What do I make of teaching that says that God is a happy God who will never punish anyone? If we say the Bible’s teaching on slavery is not for today, how can we say that the Bible prohibition of homosexual practice is for today? If a Christian couple is barren, is IVF an option for them? Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: There are endless opinions being expressed on the internet and through the media. Do you believe what God says or what people say?
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Yes, technology continues to improve and grown. Our ethics better improve and grow with it or we’ll make a mess out of the world and human race.
SPECIAL OFFER! THIS WEEK ONLY!
This week, get Dr. Brown’s book Hyper-Grace, which is making an impact across America and in many nations, along with his special audio teaching on God’s True Grace, which is designed to help believers understand the beauty and power of the grace of God. Get the book and CD together for just $20, postage paid, a savings of $10 off the retail price. Order Online Here!
Other Resources:
Is Hyper-Grace Good?
Pastor Joel Osteen’s Stance on Homosexuality
Difficult Passages in the Torah and the Believer Today
The gay population may only be at the level of 1% but that will increase. “Civilized society,” which is, of course, controlled by its emperor, the prince of this world, is pressuring the youth, encouraging people from a very young age to experiment sexually. In a century, sexual fluidity will be normative. The poles of “gay” and “straight” will not be cut and dry. Homosexuality and bisexuality will be as commonplace as cohabitation.
I think it’ll be a lot less than a century. I’ll say within 30 years. Look how quickly things have turned in the last 30 years. I wouldn’t have believed we’d be where we are now, back then…
Maybe 50. That would be time enough for 2 new generations to come up. That’s about right. They’ve already been well indoctrinated in kindergarten.
Nicholas,
>> The gay population may only be at the level of 1% but that will increase.
>>Homosexuality and bisexuality will be as commonplace as cohabitation.
You base this on what? Certainly not science.
Homosexuality, as an orientation, is not a fad or the flu.
You just think it is increasing because, with less oppression, more people are publicly admitting they are gay.
Likewise, homosexuals who were formally pressured into unhappy heterosexual marriages are now marrying the partner they love.
As equality and freedom, on this issue, becomes commonplace in America this seeming-increase will level off.
>>The poles of “gay” and “straight” will not be cut and dry.
They aren’t, now, for some people. Yes, most of us are “cut and dry” in our sexual orientation and most of us are straight.
Is your own sexual orientation not “cut and dry”?
I am not saying this to taunt you. It is just, in my observation, that some people who deeply worry about the “spread” of homosexuality in society are actually worried it might spread to them, personally.
You can relax — it doesn’t work that way. If you are solidly straight — a gay couple moving in next door isn’t going to turn you gay.
And, if you are already conflicted on the issue, the gay couple didn’t cause it.
Hey Greg,
I realize that homosexuality is not “contagious,” per se. However, society is indoctrinating children – especially girls, to be frank. When kids are bombarded with Katy Perry songs about lesbian experimentation, when they watch story lines on primetime television about two otherwise heterosexual women who suddenly fall for each other, and when the media encourages them to embrace their inner lesbian, what would stop them, when the inhibitions are down, when there are no consequences? Men may not be quite as susceptible to the message of sexual fluidity, but, as the culture continues to blur the gender lines, and with the mainstreaming of transsexualism, we will most probably witness a similar phenomenon among boys. The thing is, while some people may be predisposed to find members of the same sex sexually attractive, there are other factors which can contribute to the development of homosexual tendencies in an individual. It can be environmental. This is the end goal of movements which vigorously promote homosexuality: to introduce an environment in which the distinctions of homosexual and heterosexual no longer exist. It is not merely about rights. It is about manipulating sexual normalcy. Think about Sodom and Gomorrah. The entire population exchanged natural sex for unnatural sex. Were they all “born that way”? I venture to say, probably not, but they all picked up the habit easily enough.
I guess if doing what comes naturally is a virtue, then we should not teach our children to share or not to hit or not to have angry outbursts or to not take toys away from others or to not eat too much candy or not to shoplift or not to engage in premarital sex or not to practice homosex. If what comes naturally has many pitfalls and is sinful behavior, maybe we should train our children to not do these things.
If you send your children to Sodom and Gomorrah (Public education and the current entertainment establishment) to be indoctrinated (like Lot did) instead of staying away from those well watered valleys via home schooling and shunning worldly entertainment (like Abraham did), then do not expect anything different that Lot got…a destroyed life, a lost family, and an incestuous, worldly offspring.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Homosex, no matter how “natural,” is a damning sin. “Flee fornication” is not a suggestion. Stop supporting ungodly entertainment and do not send your children to public education…if you are child of Abraham. Our causing little ones to stumble via our status quo mentality is still worth our being drown with a millstone about our necks.
Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Greg, is your necklace seeming a little heavy? I hope you do not live close to the ocean.
Well said Greg
Nicholas,
>>they watch story lines on primetime television about two otherwise heterosexual women who suddenly fall for each other,
I can’t remember seeing such story line. The closest might be a lesbian woman who has been pressured, by society, into an unhappy straight lifestyle.
Should would not “suddenly” fall into lesbianism but would realize that she needs to be true to “how God made her.”
>> and when the media encourages them to embrace their inner lesbian,
Sexual orientation, I suppose, is an “inner” thing. Are you an “inner” straight guy? Or are you just a guy who likes gals?
Conversely, f you are attracted to women but have been pressured into a gay relationship, I would counsel you to “embrace your inner heterosexuality” too. (Such a scenario is rare but I’ve heard of it happening.)
>> what would stop them, when the inhibitions are down, when there are no consequences?
There on consequences on either side of this debate.
I have a friend who married a gay guy who I also knew. . This guy was pressured into a straight marriage because his parents and my church were convinced he was just “confused.”
What a heartbreak. Predictably, the marriage was a disaster. I feel bad for the both of them although I’m closer to the woman who was the totally innocent victim of the “consequences” of denying good science and common sense on this issue.
… I should add that this failed marriage has children who are also suffering the consequences of fully dunbunked conservative notions about homosexuality.
James,
Thanks! If I remember correctly, you are conservative Christian who had re-thought the gay issue.
I’m an Evangelical who has done the same.
I’m currently reading, “Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality” by Jack Rogers
He is a fellow Evangelical who also realized how wrong the church’s anti-gay position is.
He used to head the Presbyterian Church so the book is heavy on that tradition but, so far, it’s a very interest account of his own change of mind and opening of his heart.
He also makes a convincing argument that the gay issue very closely parallels the black-equality issue and the womens-equality issue in the church.
Here’s a solid refutation of Jack Rogers’ book: http://robgagnon.net/articles/RogersUseAnalogies.pdf; here it is in HTML as well: http://robgagnon.net/RogersUseAnalogies.htm
Thanks, Dr. Brown, for the links. I’ll read them.
In his book, Rogers anticipates that people will accuse him of a bad analogy and effectively argues against the standard arguments.
He provides many quote, from that time, about blacks and women which are extremely similar to the current arguments against gays.
So, I’ll be reading your link carefully to see if it brings any new logic or facts to the debate.
OK — read the link.
Gagnon throws up a lot of dust but doesn’t address the core issue — conservative Christians back then and conservatives Christians now are making the same basic argument against equality of our fellow Americans.
And, interestingly, Gagnon makes the exact rhetorical mistake that Rogers anticipates he will — he uses a reformed understanding of race to argue that the analogy is bad.
The analogy the Rogers is drawing is between the church’s past _unreformed_ understanding of race with the current _unreformed_ understanding of sexual orientation.
That’s the apples-to-apples analogy. And it’s a strong one.
Conservative Christianity’s current anti-gay rhetoric is extremely similar to their past anti-black and anti-women rhetoric.
(And anti-Jewish rhetoric, Boswell would probably add.)