Is the Church Spiritual Israel and Are Christians Spiritual Jews?

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Dr. Brown digs into the scriptures, looking at scores of New Testament references to the words “Jew” and “Israel” and concludes that nowhere are Gentile followers of Jesus called spiritual Israel or spiritual Jews. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.

 

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Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: As surely as God is God, He has made promises that He will not break, and those promises remain to a physical and identifiable people, the people of Israel.

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Other Resources:

Is There a Relationship Between Replacement Theology and Anti-Semitism?

Dr. Brown Talks With Scott Volk about Replacement Theology and Wrong Theological Concepts

What Does It Mean to “Complete the Reformation”? And Updates from the Front Lines of the Culture Wars

155 Comments
  1. Ray,

    Yes, I would say I was wrong on Phil. 3:3, that seems to be referring to all believers, whether Jew or Gentile. So, Gentiles and Jewish believers are referred to as the circumcision, which is to be understood as circumcision of the heart from what I gather. I still don’t know of anywhere in the NT where a Gentile believer is called a spiritual Jew though.

  2. Here’s something that came to mind just now as I was listening to Billy Graham, and just wanted to put it on:

    On the cross Jesus became just as if he was guilty, and there was no healing at all for him on the cross, none at all, not for any physical wound or injury.

  3. Rv 2:9“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

    One last comment on Revelation 2 (noticed it while showing a Jewish person it was actually using “Jew” in a positive light–and it didn’t mean “all Jews are a synagogue of satan”–since a “Jew” is “a synagogue of G-d”, and that the only issue was that these individuals weren’t worthy of the title “Jew”). The context is a contrast between physical and spiritual realities.

    Physical: I know your poverty
    Spiritual: But you are rich

    Physical: those who say they are Jews
    Spiritual: aren’t Jews but are a synagogue of satan

    Just as there are spiritual riches, so are there spiritual Jews. Spiritual wealth is defined as “gold refined by fire” [3:17, 18], and the spiritual “Jew” is defined as “he who is a synagogue of God”. The spiritually rich need not be physically rich for Jesus to count them so; thus it may follow that the spiritually Jewish (defined as “he who is a synagogue of God”) need not be physically Jewish for Jesus to count them so–and, remember, there is no question about whether or not there is a spiritual “Jew” in view here.

  4. Christians get fouled up reading the New Testament as if it were written a few years ago. Find your last days in the Old Testament and they surround the messiah. To say the last days are ahead is to deny Jesus based solely on Old Testament prophecy. You wouldn’t read Thomas Payne and think someday we’ll rid ourselves of a monarchy and become a free people? You wouldn’t read the Gettysburg address and think we’re fighting a civil war? You wouldn’t read about the attack on Pearl Harbor and think we just got invaded. Yet you read the New Testament and think it’s written for now. Please! Have some ‘common sense’ and read it as it was written for that time. The messiah has come, has offered salvation to all just like he did with the ninevites and the thief on the cross, and he made sure to let you know he diss approved of mans righteousness by destroying Israel. Everything that is discovered is 20ft underground! Jerusalem was destroyed and covered up just like Micah prophesied would happen in the ‘last days’.

  5. John you need to read a book before you comment. There is good information out there if you want to take an honest assessment of the facts. I do not feel that you will want to do that though, It is up to you to convince the board your not just a hack.

  6. If we believe in those last days, we should believe in these last days, it seems to me.
    Much of what was going on in those last days might be much the same as what is going on today.

  7. John,

    Those secular books are not prophetic books. The Bible is, however, a book about the future. As it happened in the days of the destruction of the Temple, it will happen again. Antichrist will come and the people of God will have to pass through the winepress, a chastisement which will mark the culminating battle between God and Satan. There is always a dual fulfillment. Daniel’s prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem will find their ultimate significance in the coming drama, when Christians will be lead like cattle to their immolation, when Christ will come to vindicate his own.

  8. Bo,

    Yes.

    No, just kidding. John was referring to historical texts and comparing them to the Bible. I was pointing out that those secular works cannot be associated with the Bible.

  9. I couldn’t help but think about how Israel is defined in the Bible and also about how the Church is defined, and notice the similarities. Yet there are some differences as well.

  10. Hmm.

    Something said on the 2015 August 7th broadcast (@hour 1, minute 9) reminded me of this discussion: the 12 gates of New Jerusalem (the “new special place G-d’s special presence lives”), which is the Bride of Christ (believing Jews and Gentiles), have the 12 names of the 12 Tribes of Israel while its 12 foundations are the 12 apostles.

  11. If the gentiles are grafted in to believing Israel, doesn’t that make them part of believing Israel? Has anyone thought about that?

  12. Yes, Noelle, I believe that we (believing gentiles) being grafted in with them, makes us a part of them and them a part of us, one body in Christ. Though we may be of different parts of the Lord’s body, yet we are one in him, are we not?

    Even in one church there are many members and not all members of that church are exactly alike.

  13. Yes, Ray, precisely so.

    This is what I have been saying. Israel is the tree. The believing Jews (the Virgin Mary and her family, John the Baptist and his family, the Apostles, those who followed the Lord), these were the Remnant. Into THESE Jews the gentiles have been grafted, making us co-heirs to the promise to Abraham’s seed, because we are one in the Messiah, because in the Messiah distinctions are not pertinent to a relationship with God. The promise is the Christ, and the salvation that he brings. Those who reject this promise by their disbelief have no inheritance.

    Let’s say that there are promises left for national Israel. Let’s say, for arguments sake. Wouldn’t these promises have to be on account of Christ? If we are Christians, don’t we have to believe that? So, wouldn’t national Israel have to convert to Christ in order to receive the gifts of the Messiah? Dr. Brown says, “But we [the Jews] were gathered in disbelief also.” Okay. But why? The Jews were gathered in disbelief because of the remnant in their midst. Because the remnant of the Jews exists today in the Body of Christ, there is no remnant among the Jewish people who are outside of the Church. Therefore, in order to receive blessing, the Jews must become part of the Church, because only through Christ can salvation be granted. This must be the foundational principle in understanding the position of the disbelieving Jews in our day. We must continue to invite them to accept Christ. Sending money to Israel will not accomplish anything, only prayer will.

  14. re We must continue to invite them to accept Christ. Sending money to Israel will not accomplish anything, only prayer will.

    Ok, put this is an equation-
    say 6 million Jews alive and well today- in the past 2000 years there is another 994 Million that you have just forgotten? ( that is 994 000 000.)
    Including Michael Browns own father that was not lucky enough to read his son’s books. I am sure that he would have been proud and accepted the Messiah. My point here is that there is a whole lot of the equation that you and I do not know. The leaves of the tree do not have the full understanding and sentence the whole tree with the limited parts that we do know. It is true in the fall our leaves will change and we will fall of, but that is not the same perspective to give to the whole tree. We have been assigned a part and we know a part that is true- it ends there.

  15. Is this to say we do nothing- No, not at all. We are leaves and branches and must be that our whole life. Is that to say doing this is in vain- No, not at all. We have a season and this is who, and what we are. Keep in mind, we are still only reaching a fraction of the whole in this equation. 6 < 994)

    Jesus speaks to this directly- contemplate the parable in Matthew 20: 1-16. There is a hidden meaning in that story.

  16. How cruel that would have been to take Dr. Browns father before he could understand what his son was doing. Why would God allow this to happen? If you are going to let anyone in would you not let the father hear what his son is doing? Christians need to use caution here on concentrating on the smallest number. 6 million is a small number compared to how many have been here on this earth. We must be careful on either side of this argument, but it is safe to say we do not understand everything God is doing with this special billion people.

  17. God is our judge. We must leave everything to his mercy. For those who never heard the Gospel, we commit them to the love and mercy of the Father, who wills that all men be saved.

  18. Forgive my frustration and anger, but Noelle, when I read some of your statements, sometimes I concur, and other times I get very upset. I think it’s pretty upsetting when you say things like, “Sending money to Israel will not accomplish anything, only prayer will.” Are you sure about that? So, even sending financial aid to Jewish believers in Israel is not right, according to you? What about what Paul said in Romans 15:25-27? And I quote:

    “But now, I say, I am going to Jerusalem, serving the saints. For it has been the good pleasure of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are at Jerusalem. Yes, it has been their good pleasure, and they are their debtors. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, they owe it to them also to serve them in fleshly things.” Romans 15:25-27 (WEB)

    Also, making a declarative statement that “Israel is the tree,” with presumably much debate surrounding that subject mentioned in Romans 11 seems somewhat questionable. As I think that others may think the root/tree mentioned by Paul in Romans 11 may be the patriarchs, or the promises, and maybe even other things. I’m not sure we can definitively say that the olive root is Israel. At least provide some scriptural evidence that would support that assertion. It might be that Jesus Himself, being the “chief cornerstone” is the root.

    Seems like Ephesians 2:11-22 addresses this issue directly, specifically, we should determine what Paul means when he says,”So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God” in Ephesians 2:19 (WEB).

    Are Gentile believers now fellow citizens with Jewish believers in the the Israel of God, or are the Israel of God (strictly Jewish believers) and Gentile believers fellow citizens of the household of God? I am not sure the answer to that question.

    To be clear, I don’t disagree with everything you say, and I disagree with other things that other people have said here.

    So

  19. James,

    Israel is the tree in the sense that the stock of the Jews is the tree, the stock of Christ. Or Christ himself is the tree. In any case, the tree is of righteous Jewry. I think that every interpretation agrees on this point in some way or another. The Gentiles have been grafted into the Israelites who embraced the Christ. Non-Jews have become united to believing Jews via faith in the Messiah of Israel. In the New Covenant, faith in Christ is the distinguishing mark of the true Israelite. The heirs to the promise are heirs on account of their faith, whereas those who disbelieve inherit only desolation. The question is: are there two components to this faith community, Jews and Gentiles in their distinct camps, or are we a singular people of God. I would say that Jews and Gentiles make up the Israel of God and are therefore one nation, without distinctions.

    I know that certain others disagree extremely.

  20. By the way, Jesus is definitely called the root of Jesse, but I maybe I shouldn’t have brought that up since Romans 11 mentions an olive tree, not root, as far as I know.

  21. Thank you, James, but you haven’t been misleading.

    As far as the link is concerned, I take issue with this statement: “Once a person is born into the covenant nation of Israel, he remains within it until physically dead.” This is where Messianic Jewish theology becomes synonymous with Zionism. If the Jews are still a covenant people, then they still have a right to the land of the Covenant. The problem with this view is that there is no Covenant anymore between God and the Jews only. When the temple veil was broken, God abolished the Mosaic Covenant, and with it the Jews’ claim to an earthly kingdom. When Christ returns he will “return the Kingdom to Israel,” but this will be a kingdom for believers–believing Jews and believing Gentiles. The Kingdom of Heaven will be a more glorious Israel than what was allotted to the Jews in the Old Testament. We have a foretaste of the world to come in the Church, in which Christians are gathered in fellowship with each other in Christ, Jews and Gentiles alike, one new man.

  22. The only “covenant people” are those who are born again.

    When the article says that the Olive Tree is a spiritual commonwealth, it is correctly pointing out that there were believing Jews, those who received the Messiah, and that believing Gentiles were brought into their fold, and that Jews and Gentiles together have a share in salvation through their union in Christ.

    But when I hear that Jews who reject Christ have a covenant with God, a red flag goes up. Their ancestors did. But they do not, since no such covenant exists now. So, such a view is unorthodox and highly suspect.

  23. Noelle,
    All people (unbelievers included) have Covenants with God (Gen 9; Ro 9); therefore, the Ro 11 tree can’t be “Covenant People”, but those of whom it may be said “they are My People and I am their God.”

  24. Daniel,

    But there is only one covenant that saves, the New Covenant, and the Jews who do not believe in Christ cannot fall back on the Mosaic Covenant and expect something from it now that the Messiah has come. If we are all the children of Noah, then we are all covenant people, and the Jews are just like everyone else. Yet they keep calling themselves chosen and claiming that parcel of earth over there.

  25. Another thing I noticed while a Bible was being read aloud that seemed to mirror the realities from the passage of Revelation 21:

    Ephesians 2
    16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,d but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

    Revelation 21
    9Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

  26. Psalm 87

    87 ¶ His foundation is in mountains of holiness.

    2 The LORD loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.

    3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.

    4 ¶ I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to those that know me; behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this one was born there.

    5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man were born in her; and the highest himself shall establish her.

    6 The LORD shall count when he writes up the peoples that this one was born there. Selah.

    7 And singers and players on instruments in her shall say: all my springs are in thee.

  27. Luke 3:16 “…he(end time messiah) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and FIRE. Mike and the rest of you who want to take scripture ultra literally…take the first step. Please prove your ‘sound doctrine’. Gasoline and matches are readily available.

  28. Let me reiterate that Christ established that the children of Abraham are those who have the faith of Abraham. Those who do not have this faith are the children of Satan. No Jewish person can claim to be the child of Abraham unless he has faith.

  29. Ok, Noelle you just again spoke for 994 000 000 million people. Until Noelle came along no one had a chance. Noelle takes the special salvation given to her and closes her eyes and ears and condemns everyone else who does not understand as well as she does. Yes Noelle there is only one salvation door that we all need- however, sit tight there is a huge number of people that have inhabited the earth before you came along- let us see what God may have in his Revelation plan. If John boy above has place in salvation if he will ever stop being a mocker and accept forgiveness for his error.

  30. Psalm 135
    21Blessed be YHVH from Zion, He who dwells in Jerusalem!
    Praise YHVH!

    So, “YHVH” is “He Who dwells in Jerusalem”: earthly Jerusalem, with its Temple (constructed after the pattern of the real Temple–the heavenly one) WAS the place He used to dwell; today, there is a New “Jerusalem” and “Temple” where YHVH “dwells”.

    Ephesians 2
    15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,d but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

    Revelation 21
    9Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

  31. Jesus says, “I know that you are Abraham’s seed…” and “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it, and was glad.”

    It seems that there is a distinction between being a “child” of Abraham and a “descendant”, which I believe the New Testament makes plain. Anyone who believes in Jesus is a child of Abraham, yet not everyone who believes is a descendant of Abraham.

    However, descendants of Abraham are still descendants of Abraham, regardless of their faith or lack thereof, according to the scriptures.

    Paul said about Israel, “Neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are they all children.”

  32. One can be Abraham’s seed physically. The question is, does being a son/descendant of Abraham avail for salvation? The theology of the Messianic Jews posits that the Jewish people, because of their kindredness to the seed of Abraham, still have a covenantal relationship with God. The problem is that the Old Covenant was revoked. Blessings now come through the blood of Christ, and God does not respect persons. The New Testament introduces the concept of descent through faith, and yet that very concept existed in the Old Testament in seed form, as well. Regarding the blood tie of the Jewish people: With so much intermarriage and displacement having occurred, certainly not all of today’s Jews can claim to have any relation to Abraham in the first place. There are people in Israel today, who consider themselves to be Jewish, who have no “Abrahamic” blood whatsoever. So, does such a person have a connection to God and to the land by descent? No. By faith in Christ? No. So, then what?

  33. Noelle, of course there will be some who are not physically related at all, either because of conversion, etc. I imagine there were plenty Jews by conversion during the times of Jesus and beforehand. However, not sure what your point is… Unless you have some sort of quantifiable proof that on the genetical/ancestral makeup of the majority of Jewish people living in the land isn’t Abrahamic, I really don’t see the weight of your point there.

    God’s promise of the physical land is to the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not sure we should speculate on the access to the land promises to those who consider themselves Jewish by conversion or otherwise:

    “Don’t consider what this people has spoken, saying, The two families which Yahweh did choose, he has cast them off? thus do they despise my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. Thus says Yahweh: If my covenant of day and night fails, if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; then will I also cast away the seed of Jacob, and of David my servant, so that I will not take of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and will have mercy on them.” Jer 33:24-6

    Notice that word ‘mercy’.

    “Therefore tell the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: I don’t do [this] for your sake, house of Israel, but for my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations, where you went. I will sanctify my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am Yahweh, says the Lord Yahweh, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. I will also give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my ordinances, and do them. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will save you from all your uncleanness: and I will call for the grain, and will multiply it, and lay no famine on you. I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that you may receive no more the reproach of famine among the nations. Then you shall remember your evil ways, and your doings that were not good; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Nor for your sake do I [this], says the Lord Yahweh, be it known to you: be ashamed and confounded for your ways, house of Israel.

    Thus says the Lord Yahweh: In the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be built. The land that was desolate shall be tilled, whereas it was a desolation in the sight of all who passed by. They shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are fortified and inhabited. Then the nations that are left around you shall know that I, Yahweh, have built the ruined places, and planted that which was desolate: I, Yahweh, have spoken it, and I will do it.” Ezekiel 36:22-36

    If ANY person, claims that unbelieving Jews can find some other means to salvation other than through Jesus, they are wrong. I don’t really understand fully your statement, “The theology of the Messianic Jews posits that the Jewish people, because of their kindredness to the seed of Abraham, still have a covenantal relationship with God.” I mean, first of all, not all Messianic Jews agree on everything I would imagine. Also, There are multiple covenants, not just two. The Abrahamic covenant was one which was unconditional. Please read these passages in scripture:

    “Yahweh appeared to Abram and said, “I will give this land to your seed.” He built an altar there to Yahweh, who appeared to him.” Gen 12:7

    “And the LORD said to Abram, after Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art, northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: for all the land which you see, I will give to you, and to your offspring forever.” Gen 13:14-5

    “In that day Yahweh made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates:” Gen 15:18

    Notice words such as ‘seed’, ‘offspring’ – and remember when Jesus says, “I know that you are Abraham’s seed…”

  34. James,

    The prophecies were fulfilled in Christ. God did re-gather the Jews after their exile and the Messiah did come and make a New Covenant with them. Did this not already happen? It did happen. Otherwise, there is no Christianity. With those who did not kneel to Baal, God fulfilled his promises to the House of Israel. The others, those who denied Christ, went the way of the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf.

    But I keep hearing from “Messianic Jews” that God is working among the Pharisaic lot, hence the modern state of Israel, and that he is doing this because they are God’s chosen people, etc. In what way are they chosen? By their race? No. By their faith? No. Christ said, to the sect of the Jews who did not have faith, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning…”

  35. Furthermore, for clarification: The people who claim that the Jews have a relationship with God outside of the New Covenant, which entitles them to the land of Canaan in modern times, claim this based on the race of the Jews. They cannot claim this based on the faith of the Jews, so they must appeal to the ethnicity of the Jewish people. If it can be demonstrated that a certain “Jewish person” does not have the blood of Abraham, that person cannot have a claim to the land. If he has no faith in God, all the more so does his claim fall flat. Do you see the dilemma here?

  36. Not a dilemma.

    First we may glean from the scriptures that Jewish converts are considered as native-born:

    “When a stranger shall live as a foreigner with you, and will keep the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one who is born in the land: but no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One law shall be to him who is born at home, and to the stranger who lives as a foreigner among you.” Exodus 12:48-9

    Besides this, on a practical level, If the physical descendants of Abraham in government determine that Jews by conversion are allowed to become citizens and live in the land, that’s their call. Scripturally, possibly relating to the Exodus passage noted above, it may be that Jews who have no physical inheritance from Abraham
    still inherit the land promise along with the actual physical descendant Jews – but on that point I am not certain.

  37. Actually this was said sort of sloppily, “First we may glean from the scriptures that Jewish converts are considered as native-born:”, but I think the point is understandable, that foreigners in Israel who desired to follow God during the time of Moses to some degree were to be considered equal with native-born citizens.

    When I was saying, “Besides this, on a practical level…” I should say that this statement applies to policies in modern Israel, etc. Not necessarily to what the teaching is in the Old Testament regarding such things – though again, my position on that is one of agnosticism.

  38. I wrote another comment but put my email address in incorrectly, so it’ll come up delayed. I’ll respond again later.

  39. James,

    Since my other comment was not posted yet, let me say that what you quoted from Exodus cannot possibly apply to a modern nation-state, since the Christ came and already fulfilled the laws of the Torah. The Jews of the Old Testament were themselves a composite ethnicity. People did convert to the Israelites, and foreigners did become part of the stock of Abraham. The point is that they had a common faith. Today, the Jews outside the Body of Christ have neither faith nor a unified ethnicity to stand on. Therefore, there cannot be a covenant between God and the Jews outside faith in Christ. As a matter of fact, there never was a covenant between God and the Jews that did not require faith. God made his Covenant with a religious community, which is why so many of the Jews’ co-religionists did not inherit the nation which God promised Abraham. Many were lost in the wilderness, etc. God regathered the Jews on behalf of the Remnant in the midst of the Jews. Today, that Remnant is in the Church, not in the Synagogue.

    I have to keep asking this, and I never get an answer: What is the point of the State of Israel? Why does it need to be there? When Christ comes, he will have his kingdom. So what’s with jumping the gun? Why are these people so keen on this country, and why aren’t they concerned with the salvation of souls, as opposed to the salvation of a political movement?

    You mentioned that you are a Jewish believer. I understand how some of what I say can offend you but please understand that my indictment is not against Jews but against the ideology of Zionism and against those who would use Christianity to advance that political movement, which is becoming a very serious problem in the Church today. The Church and the State of Israel are strange bedfellows, yet the Church has become a vehicle for the Zionists’ agenda.

  40. Read God’s UNCONDITIONAL promises again to Abraham. Keep reading them until it finally sinks in. He promised that He would give Abraham’s physical descendants the land. You are not God and do not get to determine that because we may not be entirely sure about the entire ethnicities of those Jewish people in the modern state that therefore God isn’t allowed to work among them to bring in those descendants into the land as well as others. Read Jeremiah again. What’s becoming a very serious problem in the church today is the abusing of plain biblical passages by rendering them nonsensical. It doesn’t change a thing if Zionism is a political movement or otherwise, God is still God and if He can use pagan Romans to scatter Israel, then He can use secular Zionists to regather them. That’s who brought up the Exekiel passage, as some interpret that to imply that God’s sprinkling of the Israelites with clean water would be AFTER the regathering.

    By the way, where did I reference Exodus?

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