Insights into the Jewishness of Jesus and Your Jewish-Related Questions

1. To answer the question whether or not there will be a third holy temple in Jerusalem before the second coming and whether or not it will be legitimate in God’s eyes, consider this.

   The second temple was created only because a demon worshipping pagan Cyrus the Great of Persia authorised it, yet even so, Jesus said,

   “Then Jesus went into the temple of God… and He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’” Matthew 21:12-13

   “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” Luke 2:49

   So the fact Cyrus authorised the second temple didn’t seem to stop Yeshua calling it his father’s house. I believe that is because God is ultimately sovereign.

   The next question is, is temple worship, prayer and sacrifice still relevant to the New Covenant believer, to answer that.

   “So continuing daily with one accord in the temple.” Acts 2:46

   “Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour.” Acts 3:1

   “Daily in the temple…” Acts 5:42

   “Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them. Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple…” Acts 21:26-27

   “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple…” Acts 22:17

   So if New Covenant believers were daily in Cyrus’ the pagans house, which Yeshua called ‘My Father’s House’, then it makes sense to me that if pagans once again make it possible to rebuild the temple, that it will still be ‘His father’s house’, and still relevant, as it was to the New Covenant Apostles in the book of Acts.

   In closing,

   “But who can endure the day of His coming?
   And who can stand when He appears?
   For He is like a refiner’s fire
   And like launderers’ soap.
   He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
   He will purify the sons of Levi,
   And purge them as gold and silver,
   That they may offer to the Lord
   An offering in righteousness.” Malachi 3:2-3

   “Thus says the Lord of hosts, saying:
   Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH!
   From His place He shall branch out,
   And He shall build the temple of the Lord;
   Yes, He shall build the temple of the Lord.
   He shall bear the glory,
   And shall sit and rule on His throne;
   So He shall be a priest on His throne.” Zechariah 6:12-13

   “Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away… …But I saw no temple in it.” Revelation 21:1,22

2. To answer the question of the show, Yes, I believe there will be two temples. One before the second coming and one last אחרית temple. The most glorious one ever that Ezekiel spoke of that will last until the end of the Millennium and Yeshua will be:

   כהן לעולם על דברתי מלכי צדק

3. I posted some verses about the Millennial temple, but why do I believe there will be a temple before the second coming? Because of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, which says,

   “he sits as God in the temple of God.”

   And because of Revelation 13 which speaks about the final AntiChrist that, “he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His Mishkan, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.”

   (a side not: I believe the blasphemy against those in heaven is those who died steadfast in their belief in the Son of most high God’s atoning sacrifice on the cross. )

   And because of Joel 2 which says,

   ““Now, therefore,” says the Lord,
   “Turn to Me with all your heart,
   With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.” So rend your heart, and not your garments;
   Return to the Lord your God,
   For He is gracious and merciful,
   Slow to anger, and of great kindness;
   And He relents from doing harm.”

   I believe this turning to God is about acknowledging their offence,

   “I will return again to My place
   Till they acknowledge their offence.
   Then they will seek My face;
   In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Hosea 5:15

   “I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’” Matthew 23:39

   Joel 2 goes on to say,

   “Blow the trumpet in Zion, Consecrate a fast, Call a sacred assembly; Gather the people, Sanctify the congregation, Assemble the elders…
   Let the priests, who minister to the Lord (in the holy temple in Jerusalem) weep between the porch and the altar…

   Then the Lord will be zealous for His land,
   And pity His people. The Lord will answer and say to His people…
   I will no longer make you a reproach among the nations. “But I will remove far from you the northern army (of the AntiChrist)…
   His stench will come up, And his foul odor will rise, Because he has done monstrous things.”

   His stench and foul odour is referring the valley of Hamon Gog where,

   “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” Isaiah 66:24

   Ezekiel talks about the same event,

   “It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude. Therefore they will call it the Valley of Hamon Gog. For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified,” says the Lord God. “They will set apart men regularly employed, with the help of a search party, to pass through the land and bury those bodies remaining on the ground, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make a search. The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a man’s bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog. The name of the city will also be Hamonah. Thus they shall cleanse the land.”’ Ezekiel 39:11-16

4. The final AntiChrist blasphemies “God, to blaspheme His name (character and nature) and His Mishkan.”
   We must remember that the the Mishkan travelled around Israel and it wasn’t until Solomon that the Mishkan became upgraded into the holy temple. The Miqdash of Solomon was in fact an unmovable version of the portable Mishkan. So the fact the AntiChrist can blasphemy the Mishkan, sounds to me like there’s a Mishkan/Miqdash on earth again.

5. David,

   So, there’s no distinction before a Temple that was built BEFORE Jesus died and rose vs. one built AFTER that? And Hebrew 8:13 says nothing to that?

   Also, why in the world do you write, “The second temple was created only because a demon worshipping pagan Cyrus the Great of Persia authorised it”? The Word plainly says that God moved His heart to fulfill His purposes (“the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia” 2Ch 36:22). What an odd take on this you have. Where did you get it from?

6. David Roberts—

   “The second temple was created only because a demon worshipping pagan Cyrus the Great of Persia authorised it…”

   “So the fact Cyrus authorised the second temple didn’t seem to stop Yeshua calling it his father’s house. I believe that is because God is ultimately sovereign.”

   The Scriptures say that the Lord was the one who authorized the building of the Temple. He called Cyrus from the womb for that purpose (naming him before he was born) and He referred to him as His annointed. Cyrus fulfilled the Lord’s will as it is recorded in various places.

   Cyrus acknowledged that the Lord God was the one who gave him the power to destroy Israel’s present enemies. God went before Cyrus and was with him to fulfill His purposes.

   Isaiah 41

   Isa 44:28 –
   who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, “Let it be rebuilt,” and of the temple, “Let its foundations be laid.” ’

   Isa 45:1 “This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:

   Isa 45:2 I will go before you and will level the mountains [fn]; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.

   Isa 45:3 I will give you the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

   Isa 45:4 For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me.

   Isa 45:13 I will raise up Cyrus [fn] in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.”

   The Book of Ezra, chaper 1 speaks of God’s plan.

   Ez. 1:1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing:

   (I thought perhaps this could be the decree spoken of in Daniel 9 but I don’t know how it fits or if it is even plausible at all.)

   Ezr 1:2 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: “‘The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah.

   The rest of the chapter then lists the materials brought for that purpose.

   Cyrus is in type the Messiah yet to come, (at that time). He is carrying out the Lord’s will for the One who will “suddenly come to that temple” which is the prophetic implication of what is written .

   I hope you don’t mind my interjecting those things into your statements.

7. Once again I was typing at the same time as someone else. This time it was Dr. Brown. 🙂

8. Sheila,

   Well done in terms of providing all the citations. I have no idea where David got his statement from — really, it was quite outlandish to me and the first time I’ve ever heard that — and I’m looking forward to hear why he posted it.

9. Thanks, Dr. Brown.

   I didn’t want David to misinterpret the revelation and typology of Cyrus as the LORD’s annointed, called as His servant to “build the temple of the Lord.”

10. Understood, Sheila, and that is actually quite secondary to the larger point.

11. Yes, of course you’re right. Sorry.

12. To Dr. Brown and Sheila. I’ve tried to answer your questions as best I could. Please forgive me for being lengthy. I didn’t know how else to say it.

    “So, there’s no distinction before a Temple that was built BEFORE Jesus died and rose vs. one built AFTER that?”

    I’m not sure what you mean exactly by distinction, if you mean how is it possible that a pre-second coming Temple could be legitimate? I would say that if 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is talking about a pre-second coming temple, which I believe it is, the Holy Spirit calls it,

    “the temple of God”,

    so the Holy Spirit gave it legitimacy. Also if Joel 2 is speaking about the time immediately before the second coming, which I believe it is, the Spirit again urges the Cohenim to,

    “Weep between the porch and the altar.”

    Why tell them to call out to God in that place if that place is illegitimate to God? They’re supposed to be moving God’s heart, not putting him off.

    “And Hebrew 8:13 says nothing to that?”
    I would say that it was talking about how Christ set something in motion when he died and that from God’s perspective, it’s like it’s passed away already, but I believe there is enough Scripture to settle the matter that Temple service will be a continuous part of Millennial life.

    “Also, why in the world do you write, “The second temple was created only because a demon worshipping pagan Cyrus the Great of Persia authorised it”? The Word plainly says that God moved His heart to fulfill His purposes (“the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia” 2Ch 36:22). What an odd take on this you have. Where did you get it from?”

    I believe that Cyrus would have, like Persian Kings of his time, worshipped the many Persian gods, like Nebuchadnezzar did, only that God turned his heart for God’s own purposes. And that is a key to what might/will happen before the second coming. I acknowledge all the verses you both posted, but I believe that God moved his heart, in spite of him being a pagan King, it wasn’t because he was some great ṣadiq or some holy prophet of the Lord, but like Pharaoah and Nebuchadnezzar and many other wicked men of history whom God moved their hearts.

    The problem for us is when it happens, we won’t know why it’s happening, unless a prophet of God can look into the heart of the individual and say, oh this is happening, because God put it into his heart. Otherwise, we might reject what God is doing because of the person doing it, failing to recognise that God is totally sovereign and see his heart in it.

    Revelation 17:17 says,

    “For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.”

    I believe that the Islamic Mahdi will give the descendants of Jewish people permission to rebuild the temple. So some would immediately rush to say, oh, it’s an AntiChrist temple. It’s an evil temple which God hates.
    But how do they know that God didn’t put it into his heart, just like God put it into Cyrus’ heart? Another thing to consider is, to defile something, it has to have sanctity in the first place, because you can’t defile something already defiled. So when the Scriptures talk about the AntiChrist defiling the temple (I realise it can be debated if those verses are talking about past events, but I believe the NT gives us enough to go to believe that there will be an end time fulfillment, like an echo of what happened with Antiochus Epiphanes), that is more proof that it really is a legitimate temple of God, because he can’t defile a temple with no sanctity.

    “I hope you don’t mind my interjecting those things into your statements.”
    Not at all, I believe it is thoroughly helpful to bring attention to the word of God to fellow believers.

    “I didn’t want David to misinterpret the revelation and typology of Cyrus as the LORD’s annointed, called as His servant to “build the temple of the Lord.””

    No, I hear you and get it, but I must say that if God was painting a prophetic picture of what the Mashiaḥ would do, it makes no sense unless Yeshua HaMashiaḥ will build the Millennial temple when he returns.

13. see his heart in it = see his hand in it. i.e. The hand of God.

14. the descendants of the Jewish people = the descendants of the Aaron.
    Sorry guys for the typos.

15. I’ve actually wondered about this, myself…

    abomination causing desolation presupposes that glory is present, at all, in the first place…

    how, then, could a Jewish Temple be left desolate in the future, if the Divine Presence no longer rests upon the Old Covenant?

    Could it be that “the glory which was fading” is STILL PRESENT, to a degree (albeit “fading”)?

16. “Could it be that “the glory which was fading” is STILL PRESENT, to a degree (albeit “fading”)?”

    I would say from the perspective of eternity, it’s like it’s completely done with, but on earth, from our perspective it will continue till heaven and earth pass away.

17. @Dr. Brown,

    as you know writing your Jeremiah commentary, many times God calls Nebuchadnezzar, “my servant”, yet he did some really wicked, horrible things.

    Another thing to consider is, the beast empires. If Walid Shoebat is right, there are seven and an eighth which is of the seventh.

    1st – Egyptian (Pharaoh)
    2nd – Assyrian
    3rd – Babylonian (Nebuchadnezzar)
    4th – Persia (Cyrus)
    5th – Grecian/Ionian
    6th – Roman
    7th – Ottoman
    8th – Revived Ottoman

    Wouldn’t it be fitting of the head of the eight beast (Ottoman) empire gave permission to build the temple as the head of the fourth beast (Persian) empire gave permission?

18. David,

    Thanks for the responses. If you’re ready to retract the Cyrus statement as outlandish, I’m happy to dialog as time permits, but it is so out there in left field, as far as the explicit statements of Scripture (and so unrelated to the topic at hand) that I’m hesitant to engage further, as it’s symptomatic to me of other strange views you’ve put forth as a non-Jew trying to live as a Jew, so my concerns continue to increase with each post I’m able to read (and I don’t catch many of them — often most of them — to be sure). I also completely differ with your reading of Heb 8:13. The Sinaitic covenant has been over for almost 2,000 years and the new covenant has been established with the remnant of Israel and with Gentile believers. In the future, by God’s grace, there will be a national turning and the Jewish people en masse will be grafted back in.

19. “If you’re ready to retract the Cyrus statement as outlandish.”

    I’m ready to retract how I’d phrased myself. It didn’t clearly express what I was getting at, but I see no definitive proof that Cyrus never worshipped other gods and that he exclusively only worshipped the God of Israel. I see him like other pagan Kings in the Tanakh whom God used mighty to accomplish His purposes.

    “It is so out there in left field.”
    Time will tell. I’m happy to be proven wrong. If the Shah of Iran’s government being taken over by Islamists, and Egypt, Tunisia and Libya recently being taken over by Islamists is all just a coincidence, ok. Perhaps I’m reading way too much into it and I don’t understand the prophetic scriptures.

    But if this tread continues to increase and ten nations give their sovereignty over to the head of a newly established Islamic Caliphate who then gives permission to the Jews to build the temple and later sits in the temple of God, then…

    Again, time will tell and I’m more than happy to be proven wrong.

20. David, Cyrus may have been the most pagan man who ever lived. That’s not my issue at all. The point is that God caused the Temple to be rebuilt; it was not the work of man and your Cyrus comment was completely off point. It’s important that you recognize that. As for a Temple built before the return of Jesus, if God causes it to happen, it is for final judgment, not blessing. That old system, in this age, is over. Whether there will be a future millennial Temple with sacrifices remains an area of dispute, based on lots of scriptural evidence on both sides (and I know we differ on that assessment). This much is clear: Our only hope is the blood of Yeshua, God’s Son and Himself God. I do hope you can fully affirm that.

21. “The point is that God caused the Temple to be rebuilt; it was not the work of man”

    I agree 100%, and I believe God Himself will cause “the temple of God” to be built as indicated in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and the fact that the AntiChrist will authorise it will have zero relevance whatsoever, just as Cyrus authorising it had zero relevance since God was the truly one who caused it to happen.

    “As for a Temple built before the return of Jesus, if God causes it to happen, it is for final judgment, not blessing.”

    The Jewish people have been in mourning ever since the temple was destroyed. I don’t see how having the temple of God amongst us again would not be a blessing, though its defilement and desolation clearly wouldn’t be.

    “That old system, in this age, is over.”
    Some people felt like that after the first temple was destroyed too, but I see too much scripture supporting the temple service as being part of New Covenant faith to say it’s over, but I would say it’s passing away and I eagerly look forward to the new earth where there will be no temple, only God and the lamb being our temple. What an awesome eternity that will be!

    “This much is clear: Our only hope is the blood of Yeshua, God’s Son and Himself God. I do hope you can fully affirm that.”

    I do, though how he is himself God I would say that is because the father’s divinity fills him, but I could be wrong in how I understand it.

22. Just for the record, I don’t believe I’ve ever said non-Jews should try to live like Jews, otherwise he’d have to eat Chinese food at Christmas, or even worse, maybe go off to a gay Jewish nightclub in Tel Aviv, but I do believe that Gentiles that love God should become Geirim and that Geirim should live as Ezraḥim.

    מִשְׁפַּט אֶחָד יִהְיֶה לָכֶם כַּגֵּר כָּאֶזְרָח יהיה כִּי אֲנִי יהוה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם
    Leviticus 24:22

    וְכִי יָגוּר אִתְּכֶם גֵּר וְעָשָׂה פֶסַח ליהוה כְּחֻקַּת הַפֶּסַח וּכְמִשְׁפָּטוֹ כֵּן יַעֲשֶׂה חֻקָּה אַחַת יִהְיֶה לָכֶם וְלַגֵּר וּלְאֶזְרַח הָאָרֶץ
    Numbers 9:14

    וְכִי יָגוּר אִתְּכֶם גֵּר אוֹ אֲשֶׁר בְּתוֹכְכֶם לְדֹרֹתֵיכֶם וְעָשָׂה אִשֵּׁה רֵיחַ נִיחֹחַ ליהוה כַּאֲשֶׁר תַּעֲשׂוּ כֵּן יַעֲשֶׂה
    הַקָּהָל חֻקָּה אַחַת לָכֶם וְלַגֵּר הַגָּר חֻקַּת עוֹלָם לְדֹרֹתֵיכֶם כָּכֶם כַּגֵּר יִהְיֶה לִפְנֵי יהוה
    תּוֹרָה אַחַת וּמִשְׁפָּט אֶחָד יִהְיֶה לָכֶם וְלַגֵּר הַגָּר אִתְּכֶם.
    Numbers 15:14-16

    הָאֶזְרָח בִּבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלַגֵּר הַגָּר בְּתוֹכָם תּוֹרָה אַחַת יִהְיֶה לָכֶם לָעֹשֶׂה בִּשְׁגָגָה
    Numbers 15:29

    אַתֶּם נִצָּבִים הַיּוֹם כֻּלְּכֶם לִפְנֵי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם …גֵרְךָ אֲשֶׁר בְּקֶרֶב מַחֲנֶיךָ …לְעָבְרְךָ בִּבְרִית יהוה אֱלֹהֶיךָ וּבְאָלָתוֹ אֲשֶׁר יהוה אֱלֹהֶיךָ כֹּרֵת עִמְּךָ הַיּוֹם …וְלֹא אִתְּכֶם לְבַדְּכֶם אָנֹכִי כֹּרֵת אֶת הַבְּרִית הַזֹּאת וְאֶת-הָאָלָה הַזֹּאת …כִּי אֶת אֲשֶׁר יֶשְׁנוֹ פֹּה עִמָּנוּ עֹמֵד הַיּוֹם לִפְנֵי יהוה אֱלֹהֵינוּ וְאֵת אֲשֶׁר אֵינֶנּוּ פֹּה עִמָּנוּ הַיּוֹם.
    Deuteronomy 29:10-15

    הַקְהֵל אֶת …גֵרְךָ אֲשֶׁר בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ לְמַעַן יִשְׁמְעוּ וּלְמַעַן יִלְמְדוּ וְיָרְאוּ אֶת יהוה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם וְשָׁמְרוּ לַעֲשׂוֹת אֶת כָּל דִּבְרֵי הַתּוֹרָה הַזֹּאת.
    Deuteronomy 31:12

23. David,

    How interesting that in #22, you had to quote all verses from the Tanakh — and all under the Sinai covenant. Move forward, David, not backwards.

24. (Like)

25. sorry about entering the discussion a few days late.
    Present tents 🙂
    Who (among Rep. contenders; I don’t see our current Prez doing it) is going to endorse and support the building of the Third Temple?
    Are we all agreed that it will be built before Yeshua returns? (I disagree that Arabs will have anything to do with it). Who is the best Koresh (Cyrus) candidate?
    In Him, Ron M.

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