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I’m thinking that if Christian kids shouldn’t date, what do parents do with them to prepare them for life (marriage and family)?
What should they do instead of dating?
I wonder how many parents talk to their kids to prepare them for life. Things a parent says to their child can stay with them like nothing else anyone else might say to them. I think that’s something to with the authority a parent has with their child.
So before they send them out to school into a dark and perverse world, do they lay hands on them, look them in the eye and say something like. “Listen _______, You don’t have to be like anyone else would like you to be. You don’t have to do things your peers might want you to do. You don’t have to impress any of them. Remember who you belong to. You are the Lord’s property because he gave his life for you. You belong to him. So you don’t have to do whatever other kids do. Remember to pray. Remember the cross. Remember you have an eternal bright and blessed future will all of the redeemed, all the family of God in heaven….”
I wonder how many parents tell their child about how many grand children they want someday. I wonder how many children ever ask their parent that question.
Do they want a big family get together at the holidays or not?
When they’re old do they want a large family picture or not?
I wonder how many kids ask their parent if they will help prepare them for life.
How do married people get along? Is it ever about power or control, of is it about never oppressing another and always talking out any matter that might be the cause of any present distress. Is it about forgiving? What’s it all about, Dad?
I wonder if kids ever ask.
20 minutes in and it’s an eye opening show for me.
Dating is preparation for divorce: not preparation for marriage. It goes like this…get close, share intimately…then break up. Do this about 5 or 6 times, sharing more and being more intimate, and when things do not seem to be working out just get a divorce just like you always did in a smaller way 6 times before.
There is no such thing as dating in the scripture. Fathers and mothers being involved in a Biblical betrothal process is the pattern. We can continue to have the highest divorce rate or we can get back to the Biblical pattern.
Shalom
Here’s something to do if you like short lists for the Holidays;
1. Be good company.
Steve Nobel is against dating?
I missed that!
The best I can tell, the nuclear family is not biblical either.
The “slippery” slope to gay marriage was when people started marrying for love.
In ancient times, the purpose of marriage was for clan alliances and the expansion of tribe.
When straight couples started marrying to be happy, it was only a matter of time before the gays wanted to be happy as well.
Bo,
>>There is no such thing as dating in the scripture.
There is no such thing as soap in scripture.
Do you use soap?
(or electricity, cars, computers, English, Kleenex, glue, air travel … and 9,459,768 other things.)
Greg,
Dumb analogy. Total straw man argument. The soul of a human being, made in YHWH’s image, by YHWH for His glory and pleasure, and what nourishes it, instead of poisoning it, is not to be compared to inventions of man for his own convenience. Marriage was not invented by man to be used for his pleasure and self gratification. Plus there is soap in the Bible…you just do not know your Bible very well.
Jer 2:22 For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.
And no matter how much soap you use Greg, your iniquity in regard to homosexual marriage is not washed away. You need to repent.
Marrying for an emotion is the wrong way to go about it. Is divorce fine when the emotion is gone? (You would probably say yes.) Adam and Eve didn’t marry for an emotion. They married because they were designed for each other. Marriage was instituted by YHWH until “death do us part.” It is a covenant, not a “Boy I sure feel good when I am with you.” arrangement. The only times in scripture that we find anyone getting married for happiness or emotion, is shown to be a disaster.
You wrote:
“In ancient times, the purpose of marriage was for clan alliances and the expansion of tribe.”
Hmmm. Where did you read that in scripture? I can’t seem to find that in the Bible. I am betting that you have not bothered to study what the Bible says about marriage…because you do not care and want it to be what you want it to be so that you and all your homosexual friends can be happy in this life.
Lifelong heterosexual marriage was also instituted for raising up a “Godly seed.”
Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
It must be “male and female” to be a Biblical marriage. Homosexual partners were obviously not designed for each other. They cannot produce any seed…let alone “Godly seed.” But we already know that you just don’t get it, Greg.
You have been seduced by modern culture’s prophets. You care more about allowing homosexuals to be “happy” in this life instead of having true love for their eternal souls. The whole Bible screams that this life is not about our personal happiness, but about real love that has nothing to do with living by our emotions and sexual desires.
Human marriage was designed to paint the picture of the one true eternal marriage of Messiah and His bride. That marriage is not about personal happiness and self gratification. It is about self sacrificial love.
Messiah didn’t come down to earth and date us. He came and paid the bride price…a very high price. He didn’t smooch on us and try to get us to go to bed with Him. He waits for the bride’s father to give her to him in marriage. Those that are true Messianic believers are His bride and we are betrothed to him. We are not dating. We are not smooching. We are in a marriage covenant, bound to Him, waiting for his return…betrothed, not dating…committed, not playing around and gratifying ourselves.
When we do marriage and betrothal differently than the way Messiah is doing it with His bride, we are doing it wrong. Dating is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong. You are wrong.
You have been hypnotized and are fast asleep, Greg. I hope you snap out of it before it is too late.
Greg and those like-minded try to rationalize God in order to better fit him to human understanding and human compassion. Trying to serve both man and God, they end up serving a different man-made god. They are following a false spirit, and by God’s grace if they are elect, they will be delivered in truth. We don’t make God for ourselves so he can please us, we make ourselves for God so we can fellowship with him.
Greg,
We aren’t concerned with fixing the problems with soap, or any of the other things you’ve listed.
We desire to live holy lives that please the Lord, and wish to prepare our children to do the same.
Please stop being pugilistic and promoting crass ideas for argument’s sake.
Don’t worry Greg Allen! For what it’s worth, I like what you have to say.
I don’t think you’ve been “pugilistic” or “crass.” I do think that a lot of the other voices on this website are neurotic.
Can you believe in God and Jesus without retaining the 1st century middle-eastern cultural baggage? Can you be a christian without setting up the bible as a graven idol?
David,
What are you calling “1st century middle eastern cultural baggage”? Messiah called Genesis to Malachi the word of YHWH. (Mat. 4:4; John 17:17) Is it just the NT that you think is not inspired? Peter considered what Paul wrote as scripture. (2 Pet. 3:16) Paul says that if you do not agree that what he wrote are the commandments of YHWH that you are not to be listened to. (1 Cor 14:37-38)
Maybe you should actually read that dusty book on your shelf that is known as the Bible before you knock it. How do you know that our culture is not 21st century western pagan cultural baggage? How do you know that the practices commanded in the “New Testament” are not believing culture…holiness? What is your standard of judgment?
Shalom
Hey Bo,
Good points. I guess in a roundabout way you answered my questions…
So, I can’t disagree with peter and paul? Didn’t paul think peter was a bit of a hypocrite? Didn’t barnabas think paul was a bit of jerk (that’s an assumption based on their splitting up)?
David,
You are reading you own ideas into the text instead of accepting what it says. Peter was rebuked one time by Paul when he stopped eating with the gentiles because he was afraid of what the Jewish believers would think. It was not an ongoing thing and was resolved to the point that Peter considered Paul’s writings to be scripture. Barnabas and Paul split up because Paul did not want to take Mark with him since he had deserted them before. There is no mention that Paul and Barnabas judged each other as “jerks.” Years later, Paul considered Mark as profitable.
Paul and Peter and Barnabas and Mark did not disagree with each other on doctrine…at least in the end. They all made mistakes in action as they lived their lives, but the truth is the truth. You can disagree with Peter like Paul did, but you cannot disagree with what Peter wrote in the scripture. You can agree with either Paul or Barnabas on taking Mark, but you cannot disagree with the teachings of scripture.
You didn’t answer my questions. What is your standard of judgment as to right and wrong, holy and unholy, correct living and incorrect living? Is it the scripture or your own ideas? Is it the every word of YHWH or your culture’s?
How do you know that your culture’s ideas are right and the 1st century middle eastern culture’s ideas are wrong? How do you know that Paul is upholding culture instead of righteousness and holiness in his teachings? What is the standard that we are to judge these things by, if not the Bible? How do we know that you are not idolizing yourself and your ideas by rejecting Biblical revelation?
Shalom
David,
The issue is not whether you can be a real believer in Messiah while not believing everything in the Bible to be true for us. The issue is whether you can be a believer that is obedient to the will of YHWH by ignoring aspects of scripture. The issue is whether Messiah is really your master if you continually do things your way instead of His. The issue is that real faith produces real works.
Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
If we are real believers, we are created unto the good works that the Bible prescribes. Those works that were ordained before we came into the kingdom are still the rules of the kingdom. Will we continue to act like pagan gentiles that do not know YHWH or submit ourselves to His will that He has outlined in scripture?
Ephesians 4
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Will we continue to walk like the world and culture we live in or submit to YHWH’s word and culture? If we refuse the whole of scripture and just do the parts that we agree with, who is our real master? If this is the case we are our own lords and YHWH is not. Can we call ourselves real believers in Messiah if we have not repented of our ideas and accepted His? Where do you expect to find His words and ideas and rules for right living if not in the Bible?
Shalom
Ultimately, Bo, my understanding and my own standards are the judgment I use for determining right from wrong and just from unjust…
But before you castigate me, I would argue that you do the same. You’ve JUDGED the bible is inerrant and flawless. You’ve JUDGED that every word in it is correct and worthwhile.
You are the first and final word. That’s why God can hold you responsible, right? Because you are a fully cognizant, fully enfranchised entity who is not only capable of, but required to, judge all things…
There was a council of guys a 1600 years ago that did the same. They JUDGED that certain writings were worthy. They JUDGED that others weren’t.
Don’t I get the same benefit of the doubt as those guys did? And if not, why?
Do I believe in Jesus because of the bible tells me to, or do I believe in the bible because of my revelation of Jesus?
And the only point I had in highlighting those apostolic flaws, was to say that they were men. Just men. Just like me. Chief of sinner. Hypocrite (even if momentarily). Schismatic (even if just once).
How many more of their flaws weren’t recorded in scripture? The world will never know.
Anyway, why do I have to believe everything they wrote was right? Can’t I believe that the Jesus they proclaimed was real and true without believing they, themselves, were infallible?
David,
Did you trust a math book to tell you the truth concerning numbers and how to manipulate them properly? Why can you not trust a faith book to do the same in regards to how you live your life? A bunch of true math guys got together and collected the writings of mathematicians from ancient times and compiled it into books that can be trusted. Why cannot a bunch of true faith guys do the same regarding the true faith?
Those guys 1600 years ago were looking at the history of those that believed in Messiah before them. It was pretty easy to recognize what things had always been considered accurate writings concerning the faith. It still is.
The entire Jewish scripture was considered infallible by Messiah Himself. Is it right for you to disagree with Him?
The stories of His life and teachings in the 4 gospels are the only trustworthy historical accounts that we have. Are you going to believe in a Savior of your own making or the one that is revealed to us by those that walked with Him? Do you think that their testimony is false? If you think that they lied or were mistaken in a few spots, how do you know that you can trust them in the rest of their testimony?
There were 13 men that were hand-picked by our Messiah to spread the gospel and teach all nations everything that He said. Messiah gave them the authority and power to make judgments as to who and what was “in the faith” and who and what wasn’t. We have their authoritative writings preserved in the epistles. Are we going to pridefully think that we are over them or that we have the authority to set at naught their judgments concerning what Messiah empowered them to teach?
We have a few “New Testament” books that were not written by the apostles. These are the cream of the crop of fist century writings by devout believers that were leaders and/or brothers of Messiah. Do you think that you know the truth that Messiah wanted to pass on to subsequent believers better than these that He hand picked?
Are you going to read through all these writings that have been accepted as revelation from YHWH for 2000 years by those that were followers of Messiah and proclaim that you are smarter and holier than them? How do you know which passages are right and which are wrong?
By virtue of finding 95% or more of the Bible correct, you would be foolish to think that the remainder is wrong by virtue of your own personal likes and dislikes that have been informed by a pagan and immoral culture. Isn’t it much more likely that 2000 years of the multiplied millions of lives that have been transformed by accepting “every word of YHWH” is right and you are wrong? Isn’t it better and safer to trust the multitude of counselors instead of picking and choosing by your feeble understanding?
Are you less of a hypocrite than Peter was? Peter repented. Have you received direct authority from Messiah to be His new apostle to us? Are you sure that you are not listening to a voice, maybe a slithery voice, asking you, “Has YHWH really said…” concerning what the holy prophets and apostles received as revelation to us? Do you think that you are closer to Messiah and hear the Spirit more clearly than the writers of the scripture?
Do you know that the literal meaning of the word “heretic” is…chooser…one who picks and chooses what he will believe of scripture? Do you really want stand up and assert your right to choose?
If there are real flaws in the revelation of the scripture, you would do well to throw the whole Bible out because you will not be able to know for sure which parts are false and which are true. It would be dangerous to own such a book and base your life, even partially, upon it since it claims absolute authority and direct revelation from YHWH.
If it is wrong in parts, it is a deception in full. It asks you to believe it fully or not at all. Please be honest enough with yourself and YHWH to embrace it fully or throw it in the trash. If part of each of the courses of the meal that is set before you is poisonous, by all means do not pretend that you are only eating the healthy portions and leaving the deadly portions uneaten.
You need to be hot or cold concerning the Bible. Lukewarmness is not an option…or at least, not a desirable option.
I am hoping that you recognize all the allusions to scripture that I use above. If not, then trust me, you do not know enough scripture to be a judge as to its veracity and applicability in whole or in part.
Shalom
Bo,
Thanks so much for your response. I really appreciate your concern and convictions. I particularly liked the “slithery” voice. That was a nice touch.
I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone, nor the new “apostle,” nor anything of the like. I just think I’m living my life exactly like peter, paul, and all those creedal councils: I am sorting through a plethora of testimonies to try and find the true voice.
I also don’t think that I’m closer to God or hear his voice clearer…I’m just saying we’re all idiots. All of us (me included). And since we’re all idiots, I’ve got to figure it out myself.
The bible isn’t a text book (various proverbial verses aside). It’s a collection of people’s attempts to get to god and god’s attempts to get to us.
Thanks for listening
David,
We are all idiots in comparison to YHWH. We are not all idiots in comparison to each other in every way. Some of us are specially gifted. The writers of scripture were specially gifted to write what YHWH wanted us to know. Though they were all idiots in some ways, in their gifted way they were not. The same could be said of plumbers and unicycle riders in a far less serious way.
Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The issue is not whether the apostles sinned sometime in their lifetimes, it is whether they were commissioned, and empowered to fulfill that commission, by Messiah and His Spirit. Either they were divinely and miraculously empowered to do their job or the man that called Himself Messiah was a fraud…and just as much an idiot, actually more so, than you and I.
Revelation 4
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
If you think that we were all put on a planet with the goal of finding truth for ourselves, then your statements make sense. But if one thinks that YHWH designed us to His glory and for the purpose of His pleasure, then it is not about us…or us finding the truth somehow. If He created us to bring glory to Him, how can we if we do not have a direct revelation by Him to us? All of us going our own separate ways trying to find the truth with our idiotic blindfolds on brings no glory to YHWH.
John 17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
In a way you are right about the Bible not being a textbook, but it is the owners manual for the human life. We can try to operate this invention by our own logic or ideas, but the purpose of this very special invention will not be realized if we do. The Bible was not put together by men, but acknowledged by person after person after person and ultimately by large groups of people.
2 Timothy 2
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
These people are the ones that brought the word of life to us. That preserved it for thousands of years. To short circuit this by rejecting what has brought the truth to us is to abandon truth in the name of seeking it. This is idiotic.
2 Timothy 3
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The Bible is not “a collection of people’s attempts to get to god and god’s attempts to get to us.” That is an idea from pagan culture’s idea that we are searching for truth for ourselves. The Bible is the written general revelation to man of YHWH, Messiah and our purpose and how to accomplish it. It really cannot be only partially received. It claims for itself inspiration and authority. No rational argument can be made for picking and choosing from a meal that has been poisoned.
John 16
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
The promise was that the apostles would be led into all truth by the Spirit and that they were to teach us what we needed to know. (Are you going to argue against the very words of the one that you call Lord?) The “New Testament” is the compilation of this. If you cannot accept it, it is not the truth about Messiah and salvation that you are seeking. The Bible is the mode of transmission of this truth for us.
Romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Bible is clear that none of us seek after YHWH or His truth, but that He calls us and reveals Himself and the truth to us. Your search to “figure it out for yourself” is in vain according to the scripture. You need to accept the whole Bible or reject the whole thing to be intellectually honest with the claims of scripture. You need to do one or the other to be spiritually honest and loyal to your real master, whether it is Messiah or yourself.
Matthew 10
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Messiah is the one that told us to believe the apostles. They come into our houses and cities and lands through the Bible now. If you do not receive their words, He is not your lord…you still are. You have to choose either Him or yourself as master of your life. If you pick and choose what you will accept of what He said, personally as well as through His chosen emissaries, you have chosen against Him being your lord. When you decide what is right and wrong, you are the lord and savior to yourself. This is exactly what Adam did in the garden. He decided to make the decisions instead of subjecting himself to The LORD. At that moment idolatry was born and man became his own god. Do you really want to continue down that road? It is broad and slopes steeply at the end into a lake…of fire.
Maybe you have been sold a bill of goods about how the Bible was put together. Maybe you are young in the faith. Maybe you have good intentions. If all this is true of you, then you need to find a good book on how the cannon of scripture was decided upon. You need to read the Bible more. And you need to put those good intentions to work in believing what your Messsiah told you to believe about the scripture of His day and His chosen apostle’s…that they were given His authority to make disciples.
Disciples means taught ones…it does not mean seeking ones or questioning ones. It means ones that have bought into what the Messiah and His emissaries taught…word for word. No other kind of person is called a believer or a Christian by Messiah, His apostles, or the Bible.
These are just the facts. Please reconsider your idea about the Bible not being true and accurate.
Shalom
So, I gather that I’m going to hell… hmmm… so, in your opinion, what exactly are the requirements for being saved?
Confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in my heart that God raised him from the dead isn’t enough? How closely do I need to hold to your doctrinal interpretations?
David,
I did not assert that you are going to hell. I assert that to not accept everything in the apostolic writings by not believing and acting on what Messiah said through His chosen mouthpieces is not righteous and reasonable. It is not being what the apostles would call a Christian. It is hearing Messiah’s words without putting them into practice…building one’s house on the sand.
It goes like this:
Messiah is YHWH in the flesh and our Messiah and lord.
He is never wrong. He is the truth and cannot lie.
He called the “Old Testament” the word of YHWH and the scripture. He considered it inspired by the Holy Spirit and faithfully preserved. He declared that man is required to live by every word of YHWH.
He has all authority and power to delegate.
He delegated the apostles to go into all the world and teach the correct faith and practice.
He miraculously gifted them with the Holy Spirit to speak authoritatively in His name concerning the faith.
The “New Testament” is the apostles words concerning the faith to the whole world…inspired by the Holy Spirit and faithfully preserved…and thus YHWH’s word and the scripture also.
Messiah said that anyone that did not receive the apostles words concerning the faith would be judged more strictly than Sodom and Gomorrah.
To pick out Paul’s words concerning “Confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in my heart that God raised him from the dead” and not accept the rest of scripture is not truly believing and obeying Messiah.
To confess Messiah’s Lordship while not obeying Him concerning believing and applying the apostles doctrine in their entirety is either hypocrisy or deception or both.
How can you trust those few words you quoted from Paul and not believe the rest of his words? How do you know those are accurate and authoritative and others of his just his opinions? How do you know that the words you quoted are not just his opinions without YHWH’s authority behind them?
You will see below that many will confess Y’shua as Lord, but because of disobedience to the words of the Father and Son they will be told to depart from His presence in the end. Confession in and of itself will mean nothing without obedience to YHWH’s revealed will. Paul’s words that you quoted are true, but not the whole truth. Living by a bumper sticker snippet from scripture is not living by every word of YHWH as Y’shua said we were to do.
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (What is the revealed will of the Father if it is not what we call the “Old Testament”?)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Confession alone is not enough in the end. Confession is not just words but commitment to something. To confess Y’shua as lord is to relinquish your rights to decide the truth or right and wrong for yourself. It is the acceptance of every word inspired by YHWH as truth to be lived out despite what we have always thought or what our culture assumes.)
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. (We must not only confess Messiah’s lordship, but it must be seen to be real lordship by us obeying His words. He declared that the apostles would miraculously be given His words to speak.)
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (It is foolish to not obey the whole of scripture. It is not reasonable to pick and chose what we think is right and ignore the rest. It is prideful to think that we are smarter than YHWH and His divinely appointed mouthpieces.)
I am not asking you or anyone to follow my interpretations of the meaning of scripture. Messiah does ask for our true devotion evidenced by complete obedience to every word of YHWH, whether from the Father or the Son or their mouthpieces that they used to convey their words to us by the Holy Spirit.
We will be accountable in the end for accepting Messiah’s words that were spoken by voice or ink and paper through His Apostles and Prophets. What we call the Bible has always been recognized by Messiah’s followers from the beginning.
These believers preserved the words for us so that we could also know and obey the truth. The Bible was not put together by a group of guys 1600 years ago. It was attested to by all the churches and their leaders from the beginning. These people passed down the scriptures to the next and the next generations till now. It is what has always been considered the word of YHWH. If they would have not done this, you would have no sure idea about what the truth is.
For you to spit in the well that you drink out of by rejecting the parts that you do not like of scripture is foolish and insulting to those that have died to be sure you could have a copy of the truth in your hands. So from the death of Messiah and martyrdom of His apostles to the persecution of the reformers and Bible translators and all the righteous saints till now there is a testimony of what the truth is and all these testify against your prideful rejection the word of YHWH.
If we call ourselves Christians or believers, we are obliged to accept everything that Messiah considered scripture to be the truth for us whether it was in print at the time or not. For us it has been in print for nearly 2000 years.
Do you see that Messiah considered the Hebrew scriptures of His day to be the “word of YHWH”?
Do you see that He commissioned His apostles to be the mouthpieces of His words to us by revelation from the Holy Spirit?
Do you see that the “New Testament”is the record of those words and are just as much scripture as the words that were codified in the Hebrew scripture before?
Do you see the foolishness of not accepting and putting into practice every word from YHWH while thinking that you are safe or saved by calling Y’shua Lord?
Do you have evidence that the Bible is the wrong set of writings or that it has been fatally flawed in it’s transmission to us?
Do you think that YHWH is powerful enough to use flawed men to communicate His word to us and to preserve it throughout time?
Do you see that if you cannot trust every word of the Bible to be true and our rule of faith and practice that you cannot trust any of it?
Shalom
I guess I just have a more egalitarian faith. That the verse about “you have no need that anyone should teach you” applies as much to me as to to the people John was writing to.
I am (as I believe we all are) commissioned like the Bereans to ferret out the truth.
As to the logic of my belief, well, I think it’s more complex than true/untrue.
And we’ll just have to leave it at that, I guess.
David,
Acts 17
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Funny thing about those Bereans…they searched the SCRIPTURE to find out what was true. You on the other hand decide from your own frail mind what is suppoedly “true” in the scripture, picking out the verses that you like. So don’t deceive yourself.
James 1
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Isn’t it also a bit funny that those that had no need to be taught still had John teaching them through that very letter he wrote to them, and that one of the main things that he said over and over to those that needed no man to teach them was that they were to be obedient to YHWH’s commandments else they didn’t really know YHWH. He said that it was deception to think otherwise. (Where would that deception come from?) John was worried about these people being deceived by listening to themselves and rejecting the commandments of YHWH that are found in the scripture.
1 John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
How did Y’shua walk? 100% according to what was written in the scripture. He was the word made flesh. He said we ought to walk that way too.
Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
If you are a man of YHWH it is time to start acting like a man of YHWH and accept His written word…all of it.
2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
If you do not want to do this, then heed the warning:
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but /only/ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
I guess we will have to leave it at that.
Shalom