Chrysostom did not reject believing Jews into a Christian Assembly even though he was hard on unbelieving Jews and even coined the phrase Christ Killers? Unfortunately he held liked the idea of a national church but to his credit as his commentaries disclose had an evangelical fervor and accompanied by sound doctrine? Unlike most of the Greek or Eastern Orthodox who wandered far from the word of our Lord?
    We have a similar thing with Anglicans who are in error on ecclesiology and infant baptism and the King being the head of the English church who nevertheless have men who teach an evangelical gospel like JC Ryle for example or Augustus Toplady and many others. With the Protestant Reformation which came out of the Roman heresy or what they termed Popery retained some of their Romanism by continuing infant baptism as the sign of the New Covenant, although without some of the other heresies of Rome like claiming that baptism takes away original sin etc. Nonetheless they alos made Christianity to be patterned after the model of Israel by teaching that circumcision replaced baptism and that there was a merger of the church and state where it was obligated that the state was responsible to enforce Biblical Orthodoxy and suppress what was deemed heresy as the Theologians of the Reformation like John Calvin or Luther or Zwingli or Know had laid out as being true to the word of God, Calvin’s Institutes served not only as a Theology against the lies and heresies of Rome but as a guide to organize a Reformed society who had been deceived and mislead by Romanists. The Reformers liked the power of the state which is what they were convinced was given by way of example of Israel but now under the Reformed Faith as the rule not for just professed believers but again all of society? It was here as with Rome that the Baptists were despised and regarded as heretics who were then subject to the censor of the state and subjected to various punishment? Baptists or Ana Baptists were treated far worse than Jews ever were living in the cities of the Reformation? Beaten drowned and put to death in many instances because their faith, so it was said would lead to godlessness and promiscuity since they held that you cannot force sinners to act like Christians when they were not Christians in their heart and that the Children of even true Christians were not members of the New Covenant community simply because they were baptized? They were not entitled to that ordinance until they had reached an age where it could be demonstrated that they had been born anew and show the fruits of conversion? Believers baptism. In the eyes of the Reformers this was a serious heresy and had horrible implications for society and therefore it could not be tolerated. If you study the controversy between Roger Willamas and the Puritans in New England you will see just how contentious this issue was? To close as bad as Jews had it in Christian so called Europe or other places these evangelicals suffered worse and on a greater scale. We have to tell the whole history here not just what satisfies a particular personal bias? Brown is right in some ways but he misses the point that the persecution of Jews came from the unsaved false Church and not the one that Christ came to build!
    One last word on the Reformation. While there is this dark side and blindness during the Protestant Reformation let it be said that they did recover the truth and essence of the gospel. Calvin was a brilliant expositor of the word of God and His final edition of His famous and renown Institutes is a work of extraordinary theological and evangelical power erudition and knowledge was one of the greatest forces to spread the Christian faith around the world as most of those he influenced did see some of the errors in his Ecclesiology and held a more Biblical view as the work of Protestant missionaries were used to change the world for the better and bring many souls to a saving knowledge of the truth as it is in Jesus. And thankfully the sect known as the Baptists help keep the Reformers to a closer and more consistent view of the gospel and how it should impact society for political good in the centuries following the 16th century we can say that God was in the Reformation and overruled their dreadful mistakes and brought good from what was in many respects evil and just as Joseph served Hid God through the sin and evil of his brothers not only to spare their lives but to forgive them as well so do Baptists today forgive their errant Brothers and Love them in the Lord. As for Martin Luther who was perhaps the most heavy handed of the Reformers in many way, again harder on the Ana Baptists then the Jews but still heavy handed on the Jews who he saw as being in a state of unbelief and a people who would be a saw and a blemish in a Christian society and potential persecutors of believers thought that he had biblical warrant to oppress Baptists for heresy and Jews because of unbelief failed to take the Bible in all of its statements about Jews, so long as they stood contrary and resistant to the gospel entreaty that it was permissible to treat them as more of an enemy and threat to this erroneous view of a Christian state and similar to Israel had the authority to require unity of doctrine and practice as a matter of law? Just as Augustine used the parable to compel them to come in gave justification establish punitive measures for unbelievers to save their souls if need be? It was seen that this was good for them and if they turned away then they brought God’s wrath upon them and sealed their eternal fate? That sound bizarre to think that you frighten people into the Kingdom of God but that is was for their eternal good? There is no evidence that Luther would ever turn away a Jew who came to believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah and now repented and believed the gospel? He would have readily received any Jew into his Church and society? See his commentary on Romans 9-11. He did to his shame and discredit take a legal position to dealing with those Jews who did not heed the gospel? And again this attitude is seen in his sentiments over the Baptists and even the other Reformers who rejected his errors on the Eucharist which was a compromise between the Roman View and the his fellow Reformers? At any rate for all of his faults he was still a mighty preacher and Christian exegete and theologian. The true gospel was definitely in his overall doctrine. Unfortunately this was the spirit of the age which was very turbulent and hard for the Protestants, Ana Baptists and Jews who all suffered under the so called Christian powers of that age? Many Protestants and other were burnt at the stake and many other tortures? William Tyndale and Jan Huss before him were burnt alive for their commitment to their Lord Jesus who set the way of suffering that we today might be blessed by their sacrifices? We would not have the Bible in English or any other language if God did not raise up all of these men for a witness? Luther devoted his life tirelessly to the translation of the Bible in German. Risked his life and inspired Gods people every where to be bold and fearless? The Baptists or Immerser’s as they eventually came to be known after the end of the first century set the trail of blood during the end of the Roman empire as it transitioned into a christian empire leaving an example for those who would follow after Protestants and everyone else right into the modern era? Not simply as a denomination but as those who were the heirs and joint heirs to our Lord and Hos Apostles. Ephesians 3:21,22. Matthew 16. Let us keep this in mind that God has left Himself a witness for the truth in every generation and will do so until Jesus appears on the clouds of glory to receive His own and judge the nations. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4.

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