Dr. Brown talks more about the right and wrong use of the terms “heresy” and “different gospel,” answers your e-questions and calls, and then makes another exciting announcement. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: A heretic is one who denies the fundamentals of the faith and is therefore hell bound; not a brother or sister with whom we have differences!
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: If we would only be as zealous for the Truth, as we’re sometimes as zealous against error, we could change the world.
SPECIAL OFFER! THIS WEEK ONLY!
BIG NEWS! Dr. Brown will release a special print version of Authentic Fire: A Response to John MacArthur’s Strange Fire. This book will be sold only through AskDrBrown Ministries. Pre-order a signed copy of this exclusive print edition today for only $25 – Postage Paid! (expected release date: December 2013) (US Only)
Call 1-800-278-9978 or Order Online!
Other Resources:
I’m an open-minded, open-hearted liberal but Dr. Brown went over the line today.
Spaghetti with tomato soup sauce is heresy!
😉
Seriously, I really have appreciated Dr. Brown’s focus on Christian unity. I was raised in a fundamentalist church and am now a liberal Evangelical in a mainline denomination. As a church worker, I have worshiped with Pentecostals, Copts, Mar Thoma believers, Roman Catholics, Korean charismatics, Slavic, AME, Mennonites, Maronites, African Independent, Anglican, … and so many more.
I am witness to the fact that there are good, Jesus-loving Christians in all of them.
But tomato soup on spaghetti? That’s over the line!
I appreciate you willingness to discuss these issues but you seem to pick the worst/extreme positions/arguments of the other side (much like you say MacArthur did). I have read and listened to many well reasoned arguments on both sides since Strange Fire. Why not interact with the comments of someone like James White and make this discussion really valuable.
What about music made by Christians that is instrumental, having no words to it at all?
Does it so much matter what type of music it is whether rock, country, jazz, blues, or whatever?
I ordered some music because I thought it was worship music only to find out that it was all instrumental.
I returned it asking for a refund. I told them I thought I was buying worship music, but there were no words to it at all.
They said it was “soaking” music and I assumed they thought I should have known what that was.
It was advertised as soaking music, but I thought it was also advertised as worship music.
If it’s worship music, where is the distinction in the sounds? I knew not the meaning thereof, though I could make out different musical instuments by the sounds.
Now the Christian making the music may have been soaking and worshipping when they made the recording, but how is it worship music to me?
I got my refund and didn’t order any more soaking music.
Unless music is complete, utter chaos or noise, how can it have an evil effect, if there are no words to it at all?
Ray,
“soaking” music! I like that! It reminds me of that old Palmolive TV commercial. (I’m really dating myself!.)
As for me, I think music _style_ is completely subjective.
Speaking of dating myself — I’m from the rock and roll generation and, growing up, my church only allowed piano and organ. (with words or not)
Guitars and drums were of the devil! Especially drums! They had this theory that the syncopated beat came from African demon-filled traditions. (that theory strikes me as racist now.)
But, now it is “spirit filled” to have those same instruments.
I have absolutely no doubt that some of the debates we are having today (which I won’t name but we all know) will go the same way.
Churches will finally give-in to modern, enlightened understanding and forget what all the hub-bub was about.
Greg Allen,
You Wrote:
“Churches will finally give-in to modern, enlightened understanding and forget what all the hub-bub was about.”
And the great apostasy will have done its work. The churches will have all become lukewarm and the only true believes hopefully will have left.
Re 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Greg, your vision might not be too far away. It has already happened to many churches and denominations. It just might behoove those that see it happening already to come out from among them now. Church history is replete with examples of the righteous believers leaving lukewarm religion that has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof. Without holiness no one will see YHWH.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Greg, you want a false peace that resists holiness. The Biblical admonition is to pursue peace in a way that does not compromise holiness. Your way produces the unequally yoking of believers to nonbelievers. It tries to mix righteousness with unrighteousness…darkness with light…hot with cold. It causes Messiah to be nauseated and spew churches out of his mouth.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
The Laodicean age is upon us. Laos means people and Dike means justice. Literally it is about the peoples idea of justice…social justice, instead of YHWH’s righteousness and holiness. And if you cannot discern the difference between the two…you are probably hopelessly lost.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Ch. 7
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
So we can be received into the lukewarm Laodocean church system that is in league with Babylon the great harlot, or we can be received by YHWH by coming out of this corruption to pursue holiness in body and spirit. But we cannot do both.
Greg, you have made your choice. Maybe someone else will read these words and make a better choice.
Bo,
You can cut-and-paste all the scripture you want but differing on a moral issue that is very minor in the bible does not make me an apostate.
Ironically, YOU elevating a minor moral issue to the level of salvation puts you at risk of heresy.
It isn’t just taking-away from the gospel that is heretical, it is also adding to it. Adding “you must be anti-gay” to be saved would be a heresy.
If the gay issue really was an issue of apostasy, then I am sure Jesus would have have at least mentioned it. I think Jesus, in his eternal wisdom, understood it as a cultural issue. Paul, dealing with church issues, included it because it was cultural and pastoral issue — in those pre-science, primitive times.
OK. We disagree. Dr. Brown’s talk today, about Christian unity, should allow us to disagree without the specter of calling each other apostates.
Applying the 2000 year-old morality (and that’s the new stuff!) of the bible to modern times is something that we _ALL_ have to do.
You. Me. All Christians.
That we differ in this, doesn’t make either of us apostates.
I think you are tragically wrong on the gay issue (and I mean that in the most literal sense) but I don’t dis-fellowship you for it.
Greg Allen,
The problem is that Paul said that homosexuals will have no inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. This is not a minor issue or a cultural issue. Murdering unborn children is not minor either.
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Greg, you are so wrong and so blind that it is baffling. You have said that you (liberals) take the scripture more seriously than conservatives. Everybody but you can see that your statement is absurd when they simply read what scripture says.
Shall not inherit means shall not inherit. Your stance helps people to forfeit their right to inherit the kingdom of YHWH. Heretical doctrine on this issue is spelled out quite well in scripture…and it is not me that is in danger here.
Greg Allen,
You wrote:
“Ironically, YOU elevating a minor moral issue”
There is no such thing as a minor moral issue.
You wrote:
“If the gay issue really was an issue of apostasy, then I am sure Jesus would have have at least mentioned it. I think Jesus, in his eternal wisdom, understood it as a cultural issue. Paul, dealing with church issues, included it because it was cultural and pastoral issue — in those pre-science, primitive times.”
You take your so-called science more seriously than scripture. Allow me to re-post from another thread:
‘Greg Allen,
You Wrote:
“I think we liberals tend to take the text of the bible more seriously. I think conservatives take correct doctrine and theological purity more seriously.”
You also wrote:
“But homosexuality is not a “core” issue of the bible. It’s barely mentioned. Jesus doesn’t talk about it all all.”
Hmmm?…So you do not take the the text of the Bible seriously unless a certain subject is mentioned more than 6 or 8 times and then only if Messiah spoke about it directly. Me thinks that the one that takes the Bible more seriously is the one that accepts the straight forward statements against homosexuality instead of looking for excuses to relegate the statements to side issues.
And for that matter Y’Shua did talk about it. He said that “YHWH made them male and female” and “the two shall be one flesh” in regards to marriage. There is no need to speak directly of an aberration when the absolute is expressed.
You might want to read the above a couple of times until it sinks in. To take the text of the Bible more seriously one must pay attention to the details and accept all of what is written. The one whose doctrine accounts for the details in scripture is the one that takes the Bible more seriously.
It is past time to wake up.’-Bo http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2013/10/24/thou-shalt-or-thou-shalt-not-prosper/#comment-477419
We must deny ourselves as Jesus taught us. Some people we might not be able to help for they want whatever they want, while heaven is dead set against those things and isn’t going to change.
Do they really think they can persuade heaven to exchange the truth for lies?
They’re being used by Satan, are they not?
Concerning heresies, I’ve heard that there are some things people might believe (while here, I assume) that will not keep them out of heaven, while there are some things people might believe that will keep them out of heaven.
Let’s consider if there are people in heaven that believe anything weird. For the most part, I would say “no”, though I suppose the Lord may be instructing them in many things.
The world is perverted with the idea that we can reckon God to what we think is good and right. We want to make excuses and justify sin or falsehood to him. God knows who are his. Personally, I reject what man thinks is righteous for what God knows is righteous. Knowing God, it is quite easy to discern what is righteous to God over what is righteous to man. I don’t know anyone around me who seems to feel this same way. Everyone else seems to live for the world rather than for God.