Dr. Brown Answers Your Questions

1. Dr. Brown,
   Why does Luke 21:24

   Luk 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

   …say (I’m assuming it is speaking of the Jews — if not, please tell me who it could be) “They will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations…”?

   If this is a FUTURE event, HOW could this happen, if [Amos 9] they can never be removed from Israel, again?…

   Amo 9:15 I will plant them on their Land, and they shall NEVER AGAIN BE UPROOTED out of the Land that I have given them,” says the LORD your God.

   If Luke, therefore, cannot be speaking of PAST events (since another departure from their own land is impossible in the FUTURE) how can the abomination of desolation spoken of in Luke be parallel to the abomination of desolation spoken of in Matthew 24:15-21?

   Doesn’t it mean that Luke thought the Abomination of Desolation occurred in 70 A.D.?

   If the Luke 21 passage says the “Abomination of Desolation” happened PAST-TENSE, then, wouldn’t the “Great Tribulation” (which logically would follows an “Abomination that makes Desolate”) have begun 2,000 years ago?
   Since this is an impossibility (Jesus, in Revelation 2, threatens to FUTURE-TENSE throw Jezebel and her children into Great Tribulation; He also promises to keep a certain church through the time of testing that will FUTURE-TENSE come upon the earth to test all who dwell upon the earth), is it possible that Luke is not infallible/inspired by the Holy Spirit?

   What else could the explanation be for this error? I just want to believe the Truth, and I see problems with Luke. He also says things contrary to Matthew and Mark — that the thief on the cross does NOT curse Jesus (as Matthew and Mark testify).

   I just think it is odd that in one case, people prove the trustworthiness/”inspiredness” of the Bible by citing the fact that so many authors who didn’t know each other say the exact same message; but, at other times (when it is more convenient — such as with the differing testimonies of the Synoptic Gospel writers), they use a different (mutually exclusive) argument: “when police gather testimony from eyewitnesses, if they give the exact same testimony, it is proof that it is false; if they give varying testimonies — which thing is more natural — it proves that they are telling the Truth” — to prove the “inspiredness” of the texts.

   You do see that these two arguments are mutually-exclusive, right? I just want to believe what ever is 100% trustworthy; I do not want to base my beliefs on something which isn’t trustworthy.

2. How is God’s providence shown in self inflicted accidental death of a believer? I understand we live in a fallen world and God is in control, but?

3. Dr. Brown,

   For the lady that called in about witnessing to a man at the cafe:

   Here is a good article that is worth reading through, about personal hedges. I remember my college group pastor teaching us about hedges/boundaries when it came to dealing with the opposite sex. It proved great wisdom for me and I still hold to and respect these personal hedges.

   Personal Hedges, by Nancy Leigh DeMoss
   http://www.truewoman.com/?id=415

   Trezeguet

4. Dear Dr. Brown & Staff,

   Here is the MP3 for Dr. Brown’s debate with rabbi Immanuel Schochet.

   🙂

5. http://uptojerusalem.com/jukebox.asp?source=audio/ImmanuelSchochet.mp3

6. Thanks, Eric! Just out of curiosity, have you listened to it in full? The one we had online in the past was missing some parts, at which we realized that we had to look for the old masters (audio and video). Again, thanks!

7. You’re welcome! I did listen to it a few months ago and I don’t remember there being any missing parts. I am listening to it again though right now and I will let you know if there are any parts with audio issues or anything of that nature.

   Lord bless you.

8. Ah.. Yes there are missing parts here. Sorry about that. If I can find the full version I will let you know! Sorry again.

9. Thanks! We’re searching too!

10. Hello,I am only an unregenerate Gentile who has some familiarity with Holy Scripture ; I am also familiar with some matters (and wineskins) that (intentionally or more likely,unintentionally) serve to desalinate and disempower (and leave unprepared) the British and American contingent of the Bride. That said,here is a comment.

    I notice that Michael told a caller the Holy Spirit comes to live within a believer from the moment they are saved.That is a standard (and perhaps sacrosanct) belief among Cessationists and Pentecostals – but is it the TRUTH ?

    Pentecostals,thankfully,have REDISCOVERED the biblical baptism in the Holy Spirit,but alas,and perhaps because the implications are enormous,or because the view is so deeply entrenched in Augustinian and Wesleyan Protestantism,they have adopted the Cessationist idea of an automatic indwelling at conversion,and therefore,have come to view baptism in the Holy Spirit and as event that is SUBSEQUENT and seperate from rebirth and indwelling.Without meaning to,they have thereby demoted baptism in the Holy Spirit to an optional extra,and thereby shot themselves in the foot with regard to the primary importance of bringing Cessationists to a more accurate understanding of the narrow Way (similarly,Dispensationlists REDISCOVERED the millennial reign of Christ,but,alas,this has become attached to their misteaching of a PRE-Tribulation rapture of the Bride.)

    Cessationism,with its automatic indwelling idea,comes to us,I believe,from the men of violence known as the Magisterial Reformers,who threw out spiritual phenomena with the superstitious Catholic bathwater – leaving themselves,and millions today,with a dry intellectual faith.

    One of the finest Bible teachers on this first earth would take issue with that notion of SUBSEQUENCE,one David Pawson. Michael has in the past recommended two of David’s books,’Once Saved,Always Saved?’ and ‘When Jesus Returns’. I think it would be great if Michael would invite David on his show,in order to hammer this out,in love.

    In the meantime,anyone who thinks to be INDWELLED by the Holy Spirit is a seperate matter from BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit,would have themselves a very challenging and profitable workout by reading David’s book on this subject (in paperback or ebook form) : ‘Jesus Baptises in One Holy Spirit’.

    http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Baptises-Holy-Spirit-ebook/dp/B00514II68/ref=sr_1_13?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327314475&sr=1-13

    Michael,three requests :
    1)PLEASE hammer this out,in love,with David on your radio show.
    2)PLEASE hammer this out,in love,with David on your radio show !
    3)PLEASE hammer this out,in love,with David on your radio show !!

11. By the way,in that ebook link,using Amazon’s LOOK INSIDE facility,by clicking through on ‘Beginning’,you can read the Foreword and Prologue for free.

    David was concerted aound 1947,aged 17,but it was not until 1964 that he understood was it was to be baptised in the Holy Spirit. The prologue contains his testimony.

12. I’ve gone and written a fuller piece that supersedes the previous two posts on here :
    —————
    Hello,I am only an unregenerate Gentile who has some familiarity with Holy Scripture ; I am also familiar with some matters (and wineskins) that (intentionally or more likely,unintentionally) serve to disempower and desalinate (and leave unprepared) the British and American contingent of the Bride. That said,and in regard to something that has disempowered the Bride for long enough,here is a comment.

    I notice that Michael told a caller (on Jan/20/2012) the Holy Spirit comes to live within a believer from the moment they are saved. I presume Michael means right from the moment they first intellectually accept that Jesus gave Himself for their sins and decide to change their mindset and lifestyle thereafter,with Jesus as their Master – as expressed in a ‘Sinner’s Prayer’. That automatic indwelling view is a standard (and perhaps sacrosanct) belief among Cessationists and Pentecostals alike – but is it PLUMB TRUTH ?

    Cessationists think to have been converted is to have been baptised in the Holy Spirit,whereas Pentecostals,thankfully,have REDISCOVERED the authentic,experiential,biblical baptism in the Holy Spirit. Alas,and perhaps because the implications are so enormous (or because the view is so deeply entrenched in Augustinian and Wesleyan Protestantism),Pentecostal believers have adopted the Cessationist idea of an automatic indwelling at conversion,and therefore,Pentecostals have come to view baptism in the Holy Spirit as an event that is SUBSEQUENT (and separate) from rebirth and being indwelled.

    Without meaning to,Pentecostals have thereby demoted baptism in the Holy Spirit to an optional extra,and shot themselves in the foot with regard to the primary importance of bringing Cessationists to a more accurate and fuller understanding of the narrow Way.( Likewise on the REDISCOVERY FRONT,by the way,Dispensationlists rediscovered the millennial reign of Christ,but,alas,that BEDROCK TRUTH has seemingly and unfortunately become inextricably attached,in the perception of many,to their misteaching of a PRE-Tribulation rapture of the Bride.)

    Cessationism,with its automatic indwelling idea,comes to us,I believe,NOT from a totally OBJECTIVE view of Holy Scripture,but from the men of violence known as the Magisterial Reformers – they threw out spiritual phenomena with the superstitious Catholic bathwater,leaving themselves,and millions today,with a dry intellectual faith.

    As an unregenerate Gentile,I cannot discuss this integral facet of the narrow Way and of disciplehood,from personal experience – but David Pawson CAN. David,a man who knows the Holy Spirit,PENTECOSTALLY (in the sense of Acts 2:4,rather than standard Pentecostal views questioned here) is one of the finest Bible teachers on this first earth (in the eyes of Mike Bickle among others).Furthermore,Michael L Brown has in the past recommended two of David’s books,’Once Saved,Always Saved?’ and ‘When Jesus Returns’. David takes issue with the standard Pentecostal notion of ‘SUBSEQUENCE’ – indeed,it may be fair to describe this contention of his,as one of his major burdens. I think it would be great if Michael would invite David on his show,in order to hammer this out,IN LOVE.

    In the meantime,anyone who thinks that BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit is a SEPARATE and SUBSEQUENT event to being INDWELLED by the Holy Spirit,would have themselves a very challenging and profitable workout by reading David’s book on this subject (in paperback or ebook form) : ‘Jesus Baptises in One Holy Spirit’.

    In that ebook link,and by clicking through on ‘Beginning’ in Amazon’s LOOK INSIDE facility,you can read the Foreword and Prologue of the book for free.

    David was converted around 1947,aged 17,but it was not until 1964 that he understood was it was to be baptised in the Holy Spirit in the Acts 2:4 manner. The Prologue contains his testimony.

    http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Baptises-Holy-Spirit-ebook/dp/B00514II68/ref=sr_1_13?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327314475&sr=1-13

    Michael,three requests :
    1)PLEASE hammer this out,in love,with David on your radio show.
    2)PLEASE hammer this out,in love,with David on your radio show !
    3)PLEASE hammer this out,in love,with David on your radio show !!

13. re. #1: reoccurring themes, such as
    the Day of the LORD’ are found many times in the NT- so to say that everything has already been ‘totally-fulfilled’ can lead to a legalistic or historical interpretation of the Bible that becomes myth or allegory, and ignores unfulfilled prophecies still present in the OT. This danger in what I call post-Pauline theology can also lead to the ‘indwelling’ v. ‘born-again’ argument in #10 (12); if the Holy Spirit is ‘present’ at Salvation but there is no further ‘instruction’ by Him in our heart-temple, this leaves the interpretation of Scripture (the Word) as the only CORRECT means of knowing the Way, so makes the teachers (pastors, rabbis, professors) of utmost importance; more so even than the Bible itself. This is the present danger I see the most as we decide between two Catholics, a Freemason, a Mormon, and a Universalist (I guess) for Commander-in-Chief of the U.S.A.
    Why all the discussion about Mary Queen of Heaven on a parallel blog? For one thing, no one wants to talk about Tithing, for this all becomes critical as to WHO the tithe is given. I say the Window of Heaven has not been opened because no one has followed Father GOD’s instruction and properly established the Storehouse (see Nehemiah 13 concerning Tobiah), and instead has brought the curse of Malachi 4:6 upon us all. Any comments?

    In Him, Ron M.

14. Ron David Metcalf,
    This is hardly an answer.

    Why are people thinking they’re going to “win their nation”?? This is utterly un-biblical; what they should be preparing for is DEATH, and DEATH at the hands of people who think they are doing “God” — even our very own Lord, “Jesus” — a service!

15. I’ll try to be brief:
    “Winning our nation” I would say is based on the latter-half of Joel 2 in coordination with latter Zachariah (both unfulfilled) in preparation for the Day of the LORD in Joel 3 and Revelation prophecy paralleling Ezekiel and Daniel (both prophets were in exile). We may be beyond a last-day revival, but there’s still hope; I’m not ready to crawl into a cave yet, when I see that GOD will relent a season for the sake of ten.
    Also, death precedes resurrection. This is always the hope of the gospel I preach. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” is as valid now as when John the Baptist and Jesus first began saying it; every day we draw closer to the end, both in our own lives, and Armageddon. Repentance without revival is dead religion; revival without repentance is new age filth.

    In Him, Ron M.

16. anon

    Still no answer on the first part; on the second part, why not merely preach the Gospel, instead of thinking you are going to win the nation (contrary to Scripture)? I don’t get it.

17. i blew my cover ! LOL

18. Dan a.k.a. anon:
    You think Dr. Brown is watching you; if Pr. Obama is reelected, you may be one of the first to be sent to the ‘reeducation’ camps to learn by force why the Bible has been replaced by global leadership. This has been prophesized for decades.
    ‘Freedom of speech’ is not dead yet. No, you won’t specifically find this in Scripture; but you won’t specifically find blogging on the internet in Scripture, either. It has taken 2000 years to get to the point we can talk about these things openly without being excommunicated or burned at the stake for being politically incorrect; now you want to offer your neck to an Arab machete without a fight?
    There is a big difference between meekness and surrender to dictatorship; have you learned nothing from the past year?
    In Him, Ron M.

19. Ron,
    I don’t care about physical killers; my trouble is with spiritual killers, leading me away from Christ, to other gods, which can kill my SPIRIT… understand? I am not afraid of death if I am in right standing with God.

20. No disagreement there, Dan.
    So, how does turning our nation back to GOD kill our Spirit, if we are extremely careful not to covenant with politicians (as an aside, I was very upset that @150 Church leaders would tell us to vote for one candidate. Since they did this publicly, I would like a list of their names). Yes, evangelizing the lost can hurt your Spirit; I found this out quickly in dealing with the homeless, in working in group homes, and in witnessing to native Americans, for example. But I was not called to monastic contemplation. Neither was Jesus. Sacrifice hurts.
    In Him, Ron M.

21. I’ve watched your videos on Youtube about wearing the Kippah, you said that you felt those who wore it are non-believing Jews.

    However, I seen a photo of you on Facebook at the wailing wall wearing a Kippah. How is this possible?

22. RDM,
    There isn’t a single Scripture that promises “the nation will turn back to God” — people FROM the nations will turn to God; however, there isn’t a single instance of an entire nation being devoted to God in all the Scriptures.

    What is there? Tons of persecution, and division (Christ brought a sword, to divide dark from light); therefore, I am not with the false hope of winning a nation.

23. Even Jesus couldn’t win a whole nation (Israel).

24. Okay, Dan, I’ll let you win this one. We’ll all do what we can, keep praying, and see what happens.
    In Him, Ron M.

25. RDM,
    Let the Truth win, and let us merely work the yoke.

26. I really Wish Dr. Michael Brown would dialogue with a Oneness Pentecostal. I know a young man who would certainly be willing to interact with Dr. Brown regarding this topic.

27. This post supersedes all my posts on this thread,including number 12.
    ————————–

    Hello,I am only an unregenerate Gentile who has some familiarity with Holy Scripture ; I am also familiar with some matters (and wineskins) that (intentionally or more likely,unintentionally) serve to disempower and desalinate (and leave unprepared) the British and American contingent of the Bride. May anything I say here that is not true be flushed out of a reader’s mind by the living God and His Holy Scriptures before it does any harm ; fallible nobody though I be,may anything I say here that is close enough to plumb truth,be given an OBJECTIVE hearing.That said,and in regard to something that has disempowered the Bride for long enough,here is a comment.

    I notice that Michael told a caller (on January/20/2012) the Holy Spirit comes to live within a believer from the moment they are saved. I presume Michael means right from the moment they first intellectually accept that Jesus gave Himself for their sins and decide to change their mindset and lifestyle thereafter,with Jesus as their Master – as expressed in a ‘Sinner’s Prayer’. That automatic indwelling view is a standard (and perhaps sacrosanct) belief among Cessationists and Pentecostals alike – but is it correct,is it PLUMB TRUTH ?

    Cessationists think to have been converted is to have been baptised in the Holy Spirit,whereas Pentecostals,thankfully,have REDISCOVERED the authentic,experiential,biblical baptism in the Holy Spirit. Alas,and perhaps because the implications are so enormous (or because certain practices and views are so deeply entrenched in both Augustinian and Wesleyan Protestantism),Pentecostal believers have taken a number of QUESTIONABLE POSITIONS.

    Firstly,Pentecostals have adopted the Cessationist idea of an automatic indwelling of the Holy Spirit at conversion.

    Holy Scripture informs us that Jesus does not presently walk among His own down here on earth,but has returned to His Father above. Therefore,Holy Scripture tells people not to RECEIVE Jesus,but to believe INTO Him – when it comes to RECEIVING down here on earth,this word has been transfered to the third equal Person ; to the Holy Spirit. This transferal has NOT been made by mainstream Evangelicals,who still use ‘receive’ ONGOINGLY in the manner John spoke of HISTORICALLY ( John 1:9-14 -refering to when Jesus physically walked the land of Israel). Furthermore,in the book of Acts we find that to be BAPTISED in the Holy Spirit and to RECEIVE the Holy Spirit are refered to as one and the same event (note Acts 1:8,Acts 2:4,Acts 8:18,Acts 10:44-47,Acts 12:16 and Acts 19:1-7).Secondly therefore,Pentecostals have ALSO adopted the Cessationist practice of telling people to ‘receive Jesus as Savior’ (based on John 1),and as a result,Pentecostals have come to think of BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit as also being distinct from RECEIVING the Holy Spirit.

    Thirdly,Pentecostals think of baptism in the Holy Spirit as being primarily to EQUIP some (but not necessarily all) believers with POWER for SERVICE (noting of course Acts 1:8). But baptism in,and reception of,the Holy Spirit,is actually intended for the Body-wide ASSURANCE,EQUIPPING,RENEWAL,SANCTIFICATION,conscious COMPANIONSHIP and GUIDANCE,of every single member of the Bride (AERSCG : A – Romans 8:16,1 John 3:24,1 John 4:13 ; E – 1 Corinthians 14:1,12 ; R – Titus 3:5 ; S – Romans 1:4,1 Corinthinas 6:11,2 Thessalonians 2:13,1 Peter 1:2,Galatians 5:22-23 ; C – John 14:16-18, 2 Corinthians 13:14 ; G – Romans 8:14,Galatians 5:18.)

    As a result of adopting those two Cessationist positions,together with the overemphasis on ‘power for service’,Pentecostals have come to view baptism in the Holy Spirit as an event that is SUBSEQUENT (and separate) from rebirth,from receiving,and from being indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Without meaning to,Pentecostals have thereby demoted baptism in the Holy Spirit to an optional (or possible) extra ; again,without meaning to,in regard to sharing the news of their vital spiritual rediscovery and the primary importance of bringing Cessationists to a more accurate and fuller understanding of the narrow Way,Pentecostals have thereby shot themselves in the foot – on two counts.

    (Likewise on the REDISCOVERY FRONT,by the way,Dispensationalists rediscovered the millennial reign of Christ,but,alas,that BEDROCK TRUTH has seemingly and unfortunately become inextricably attached,in the perception of many,to their misteaching of a PRE-Tribulation rapture of the Bride.)

    Firstly,the very word SUBSEQUENCE puts a Cessationist on guard.

    Secondly,as a result of adopting the two aforementioned practices of Cessationists,together with the idea that the primary purpose (of baptism in the Holy Spirit) is power for service by some but not all believers,Pentecostals therefore,lack a sense of the importance of bringing Cessationists up to speed (so to speak) – and Cessationists,in turn (and with regard to their need of assurance equipment,renewal,sanctification,companionship and guidance),are therefore given no sense of their own serious lack and deficiency. (Cessationists tend to derive assurance from something the early disciples never had – the Holy Bible.)

    The behavior of some Pentecostals is a further hindrance : when Cessationists hear a Pentecostal using the gift of tongues without interpretation in a meeting (in contravention of 1 Corinthians 14:27-28),or when they observe what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be irreverent worship by some Pentecostals,or when they note the worldy manner some Pentecostals display in daily life,or when they see the immodest clothes that some Pentecostals wear – Cessationists are not exactly impressed ; their ears can become tragically closed to the vital Acts 2:4 testimony of Pentecostal believers.

    The idea that a believer is automatically indwelled at conversion,comes to us,I believe,NOT from a totally OBJECTIVE view of Holy Scripture,but from the men of violence known as the Magisterial Reformers – they (sincerely or insincerely) threw out spiritual phenomena with the superstitious Catholic bathwater,leaving themselves,and millions today,with a dry intellectual faith. (For an account of their repulsive fruit – if a spade is still a spade.that is – read Leonard Verduin’s book ‘The Reformers and Their Stepchildren’.)

    http://www.amazon.com/Reformers-Their-Stepchildren-Dissent-Nonconformity/dp/1579789358/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_pap?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325147580&sr=1-1

    As an unregenerate Gentile,I cannot discuss this integral facet of the narrow Way and of disciplehood,from personal experience – but David Pawson CAN. David,a man who knows the Holy Spirit,PENTECOSTALLY (in the sense of Acts 2:4,rather than standard Pentecostal views questioned here) is one of the finest Bible teachers on this first earth (in the eyes of Mike Bickle among others).Furthermore,Michael L Brown has in the past recommended two of David’s books,’Once Saved,Always Saved?’ and ‘When Jesus Returns’. David takes issue with the standard Pentecostal notion of ‘SUBSEQUENCE’ – indeed,it may be fair to describe this contention of his,as one of his major burdens. I think it would be great if Michael would invite David on his show,in order to hammer this out,IN LOVE.

    In the meantime,anyone who thinks that BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit is a SEPARATE and SUBSEQUENT event to RECEIVING and being INDWELLED by the Holy Spirit,would have themselves a very challenging and profitable workout by reading David’s book on this subject (in paperback or ebook form) : ‘Jesus Baptises in One Holy Spirit’.

    In that ebook link,and by clicking through on ‘Beginning’ in Amazon’s LOOK INSIDE facility,you can read the foreword and prologue of the book for free.

    David was converted around 1947,aged 17,but it was not until 1964 that he understood what it was to RECEIVE and be BAPTISED in the Holy Spirit,in the Acts 2:4 manner. The prologue contains his testimony in this regard.

    http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Baptises-Holy-Spirit-ebook/dp/B00514II68/ref=sr_1_13?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327314475&sr=1-13

    Acts 18:24 to Acts 19:7. Because so much of what Evangelicals teach and practice today,stems NOT from a balanced,OBJECTIVE understanding of the Holy Scriptures of God,but from the writings of the Magisterial Reformers,Paul’s question to those at Ephesus in his day,still needs to be asked – in love – in ours : if a man wants to make it round a golf course,he needs various clubs in his bag to deal with different shots ; if a man takes a job at a construction firm,his employer supplies him with the necesssary tools for the house he has to build. Sincere but uninformed Cessationist congregations,are akin to a golfer with no clubs to weild,or a construction worker with no hammer,saw and chisel (etc.) to build a house. Pentecostal congregations meanwhile,in addition to their overemphasis on ‘power for service’,have not learned the lessons of 1 Corinthians 12 – 14 with regard to the proper usage of the nine gifts of the Spirit for the building of the Bride – furthermore,the worldly lifestyle that some Pentecostals lead is a serious barrier to opening the ears of Cessationists to a more accurate and fuller understanding of the narrow Way. As the 42 month warfare of the beast gets closer,it becomes ever more urgent to sort out such matters.

    Now please – go and read David Pawson’s testimony.

    (Michael,PLEASE get David Pawson on your radio show,and hammer this out,in love.)

28. Mark,
    I strongly suggest The Word and the Spirit, Paul Cain and R.T. Kendall (lectures), a short volume by Creation House (Strang Com.) in the U.S., Kingsway Publ. U.K. 1996, as to an accepted Prophet and a noted Divinity Professor trying to join and understand each other. They later parted ways, and I’m not sure the controversy has been sorted out yet (not to my knowledge); the subsequent history of their associations and acquaintances would be quite instructive as to the division you are feeling; and I am not an insider concerning what is going on in their lives at present; but this attempt at finding unity in the body of Christ was somewhat exceptional, then and now. It is sad that this is as good as I can offer you on the subject; perhaps others have found better cooperative efforts?
    In Him, Ron M.

29. http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pub/reports/201112PSI_issue.html?loc=interstitialskip

    Just as Turkey has decided recently to double its 500,000 member sized army, as an employment method when dealing with a turbulent economic unemployment state, I predict many other nations will follow suit, and will ultimately look for somewhere to use their newly established armies numbers outside their own borders, in order to expell probable civil unrest. –Jabez

30. Thankyou for your response Ron

    I wish R T Kendall well,may he finish up in the new Jerusalem with the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb (David is a friend or R T )

    R T however,is misled by OSAS,Ron are u aware of the fruits of the OSAS-fathers,so to speak,here is a link to a free article

    http://www.revivaltheology.net/1_cal_arm/ashes.html

    The tragic wonkey polartisation beneath the evangelical umbreall (my phrase) is addressed in a superb book by David called Word and Spirit together – available in ebook and paperback

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056OC9Z4/ref=s9_simh_se_p351_d2_g351_i5?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=auto-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=CBFD72E859EF4A228A21&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1263465782&pf_rd_i=pawsontogether

    with regard to the wonkeyness,pasting something Iwrote about it to someone once :

    With regard to ‘formal’ and ‘charismatic’ evangelicals,in a formal setting we may find people sitting,in smart clothes,in front of a man known as ‘the minister’ ; in a ‘charismatic’ setting we may find people standing,in casual clothes,in front of a man or woman known as ‘the worship leader’.

    The problem with the former,is that yes,they do like listening to Holy Scripture being read,but what about the nine spiritual gifts for the edification of the Body – where are they ?

    The problem with the latter is that yes,they are familiar with gifts of the Holy Spirit,but what about objective,effective,step-by-step teaching of Holy Scripture for the training,correcting and equipping of the man [and woman] of God – where is that ?

    Both sides may be in denial of their unbalanced position.

    Both sides may [sincerely] believe/insist they are basing their practices on Holy Scripture.
    Both sides need to take a leaf from the other’s book.

    Sorry about spelling mistakes,I am posting this response to you quick.

    Thankyou again Ron – read that free article on the fruit.

31. Jabez and Mark,
    skimmed, copied, and pasted for later prayerful consideration (I mean it).
    Mark, it is hard for me also not to take sides against Calvinism, especially concerning GOD giving me a heart for Native Americans. I have written a few pieces on Pilgims v. Puritans in the past; but super-spirituality (short of Gnosticism) can have a downside too; and this has mostly to do with freedom in the Spirit v. authority (what I sometimes call the aviary effect; ask Dr. Brown why his former senior pastor is in Fla. this weekend at the very place I first ‘saw’ this). As to recent comments (going blog-blind on which is what) despairing completely on politics as the answer, I understand both sides and ask, “What is our present alternative?” Yes, GOD and prayer, but corporate gatherings have become more and more political, so anytime I ‘go to Church’ (rather than BEING the Church) this becomes an issue.
    Jabez, I have been watching Istanbul (ancient Constantinople) as a link between Islam, Orthodox, and Catholic unity for years; the dividing line between the apostate and the true apostolic is still sometimes hard to discern.
    In Him, Ron M.

32. Thanks Ron

    Personally,I would like as many people as possible to OBJECTIVELY make the connection between the ACID TEST of Jesus in Matthew 12:33-37,and the ACIDIC WORDS of John Calvin on February 13,1546

33. Just to add the following :

    I once heard a talk of DavidPawson,where he mentions a time he took a Romanian Baptist elder to the service of a Charismatic Baptist congregation in England ; having seen the immodestly dressed female worship leader and the actual service,he said to David,afterwards, ‘If that’s “Charismatic ” we don’t want it’.

34. I’ve given my previous piece a further carving !
    ————————

    Hello,I am only an unregenerate Gentile who has some familiarity with Holy Scripture ; I am also familiar with some matters (and wineskins) that (intentionally or more likely,unintentionally) serve to disempower and desalinate (and leave unprepared) the British and American contingent of the Bride. May anything I say here that is not true be flushed out of a reader’s mind by the living God and His Holy Scriptures before it does any harm ; fallible nobody though I be,may anything I say here that is close enough to plumb truth,be given an OBJECTIVE hearing.That said,and in regard to something that has disempowered the Bride for long enough,here is a comment.

    I notice that Michael told a caller (on January/20/2012) the Holy Spirit comes to live within a believer from the moment they are saved. I presume Michael means right from the moment they first intellectually accept that Jesus gave Himself for their sins and decide to change their mindset and lifestyle thereafter,with Jesus as their Master – as expressed in a ‘Sinner’s Prayer’. Belief in an AUTOMATIC and UNCONSCIOUS indwelling by the Holy Spirit,is a standard (and perhaps sacrosanct) belief among Cessationists and Pentecostals alike – but is it correct,is it PLUMB TRUTH ?

    Cessationists think to have been converted is to have RECEIVED and been BAPTISED in the Holy Spirit,whereas Pentecostals,thankfully,have REDISCOVERED (so to speak) the authentic,experiential,biblical reception of,and baptism in,the Holy Spirit – the trouble is,Pentecostals do not see it quite like that. Alas,and perhaps because the implications are so enormous (or because certain practices and views are so deeply entrenched in both Calvinistic and Wesleyan Protestantism),Pentecostal believers have unfortunately taken two QUESTIONABLE POSITIONS.

    Firstly,Pentecostals have adopted the Cessationist practice of telling people to receive Jesus,rather than the Holy Spirit. Holy Scripture,however,informs us that Jesus does not presently walk among His own down here on earth,but has returned to His Father above. Therefore,Holy Scripture tells people not to RECEIVE Jesus,but to believe INTO Him – when it comes to RECEIVING Someone down here on earth,this word has been transfered to the third equal Person ; to the Holy Spirit. This change has NOT been made by mainstream Evangelicals,who still use ‘receive’ ONGOINGLY in the manner John spoke of HISTORICALLY ( John 1:9-14 -refering to when Jesus physically walked the land of Israel). Furthermore,in the book of Acts we find that to RECEIVE the Holy Spirit and to be BAPTISED in the Holy Spirit are refered to as one and the same event (note Acts 1:8,Acts 2:4,Acts 8:18,Acts 10:44-47,Acts 12:16 and Acts 19:1-7).As a result of telling people to ‘receive Jesus as Savior’ (based on John 1),Pentecostals have therefore come to think of BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit as being distinct from RECEIVING the Holy Spirit.

    Secondly,Pentecostals think of BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit as being primarily to EQUIP some (but not necessarily all) believers with POWER for SERVICE (noting of course Acts 1:8). But baptism in,and reception of,the Holy Spirit,is actually intended for the Body-wide ASSURANCE,EQUIPPING,RENEWAL,SANCTIFICATION,conscious COMPANIONSHIP and GUIDANCE,of every single member of the Bride (AERSCG : A – Romans 8:16,1 John 3:24,1 John 4:13 ; E – 1 Corinthians 14:1,12 ; R – Titus 3:5 ; S – Romans 1:4,1 Corinthinas 6:11,2 Thessalonians 2:13,1 Peter 1:2,Galatians 5:22-23 ; C – John 14:16-18, 2 Corinthians 13:14 ; G – Romans 8:14,Galatians 5:18.)

    Without meaning to,and in regard to the primary importance of bringing Cessationists to a more accurate and fuller understanding of the narrow Way (by sharing their spiritual and biblical rediscovery),Pentecostals have shot themselves in the foot : as a result of adopting the practice of telling people to RECEIVE Jesus,together with the idea that the primary purpose (of baptism in the Holy Spirit) is power for service by some but not all believers,Pentecostals have come to view baptism in the Holy Spirit as an event that is SUBSEQUENT (and separate) from regeneration,and from receiving and being indwelled by the Holy Spirit ; without meaning to,Pentecostals have thereby demoted baptism in the Holy Spirit to an optional (or possible) extra. Pentecostals therefore lack a sense of the importance of bringing Cessationists up to speed (so to speak) – and Cessationists,in turn (and with regard to their need of assurance equipment,renewal,sanctification,companionship and guidance),are therefore given no sense of their own serious lack and deficiency. (Cessationists tend to derive assurance from something the early disciples never had – the Holy Bible. Furthermore,the very word SUBSEQUENCE is enough to put a Cessationist on guard.)

    The behavior of some Pentecostals is a further hindrance : when Cessationists hear a Pentecostal using the gift of tongues without interpretation in a meeting (in contravention of 1 Corinthians 14:27-28),or when they observe what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be irreverent worship by some Pentecostals,or when they note the worldy manner some Pentecostals display in daily life,or when they see the immodest clothes that some Pentecostals wear – Cessationists are not impressed ; their ears can become tragically closed to the vital Acts 2:4 testimony of Pentecostal believers.

    The idea that a believer is automatically indwelled at conversion,comes to us,I believe,NOT from a totally OBJECTIVE view of Holy Scripture,but from the men of violence known as the Magisterial Reformers – they (sincerely or insincerely) threw out spiritual phenomena with the superstitious Catholic bathwater,leaving themselves,and millions today,with a dry intellectual faith. (A free article on John Calvin’s fruit has been written by Daniel Corner ; for an more in-depth account of the repulsive fruit of the Magisterial Reformers – if a spade is still a spade,that is – read Leonard Verduin’s book ‘The Reformers and Their Stepchildren’.)

    Daniel’s article :

    http://www.revivaltheology.net/1_cal_arm/ashes.html

    Leonard’s book :

    http://www.amazon.com/Reformers-Their-Stepchildren-Dissent-Nonconformity/dp/1579789358/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_pap?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325147580&sr=1-1

    As an unregenerate Gentile,I cannot discuss this integral facet of the narrow Way and of disciplehood,from personal experience – but David Pawson CAN. David,a man who knows the Holy Scriptures OBJECTIVELY,and the Holy Spirit CONSCIOUSLY,is one of the finest Bible teachers on this first earth (in the eyes of Mike Bickle among others). Furthermore,Michael L Brown has in the past recommended two of David’s books,’Once Saved,Always Saved?’ and ‘When Jesus Returns’. David takes issue with the standard Pentecostal notion of ‘SUBSEQUENCE’ – indeed,it may be fair to describe this contention of his,as one of his major burdens. David does not make the mainstream Evangelical ASSUMPTION that a person received the Holy Spirit automatically and unconsciously,when they first believed – rather,he contends that a person has not received the Holy Spirit until they HAVE received the Holy Spirit ; in a manner consistent with the book of Acts,whereby the experience is not only consciously APPARENT to the person concerned,but even apparent to onlookers (Acts 8:18).

    I think it would be great if Michael would invite David on his radio show,in order to hammer this out,IN LOVE. In the meantime,anyone who thinks that BAPTISM in the Holy Spirit is a SEPARATE and SUBSEQUENT event to RECEIVING and being INDWELLED by the Holy Spirit,would have themselves a very challenging and profitable workout by reading David’s book on this subject (in paperback or ebook form) : ‘Jesus Baptises in One Holy Spirit’.

    In the ebook link,and by clicking through on ‘Beginning’ in Amazon’s LOOK INSIDE facility,you can read the foreword and prologue of the book for free.

    David was converted around 1947,aged 17,but it was not until 1964 that he understood what it was to RECEIVE and be BAPTISED in the Holy Spirit,in the Acts 2:4 manner.The prologue contains his testimony in this regard.

    David’s ebook :

    http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Baptises-Holy-Spirit-ebook/dp/B00514II68/ref=sr_1_13?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327314475&sr=1-13

    There is a tragic polarisation beneath the Evangelical umbrella (so to speak),in British and American congregations today : with regard to ‘formal/Cessationist’ and ‘charismatic/Pentecostal’ Evangelicals,in a formal setting we may find people sitting,in smart clothes,in front of a man known as ‘the minister’ ; in a ‘charismatic’ setting we may find people standing,in casual clothes,in front of a man or woman known as ‘the worship leader’. The problem with the former,is that yes,they do like listening to Holy Scripture being read,but what about the nine gifts of the Spirit for the building up of the Body – where are they ? The problem with the latter is that yes,they are familiar with gifts of the Holy Spirit,but what about effective,practical,objective,balanced,well-ordered,step-by-step teaching of Holy Scripture,for the training,correcting and equipping of the man [and woman] of God – where is that ? Both sides may be in denial of their unbalanced position ; both sides may (sincerely) believe/insist they are basing their practices on Holy Scripture ; both sides need to take a leaf from the other’s book. David has written a great book on this too,’Word and Spirit Together’ (available in ebook and paperback form).

    David’s book on this tragic situation :

    http://www.amazon.com/Word-and-Spirit-Together-ebook/dp/B0056OC9Z4/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327658037&sr=1-1

    Acts 18:24 to Acts 19:7. Because so much of what Evangelicals teach and practice today,stems NOT from a balanced,OBJECTIVE understanding of the Holy Scriptures of God,but from the writings of the Magisterial Reformers,Paul’s question to those at Ephesus in his day,still needs to be asked – in love – in ours. If a man wants to make it round a golf course,he needs various clubs in his bag to deal with different shots he may face ; if a man takes a job at a construction firm,his employer supplies him with a variety of essential tools for the house he has to build. Sincere but uninformed Cessationist congregations,are akin to a golfer with no clubs in his bag,or a construction worker with no hammer,saw and chisel (etc.) to build a house. Pentecostal congregations meanwhile,in addition to their overemphasis on ‘power for service’,have not learned the lessons of 1 Corinthians 12-14 with regard to the proper usage of the nine gifts of the Spirit for the building of the Bride – furthermore,and as already mentioned,the worldly lifestyle that some Pentecostals lead is a serious barrier to opening the ears of Cessationists to a more accurate and fuller understanding of the narrow Way. (I once heard a talk of David Pawson,where he mentions a time he took a Romanian Baptist elder to the service of a Charismatic Baptist congregation in England ; having seen the immodestly dressed female worship leader and the actual service,he said to David afterwards, ‘If that’s “Charismatic ” we don’t want it’.)

    As the 42 month warfare of the beast gets closer,it becomes ever more urgent to sort out such matters.

    Now please – using the Amazon facility,go and read David Pawson’s testimony.

    (Michael,PLEASE get David Pawson on your radio show,and hammer this out,in love.)

35. Your exchange with Schochet was interesting. It’s a pity he dismissed what you said about the New Testament as your interpretation. Even though he said the TANAKH he is stuck with, There are Rabbis that disagree with his interpretation so there really isn’t a consistent standard on his part.

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