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Very interesting audio clips today from the Dennis Prager show with that leader in the lesbian community about her saying in other circumstances she would have been straight, etc.
A childhood friend of mine, when in his twenties, began to date a woman who had been a lesbian for over eight years. She came out of a troubled relationship with another woman. She was co-workers with my friend and they began to date and soon was straight again and they indeed married and now have a beautiful daughter and attend a local church in their community. There is always hope.
Benjamin,
While you still hear a lot of simplistic “I was born this way” and “It’s a lifestyle choice” talk about sexual orientation, the current science is much more complex. Simply put, sexual preference is as complex as any human preference — a highly personal combination of “nature and nurture.”
I didn’t hear the segment you are referring to but It’s not surprising to me that an informed (and honest!) person would admit they could have turned out differently if life had played out differently.
Greg,
Do not forget that they can still make a choice and make their life turn out differently.
I was a intrigued to hear Dr. Brown say that he got very little income from his book sales.
I’ve wondered about that. It seems like every radio personality is constantly hawking books for sale or as a donation “gift.” And the books aren’t exactly cheap.
Bo,
it depends on what you mean by a choice.
Preferences, of any kind, are rarely a simple choice. I don’t ever remember choosing to like rock music, coffee, detective novels or women. (to name some random stuff!)
Take detective novels, for example. I am sure I wasn’t “born” liking detective novels. Yet, I remember liking them as far back as junior high. I assume there was some choice involved when I picked up the first one but I never remember making that deliberate choice.
How much more complex is sexual attraction than a love for detective novels? A lot, I assume.
Nor cheap to print, nor cheap to pay for radio time. Some people do live modest lives and pump the extra into the ministry for the sake of souls. Better to supply a product that can bless people and provide for the ministry like Paul did than to live in multimillion dollar mansions and not lay up treasure in heaven.
Bo,
As I think about this… lack of attraction is even more complex.
I don’t like classical music.
I tried to like it since I admired people who did. I intellectually understand that it is one of the great art forms of all time.
My dad listened to classical music, I have owned and listened to it. I even once bought season tickets to the orchestra.
But, a few years ago, I finally admitted that I don’t like classical music.
Now, tell me Bo, where is the choice in that?
Greg,
The choices we make in the little things affect us in the big things…choices are leveraged or magnified by our years of life. If we have made a bad investment, we need to sell out and start over, not continue to make more bad choices. Subjecting ourselves to the truth of scripture once we find out we are wrong and have made wrong choices is very important. Helping people remain in the bad choice of homosex is helping toward the wrath of YHWH. Helping them to repent is what needs to be done. You view causes little ones to stumble and helps them think that they are ok when they are in great danger. You really need to get a clue.
Greg,
Sometimes we do not like what is right and we like what is wrong. Music may or may not fall into these categories. It is a bad analogy. If I only like chocolate, does that mean that I should not eat raw vegetables?
Bo,
>> nor cheap to pay for radio time.
That’s the question I have. Some radio preachers (not Dr. Brown) frequently ask for donations for the radio time. Then the radio pastor uses the radio time to sell their books.
In a past career, I’ve paid big bucks for radio ads.
Does the radio preacher pay the ministry for the airtime promoting his book?
I’m not accusing anyone. It’s just something I’ve wondered about.
Bo,
It’s not an analogy. It’s just how preference works.
Sexual preference is not in some special category, as far as I’ve ever heard.
You like what you like for a complex set of reasons. Choice may be part of that — but not in any simple sense.
Greg,
I had a little brother that was Spocked instead of spanked. He always got his way. He told our mom at the age of about 4, “I’m not eating this crap, give me some Cinnamon toast and coke.” He got it. He was rewarded for bad choices and died of alcoholism at the age of 40. He had at least 20 years to make better choices of who he hung around with and such. He chose to go down the wrong road. I know about nature and nurture. The problem is that you can only blame your parents for you problems until the age of 20 according to scripture. We are all responsible to YHWH after that.
Choosing homosex is chosing against YHWH. We just need to grow up and admit it. If we must be celibate to enter the kingdom of heaven, so be it. It is a small price to pay.
Greg,
I like rock and roll. I choose not to listen to it for spiritual reasons. Going with our preferences is not a right. We give up our rights when we enlist in YHWH’s army. When we leave our old master because a new master bought us with a price, we forsake our old master’s ways…no matter how hared it is.
Oops, “no matter how hard it is.”
Greg,
The carnal minded man is subject to his own preferences instead of to YHWH’s law…His preferences. The carnal man is not spiritually minded. He is going down the wrong road. He needs to be born again so that he can be subject to YHWH’s law. Helping people to stay carnal and in submission to their carnal preferences is helping them into the lake of fire ultimately.
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Bo,
Spocked instead of spanked! I have never heard that! From what I know about alcoholism, I doubt it was because of how he was raised.
You and I may not completely disagree on this narrow point — I agree that morality and ethics often includes choosing not to follow our urges.
Furthermore, isn’t that how morality works?
It not a moral virtue to abstain from things you don’t want to do, anyway.
So, for me. The causes of sexual orientation is an interesting question but it doesn’t answer the moral debate.
Bo,
I gotta go. I’m not doing a “potshot” — I have a church obligation.
I neglected to mention that I’m sorry to hear about your brother. That sounds like a tragedy.
So what if God gives someone over to vile affections? What should they do?
A. Give into the affections and tell the world that it’s just the way you are, or that God wants you to be that way.
B. Resist the temptations till the day you die, don’t give in to the desires of fallen flesh, seek God anyway, worship him no matter what, because who knows when God might take away such things, for as it is written, The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.
I believe the choice depends on whether or not they want to be a Christian or not, whether they want to live by faith or not.
Greg I agree it’s very complex. Specially after watching a video that was posted in another thread called “The Kinsey Syndrome” on youtube.
But the choice is always available to not act on ones desires.