Dr. Brown interviews openly gay philosophy professor John Corvino, author of What’s Wrong with Homosexuality?, and then discusses his latest article, dealing with ugly communication and mean-spirited internet comments among believers. He’ll also comment on important, breaking news in the Church and the world. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: While I have profound differences with those who advocate the morality of homosexual practice, I have profound love for them as fellow human beings for whom Jesus died and I want to express that love on a daily basis!
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: It’s time to merge courage with compassion, it’s time to merge boldness with brokenness, and it’s time to speak the Truth in love!
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Very graciously done conversation in the first hour Dr. Brown.
I may catch the replay to listen to the early parts of the 2nd hour when you quoted Colossians 4:6 and it sounded like you said “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salsa, …”
I know you said salt but I heard salsa, oh so im looking forward to finding that part again to see how badly I misheard that portion. haha.
I think when you have to say over and over that you arent things that others say you are–your actions should be enough– you are playing in to a game of sorts.
Its rather clear that “Christians” havent a campaign to be violent against those that choose certain behaviours as a lifestyle. Whens the last Church sponsored stoning of any kind taken place in the US or Europe this or last century? Our continued apologies and statements today that “we arent” gives the fertile message that we once were. Should we carry the “sins of our fathers” from centuries ago? Should homosexuals too carry the burdens of homosexuals who have molested children?
Lines have been drawn. Shouldnt we go the way of the Hasidim and the Amish and start creating Our Community among the ruin of the “worldly” one? Homosexuality isnt just some Born that way thing. Dont we expose our children to such choices when we allow them to attend public schools that openly and actively promote the Dan Savage message. Its nice to say “My kids wont make bad choices because I raised them right” but environment can lead to ruin. The old crude line about “mix with ‘certain things’ youre bound to get a little on you” holds very true. Not just to those unprepared but particularly to those that know better.
After hearing that recording of the “adult” coaching a child to utter their weighty opinion about homosexual coupling I might add So much for when you hear “do you think we wanted to be born this way”. When you are coaching children to accept it that aint regret. Thats activism.
Wowee -I really appreciated the respectful dialog Dr Brown & professor John Corvino both modeled yesterday. I was simply amazed however that someone who is articulate and well educated as Prof Corvino, can fail to see the overwhelming social data & evidence that demonstrably shows gender roles do matter to the health of a developing child. The greatest, most loving Father in the world cannot replace the unique female role that the mother provides and vice-versa. I pray for Prof Coveno and think of what the apostle Paul said about those who suppress or forcibly “hold down” the truth in unrighteousness and fail to see the obvious.
Pretending that false teachers are brothers in Christ is the worst form of “mean spirited communication”.
I didn’t see the Apostle John prasing the Gnostics for the common ground they shared as if they could be won to the Lord through flattery.
I didn’t see Elijah praising the false prophets of Baal for the common ground they shared as if they could be won to the Lord through flattery.
I didn’t see Moses praising those who built the golden calf at the foot on Mt Sinai for the common ground their shared as if they could be won to the Lord through flattery.
The three were bold in the stand against error and its dangers.
Some of us have just had enough of this conwardly nonsense that seems to fear false teachers in the body of Christ versus standing firm for the Lord. Our worst enemies are within. If you don’t see that you are part of the problem.
WayneB, where exactly is all this “overwhelming social data & evidence that demonstrably shows gender roles do matter to the health of a developing child”?
On the contrary, major psychological associations like The American Psychological Association have explicitly stated the opposite:
“there is no evidence to suggest that lesbian women or gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of lesbian women or gay men is compromised relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children’s psychosocial growth”.
This position is also affirmed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Anthropological Association, The American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, The Canadian Psychological Association and The Australian Psychological Society. In fact I don’t think you could name one major psychological or academic association that would say otherwise with regards to the effects of same-sex parenting on children. Clearly gender roles are not as important as you evidently think they are.
Anyways that bit aside, I also want to express my appreciation for the respectful dialogue between Professor Corvino and Dr. Brown. As a gay person myself, and a strong supporter of LGBT rights, I naturally side with John Corvino’s position. Still, I came away really impressed with how gracious, kind, and respectful Dr. Brown was in this conversation (I guess I’m used to expecting differently from opponents to homosexuality), so for that I appreciate and respect him as a person.
WayneB
>>… the overwhelming social data & evidence that demonstrably shows gender roles do matter to the health of a developing child
The American Academy of Pediatrics would not agree with you.
>>The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/2/339.full
Once again, I want to thank Dr. Brown for his commitment to civil debate on the the issue of homosexuality.
I love and serve the Lord and I love the bible. Even so, I’ve had some people refuse to accept me as a fellow Christian because I disagree with them on this issue.
This is very hurtful and I believe goes against Jesus’ commandments for Christian unity.
Dr. Brown,
Nice discussion with Corvino. He did seem to nicely dismantle your connection between gay marriage leading logically to polygamy in saying that each situation needed to examined in light of harm or benefit to society. That is, if polygamy has a clear negative societal impact it should not be allowed, while to disallow gay marriage (on a Non-Biblical basis) a robust case needs to be made for damages to society.
S. Johnson, his argument is purely theoretical. The reality is that most of the momentum for same-sex “marriage” is driven by shallow pop culture and by emotion, not by scientific analysis of the data, and of course, the same culture popularizing the one is popularizing the other (including polyamory). It’s everywhere around us, and I’ve written about it a good deal.
Greg, surely you don’t take the AAP to be unbiased researchers here, do you? There extreme pro-gay biases have been revealed in the past, while other studies differing with the positive, gender-doesn’t-matter studies are often suppressed scientifically. Dig into the many resources here, and read Dawn’s own story: http://www.dawnstefanowicz.org/resources.htm. Note also the powerful testimony of sociologist Dr. Patricia Morgan in the UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9908951/Gay-marriage-will-destabilise-family-life-sociologist-warns.html
Before, we were told “no, we’ll not move on from homosexual marriage to polyamorous marriage – it’s not a slippery slope”; now, it is heading in that direction – they want to redefine marriage to include polyamorous marriage. Soon, after that, it’ll be “I now pronounce you husband and dog” – and you won’t be able to object to it. What is insane and out of the question today cannot be objected to tomorrow.
If its biological, same sex attraction that is, explain how identical twins dont always have the same proclivities.
I also think the “we’re born that way” argument is a tactic to make people feel comfortable that its purely a biological thing and nothing that can confuse children or the impressionable. Of course you see more and more the argument today that “who cares if its a choice…do you think somethings wrong with it?”
Dr. Brown,
I read the Telegraph article and didn’t find it very convincing. Patricia Morgan’s testimony seemed to be rhetorical rather than evidence based.
As for the AAP, I assume they used peer-reviewed research for their conclusions. The abstract I originally looked at seemed pretty solid.
I have to be honest here — I’m no expert on the science of homosexuality, so I can’t debate it point-by-point.
My support of equal rights for gays comes more from my study of the bible, biblical history, and my personal sense of fairness.
Magnus,
Common sense and my layman’s understanding of the science tells me that sexual preference is as complex as any human preference — a mix of “nature” and “nurture.”
But I do agree that the morality of the issue is separate from cause of it. (I think I’ve heard Dr. Brown say as much.)
I also understand why this hurts our gay friends so much. When we call homosexual behaviour sin, they feel as if God doomed them to either sin or perpetual heartbreak.
Greg,
By all means, please read the detailed documentation of these issues in A Queer Thing Happened to America, and be assured that the AAP has demonstrated itself to be so radically pro-homosexual — to the point of ignoring valid criticisms by its members — that many of their members broke away and formed a new group. Here’s what the new group says about homosexual parenting: http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/parenting-issues/homosexual-parenting-is-it-time-for-change.
Finally, I’m completely baffled by how any honest reading of Scriptures would want to normalize or celebrate something that God clearly calls sinful and destructive — and something from which He promises redemption.