Dr. Brown Shares His Concerns Before Pastor MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference and an Appeal for the Real Work of the Spirit

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Dr. Brown will share quotes from Pastor MacArthur and speakers at the Strange Fire conference (which starts, tomorrow, October 16th), raising concerns about their approach and pointing to the Scriptures for an understanding of the work of the Spirit today. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.

 

Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Let us be determined to ground our lives in the Word of God, to exalt Jesus with all that is within us, and to ask for the fullness of the Spirit in our lives to be more effective witnesses.

 

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Jesus said if you ask for bread your Father will not give you a stone; say, “Lord I ask for the fullness of Your Spirit in my life!”

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Other Resources:

What Does Real Revival Look Like?

What Is the Holy Spirit Doing in the Earth Today?

Pastor John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference: Something Helpful or Something Harmful?

48 Comments
  1. I was listening to MacArthur on the radio 15 years or so ago. He point blankly said that speaking in tongues was of the devil. I remember voicing out loud to my wife and children, “He just blasphemed against the Holy Spirit.”

    I remember bringing this up a few years ago on Line of Fire and being questioned pretty rigorously by Dr. Brown if I was saying that MacArthur was damned to hell.

    Now it is a huge deal to Dr. Brown.

    So I ask you Dr. Brown…Has MacArthur blasphemed the Holy Spirit? Is he damned to Hell? Is he a false teacher?

    Shalom

  2. Whether charismatic gifts are for today is up to God. However, if those gifts are for today, they are subservient to Christ. What matters is Christ and Him crucified. One Christian said to me “tongues are better than salvation”. Another Christian said to me “if you don’t speak in tongues you are not a child of God”. If charismatic gifts are for today, praise God. However those gifts should never be made into an idol.

  3. Thanks Dr B for this (and the previous) programmes on this issue. It is important, as the Pentecostal/Charismatic believers constitute a large and growing part of the church. It’s not nice to be slated and maligned in a way that differs little from the Dawkins-lovin’ crowd of angry internet atheists.

    BTW: Just to remind folks that Dr B did not start the controversy — John MacArthur promoted the conference with combative and accusatory videos, blog posts and articles, some written by ‘Grace to You’ acolytes. (I appreciate having an excuse to use that word today! I would appreciate a show which allows me to use the word verisimilitude. Could you arrange this?)

  4. I just want to note a little irony here.

    John MacArthur is intolerant of Dr. Brown’s form of Christianity in the same way that Dr. Brown is intolerant of my form of Christianity.

    I, in contrast, doubt neither MacArthur’s nor Brown’s Christianity.

    Don’t know what that means.

    But, it seems worth noting.

  5. Certainly John MacArthur has gone overboard. But maybe this is a wake up call to some Charismatic leaders.
    I have seen many abuses as a Charismatic and it seems that some unbelievers have more discernment then believers.
    False prophecies, false visions, emotionalism, celebrity figures held up as untouchables…..no accountability.
    I believe we all need to reevaluate and see what is truly of God and what is flesh. It has brought a lot of reproach to Christianity.

  6. Whether charismatic gifts are for today is up to God. However, if those gifts are for today, they are subservient to Christ. What matters is Christ and Him crucified. One Christian said to me “tongues are better than salvation”. Another Christian said to me “if you don’t speak in tongues you are not a child of God”. If charismatic gifts are for today, praise God. However those gifts should never be made into an idol.

  7. I totally agree that John MacArthur is speaking in ignorance. God did not make it that easy to do an “unforgivable sin”.
    That being said, his words are shocking.

  8. Dr. Brown,

    Do you think that the Pharisees were speaking in ignorance? How is MacArthur any less one that says he sees than they were? How is he less in the know than they? Do you think that MacArthur thinks that he is in ignorance?

    I do not say that he is damned to hell, but he is still guilty of sin in this area.

    Shalom

  9. I can’t answer for Dr. Brown. But I don’t believe the Pharisees spoke in ignorance. I think they knew in their hearts that what Jesus said was true but did not want to lose their positions so they purposely lied about Him and sought to shut Him up any way they could.

  10. Seems important to me to be aware of those who are in effect saying, “Them bad, us good. Danger there, safe here. They wrong, us right.”

    “Don’t follow them, Follow me?”

  11. If the movement contradicts Isaiah 11:2 John 14:26 Galatians 6:33-251 cor 12 by the leaders any way i will haft to question it. there are 5 offices 7 eyes 9 fruits all in unity and to the exaltation in glory of GOD the father and the Lord Jesus Christ. all this describes the Pentecost of acts 2

  12. Ray,

    >>Seems important to me to be aware of those who are in effect saying, “Them bad, us good. Danger there, safe here. They wrong, us right.”

    Well said.

    I’ve been preaching that same message, here, but on other topics. Topics that are much more minor in the scriptures, I might add. And some people here have condemned me to hell for it.

    We can have a unified body of Christ and have honest disagreements on these issues.

    I was raised in a very conservative little church who were intolerant of BOTH gays and charismatics.

  13. Bo,

    While I don’t affirm what you say about John MacArthur, I see your logic in it.

    Since you are absolutely convinced that Pentecostalism is of the Holy Spirit, what you say makes since.

    But, consider a couple of things —

    Are you sure MacArthur said tongues was of the devil? That’s a pretty serious charge! A 15 year old memory can be faded.

    Be aware that the “can never be forgiven” phrase is one of the hard passages of the bible since it seemingly contradicts other more central doctrines — specifically the power of Jesus’ work on the cross. It’s not good practice to judge others on verses that are very hard to interpret.

    Lastly, don’t return intolerance with intolerance.

    You can believe, with confidence, that you are right about tongues and MacArthur is wrong (I would share this belief with you) while not condemning him to hell. Leave that to God.

  14. Bo,

    I apologize. I missed this line of yours

    >>I do not say that he is damned to hell, but he is still guilty of sin in this area.

    But, when you accuse someone of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, my mined (others too, I’m sure) immediately goes to
    “whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” (Mark 3)

  15. Greg,

    What exactly would make someone a false teacher? It seems to me that if promoting murder and sexual immorality does not qualify someone nothing does. But rather that face the sins you are committing you pretend to be a martyr instead.

    Doug

  16. The key difference I see with John MacArthur is that he did not make his proclamation after being confronted with an actual miracle. His criticism is against a group which contains both good and bad. Unfortunately he fails to differentiate.

  17. Brother Mike,

    As I listened to several of the “Strange Fire” clips on John MacArthur’s website, I found myself a bit perplexed at his justification of being a cessationist, while at the same time he (and R.C. Sproul) boast in adhering to sola scriptura – an oxymoron indeed!

  18. Hello Dr. Brown,

    Thank you for your program and your labors for the Kingdom.

    Your parable around the 56:00 mark, about someone whose life gets changed at a Pentecostal church, gets to the heart of the debate. The Reformed Tradition finds the Holy Spirit in the correct proclamation of the Gospel and biblical accurate worship, while the Pentecostal/Charismatic tradition finds the Holy Spirit in the experiences of changed lives for Jesus and emotional expressions during worship. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive (the Reformed Tradition is very concerned about sanctification, while Pentecostals affirm inerrancy), however it is an issue of focus.

    Your parable, however, does concern me. Instead of a Pentecostal church, how about a Roman Catholic church? A liberal Congregational church? A Mormon church? A Jehovah Witness church? There are people who have had “changed lives” in the name of Jesus in churches that at best preach a mutilated Gospel, or at worst a heretical one.

    In Christ,
    Douglas Aldrich

  19. Great questions Bo

    I think along the same path of logic.

    MacArthur I truly doubt is speakign out of ignorance, because he is well studied, has commentaries he has written and is rewpected in the body.
    Im sur ehe has thoroly reserached the issue… and his conclusion is “what the Charmatics call working of the Spirit is of the Devil”

    To me it is extremely similiar to the Pharisees. EXTREMELY similiar.

    And I am not a MacArthur hater & I am not a charismatic per say… But I can not let my respect for the man… cloud my judgement and use ignorance to excuse his claims.

  20. The Pharisees were concerned about all the people following and going after Christ. Therefore they sought to put him to death and in the process they justified their actions by calling his work the work of Satan.

    John MacArthur’s overall goal is to bring correction to the body. He desires, unlike the Pharisees, for all people to come to Christ. Doubtless John MacArthur and Michael Brown would both rejoice in the salvation of even one sinner and would ascribe their repentance to the Lord.

    How is it even being contemplated whether John MacArthur is committing the unforgivable sin? Why is that even entering into your hearts?

  21. Rather than spending time listening to what is or may be wrong with a movement within the Church, I would rather spend time on what is right.

    I would much rather be led to right fire than to hear about strange fire.

    The Bible is full of the fire, the compassion of God, the love of God, that which will consume all error, purge out all iniquites, and expose all darkness, giving us love, light, and righteousness instead.

    I’m looking at one verse right now. Psalm 56:9, and what it tells me about God is that he is as a loving father to those who earnestly seek him. In fact, he is a loving Father to his children.

    He hears their cries. He moves toward them at the sound of their distress when their voice is toward him because they look to him for help and deliverence, and these things they know, whosoever has indeed been found by him in their troubles or distress. He’s proved himself to them, and they know it to be so. Knowing that God is for what is best for them, they come to him.

    Those that are enemies of God flee from him, for God is so much greater than them all. They have no strength against him, therefore they turn back.
    They flee for they can not stand in his presence.

    It’s all right there in one short verse of scripture, and there’s so much more.

  22. What is sad is that if McArthur had instead had a conference in which he showed the extremes of Charismatics while also taking care to show that these were not the majority of Charismatics and give specific examples of Charismatic leaders who were doing things right, then this conference could be beneficial and timely. Unfortunately, he instead chose to paint with a broad brush and act as if the abuses of the gifts were characteristic of all Charismatic leaders. What could have been a good opportunity as squandered by over-generalization and creating a caricature of the Charismatic movement to promote his cessationist views. That is sad that he wasted an opportunity for unity and needed teaching by going overboard.

  23. Jonathan S,

    It appears that his over-generalization has been intentional because he is virtually anti-Charismatic altogether. He, at times, appears to be a clear thinker, so it is hard to believe that he could not endorse any Charismatic leader at all, whether it be COG, AOG, or Non-Denominational. Pastor MacArthur has not done so because he knows that any endorsement would open the door to individuals seeking for themselves and possibly discovering a genuine attribute of the Spirit that they would not have experienced under his ministry. A blatant refusal to speak to any leaders about this subject matter only indicates that he is hardened towards his pathway and is not open to the possibility of the operation of the gifts of the Spirit in this generation. I know that those are strong words, however his exaggerated negative comments coupled with his refusal to dialogue with any leaders only brings me to that conclusion.

  24. I dont know how many have watched the conference… but some gross generalization have happen…. BUT a lot of truth has been said also….

    Ppl are scriptually calling aout teachers in error by name. I can not recall a platform this big to address the major erros of Word OF Faith movement, or fasle porphets, & prosperity gospels.

    YEs DR. BROWN ADDRESSES these issue…. but lets be hoenst.. he is one of teh few that do. Most are so concerned with “throwin baby out with Bath water” … that they jus leave the baby in flithy bath water that is almost becoming a toxic/hazardous slush in the tub.

    Some good is coming from this event

  25. Doug,
    >>What exactly would make someone a false teacher? It seems to me that if promoting murder and sexual immorality does not qualify someone nothing does.

    Just declaring it “murder” and “sexual immorality” doesn’t make it so.

    Furthermore, I don’t promote either abortion or gay partnerships. I certainly don’t do it, myself. But, I do respect others who see the issue differently than you do.

    And, this is where it comes back to today’s issue. We, in the church, are violating the clear biblical command for church unity when we do not respect our brothers and sisters who see issues differently than us. This certainly seems like the case with John MacAuthur. He thinks you are Pentacostals are wrong. But, he can’t just let you work it out for yourselves.

  26. Ray,

    >>I would much rather be led to right fire than to hear about strange fire.

    Nicely said!

    This issue is personally close to my heart. I was raised in a highly conservative fundamentalist church where Pentecostalism was condemned.

    Then, I went to a Bible school where I had to sign an agreement that I wouldn’t speak tongues in the dorm!

    I’m not a charismatic, myself, but it was clear to me that this was just wrong. So, I wrote a letter to the Dean explaining how I thought this was unbiblical and divisive of the body.

    And, to their credit and my surprise, they ended the policy.

    And here is what bugs guys like Doug…

    I can draw a straight line from that event to my eventual toleration of gay Christians.

  27. Can someone explain to me why they think it is ok to pray in tongues in public with no interpreter? I’m not Pentecostal or Charismatic as denominations only divide the Body. It should have never been. I do pray in tongues and it is ok if you don’t.

    Christ and Him Crucified.

    Karl

  28. Greg Allen,

    Just because you can draw a straight line between sticking up for the Biblical doctrine of speaking in tongues and the anti-Biblical doctrines homosexuality and abortion does not make it a line that is supposed to be drawn. There is a difference between tolerating something that the scripture supports and tolerating something that it condemns.

    The problem with tolerating something that is obviously and forthrightly condemns is that it puts us in the place of causing brothers to stumble into and continue in sin. The deceitfulness of sin ruins lives and can lead to loss of salvation. Abortion/murder and Homosexuality are not just poor decisions, they are sins that deserve the death penalty, according to scripture…and if persisted in will disqualify the offenders from the kingdom of heaven.

    Speaking in tongues is straightforwardly commanded not to be forbiden. Homosexuality is straightforwardly forbidden for a believer.

    1Corinthans 14
    39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.

    1 Corinthians 6
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
    10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    It seems that the line that you think that you have drawn straight between tolerance of speaking in tongues and homosexuality is not straight at all…if the Bible is one’s basis. Do you think that you will be held guiltless for nicely allowing your fellow man to lose his inheritance in the kingdom of heaven?

    Romans 1
    32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

    Time to wake up.

  29. Greg Allen,

    OOOPS…WOWO is me. It was a temporary name that I was using to contact lofradio for other reasons. It seems that I forgot to update my name required field.

  30. ops….

    jus found about about the issue….

    Bo may have a alias… but he isnt Dan1el… instead.. I think he is Greg Allen & still Peter.

    Sorry about saying you were Dan1el in hindsight of the issue.

  31. Seems “Dr.” Brown is misunderstanding what the Scriptures proclaim as “power of the Spirit” and what the charismatics & pentecostals label “baptism of the Spirit.” 1st, there is nowhere in the Scriptures that tell us that the gift of tongues is for EVERY believer like the charismatics and pentecostals say. No more than the gift of prophecy(which Paul said was more valuable than tongues), gift of healing, gift of faith, gift of knowledge, gift of evangelism, etc. are. The Spirit is the One who distributes His gifts, His ministries, His workings to each within His church for the glory of Christ. The gibberish within the pentecostal & charismatic churches is far from Biblical tongues. Nevermind the fact that most of it is done by women who are commanded to be silent within the local corporate meeting, and infrequently “interpretated”. Nevermind the fact that it is to be done by at most 3 in a meeting and each MUST be interpreted. Nevermind the fact that Paul spoke in tongues more than “they all” yet desired that prophecy(teaching) would be top priority in the meetings. It isn’t the cessationists that are causing the division, it is those who proclaim a working of the Spirit while disregarding the explicit commands in Scripture. For that, they do blaspheme. We are subject to the Spirit and He does not contradict His written word.

  32. Ty,

    I was trying to get a message through to lofradio as it seemed a couple of other people’s messages were not being noticed and that the “contact us” was not working…at least for me. Using a new name automatically goes to moderation and must be read before it is put up…I think. My last resort seem to have worked. Though, even as we speak it appears that another message of mine has not been noticed. They must be really busy.

    I hold nothing against Dan1el. He is young and zealous. He thinks that he is preventing others from falling into false doctrine. He does misrepresent my view and will not listen no matter how many times I clarify or show him how his logic and use of scripture is not correct.

    I hold nothing against Greg Allen either. He does need to just accept what scripture actually says though. His stance on homosexuality and abortion can only encourage sin and the loss of inheritance in the kingdom.

    The scripture does say what it means and mean what it says…whether we call ourselves (or someone else call us) fund-a-mentalist$ :), crazymatics/cruis-a-matics :), messi-antics :), or cath-aholics :), pent up costals :), or Pajamish (Penticostal-Jewish-Amish) like myself…(no animosity intended toward any group.) We need to take the scripture more seriously and ourselves a little less seriously, I’m affraid.

    Shalom

  33. Dr. Brown,

    A comment and a question. Regarding Keener’s book, his philosophical arguments were robust, his documentation of miracles not so much. With all respect to Dr. Keener, After reading all but a small part of Volume II, it is my take that Keener is hammering his audience with quantity of claims rather than quality. I would rather have seen testimonies in the legal tradition from multiple reliable witnesses than largely second hand accounts even when they involve people (and relatives ) that Keener holds in high regard. I would have preferred to see documentation from medical experts or CT scans from before and after the cure. While I recognize that much of this occurs in the third world,is not the lack of excellent objective medical documentation disturbing in light of the thousands (Millions?)of miracle claims? And why do you think that these claims are not more common in the west where documentation would be much more accessible? People of faith have taken a beating by the pseudo-intellectuals like Dawkins. That is why they latch on to things such as the Shroud of Turin with such vigor, they are hungry for evidence to beat down the new atheists. Would not well documented cures do that?

    Now the question. John Macarthur is considered by many top scholars (e.g. Geisler) to be one of the great Bible expositors. Now it is my understanding that while a given text transmits objective propositional truth, The Lord speaks to us and shows us associations, implications and applications that may not be obvious at first blush. It seems likely that it is the Holy Spirit that allows MacArthur to extract so much from the Scriptures. I suspect when I have heard some of your teachings that the same can be said of you. How is it that you and MacArthur can both “hear” from the Holy Spirit and come to such different conclusions? Opposites both can’t be true.

  34. Concerning documentation of miracles…many miracles were done and witnessed by hundreds, if not thousands in Messiah’s day. Some people still refused to believe that Y’shua was YHWH’s son and our Messiah. Some said that the miracles were performed by the power of the devil. Some, undoubtedly refused to believe their very own eyes. We walk by faith and not by sight.

    Physical proof is never really what it takes to be convinced of anything. An open heart and a revelation are absolutely necessary…tangible proof or not.

    We do tend to see what we believe more than we believe what we see. There is the tendency to believe what we want to believe. When we are heavily invested in a false “truth” it takes a miracle in our hearts more than a miracle before our eyes or a logical, reasonable argument to bring light to our understanding.

    We see what we look for. I never new there were so many Chevy Astro minivans in the world until I was looking to buy one. We see what we look for. We are blind to what we see no value in. Our doctrine and our worldview prove to us what is real and right more than any amount of objective observation or pragmatic principle. We cannot get outside ourselves, much if at all, to see what really is the truth. Without a revelation on the inside we will miss the forest for the trees more times than not.

    There were many great theologians during Y’shua’s day. They did not need the Holy Spirit to come up with compelling arguments from the scripture. (Paul was one that got a powerful revelation.) Whether or not MacArthur is a great theologian proves nothing as to his salvation or his walk with YHWH or his being filled with the Spirit or not.

    I think it was CS Lewis that said something to the effect that there are three things that will surprise us in heaven…those that are there that we thought wouldn’t be, those that are not there that we thought would be, and that we are there.

    1 Corinthians 1
    26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    I actually fear for the educated, the brilliant, the wealthy and the powerful. The eye of a needle is not very big. The only way to get through is to be pulled through while all of our accomplishments, and other things we trust in, are being painfully scraped off as we are stretched and squeezed almost, if not completely, to nothingness. Big people just do not make it through.

    Shalom

  35. Concerning documentation of miracles…many miracles were done and witnessed by hundreds, if not thousands in Messiah’s day. Some people still refused to believe that Y’shua was YHWH’s son and our Messiah. Some said that the miracles were performed by the power of the devil. Some, undoubtedly refused to believe their very own eyes. We walk by faith and not by sight.

    Physical proof is never really what it takes to be convinced of anything. An open heart and a revelation are absolutely necessary…tangible proof or not.

    We do tend to see what we believe more than we believe what we see. There is the tendency to believe what we want to believe. When we are heavily invested in a false “truth” it takes a miracle in our hearts more than a miracle before our eyes or a logical, reasonable argument to bring light to our understanding.

    We see what we look for. I never new there were so many Chevy Astro minivans in the world until I was looking to buy one. We see what we look for. We are blind to what we see no value in. Our doctrine and our worldview prove to us what is real and right more than any amount of objective observation or pragmatic principle. We cannot get outside ourselves, much if at all, to see what really is the truth. Without a revelation on the inside we will miss the forest for the trees more times than not.

    There were many great theologians during Y’shua’s day. They did not need the Holy Spirit to come up with compelling arguments from the scripture. (Paul was one that got a powerful revelation.) Whether or not MacArthur is a great theologian proves nothing as to his salvation or his walk with YHWH or his being filled with the Spirit or not.

    I think it was CS Lewis that said something to the effect that there are three things that will surprise us in heaven…those that are there that we thought wouldn’t be, those that are not there that we thought would be, and that we are there.

    1 Corinthians 1
    26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    I actually fear for the educated, the brilliant, the wealthy and the powerful. The eye of a needle is not very big. The only way to get through is to be pulled through while all of our accomplishments, and other things we trust in, are being painfully scraped off as we are stretched and squeezed almost, if not completely, to nothingness. Big people just do not make it through.

    Shalom

  36. [Dr. Brown, here’s something I found on the web. The Lord bless you and your great ministry.]

    Dispensational pretribulational rapturism has done as much as anything in the past two centuries to create needless dissension among Bible believers. MacArthur is a leader in all this. For some insights into his latter-day school of interpretation, Google “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” and “Pretrib Rapture Stealth.” Those without sin can cast the first stone!

  37. Greetings Dr Michael Brown. I listened to your line of fire broadcast on John Mac claims towards the Chrismatic and Pentecostal culture. I am not the best writer and don’t have all the wisdom in the world when articulating certain doctrinal view points, but I want to share some info I discovered since I have been introduced to the doctrine of Calvinism. I currently fellowship at AG church, which you are aware has strong Pentecostal roots. Since the doctrine of Calvinism became reality through a family member it caused great division among the family. We all went to the same AG church until the split due the TULIP theology. I dealt with confusion for about two years until God used you and your debates with Dr James White. That being said discovered in my debates and research on most church goers who hold to the reform theology tend to be cessentionlist with the exception of John Piper and so on. This conversation all started with a Calvinist who started denying the Gifts of tongues after he operated in that gifting. I listened to John Mac expo on tongues and discovered why he and many other reformist deny the gifts of Spirit today. It all hangs on one passage of scriptures that I believe they interpret wrongly 1 Cor 13:8-12. It is reported by the reformist and emphasize that tongues and prophecy has ended in the apostolic age because the perfect has arrived. What is the perfect the Bible. That which is perfect is not interpretated to be Jesus himself and his return, but the canonization of scriptures the bible. Doing some research Baptist, Calvinist, reformist before Azusa Street revival this verse was not interpreted as the perfect being the bible that has come, but Jesus, After Azusa street revival where the Pentecostal denionmination church was birth that verse was then interpretated as bible being perfect that has come.

  38. There will be a great falling away first:

    2 Thessalonians 2
    King James Version (KJV)

    “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

    We are going to see the Coming of the LORD soon and very soon, occupy until He comes, and stand on the Word of God, not on men…like John MacArthur or any man that will justify their own understandings and erroneous teachings. If it is of God, it will stand, but if not, we’ll see in due time.

    IT IS INEVITABLE THAT THERE WILL BE “CHRISTIANS” MAKING LINES OF DEMARCATIONS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF GOD…THIS IS THE BREAKING OR FALLING AWAY, THE APOSTASIA FROM TRUTH, FROM THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.

  39. Howdy everyone,

    I haven’t been around much lately, but it seems to me that anyone that rejects that the gifts of the Spirit are still in operation has a new “New Testament.” I’m just wondering what books are in this new thing. 1st and 2nd Calvin, John Mac (instead of John Mark), Southern Baptist faith and message, Post Christian Seminary 101, etc. Well you get my drift.

  40. It has just occurred to my lightning-fast brain that there is a certain, horrible, ironic, contradiction in Mac Arthur’s bold all-encompassing declaration.

    He is emphatic that apostolic and prophetic authority are no longer with us, but he speaks as if he is an apostle or prophet concerning the subject. He actually boldly speaks against what the apostles and prophets have declared in scripture. Can he have his cake and eat it too? Can he do it at the expense of the wheat that is among the tares that he is tearing up?

    Shalom

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