Dr. Brown takes calls from those who believe that gifts of the Spirit ended with the days of the apostles, listening to both sides of the argument and presenting his own views for the continuing operation of the gifts of the Spirit until this day. He will also take calls from those who can testify firsthand to God’s miraculous power. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: I believe in the gifts and the power of the Spirit because I believe in Sola scriptura.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Do you believe the Word, do you believe the testimony of scripture, if so, then embrace the gifts.
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The Bible teaches us about the true God and His amazing character and power. It teaches us that He doesn’t change. Why would He stop giving His gifts?
It’s undebatable that Paul believed that the manifestations of the Spirit was current as of his writing.
But, he does leave the door open when he says, “All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.”
… “just as he determines”.
Isn’t it at least possible, that the Holy Spirit sometimes “determines” not to distribute them to a generation of people?
But, this is not my personal debate. If you think you have the give of tongues — I bless you in that. Go for it.
Dr. Brown, I heard the last part of your show on Cessation of the gifts. I was very interested b/c I am in a Baptist church that does not practice the gifts of the spirit. I have spoken in tongues since I became a Christian and I like the church that I am a part of. I would like more information on the subject. I am a torchbearer and would like to know what resources that you have the subject that would help understand more fully from a non-cessation point of view. Thanks. By His Grace, David
The Greek text of 1 Corinthians 12:11 reads, literally, “And all these things works the one and the same Spirit, continuously distributing to each individual even as He wishes.” There is nothing in the text to indicate that there would be a cessation of the gifts for any period of time whatsoever.
Compare 1 Corinthians 1:4-8
“4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, 5 that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (NASB)
The great Greek scholar, Dr. A. T. Robertson, comments on verses 6 and 7.
“The testimony of Christ… Objective genitive, the testimony to or concerning Christ, the witness of Paul’s preaching. Was confirmed in you … First aorist passive of bebaioo, old verb from bebaio and that from baino, to make to stand, to make stable. These special gifts of the Holy Spirit which they had so lavishly received (ch. 1 Corinthians 12:1 ff.) were for that very purpose. See Robertson’s reference at:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-1-6.html
And how long were these “confirming” gifts to last? “Waiting for the revelation…It is an eager expectancy of the second coming of Christ here termed revelation like the eagerness in Titus 2:13 for the same event. As if that attitude of expectation were the highest posture that can be attained here by the Christian”
Again, there is no indication that the gifts were to cease at all before the second coming of Jesus Christ.
My only point is that the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts has s/he wishes.
This, of course, leaves open the possibility of the Holy Spirit choosing not to distribute the gifts for a period of time.
Who am I to tell the Holy Spirit that she or he MUST distribute the gifts of the spirit to a certain people or during a certain time?
This has nothing to do with cessation. But, instead, it has to do with letting God be God.
…and let me be clear.
I am _NOT_ a “cessationist.”
It’s just that, of all the trinity, the Holy Spirit is that hardest to put in a box. Like the wind, the Holy Spirit blows where s/he wishes.
As a Christian, I believe in not constraining the hand of God. This would include not limiting when or to whom s/he gives her gifts. If it serves God’s will to not give the gifts for a while, that’s not for me to say.
I want to address an different issue that Dr. Brown spoke-to today.
He said that the Holy Spirit is clearly working miracles in the parts of the world where the gospel is new and spreading. He specifically mentioned the Muslim world.
I worked as a missionary for over a decade in one of those far-flung places.
We had “miracle tourists’ come visit a couple times a yar. Rather boldly, I might add, since it was a highly dangerous place, often banned by the US State Department for travel.
We did see people come to Christ over there which is a miracle, in itself.
But, these “miracle tourists” (aka “prayer warriors”) saw miracles that I didn’t. Even when I was right there with them.
I am sure they went home with all kinds of testimonies about irrefutable miracles, terrifying demon manifestations, stunning healings, etc.
It left me scratching my head.
I always wondered why those that say the gifts have ceased. That said if the fakes and frauds weren’t allowed on Christian TV, it would be showing very little other than dead air. All of these fake healers and the crowds they bring in are embarrassing.
Greg,
Where were you a missionary? As for the accounts of which I spoke, they are verified by many reliable sources, with amazing fruit to back it. It would make your heart glad!
Greg,
Could you please explain to me what you mean when, on July 9th,
you refer to the Holy Spirit by saying that, “s/he gives her gifts”?
For All,
Here’s a can of worms: It seems interesting to me, as I read and listen to all that’s written on the subject of tongues, that the gift of the interpretation of tongues, as presented and described in the Scriptures is never presented nor talked about–especially since the two gifts go together. With many churches across America and the world full of people who speak in tongues, the gift being given by the Holy Spirit, why are there not people across the world who have the bona fide gift of interpreting tongues? I have ministered for over 20 years around the world, and now work in a semi-closed country, and I have never met a person who has the Biblical gift of being able to interpret another language without having studied it. What do you think?
Joe,
First, the gift of interpretation does not refer to interpreting earthly languages but rather to interpreting utterances in tongues.
Second, some of my friends have either spoken a foreign language supernaturally or interpreted it supernaturally. In fact, someone working with a non-charismatic friend of mine had it happen while reaching out to lost tribal people in S. America — to the shock of my non-charismatic friend.
Dr. Brown, if you could do a show about those types of things on the line of fire, that would be great. I flirted with cessation-ism because of the blatant lies of Mark Driscoll and his claim to dreams and visions about people, casting out demons in special ways, and all his other silliness, and also I’ve seen the false prophecies of David Wilkerson. It would be an encouraging thing to look more into it.
^And by a show I mean testimonies of these types of things.
Dr. Brown,
Could you please comment on my question to Greg? Thanks
Also, as is always the case, my brother, (at least it has been my experience), the exceptions are noted as you do here–“SOME of my friends…,” and “someONE working with…,” etc. (emphasis mine.)
Let me repeat my statement above and actually correct myself:
With many churches across America and the world full of people who speak in tongues, the gift supposedly being given by the Holy Spirit, why are there not people across the world who have the bona fide gift of interpreting tongues? It is simply not the case.
I say this to all who read this: 2 Tim. 2:15 is a solemn verse unto the Lord. Anyone who is a serious student of Scripture who honestly wants to consider what might be doctrinally true FROM SCRIPTURE, would do well to read, consider, and research John MacArthur’s commentary on I Corinthians, chapters 12-14, no matter what one might think of him personally.
I am not his “disciple,” but I know that he has put DOZENS of hours of research into the study of those chapters, and I can no longer simply believe what I have seen, heard, or even experienced!
Respectfully submitted,
Joe
Joe,
I don’t follow your question. There are probably countless thousands of people with the gift of interpretation of tongues as per 1 Cor 14; you are simply defining it incorrectly, and I did respond to you above, #12. As for Pastor MacArthur, with all respect to his work, his commentary on 1 Corinthians 12-14 represents some of the worst work he has produced academically, and that’s why hardly any top Corinthians commentators agree with his cessationist reading today. To get you on a much better path, start here: http://www.amazon.com/Cessation-Charismata-Protestant-Post-biblical-Miracles–Revised/dp/0981952623/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374364111&sr=8-1&keywords=jon+ruthven
(Sorry, but I’m not able to interact further because of time constraints, but feel free to call my show with questions.)
Fred,
On July 9th, Dr. Brown had a “Cessationist Call-In Day.” There was a man who wrote blogs referring to the Holy Spirit as “s/he,” or simply “she.” Imagine the trinity: He the Father, He the Son, and She the Holy Spirit. That IS blasphemy. I asked both Greg and Dr. Brown to comment on that.
Dr. Brown didn’t address it, but rather addressed other questions I asked him, such as why we don’t have those with the gift of interpretation if so many across the nation are truly speaking with the biblical gift of tongues. He said that there are probably thousands with the gift.
He also said that some of the worst “academic” work that John has ever done has been his commentary of I Corinthians, chapters 12-14.
That’s not an attack–just simply the facts. What are your thoughts on my dialogue with Dr. Brown?