[Download MP3] Many believers today feel it is not their right to judge other believers, and if someone says they love the Lord, no matter they live, we are not to “judge” them. What does the Word say? Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Let us pray for the rising number of atheists. Let us pray for divine encounters, for humility on their part to meet God while they have breath.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Life will triumph over death. Light will triumph over darkness. God wants that triumph to come through you and through me.
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Other Resources:
Can We Preach the Gospel Without Talking About Sin? (And further thoughts on bullying and anti-gay violence)
Does God Still Judge Today? And, Does God Still See His People’s Sins?
How to Overcome Sin
GREAT SHOW…
I talk about this subject in detail with friends and family. They are all on the side of “Do not Judge”
If you see another beleiver commiting sin… true mercy & compassion is to address it, tell him it is wrong to help him corrected it.
I heard a great quote from a pastor at Bethel church:
If u see a person in a burning house…You do not look in the window and say “Well.. they look happy” and leave them there. U SHOULD TRY TO GET THEM OUT”
Anyhow great show.
One last thing on “are all sins the same”
Another example can be seen, in Leviticus (i think). Where the punishments for various sins differ. Some are to be put to death, while others have different punishment. If they were all viewed the same, all punishment would be the same.
God bless
I agree with Dr. Brown that sin is weighted.
All sin makes us fall short of the glory of God but not all sin is equal.
That’s why I don’t condemn the gays.
Jesus spoke often about greed. Very often. He said nothing about homosexuality.
Why? Because, I believe, Jesus understood that being gay doesn’t harm anybody. Greed hurts people.
But, the Evangelical church does not mirror the values of Jesus.
We focus heavily on the gays and rarely, if ever, condemn greed.
Ty,
If you are like virtually every Christian I know, you are selective in who you judge.
Take gluttony. Do you call out gluttons the way you would call out, let’s say, an adulterer?
If not, on what biblical basis do you make that call?
Let us not forget who said: Matt18:15
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone….But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you…If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”
Just as one should GO and SIN no more, we also to judge inside the family–Paul said that somewhere. Oh yeh, that was Messiah telling people to cast out the committed sinner as a gentile or IRS person. That was a little humour
Greg,
The bible says to put sexually immoral people (such as those involved in homosexual sin) out of the church if they do not repent. It does not mention doing the same thing to people guilty of gluttony. That’s why people judge those two things differently. But you probably already knew that and just chose to ignore it.
Doug
Greg Allen,
Homosexuality hurts everybody…as does other forms of fornication. It also is a sin against one’s own body which is supposed to be YHWH’s temple. And YHWH will destroy those that destroy His temple.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
The alarm clock is going off…it is time to wake up!
Greg,
Hold on! I do not know what your issue is… but how can you judge me as “every chritian you know” when I do not really know me?
To address your issue… with your own words…”
“All sin makes us fall short of the glory of God but not all sin is equal”
So… I would not call gluttony out in the same manner as I would an adutler. Different methods for different things. Seems like common sense.
For a gluttony, I would address it on the context of health concerns and that an excess of anythign is not good for you. God wants you to value your temple..etc.
For an adulterer, I would use more scripture and express to the person how it is wrong. How it is hurting everyone around them. Etc.
Now that I have answered you sterotypically question… Y would u assume that? U do not even know my last name, but feel like you know my heart? LEt me open up to you about real situations…
Have you ever had to confront a family member about a drug habit.. no not weed, but the cocaine? Well I have….
Have you ever had to talk to a person sellign drugs to feed there family… and explain that even tho it provides a means, it is wrong? Well I have.
Or have a friend that is an adulterer, and confront the issue with them? Bingo… I have also
The point is… do not assume I am just typign and not living this. From all accords it seems like you are the type of person that would let one of the ppl die from drug overdose, ruin a whole community casue of adultery, just because I do not wanna judge… they all appear to be happy!
Go look in the mirror before you cast stones. When you on your missionary trip (and u never told Dr. Brown where or when you was on one), did you tell the ppl “keep on worshipping the sun…you aren’t hurting anyone” or did you address their wrongs? If you addresses their sins, but not the sins of another then you are a hypocitic.
one more statement…. Why does every convo led back to homosexuality!!
The topic of the show was sin… SIN… all types of sins. And the issue of judging.
If you can help a person live right… pls do… do not let the “I shouldnt judge” stop you from revealing to another person teh error in there ways… In regards to all sin.
God Bless
one more thing…
Greg,
Sorry. I miss read your post. I read it as
“you are like every Christian I know, selective about who you judge”
I missed the “IF” at the beginning. And felt as it you was attacking me. My humble apoligies. Must of mis-read due to being tired…. long day at work, Bible study at night, and back to work today.
Anyhow, sorry about my tone in my post.
Doug
But the question is — is homosexuality a universal sin or just a sin in that context?
I think the legal (and theological) distinction is “malum in se” vs. “malum prohibitum”.
I believe there is a reason that Jesus never condemned homosexuality — it’s because, in his eternal wisdom, he knew that homosexuality was not malum in se.
Paul, on the other hand was concerned with local church issues. In the context of the tribal family structure, homosexuality had no place.
No offense taken Ty.
I try to keep my tone respectful on these discussion forums but I don’t always succeed! So, I am not one to take offense easily.
Here is how I see it — even if we disagree about the morality of homosexuality, can’t we agree that it is a very minor issue in the bible? It’s just a few verses.
Our pastors preached about greed last Sunday and said that one in seven verses in Luke are about greed/wealth/money.
I haven’t counted, myself, but we all know that there are hundreds and hundreds of bible verses about money.
But, can you think of the last Christian radio show about money?
I think we are missing the heart of Christ when we focus on the minutia and ignore the major thrusts of his teaching.
But it’s easier to condemn the gays and give the wealthy a break! Especially for ministries that need money.
Bo,
Homosexuality wouldn’t be fornication if we allowed them to marry.
It’s one of cynical cruelties of the evangelical position on this subject.
Greg Allen,
Where in the Bible do you find that a person is allowed to marry someone of the same sex?
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (homosexuals),
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Ro 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
The prohibition on homosexuality is basic and straight forward. There are very few places in the Bible that speak of not taking YHWH’s name in vain and hundreds that speak of keeping the Biblical seventh day Sabbath holy. The number of places something is mentioned does not necessarily make a given topic very important or trivial.
My mom used to say, “a word to the wise is sufficient.”
Could it possibly be that the reason that we find only a few, by your count, places that condemn homosexuality is because there was not much of it happening in Israel or the Church? Could it be that it was so obvious to the people of the various author’s audiences that only in a few times and places did it need to be addressed?
One thing is for sure every passage that mentions homosexuality declares it to be sin. It is considered an abomination and something that will keep those that practice it from inheriting the kingdom of heaven. It deserves the death penalty. Why do we need to have more in the Bible than what was declared there for it to be a major issue?
My parents reminded us over and over and over to wash our hands before meals and to not slam doors and to wipe our feet. All these things were much less important than not doing drugs and not stealing. They made some very pointed and serious statements about things like these and we knew that they were more important. They didn’t tell us about these big things often.
Our heavenly Father has made some very pointed and serious statements about homosexuality…and those that have ears to hear and that are wise and that love Him and their neighbors simply do not need to be reminded over and over. A word to the wise truly is sufficient.
And there is no such thing as homosexual marriage in YHWH’s economy. Homosex is always sinful and deserves the death penalty. It is always a practice that deserves being kicked out of the church. It is always uncleanness, fornication, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, covetousness and an abomination and equal to idolatry.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
You still need to wake up and stop dreaming the things are true and right that are not.
Greg,
The Bible and Jesus in particular condemn sex outside of marriage (sexual immorality). Paul points out that this is a sin against the body not against some tribal structure. Marriage is clearly defined as between a man and a woman in the Bible (although polygamy was to some extent tolerated). There is no reason in the world to think marrying two people of the same sex is acceptable to God. Other than just giving in to what is popular it today’s western culture that is.
Doug
That should have been: “You still need to wake up and stop dreaming that things are true and right that are not.
A couple of issues here raised by posters.
homosexuality:
(1) does it hurt others?
(2) if it doesn’t hurt others is it a sin?
(3) lack of emphasis by evangelical church on one type of sin vs another.
Let us deal with each in turn:
(1) Does it hurt anyone?
ostensibly not because they are two consenting adults. it is similar to the fornicator. the world would say how does the fornicator hurt anyone? two consulting adults. no one hurt. the future spouse?
but i know people who ARE NOT hurt by their spouse’s past sexual experiences, but rather, even prefer experience to inexperience a la recruitment candidates. if it was so obvious that people would be hurt, then the world would condemn fornication, as it does with cheating (yes, even the secular folk condemn it).
so the answer is not so obvious: who does it hurt?
is society hurt?
(2) is it a sin?
well the scriptures to my mind makes it clear it is. body = temple. pervsity that goes against natural order of world. Paul’s exhortations against such sin etc.
but there are many things that are confusing in scripture. e.g. a woman having two husbands: that is illegal. men with two wives: that’s ok.
there is also a mandate allowing for the stoning to death of adulterers. but polygamy is tolerated. i’m confused. what’s the difference? (rhetorical question). Why does the God of the old testament tolerate this absolute abomination? moreover this God does an absolute back flip in the NT a la one of Mohammad’s abrogations in the qu’ran.
if polygamy (which is really a glorified form of adultery) can be tolerated even though it is not the way intended, even though it is a pervsity, that is contrary to all nature and reason, and fairness and all that is right and proper, why cannot homosexuality similarly be tolerated even though it is not the way intended?
why is the homosexual damned while the adulterer (via polygamy) is feasting in heaven?
(3) well the church emphasises things people fall prey to. most people can control their appetites. whereas those in the western church cannot seem to control their proclivity to porn, lusful fantasies with other women’s husbands, and materialism
Ben,
Whatever confusion that you see, or for that matter that you might be trying to produce, in scripture about homosexuality is cleared up quite nicely by Moses and Paul. It is not hard to understand…unless one does not want to understand.
Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Shalom
I wonder if Christians today have been so indoctrinated into not judging, and that may be one reason why we have so little delivering judging going on today.
Let’s take the case of a man who is addicted to drugs and therefore he does not provide well for his family, for his addiction takes priority for him.
How many times have we heard of a family member saying to an elder in a church, “I’ve spoken to my husband about how his drug addiction has been taking priority over providing for the family, but he hasn’t been hearing me. Will you hear my case against his recent behavior which is the cause of our present distress, and if in your opinion, we are telling you the truth about this, not for the sake of evil, but for the righteous relief of needless suffering of all persons concerned, and plead our case to him, asking him that mercy on his behalf be extended toward us, in the form of a voluntary commitment to some drug rehab program or something like that?”
That’s the work of what I like to call a delivering judge, intercessor, or elder, or whatever you might want to call it. How about calling it the work of the ministry of reconciliation, to God and others by the gospel of Christ?
Sometimes I think we have too much leadership in the Church and not enough judges.