Dr. Brown interviews Ariel Blumenthal who has lived in Israel for the last 16 years but came to faith in Japan as a Jew seeking spiritual enlightenment in Zen Buddhism. He speaks fluent Japanese and is about to move to China with his family to help assist the Chinese Church in its Back to Jerusalem movement. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The God who saves us is the God who reconciles us to Himself and even to our enemies.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: It all goes hand in hand: the salvation of the nations, the salvation of Israel, the return of the Messiah. Let us work together to hasten that day.
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Folks, one quick reminder NOT to use this thread for personal purposes or arguments but only to discuss the subject matter of each program. Thanks!
Van,
What are you trying to prove by being rude? I thought you were supposedly full of good will without being a Christian.
Perhaps you should prove that by apologizing.
I agree Sheila.
It’s one thing to check out someone’s social media sources, but it’s another thing to be an out right prick..
Some people have nothing better to do except be internet trolls..
Vain, You have crossed the line- It is time to make this website to have access to people who are torch bearers. If you want to comment you must be a member. To have Vain throw stones constantly while it makes us stronger in our beliefs as he highlights his foolishness it is time to throw him out. You have insulted the G_d of Israel Vain, and this ministry- I am in favor of making this a members only website to be constructive and not to have a stone thrower who never has once put our a concrete arguement. Terrorism needs to have a wall up on this site, Van is just here to give his demonic opinion. He can inult me, but I will not tolerate some of the other demonic pranks he spews! Now, if he wants to be a porch beaver he can have access…
On the streaming show, the first hour was a repeat of the Holocaust Remembrance Day show — which I thought was one of Dr. Browns best shows.
He reminded us listeners of the irrationality of Jew hatred.
It would be almost laughable now how people blamed the black plague on the Jews — if such cruel bigotry didn’t eventually lead to the holocaust.
And, that there is very similar bigotry going on today — against the gays.
I lots track of how many of my conservative Christian friends blamed Katrina on the gays. Some prominent conservative Christian leaders even told their followers this! http://x.co/4jEXz
This is every bit as ignorant, cruel and bigoted as blaming the black plague on the Jews.
And, incredibly cynical since many of the same people who deny global warming also blame the effects of global warming on the gays!
Virtually all credible scientists say there wil be an inevitable large increase in cataclysmic weather events due to global warming.
What will happen if Christian conservatives keep blaming the gays for this?
Could there be another holocaust — this time with the gays?
Jon,
You said it again!
>>Now, if he wants to be a porch beaver he can have access…
I asked you yesterday what a “porch beaver” was — thinking it was a Southernism.
Now I think it is auto-correct. LOL! (seriously, it actually made me laugh out loud.)
Van,
>> Perhaps most of your shows are not interesting enough to draw a lot of comments. Just sayin….
And, yet, here you are again! 😉
jon,
>>Vain, You have crossed the line-
I admire Dr. Brown for allowing diversity of opinion on his site. Lots of web sites ban people they disagree with — even when it is a honest disagreement.
My may concern about Van is the bad reputation he gives atheists. Van is an atheist supremacist which is not representative of average reasonable atheists. (Just like white supremacists are not representative of most white people. Ironically the supremacist wing any movement is always the worst! )
Most atheists I know have no problem with religion. The don’t believe it, of course, but they accept that there is room for differing world views.
Van, what do you think of Buddhism?
Greg, Porch Beaver’s are what was on yesterday’s show. The call was placed in English to the hotel to have a dinner prepared for the torch bearer’s. When the arrived at the hotel they were seated at the 3 tables and the tables were labeled the Porch Beaver’s. ( Lost in translation ). Greg, are you a porch beaver?
Greg, can you imagine Rush Limbaugh the amount of attacks from his enemies that he would get? Limbaugh has a subscription on his site and if you want to e mail and tear apart what he stands for you can pay for it.
Diversity is welcomed on this site, it has really just become nonsensical when someone just is out to try to tear you down and not even debate with a poor argument. Your arguments you at least try to make a point. Sure, almost everyone disagrees with you but your making an argument. If someone is just full of venom and spews manure and throws rocks it might not be the most productive threads to have in mining for truth.
Van, You have got to listen to this program with Arial. This program will speak to your heart.
Neon Sign
I believe this, and now I have heard Ariel say the same thing. One generation since 1948 and the revelation of the Messiah. This was simply extroidinary!
Jon,
Oh, I get it now. So — so it was a typo on signs.
Are you asking if I donate to Dr. Brown’s ministry?
No.
I can’t, in good conscience, support an organization that promotes homophobia. I just don’t think that Jesus would do that.
Greg, Do you think Jesus gives Dr. Brown anything at all, in your opinion? Do you think he supports him in anything he does?
jon,
I agree — Van mostly comes here to bash you guys.
Have you ever wondered why he comes here rather than an atheist discussion group?
I believe it’s because he is a fellow fundamentalist. (atheist, of course, not Christian)
On this blog, he can frame his arguments in terms of polarized absolutes as fundamentalists do. You guys engage him at that level.
As a liberal Christian, I can’t really engage Van because I don’t share either Christianity or fundamentalism with him.
– – – – – –
PS: You may wonder why _I_ come here: it’s because I am an Evangelical Christian. I know it is hard for you to accept but not all Evangelicals are “family values” conservative. A lot of us are liberals who have had a born again experience, love the bible, spread the Gospel and try to faithfully follow Jesus.
You THINK you completely disagree with me when, in fact, we argue mostly about issues peripheral to the Gospel — namely homosexuality, abortion, eschatology and politics.
Greg Allen,
You said, “I can’t support a ministry that promotes homophobia”.
I’m sure he’ll do fine without it.
Question: Don’t you think you’re on the wrong side if God is supporting Dr. Brown’s words–extending His Hand to work signs and wonders? Don’t you find it odd that God backs what you don’t?
Ray,
>>Greg, Do you think Jesus gives Dr. Brown anything at all, in your opinion? Do you think he supports him in anything he does?
I have been here long enough to know that I regularly agree with Dr. Brown.
For example, this week I really liked his position on tongues. While he believes that it is a gift for all Christians (I don’t think so) he leaves enough room for diversity in the church about it. This kind of position put trust in the Holy Spirit to direct individuals according to the conscience and understanding of the bible. I do think that’s a value of Jesus.
DB,
“Signs and wonders” are highly subjective and independent of the bible.
And, almost useless in determining genuine ministry if you weren’t personally there to witness them.
I’ve seen signs and wonders in my own ministry. But, I don’t require _you_ to take them as proof of my correctness on the gay issue.
Nobody has engages me on my original point:
Doesn’t anybody see a parallel between blaming the Jews for the Black Plague and blaming gays for today’s natural disasters?
Here is the sad thing — I think Dr. Brown, deep in his heart, understands the similarity but doesn’t admit that he is sewing the same kind of seeds that grew into terrible fruit for Jews.
I’m not sure what a porch beaver is but I’m thinking it might be something that would work to chew down the supports to part of a man’s house, and take whatever he can to build his own dam or whatever.
Greg, Do you believe Peter was homophobic when he wrote chapter 2 of his second epistle?
Greg Allen,
Alright, have a good afternoon.
Ray,
I think Peter was writing to a culture that had no concept of sexual orientation.
We know better now.
But, even so, I see no homophobia in 2 Peter 2. Are you sure you aren’t projecting your own homophobia into God’s word?
Ray,
>>I’m not sure what a porch beaver is but I’m thinking it might be something that would work to chew down the supports to part of a man’s house, and take whatever he can to build his own dam or whatever.
You mean the way European Christians took advantage of a holocaust of indigenous people and then claimed, “America was built on Christian values.” Some values!
Well, I gotta get to work.
I think I made a very valid point about the similarity between Christians blaming the Black Plague on the Jews and Christians blaming natural disasters on the gay.
I think your silence says that I am on to something.
Have a good day. Love your neighbor!
Greg,
Can you name any civilization that wasn’t built the same way? You conquer one and take over. It’s been that way since the dawn of civilization. Why call it civil—I don’t know… And weren’t there a lot more civilizations that weren’t Christian that conquered others? Yes, there were. Why aren’t you ragging the pagans?!
Greg,
And I’ve noticed that you’ve brought gays into this conversation too and you accuse us of being obsessed with the subject. Did you listen to the broadcast?
Greg, When M.B. goes to the west coast definately make a full effort to visit. I do enjoy bantering on a few of the subjects. Keep looking at the issues, and read Hyper grace.. The book is even better than I expected.
Van, Are you going to join the website if it is a subscription? Where else can you get so richly fed, and help the ministry of the gospel in the last days>
Greg:
(1) From what scholarly sources did you derive the opinion that Paul and Peter were “writing to a culture that had no concept of sexual orientation”?
(2) Why do you give these sources more weight than gay scholar, Dr. John Boswell, who disagrees with you?
(3) What is it about Paul’s jewishness that would keep him from knowing about, and referring to, long-term, adult homosexual relationships, such as we know today? Paul was brought up in a city which had been under Greek control for over 300 years. Paul could quote Greek philosophers, he had written the First Epistle to the Corinthians, whose members were only 50 miles from Athens–the heart of Greek philosophical thought and thinkers.
(4) How could Paul and the gentiles in his churches possibly be ignorant of Greek adult, long-term homosexual relationships?
Greg, Are you not projecting your own liberal views unto St. Peter if you suspect he would have a different perspective today, since today people talk about sexual orientation, something you seem to think people back in Peter’s time had no concept of?
Greg, why do you work to undermine what Peter wrote and yet consider yourself to be a Christian?
I guess the new gospel now is something about how all that condemnation and judgment against sinners was back in Peter’s day, but now we have some understanding about things like sexual orientation and all, so I guess it’s better to be sinners today than back then, seeing how things have evolved.
Sheila,
>>Can you name any civilization that wasn’t built the same way? You conquer one and take over. It’s been that way since the dawn of civilization
Hmmm. I honestly haven’t thought of it that way.
Who did the native Americans conquer?
Or the Chinese? Or the Celts? Or the Japanese? Or the Incas?
It seems like one of those groups probably didn’t kill-off millions of people and then call it a gift of God.
That’s the part the bothers me. When Americans claim that God gave us this country, they don’t acknowledge that it was taken away from someone else including the extinction of whole tribes and often violently.
Ray,
>>Greg, why do you work to undermine what Peter wrote and yet consider yourself to be a Christian?
I could ask you:
Why do you put your own opinions and prejudices into Peter’s mouth and yet consider yourself to be a Christian?
But I won’t ask that. That would be just a cheap shot at someone’s faith.
I will ask — why do you feel a need to demagogue an issue as peripheral to the bible as homosexuality?
Sheila,
>And I’ve noticed that you’ve brought gays into this conversation too and you accuse us of being obsessed with the subject. Did you listen to the broadcast?
I did listen to this one. I listened to the whole show when originally broadcast and part of it again.
I believe it is the one where a caller says that homosexuality will bring calamity on all our homes.
And Dr. Brown misses and opportunity to warn the caller against the dangers of scapegoating homosexuals the way that Jews were scapegoated.
Aaron,
>>(2) Why do you give these sources more weight than gay scholar, Dr. John Boswell, who disagrees with you?
You made this claim earlier and I’m willing to discuss this with you.
Did you read his whole book?
If so, you know that he makes a very compelling argument that there was not not one cultural view on homosexuality in the ancient world and over time. In fact, even within Christianity, there has been a long struggle between multiple understanding of marriage, some that are compatible with homosexuality and some not.
I am talking about the rural Hebrews and early Christians — not Plato. Rural cultures are going to have a pro-creative view of marriage — rather than pair bonding.
Plato did seem to understand same-sex attraction but it doesn’t mean that the Hebrews did.
Even without reading Boswell, this seems obvious.
It has been a few months since I read Boswell but I think he also argues that even in cultures that accepted homosexual practice, it was seen more as an aside to marriage than as another form of marriage. And it was considered unremarkable as long as id didn’t interfere with the procreative duties of marriage. It was not about orientation.
(You can correct me on the last one. I am going from memory. But please don’t correct me if you haven’t read the whole book. Boswell makes very complex arguments that aren’t suitably copy-and-pasted from Google Books.)
Aaron,
>>4) How could Paul and the gentiles in his churches possibly be ignorant of Greek adult, long-term homosexual relationships?
You seriously have to ask this?
My mother will tell you, just a generation ago, she had no idea about adult, long-term homosexual relationships. And she had access to newspapers and a library! Heck, she probably had better access to Plato’s writings than did Paul.
Hi Greg,
It’s true, a generation or so ago most people didn’t think about homosexuality very much, and didn’t consider the possibility that two people of the same sex would engage in sexual activity. If you go farther back, to, say, Victorian times, it would’ve been unthinkable and untenable, at least in polite society, and in the Middle Ages, etc. But, in the age of Paul, it would’ve been in your face, so he would’ve seen it on a day to day basis, especially in the Greek world. He wouldn’t have been ignorant of gay relationships at all. They were quite the norm in his time and in that context, not in Jewish circles, no, but definitely in the pagan world.
Folks, we will start blocking all those who do not comply with our posting guidelines, which include staying on the topic of the thread. So, to be clear, this is not a bulletin board for your own topics but a site to comment on the topic of the radio show. If there’s a subject you want to comment on from a past show, please go to that link. Disagreement is warmly welcomed, as long as it is respectfully stated — but it must be on the topic of the show. Thanks for complying!
I never did seem to understand what Buddhism was about, all that meditation on whatever. It seems to me that people want to look within themselves
for something that will give their life meaning, while all the time trying to empty themselves of something at the same time.
I suppose they don’t want to find any kind of answer outside of their self, because that would mean what? Some kind of fellowship or something?
Or maybe they are afraid of being at odds with something outside of their self or something.
Nicholas,
In compliance wit Dr. Brown – I’m going to move this discussion to here.
http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2014/05/29/a-special-best-of-broadcast/
PS to Aaron: If you have read Boswell’s book – I’d like to discuss it with you on the same link. If you have read even one book on the history of marriage, it makes you better informed than most “family values” conservatives I know.