If Jesus was not the Father, how could He say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father? Can you take part in the sins of other people by letting them lay hands on you? To watch the video of the clip on the wrath of God, go HERE. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at (866) 348 7884 with your questions and comments.
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: We ought to look at what God says about us in the Word, who He calls us to be, says that we are as sons and daughters of God, a Kingdom of priests. Then ask ourselves, “How then should we live?”
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: Let us live in the light of eternity. There is coming wrath, there is coming judgment; God’s mercy remains available today.
SPECIAL OFFER! THIS WEEK ONLY!
There is a KEY WORD that comes out of Michael’s mouth in that video on youtube ; a word that is in his book ‘How Saved Are We?’ : ‘DEFECTIVE’.
(That 10min video is actually a useful little tool in itself for introducing people to Michael’s teaching ; if they were only ever going to buy one book of his,I think ‘Go And Sin No More’ is the one.) Michael,you now have David’s stellar book on Gehenna ; do get many to read it ; it is a near perfect match to that video,is it not ?
Mainstream Evangelicalism is actually rooted in defectiveness : in one-tense Augustinian salvation and binitarian cessationism.
Gehenna and wrath might best be classed as the study of OTHEROLOGY (have you noticed that such a terrible end is always for others ; never oneself ?!)
Have you ever counted the elephants on the mount ? The Gehenna warnings are one,His teaching on remarriage another.
As to the message that should be preached,or perhaps,what should NOT be preached ; here is a key book aimed at mending this HORRENDOUS defectiveness :
(The defective message DOES get people into the dragnet in the short-term ; but in the long-term,many go back to the swamp with ‘tickets to heaven’ in their back pocket.)
From DEFECTIVENESS to EFFECTIVENESS :
http://www.amazon.com/IS-JOHN-THE-GOSPEL-ebook/dp/B004S7FWLS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1350654188&sr=1-1&keywords=pawson+gospel
At the end of the video on the youtube screen,the message says to behold the GOODNESS and SEVERITY of God. Michael,in 2007 David gave a talk on that very sentence ; it is one of the most important talks of his entire life. (As with the book on Gehenna,so with this 2007 talk : a near perfect match to the 10min video.) Listen to the talk online or freely download ; one and all :
http://davidpawson.org/resources/series/the-goodness-and-severity-of-god
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; ……
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
His Blood = Wine and fruit of Vine ( I AM the Vine)
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, …… and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, ……this fruit of the vine,
spiritual meaning assigned to fruit….
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Lane
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Why does Paul say, “this I say (not the Lord)”? Aren’t we to follow Him, and do ONLY what we are shown (“I can do nothing on My own — the son only does what the Father shows him”) ?
@suicide
Isn’t “murder” an issue of hating someone in one’s heart — therefore, the physical act of murdering oneself out of hopelessness or desperation, would it of necessity “qualify” as (damnable) “murder”?
Really appreciated the clip. As I’m studying the parables of Rabbi Yehoshua, Yeshua, Jesus — it is clear over and over that he addresses that wrath. It has become popular to assert that there is no hell, only the grave, but that is definitely NOT what Jesus taught.
Hearing that clip, I got a rare feeling, sweeping, sort of like the advent of “goosebumps” but not exactly the same — definitely a Holy Spirit-touched message. Definitely!
Inspiring, great to hear, and so timely in this age of such confusion.
I’m grateful.
@Seeing Jesus is seeing the Father:
In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul says Jesus’s Face is like a mirror — what is being reflected? The Father’s glory. We cannot see the Father (both John and Paul teach this), BUT we can see His reflection in the Face of Jesus (even today).
RE: suicide.
Struggling with this myself, as I’ve gotten to know someone who plans to end their life in the Spring in a state which has Right To Die legislation. This person has a lot of pain issues…physically, emotionally, a range. This person’s faith has been rocky. At times, believing, at times not. In any case, feeling that everything they do has “never worked out” and “never will.” I’m so concerned for this person, and have been praying. I do honestly wonder sometimes why putting an animal down that is suffering is considered a noble act, yet a person who is suffering cannot be put out of their misery without our judgment. Of course, I’m aware that we are worth more than the sparrows (and all the animal kingdom, though it’s easy to see why they were sacrificial victims — their greater innocence?) I really feel this person’s problem is that they haven’t fully given themselves to the Lord. When that happens, He causes miracles to occur. Sometimes they are dramatic, sometimes they are relatively small, but they are always welcome and recognizeably from Him. This person doesn’t have that relationship, apparently, or they wouldn’t be feeling that they have perpetual “bad luck” and therefore seeking to end their life. Whatever “relationship” is there, it doesn’t seem deep enough. That outcry of repentance and seeking of God has to come from the whole heart, I know this from experience. And I don’t think (based on what they write) that this has happened.
I would respectfully ask for prayers on behalf of this person…that they might find the true source of Life and know it for certain.
I welcome any corrections to my thinking, too, if needed.
King Saul fell on his sword. Was he righteous or righteous in doing so? Or was he apostate/faithless and prideful/selfish. Is not faith in YHWH’s plan for us also about when He sees fit to end our lives? Is not suicide destroying YHWH’s temple?
1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
I have personally dealt with extreme pain off and on for over 15 years due to a debilitating back problem. I watched our severely handicapped son suffer for 20 years. Paul did too. I have found that YHWH’s grace is sufficient. Tears cleanse the soul.
Ec 7:4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
Enduring until the end is rewarded bountifully. Enduring my suffering and my son’s has taught me much and put me in the place of dependance upon YHWH. It has given me insight beyond what I could have ever come to otherwise.
Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Lu 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
My Bible does not say to end my life if I am afflicted…it says to pray and not faint and receive a reward. It says to weep with those that weep. It says to endure suffering and rely upon YHWH’s grace. May we all be found faithful.
Shalom
oops! worng order in these two sentences…it should have read:
I have found that YHWH’s grace is sufficient. Paul did too.
Jesus, in the sense of being God Almighty, was the father. But in his human manifestation, he was the son. So one eternal God, who is Jesus Christ.
The clip of Wrath of God is missing from the church pulpit. Our young people need to hear this. Thank you.
I am glad that Job didn’t kill himself. It seems that it is equivalent to cursing YHWH.
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. It is murdering the whole world to yourself, so to speak. It is hating everybody but yourself. It is the ultimate sacrifice to the god of self.
It is not enduring until the end. It is not laying down your life for others. It is not faith and worship toward YHWH.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
O Father YHWH, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Thine is the kingdom and glory and power forever. Amen
Shalom
Exciting to be able to visit Israel !!! He’s so lucky. I was also in Israel from March 20 till April 15th 2012 3 1/2 weeks Sea of Gahleel Jordan and Jerusalem…..i made quite a few panoramas and pics of almost every Holy place in Israel…I was even on mount Pisgah !……….unfortunately I also got an ALLERGY for the first time in my 44 years that still has not completely gone away…….AWFUL….worst thing ive ever gotten in my life, certainly similar to one of the last plagues, THAT BAD…….hopefully Mr. Brown was spared that !!!!!!!!!
Lane
Thank you Bo, for the scriptural backing of enduring to the end….
Not to make an argument, but we don’t know the circumstances of any given person’s actions in committing suicide — there could be someone whose parents were murdered before their eyes, then suffered abuse and rape: if that person puts their faith in Christ, but ends up committing suicide later, is that person consigned to hell?
If human judges know how to judge murder in the first degree from manslaughter (based upon evidence which substantiates a heart’s probable INTENTION behind/within/motivating the ACT), certainly God knows how to judge between a murderer who hates his brother and a tormented soul who commits suicide.
I’m not advocating suicide or presenting it as a viable option to life’s problems; I’m just saying that since we cannot know “beyond a shadow of a doubt” (and therefore should not) that all who commit suicide are damned, we therefore should not pronounce “damnation” upon 100% of suicides.
Let’s be more sensible (in light of the fact that there isn’t a 100% certainty on the matter — unless the person who committed suicide was demonstrably an unbeliever, living for himself) respecting the loved ones involved.
Who are we to pontificate damnation upon their loved ones when we ourselves do not have an absolutely definitive Word from the Lord on the matter ourselves?
Faith is a funny word. It can be used many ways. If someone has real faith in Messiah, how is it that they can take their own life that they have supposedly given to Messiah? It is not theirs to take if they really have faith. How can trust in Messiah produce self murder? How is it that faith can be something that is not lived out? Since one can loose their salvation, how is it that suicide does not accomplish this? How can the person repent of self murder? How can one say that they have truly forgiven the ones that murdered their parents and raped them if they are still in total despair? How can they be forgiven if they have not forgiven those that trespassed against them? I once heard a quote: “To despair is to turn ones back on God.”
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
Mr 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
I am sure that YHWH will deal with us mercifully and justly. I would not want to give someone false hope that they could expect forgiveness from YHWH for an unrepented of sin such as self murder or that they had true saving faith even if they killed themselves.
Shalom
Bo and Daniel……I think in order to understand according to the bible whether or not someone who commits suicide or some other sin will be forgiven…..I think we as christians have to ask ourselves if most of what Jesus said to those Israelis was said in light of the cross or not !!……was the sermon on the mount a sermon and standards Jesus was teaching directed at NT christians who knowing the cross was coming and in light of that fact had to do those things OR…..are they to be viewed as OT people who apart from the cross had a covenant with God and Jesus would then be understood to be saying…….”if you Israelis were to stand right now in front of God according to the law this is how you would be judged apart from my impending sacrifice”…….what all that means ?…it would mean that Chorazim, Bethsaida and Kafernahum ARE NOT NOW in hell paying a worse penulty than the rapists of Sodom……..it would mean that “you Capernaum must suffer worse than sodom in hell” was offered up, or sacrificed by God upon a cross….as a burnt offering….the judgment of mankind by the law was sacrificed so that people could be forgiven but the books were opened and Israelis were told what should have happened to them. …..it means most of what Jesus said to them was right according to the law AND NOT…in light of the impending cross you Israelis never the less must do this and this and this or else !!! …..it would mean that the sermon on the mount was equivalent to the white throne judgment of Rev 20…..but all that was sacrificed but as wit david was not done without payment or merely overlooked….probably upon Gordons Calvary where Ornans/auranahs threshingfloor was.
THE JUDGMENT ITSELF…. of mankind by the law was sacrificed upon the cross……
Rev 16:17 …..a great voice out of the temple of heaven, F R O M T H E T H R O N E , saying, It is done.
parallel reality =
Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Suppose someone followed the apostles around and saw the miracles, the healings, the signs that the Lord was with them in what they were doing, heard the preaching of the gospel that was as much like Jesus as the words we read of John the Baptist’s were, and suppose this follower were to say, “OK, I’ve heard you tell of Jesus, but I say unto you, simply show me him and I will believe you.”
About laying hands on someone too soon, we should not be too quick to make some kind of “citizen’s arrest” on someone like some kind of deputy of the law that keeps his one bullet in his shirt pocket because that’s what the sheriff tells him to do, but at the same time, we don’t want to be so blind and ignorant that we go along with all that an evil doer might be about.
We should be discerning, not gullible, sober, temperate, not selfwilled, etc. (Titus 1:7)
There are some who minister, but if there is one that isn’t walking right and is doing evil toward you, would you let him lay hands on you and minister to you?
I would rather that he be open to talk to me about whatever it is that I may have against him in order that we might walk through that and find out what it is that needs to be brought to the cross.
What would a major golf tournament be these days without Rory McIlroy ? A tennis tournament without Nadal ?
I’ve just had a quick look at http://www.holydesperation.com ; Michael,do get David involved – he is a man who understands the times like few others. Not only that,you live and breathe revival and holiness ; David holds the inconvenient key to why the Britiah and Amercan Body may be a mile wide,but only an inch deep.
Don’t leave it one of Messiah’s very finest.
(Sorry to keep on ; but that site,plus David being 82,has caused this post request.)
It’s really something to think about how the Law which was perfect required the death of a perfect man. (Jesus)
Lane,
Any such discussion is out of place on this forum and we will be pulling all comments associated with the subject you’ve addressed. You are welcome to comment and interact through the Line of Fire forum but please understand that if such actions continue you will be blocked from the Line of Fire forum. God bless and thank you for listening to the Line of Fire broadcast.
Blessings,
AskDrBrown Staff
Hmmm. I get the feeling I missed a few interesting posts…
@Dr. Brown,
I would agree with you that Revelation 11 is ambiguous, along with the rest of the book of Revelation. However, I would say the gospels are very explicit that the real actual Elijah the prophet of the Old Testament will come before the second coming. My #1 reason for holding to the actual Elijah coming and not someone else is the gospels say John came in the power and spirit of Elijah, but after Yeshua was speaking with the actual Elijah and Moses of the Tanakh, and they were still thinking about the both of them, the disciples asked about that same Elijah coming, and Yeshua acknowledged that the Elijah they had just seen and spoken to, would come and restore all things.
@Dr. Brown,
One part of the wrath of God clip really hit me straight in the gut and went right through my spirit:
To anyone who feels the tangibility of that reality, it’s enough to make your bones snap, and your body burst into flames. If we all just get that reality into our spirits and minds, we’d live radically different lives.
David, yes, we would live radically different lives!
Rudderology is a PRIMARY aspect of the narrow Way ; yet speech teaching seems to have been shelved.
Jacob would not be pleased !