Dr. Brown Interviews Israeli Leader David Rubin on Ron Paul’s Israel Policies

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Is Dr. Ron Paul a friend or foe of Israel?  Does he want to pull out the rug from Israel, or does he want to get America off of Israel’s back? Dr. Brown interviews David Rubin, former mayor of Shiloh Israel, on his unique perspective!

Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line:  I am not an expert on the policies of Ron Paul nor am I primarily a political expert. This much I know; when it comes to Biblical prophecy and justice, I am standing with Israel, and I’m praying for salvation to spread to Israel and Muslims.
Hour 2:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line:  2012 is certainly going to be a year of political division and great divisiveness throughout our nation. Let us, God’s people, rise above it, take hold of the purposes of God, and be determined to see Jesus glorified in us and our world!

Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: I am not an expert on the policies of Ron Paul nor am I primarily a political expert. This much I know; when it comes to Biblical prophecy and justice, I am standing with Israel and I’m praying for salvation to spread to Israel and Muslims.

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line:  2012 is certainly going to be a year of political division and great divisiveness throughout our nation. Let us, God’s people, rise above it, take hold of the purposes of God, and be determined to see Jesus glorified in us and our world!

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36 Comments
  1. Dr. Brown,
    We don’t have a counter-balance to the war party in American society. AIPAC has members of congress sign a pledge to Israel before a candidacy gets off the ground, and their views are hard line.
    Is there compulsion for a Hamas vote in Gaza? Hamas is the power monopoly along with the Israeli military. It’s not unreasonable to consider the idea that the Palestinians are compelled by force at some level to support Hamas.
    People like Rep. Bachmann and Sen. Santorum make such blustery comments about Iran which could lead one to believe they will be the one’s flying the plane to bomb Iran. Paul’s appeal is due to a counter-balance to the warfare/welfare state. He didnt condemn Israel when they bombed Iraq in 1983 which is important to note because he was one of the few who didnt.
    I’m earnest in my attempt to look at this issue holistically. War is a serious matter and I get the sinking feeling that many are too cavalier in their calls for war. As a Marine, I try to speak out concerning people beating the war drums on Iran because I have family and many friends in the Marines. ‎4% of DOD personnel take 80% of the casualties and receive 1% of the budget. That is too much of a burden upon the people in service. We need to support the people in the field but bring greater prudence to our military expendatures.
    PM Netanyahu said that Israel does not need our soldiers to fight for them. I can respect that Israel wants to defend herself. The past two Mossad chiefs have been tapping the brakes on the idea of open war with Iran. They’ve been able to take care of the threat they perceive through covert action. When Dr. Paul reiterates what the Mossad heads say, time and again, people attack him without looking into the basis of his reasoning because we’ve become a warfare state that squelches that kind of dissent with exclusion.
    Israel has the right to be free and independent of us and act in her own best interests. America has the same right too, and many viewing the situation from American perceive the Muslim nations as despotic for the way they keep their people ignorant and angry. We make the radical Imams job of sending dupes to die easy because of the interventionist foreign policy. We’ve exhibited the ability to do foolish things such as; overthrow the democratically elected govt of Iran in 1953, set up Saddam to dampen the blowback against the Iranian revolution, set up a Junta in Egypt where we’ve spent trillions propping up a tyrant for 30 years, and finally the British mandate that redrew the lines of the middle east to Balkanize the Muslim groups against one another in order to exact greater control to harvest their oil. The 1953 coup in Iran was done at the behest of the UK’s forerunner to BP. The Ayatollahs and the President of Iran are not in unison, they are vying for control over one another. Iran’s govt is not stable, thus the crackdowns. We will never have peace until we end the cycle of violence. We need to get back to using the golden rule in our foreign policy. If we don’t, we will never break the cycle of violence. I believe that we are called to be instruments of peace, and we’ve fallen short of our Christian ideal due to the rampant corporatism in the govt that perpetuates economic colonialism. If someone treated us in the manner that we treat the rest of the world, we would be furious as well.
    Peace.

  2. TO THE MODERATOR–

    The thread with Asher Intrater Interview stops after Chuck’s comment and the blobs that are usually to the right of the page, such as “Listen Here Live” and “Sign up for the E-Newsletter” are underneath.

    Commenting is not set up anymore.

    THOUGHT I’D LET YOU KNOW. 🙂

  3. As a believer in the Messiah,
    and a Ron Paul supporter, there is a FINE line. I will ALWAYS vote for Messiah, and see how people can be upset with Ron Paul’s position on Israel. I listen to David Rubin interview, and its good to get a different perspective, but disagree with conclusions. He quoted pg 317 from his book, and yes he does day that, however, if you read 318 from his book, he makes the following statement:

    “Even given all of this, my position on Israel is the same with regard to any other country. I favor a non-interventionist position, consistent with what the American Founders favored and what the Constitution enshrines”. “Liberty Redefined” pg 318

    Ron Paul’s position on foreign policy is the same for ALL nations; we do not intervene. If we take look at our past Presidents, all whom were “pro-Israel”, each of them pushed Israel into giving away land and expanding Palestinians borders. If we also look at the 1980’s, Ron Paul actually defended Israel when they were fighting against Iran. Ron Paul has said that we need to let Israel run their nation how THEY see fit, and not us telling them how they should run their country. Zionism is based on Independence and liberty, something Ron Paul wants to see in our country and Israel as well.

    My question to anyone who is against Ron Paul is this; how could you support any of the other candidates who have lied, stolen, cheated, yet because they are Pro Israel, people will vote for them because they are “pro-Israel”. Makes you wonder…..

  4. So Gen 18 and the other theophanies was understood by mainstream Judaism in a literal sense as opposed to “AgenType”? i.e., the angel of YHWH is said to carry His name therefore speaks as YHWH:

    See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way…Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him. Ex 23.20-25

    Now if the angel was supposed to be the pre-incarnate Son why doesn’t Stephen just come out and say it and instead confuses the issue [of that is the case]:

    After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai…This same Moses-whom they rejected by saying ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’-was the man whom God sent to be both their ruler and deliverer with the help of the angel who had appeared to him in the bush. Acts 7.30,35

    And if this whole thing was about “progressive revelation”, why couldn’t Jesus even point to it as he did with the other requirements of Torah. For example, we know a change is coming when Jesus says at the Mount…

    You have heard that it was said to the people long ago…But NOW I say to you …

  5. Chuck,

    If we look at the encounter that Moses had with this Angel, we should notice that something more is said about Him.

    It says the “Angel” appeared to him from the midst of the burning bush.

    This Angel says to Moses:

    “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

    And then God says to Moses:

    ” I have come down to deliver them.”

    What do you make of it then?

  6. Sheila

    I assume I can answer you since this is the topic of this thread so here it goes… 😛

    What do you make of it then?

    By definition, a theophany means an appearance of God. Hence people at times were unable to “see God” or thought they had literally seen God and somehow [miraculously] survived.

    Furthermore, have you ever taken note of how John’s revelation came to him?

    This is the revelation of [from] Jesus Christ. God gave it to Jesus to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He sent this revelation through his angel to his servant John. John testified about what he saw: the word of God and the testimony about Jesus Christ. Rev 1.1-2

    1. If Jesus is God Who or What “gave him the revelation”? And why if Jesus is God?

    2. Since you believe Jesus was an angel, how do you explain scripture saying ANOTHER angel was sent to deliver the revelation? And again, why if Jesus is both God and the angel?

    3. If Jesus was the preexistent “Word of God” made flesh”, who else was the Apostle referring to when he makes distinct both “the word of God” with the person of Jesus?

  7. Chuck—“why couldn’t Jesus even point to it as he did with the other requirements of Torah.”

    I’m sure He said just as many things as He did.–

    ESV – Jhn 21:25 – Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

    About Ron Paul–it was some time ago that I posted some things he had said and his position concerning Israel on VOR. I think he’s much closer to an anarchist than a republican.

  8. Sheila

    I’m sure He said just as many things as He did.–

    Don’t you think that clearing up how many God is was at least important enough to be mentioned? Anyway, I don’t think there are enough books to tell us about the Trinity. 😛

    How then would a Spirit walk, talk, eat and drink?

    If the evil angels could do it back in Gen 6, how much more the holy angels of God?

    Are you even taking into account here that God does not “beget” angels?

    For to which of the angels did God ever say such words as these: ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you?’ Heb 1.5

  9. Chuck,

    He cleared it up as far as I understand it. I’m sorry you don’t see it.

    I’m got many other committments that I need to attend to and can’t take on anymore indepth discussions right now. I think it’s been hashed and rehashed so many times that you and the trinis will just have to divorce each other and live in peace. 🙂 Or, that not being an option–separate and live in different houses!

  10. Chuck,

    Besides, I wasn’t referring to angels here–“How then would a Spirit walk, talk, eat and drink?”–I was referring to God, the Father. But that’s irrelevant as you don’t read Scripture at face value.

    Got to go.

  11. Sheila

    He cleared it up as far as I understand it. I’m sorry you don’t see it.

    Where is Jesus “clearing it up”? For example, shouldn’t we see him saying something like…

    You have heard it say, ‘Hear O Israel, the LORD our God is One LORD’…But NOW I tell you that the LORD He are three or They is One.

    :p

    I hope somebody else has the TIME to engage my points. 😉

  12. Chuck,

    My little terrier, Annie, (my HEART!!) has been diagnosed with advanced Congestive Heart Failure and I don’t need your sarcasm right now!

  13. Chuck,

    It’s alright. I apologize to you too. I’m really angry at the vet for ignoring the things I told him about and saying that it was this and that–and just now catching it when she never misses her regular visits!

    I shouldn’t have interjected it into this conversation–I’m just praying that the Lord who gives everything life will heal her. She is His and He gave her to me to care for when we adopted her. If you would pray for her PLEASE.

    Thanks.

    Sorry for diverting the forum here.

  14. Ron Paul wrote, in his book, “Liberty Defined, 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom,” that “Blockading the Palestinians in Gaza has proven to be a dangerous and inhumane policy…”

    While I’m sure that there are issues which Ron Paul and I would be in agreement over, I am left scratching my head over his calling the blockade “inhumane.” Perhaps a pro-Paul supporter can explain how it is at all fair to expect Israel to lift a protective blockade keeping at bay those who openly declare their opposition to her very existence?

    Please enlighten me…

  15. Ruth,
    I believe there are Palestinians who are not part of Hamas. There is a conflict going on between Hamas and Hezbollah against Israel, for certain. The blockade to hurt Hamas has consequences upon the Palestinian people who are caught between a rock and a hard place.
    I was struck by Dr. Browns guest when he said that they continuously vote for Hamas. What are the other options? Who else is as politically organized as Hamas in Gaza? Doesnt Hamas give the Palestinians medical care in Gaza?
    We only have two choices for our political process in America, it is almost impossible to work as a third party. Hamas couldnt game the system in Palestine to their advantage? The only difference between Fatah and Hamas is that one claims to be secular and the other religious. Damned if you do and damned if you dont in my opinion.
    It seems that the west is not forward-thinking enough to understand that some tactics drive normal Muslims into the arms of terrorists.

  16. If America stops aid to Israel and the rest of the world, here are a few things to consider.
    1. You can still give aid to Israel on your own. (My family likes the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews)
    2. Their neighbors will not be receiving money either. (More Christians and Jews in America than Muslims, so if you keep giving, Israel will receive more money from America)
    3. Dr. Paul has stated on record that he will do nothing to harm the military advantage Israel has in the region.
    4. PM Netanyahu addressed congress this year. Listen to what the man is saying. Read what the past two Mossad Chiefs have said about Iran. The PM said that Israel can defend herself, the Mossad chiefs warned against war with Iran.
    5. The money you give will go to the causes that you feel strongest toward. For instance, you can give money to bring tons of Russian Jews home instead of paying for tons of bombs.

  17. I got to hear David Rubin in Israel a couple of times this fall. Once at Shiloh on tour visiting the tabernacle site and once at a night to honor the volunteers in Tapuach. He might remember a song I wrote for the vineyard volunteers.

    “I’ve been waking up too early to ride in a jam packed van” to the tune of I’ve been working on the railroad.

    Well I wrote another song to the tune of the Beachboys “Barbara Ann” about when our rental van got stolen and totally destroyed (by stoning) by some Hamas terrorists on the first night of Sukkot. He might remember the incident. I think that he will like the song. Here it is if He is watching the posts:

    Park Not a Van

    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Park not a va-a-an
    Where Hamas ca-a-an
    Send in their cla-a-an
    To rock ’em and to roll ’em
    Break ‘em when they steal ‘em if they can.
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    I saw at a glance
    Was almost out of gas
    I parked a van, put the keys in my pants.
    Parked my va-a-an
    Where Hamas ca-a-an
    A rock ’em and a roll ’em
    And break ‘em when they steal ‘em if they can.
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Park not a va-a-an
    Where Hamas ca-a-an
    Send in their cla-a-an
    To rock ’em and to roll ’em
    Break ‘em when they steal ‘em if they can.
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Bridge

    You’ll get the blues
    End up in the news
    You’ll be ashamed and blushin red if you do…
    Park a va-a-an
    Where Hamas ca-a-an
    A rock ’em and a roll ’em
    And break ‘em when they steal ‘em if they can.
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Park not a va-a-an
    Where Hamas ca-a-an
    Send their cla-a-an
    To rock ’em and to roll ’em
    And break ‘em when they steal ‘em if they can.
    Pa Pa Pa, Park not a van

    Shalom

  18. DR. BROWN,

    Would you ever debate a hebrew roots movement leader. Some of my friends have forwarded me some material from Jim Staley, and I’d like your input on some of the things he teaches. Have you heard of him?

    Trezeguet

  19. First, concerning Sheila v. Chuck:
    ALHYM, YHWH, and ADNY can be seen in the OT as “Let US make man…” so what’s the controversy?

    Second, Blaine, you start the discussion with a very well-thought out introduction. My response is that Iran has ALREADY declared war on Israel, so what should our response be as her chief allies?

    Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world” to the existing Roman gov’t., but to Hias disciples He taught them to pray, “on earth as it is in heaven”; also He is Son of Man from the Davidic bloodline that conquered the Philistines. I intentionally leave this open-ended:

    In Jesus’ love and name, Ron David Metcalf

  20. I prefer to follow-up now and not continue the debate:
    Most of secular humanism and the majority of the U.S. Church is shaking in its boots at wannabe Goliath’s threats; but those who actually believe Revelation know the Zeal of Zion: “Who is this that defies the armies of the Living GOD?”
    “We will wipe you off the face of the earth.” The war scimitars have been rattled; only tiny Israel and the Messianic movement seem to remember the vows not to make Chamberlain’s mistake again.
    Peace is not surrender; Islam intends to destroy both Judaism and Christianity with satan’s full support. This is both a spiritual and physical battle.
    I will support Romney IF he publicly supports the rebuilding of the Third Temple, as several presidents have already expressed their desire to divide Jerusalem.
    In Him, Ron M.

  21. No less than a firm commitment to Israel, Blaine, would suffice, in my opinion. And even then, we don’t know how someone will act once they are President. Barak Obama seemed to have that firm stance while on the campaign trail, but once in office — his actions have been shockingly disappointing. I don’t see Ron Paul’s statements as anywhere near a firm commitment.

  22. RDM

    ALHYM, YHWH, and ADNY can be seen in the OT as “Let US make man…” so what’s the controversy?

    Who are ALHYM, YHWH, and ADNY? If this is somehow proving a triune God even modern Evangelicals do not use this verse to support it anymore.

  23. I’m disturbed at the disconnect between what the Israelis are saying and what the American newsmedia has portrayed the situation to be. What do Christians in America know that the PM of Israel and the Mossad do not know? Please give me proof that Netanyahu and the Mossad are wrong in their assessments.

  24. Chuck, modern evangelicals, and the present leaders of Israel, are not GOD. You brought up THE WORD, so I assumed you were talking about the Logos and Rhema of the Bible, in Christ Jesus.
    There are many who would rather see me tortured and die than hear me support Israel; but they see that as the end of it to disprove the Bible; and I strongly disagree by faith, now as in 2000 years ago. The prophecies of Revelation lead us back to the unfulfilled declarations of the OT concerning Zion; so my question is, do you believe the Bible, or modern politics?
    In Him, Ron M.

  25. RDM

    do you believe the Bible, or modern politics?

    What are you on about? First you bring up the “Let us…” text then this?

    To get back to my point, anyone care to respond to my post #8?

  26. If I am reading you correctly, you are asking at what point in His life Jesus knew that He Is GOD.
    The Jewish hierarchy, knowing Isaiah’s prophecies about the Messiah, could not bring themselves to accept IMMANUEL: GOD WITH US; they concluded that GOD is too holy for “common man”; that He only accepts “the elect”; now fast-forward to Calvinism and Mormonism. (GOD will use Mormons because most of the U.S. Church is steeped in replacement theology. The Third Temple will be built, even in corruption, for Messiah to return.)
    I do not accept that Jesus is an angel: a spiritual-being sent to fool the masses into a religious posture. I also do not accept that we can attain salvation by our own holiness. Jesus, as man(-God), received the Holy Spirit at His baptism, reuniting Himself with the Father at that exact moment, and setting an example for the rest of us; not that we become GOD, but have GOD within us. Jesus then begins to instruct His disciples with such statements as, “The Spirit is willing, but the flesh weak…” “To whom has the Arm of the LORD been revealed?” I pray you will receive that revelation.
    In Him, Ron M.

  27. Dr Brown

    Folks, this is NOT the thread to discuss God’s triunity or Yeshua’s deity. Thanks!

    Well, since you closed down the other one we were using with the Rabbi which one are we supposed to use now?

  28. Chuck,

    First, you have to realize that things were off topic here, correct?

    Second, just check on any threads devoted to Yeshua’s deity or God’s triunity (including when I had Sir Anthony on the air), and go for it.

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